Mol_PMB

In the monochrome pic, you can see the steam hose rigged up from the traction engine, across the road to the rail bitumen tank. Which, once melted, is being discharged into the road tanker below. It would make a wonderful cameo. There's another view in the NLI collection: Holdings: Engine, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath. :: Library Catalog Holdings: Tar tanker, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath. :: Library Catalog

Reminds me of this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454109653 RSL_MGWR_Mullingar_c1960s | [Photographer: Robert Shortall] … | Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256990908 Latterly a steam supply for melting the contents of tar/bitumen tankers at Mullingar.

Yes, I'm sure you remember Roger! Remarkably his relief at Crewe was another FR driver, but after your time I think. I'm not sure I ever rode on a Southern Region thumper, all my fond thumper memories are of the 80 class and I'm hoping to be surprised by one in August!

I can’t wait to get mine and start modifying them!

I’m not with my library but I recall that Hodgsons also had 5’3” gauge wagons which later joined the DWWR fleet as ballast trucks, or similar.

Several examples here: A little later, there were two painted BnT with advertising slogans along the edge of the roof.

I will try to deal with all of these in my post on the Park Royals. There were at least three different variations of the green livery applied to Park Royals, and two shades of green. Some/most of the main line Park Royals were brilliant green when new. I have in mind to do a visual timeline of the liveries to explain the evolution of the greens (and the silver interlude). There were as many as 10 different liveries between 1945 and 1961. Not all different shades of green, but when you consider underframe and roof colours, different lining/lettering styles etc, it seemed to change about every 2-3 years. The story is more complicated than just light or dark green.

A bit of an aside, I bumped into one of my friends on the way to work this morning and it turned out he was driving this at the weekend: It went all the way from the deep south to the Scottish highlands, and back. My friend drove Carlisle - Manchester - Crewe, and was surprised how well it performed over Shap summit. 4 power cars and 4 trailers though, so a better power to weight ratio than a 3-car 80. It made a change from his normal freight trains!

I think the dark green on 1944 is UTA dark green, which was darker than CIE dark green. I can fully appreciate the desire for a uniform livery at the DCDR, it looks smart and saves on the number of different pots of paint needed. So I've no complaint about it being painted that shade. It is possible that the first few PRs would genuinely have been dark green, if there was a long transition period between dark green and brilliant green in early 1954. It appears that the very first coach was delivered ready-assembled (and the other 49 were put together at Inchicore starting some months later) so maybe the first one was different. Personally, I think it's unlikely that more than one was dark, if any. But then I thought the silver-painted one was unlikely until JHB produced the photo. Because of the variations in light, exposure, film sensitivity and deterioration, it's very hard to judge the shade of green when all the carriages are in the same shade. The most useful photos are those which show more than one livery in the same train. It's important to note that there are differences in the liveries other than just the colour of the green - for example the colour of the roof, underframe or ends, the style of lining, the presence or absence of snails and class designations, and whether the running number is at one or both ends. All these can help to identify when a carriage was repainted and in which shade. When we look at photos from around 1956 showing two shades of green, we're looking at dark green vs brilliant green (I've added a 1956 photo of that to my earlier post - just scroll up a few). When we look at photos from around 1960 showing two shades of green, we're looking at brilliant green (slightly darkened in service) vs light green (newly applied). The photo on Chetwynd viaduct is a good example of that, but I have collated 20 or so other colour images showing the same contrast. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here, we need to finish off the brilliant green phase and then the silver/aluminium period before we get to the final light green scheme introduced in late 1958.

I would be very interested to see this evidence, and happy to change my views on the basis of new evidence provided. I have put a lot of work into collating and reviewing the green livery evidence and I accept that there are some unresolved issues.

I don’t think so. If it was, then there would be a dark green Park Royal in the rake, and the documentary evidence is firmly that they were delivered in brilliant green. There are also colour photos of new, brilliant green Park Royals next to dark green coaches and there is an obvious contrast. However, photographic evidence suggests that the late 1958 light green was a lighter colour than brilliant green. I’ll get onto this in the next post but I need some more time to collate all the images. Edit: here's one of the colour images that shows a pretty new brilliant green Park Royal next to a dark green vehicle, in this case a TPO. The 6-wheel van is also in brilliant green. The date is July 1956. This is a colour rail image, FIE05600, linked from their website. We often like to see train in uniform livery, but the reality of the 1950s was was a mix of different green liveries and from 1955 some silver/aluminium vehicles in the mix too. But I'd better not get too far ahead of myself. One thing I noted previously but I'll say again, is that these old paints changed their appearance over time, so a newly-painted vehicle may not be exactly the same colour as one that has been in traffic for a few years. Many effects could contribute to this - ingrained dirt, reaction to chemicals in the atmosphere or those used for carriage cleaning, weathering and fading, etc. Photos indicate that the dark green tended to get darker, duller and bluer with age. The brilliant green also seemed to darken a bit over time.

Almost certainly yes. Maybe carries the remains of a later repaint in orange. Good find! A few similar ones were made for other ferry and transport firms.

Yes, I agree, I think these colours look far too bright and yellow. It is useful in showing a difference in colour between the seconds and the buffet. I have some better colour photos of brilliant green on other coaches, but need more hours of research first, before I do the writing up. This image from Ernie is a better representation of brilliant green:

1954: Silver Underframes and Brilliant Green In the last post, I described the coaches built in 1953, of which the last few buffet cars were completed in the early months of 1954. These were the final CIE coaches to be built on traditional design underframes and bogies. For the next decade, CIE carriages would use ‘Commonwealth’ cast steel bogies, and Bulleid-designed ‘Triangulated’ underframes. From their introduction in 1954, the new bogies and underframes were painted silver, and this made a dramatic change to the vehicles’ appearance. However, the bodies of the first two batches were near-identical in construction to their predecessors. These coaches were intended for loco-hauled services and were not fitted for working with the AEC railcars. In date order, they comprised: 25 corridor composites 2137-2161, 10 completed by March 1954, the remainder by Autumn 1954 7 corridor seconds 1372-1378, completed by the end of 1954 Also built on the same type of underframe, but with an unconventional body, were the 50 Park Royals; construction of those started in 1954 but I will consider them in a separate post. IRRS Journal 14, Spring 1954, says: Coaches are now being painted in a much brighter shade (officially Brilliant Green), with a narrow light green band along the waist-line, to match the railcars. Five of the 11 buffet cars mentioned in the last journal are in service and work has started on 20 side-corridor compos. Though a prototype coach (assembled) has arrived at Inchicore, assembly of the Park Royal coaches has not begun yet. IRRS Journal 14, Autumn 1954, says: All coaches mentioned in the last Journal are now in service, 5 more side-corridors finished and another 7 started. All recent coaches are on Americal cast-steel bogies: underframes and bogies are finished in aluminium paint. The CIE annual report to the end of March 1954 notes that all the buffet cars had been completed by then, as well as 10 of the new compos. D. Kennedy’s article ‘Modern CIE Coaching Stock’ in the IRRS Journal 37 (June 1965, so 11 years after the event) also mentions Brilliant Green: The “Park Royals” as these coaches have become known, are Nos. 1379-1418; they were originally all painted “brilliant green” lined light green, and this became the standard livery for the following 6 years. Looking briefly ahead, D. Kennedy also noted that in 1957 the Bulleid ‘wedgehead’ railcars were delivered in Brilliant Green. ‘Brilliant Green’ is a colour defined in BS381C, number 221. It is a rich warm mid green colour. We know that CIE had been using BS381C as a reference for their earlier shades of green, and the wording of the IRRS journal (a much brighter shade, officially Brilliant Green) is consistent with that. The documentary evidence indicates that brilliant green was introduced in early 1954. Here’s a comparison between dark green and brilliant green from a BS381C colour chart, and from my own paint samples on white and black backgrounds: If we work on the basis that brilliant green was introduced in early 1954 as described in the contemporary IRRS journal, then it follows that it was applied to the new stock built in 1954 with silver triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies. Let’s have a look at some photos of these coaches when newly introduced to service. The IRRS archive includes several photos of 1954-built compo 2146 when almost new in May 1954. The silver underframe and bogies stand out when clean, and the body side is clearly a lighter shade than the adjacent plain dark green coach. The roof appears to be the same shade as the body side, and the ends look black. Other aspects of the livery are the same as the 1953 stock – EdN class digits on the first class door only, running number near the right-hand end of the side. A thin EdN waist line, and no snail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508672646 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508990164 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509198220 Here, the recent uploads to the IRRS Flickr archive are very useful as they include many steam-hauled expresses during this period. Here’s a nice shot of a Woolwich with a train including several green liveries. The first coach is a 1930s GSR corridor third in plain dark green, followed by a 1900s GSWR coach in the elaborately lined dark green. The third carriage is one of the new 1954-built composites; the silver-painted bogies and the light roof colour stand out. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235148304 Another shortish train, and another compo standing out: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235143539 In these lengthy trains of older stock, the silver underframe and light-coloured roof of the new compo are unmistakeable: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55234895526 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235044223 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235142774 In 1954 one of the new compos was marshalled in an MGWR express, and is seen in several photos sandwiched between an MGWR TPO, and a former Pullman diner that appears to have been repainted in matching brilliant green livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235049648 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235306150 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235148734 Colour photos of the early 1950s are very hard to find, but I have found one excellent photo from July 1956 which shows two of the corridor thirds built in late 1954. This is reproduced in ‘Keith Pirt Colour Portfolio’ p20. The colours on this image are open to various interpretations. It is lit by bright and contrasty sunlight, over-exposed in places and appears to have a yellow cast perhaps caused by slight deterioration of the slide. At first glance the two corridor thirds appear a very bright yellow-green, but I think this is a false impression and that they are actually brilliant green. The buffet car beyond them may be dark green, subject to the same colour and brightness issues. Alternatively, the carriages may be in experimental green shades, perhaps including apple green. I think this is less likely, because the documentary evidence says that the corridor thirds were built after brilliant green had been chosen as the standard colour. Whichever it is, the underframes and roofs have received a generous coating of grime and their original colours are concealed. The brilliant green livery with silver underframes and bogies was also applied to the Park Royals when new, as well as the West Clare diesel locos. Older rolling stock was also painted brilliant green, although those retained black bogies, underframes and roofs. I’ll look at some examples of these in the next posts, and should be able to provide a better selection of colour images showing how I think brilliant green looked. Finally, a couple of footnotes for completeness. Four of the 25 composites built in 1954 gave up their commonwealth bogies in the mid-1950s, receiving old GSR/CIE type bogies instead. This was a permanent swap for 2139/44/52/55, and the beneficiaries were state coach 351, AEC driving trailers 1906 and 1907, and ambulance coach AM12. Commonwealth bogies were normally silver at this time, while the older bogies were black, so there would nominally have been a colour mismatch between the bogies and underframe. In practice they were all soon dirt-coloured. In 1957, the driving trailers were repainted at Rocksavage and the underframes and bogies were painted silver - normal for the commonwealth bogies but very unusual for a traditional type underframe. There remains a puzzle in the wording of the 1954 IRRS Journal reference, in the phrase ‘to match the railcars’. Coaches are now being painted in a much brighter shade (officially Brilliant Green), with a narrow light green band along the waist-line, to match the railcars. The narrow light green band along the waist line would indeed match the railcars, but is this comment also suggesting that the railcars were brilliant green? I had earlier concluded that they were delivered in dark green, and they were still being delivered in early 1954. The railcars were overhauled more frequently than the carriages, but it would be a surprise if any were being repainted so soon. Also, the new stock delivered in early 1954 was not fitted to run with the railcars. My interpretation is that the comment relates only to the waist-line and not to the shade of green – but I accept that other interpretations are possible and would be delighted to see any more documentary evidence or colour images showing the carriage and railcar liveries around 1954. Next up, the Park Royals, again there will be a short pause while I collate information.

A brighter green: developments in 1953 From 1945 until the end of 1952, the carriage liveries applied by CIE were all dark green. We have seen that there were variations in lining and lettering: the early elaborate scheme of the 1940s, then the very plain dark green used from late 1950, also the AEC Railcar livery with a simple waist line. Someone must have decided that a change was needed. Bulleid may have had an influence – apparently the lighter Malachite Green used by the former Southern Railway was his favourite colour. But I haven’t found any official documentation of this change in livery or the reasons why it happened. The rate of carriage production at Inchicore in 1953/54 was higher than ever before, a fact recorded in the CIE annual reports of that time. It appears that several green liveries may have been used in this period, but documentary sources are scarce and vague, and colour photos very hard to find. In D. Kennedy’s article ‘Modern CIE Coaching Stock’ in the IRRS Journal 37 (June 1965, so 12 years after the event) the start of the brighter green era is described in the following paragraphs: [describing the Dundalk-built 1351-5 of 1952 that I covered in the previous post] The livery, still dark green, was much relieved by a narrow light green band along the waistline. These were the last coaches so painted, but despite a number of mid-green liveries which followed, the light green band was retained. [describing open thirds 1356-71 and brake thirds 1904-8 built in 1953] When new, they were painted apple green, but this livery was most unsuccessful; within a short time the numbers were hardly legible, and the coaches were almost impossible to clean. During 1953 and 1954 various other liveries, all shades of mid green, were tested on many vehicles, but all were unsuccessful. [the article goes on to describe the coaches built in those years, but there is no further reference to their livery] [then a detailed description of the Park Royals including] The “Park Royals” as these coaches have become known, are Nos. 1379-1418; they were originally all painted “brilliant green” lined light green, and this became the standard livery for the following 6 years. These references are useful but not very specific, especially considering the large number of carriages built in this period. No doubt other older vehicles were being repainted at the same time. I’m going to try and make sense of this for the new-build carriages first, and to consider this as a timeline based on information from the CIE annual reports, the contemporary IRRS Journals, and photographs. First I will consider the carriages built on conventional underframes and bogies during 1953. These were primarily intended for use with the railcars and on ‘Radio Train’ specials, rather than normal loco-hauled services. In date order, they comprised: 3 buffet cars, 2405-2407: completed in March 1953 16 open thirds, 1356-1371: 3 completed in March and the rest by Autumn 1953 5 brake open thirds, 1904-1908: completed by Autumn 1953 11 more buffet cars, 2408-2418: commencing in late 1953 and all in service by March 1954 We’ll look at a few photos showing these coaches in 1953/54 when they would have been carrying their original liveries, and when other rolling stock including the AEC railcars would have been dark green. This photo dated May 1953 shows a railcar set with buffet and open third intermediates. At this date they were all only a few months old and the buffet must be one of the first three built. There is no obvious difference in shade between the vehicles and I conclude that they were all dark green. One for the ‘800’ enthusiasts, here’s 802 in June 1953 and her train contains a brand-new buffet car (one of the first three built), two early 1950s composites in plain dark green, and a Pullman. These all look to be a similar colour. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235287610 A Woolwich on the Radio Train and the first coach behind the van is a 1953 buffet, which looks dark green: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508776166 This IRRS photo dated July 1953 shows one of the new open seconds (and beyond it diner 2400 or 2401). It’s inconclusive but the open second looks a bit lighter. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235482405 This photo dated 1954 appears in ‘Rails around Dublin’ (Murray) p53. We see a long 4+4 railcar train. In the leading set, the intermediates are a new buffet and open third. In the trailing set, they are tea car 838, and a Dundalk-built corridor third. Again, there is no obvious difference in shade between the vehicles and I conclude that they were all dark green. This photo dated 5th September 1954 appears in IRRS Journal 184 p66. Again we have a long railcar train but this time in 6+2 formation. The intermediates are two Dundalk-built corridor thirds, tea car 838, and a new buffet. Here there is a stark difference in shade between the buffet and the rest of the train – the buffet is a much lighter green. This photo from the early 1950s shows a 4-car set, with intermediates comprising tea car 74D and a new open third. The open third is clearly a much lighter shade than the railcars, and 74D might also be a lighter colour. We saw in the previous post that 74D was converted for use with the railcars a little later than the other tea cars, and may have strayed into the period when a lighter green was used. This IRRS photo dated 21st August 1954 shows a 4-car set with new buffet and open third. Both the intermediates look much paler than the railcar. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498866628 These IRRS photos from around 1954 give the same impression: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235122659 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/55235122674 This IRRS photo shows open third 1365 when brand new in June 1953. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507832507 In the absence of other references, I can’t be sure what shade of green this is. However, it helps to confirm the other aspects of this livery. The underframes, bogies and ends appear black, and the roofs appear to be relatively light: either green or grey, or a bit of both. There are no class designations on the doors, and the snail remains absent. This photo shows a couple of these coaches newly in service on 19th April 1953 on the Galway service, confirming some of the livery details: https://www.thetransportlibrary.co.uk/-/galleries/rail/lens-of-sutton-association/lens-of-sutton-association-irish-railways-part-2/-/medias/0b7558b9-80c0-4b1f-bda8-aab6428a6915-cie-375-ex-gsr-k1-2-6-0-at-galway-on-radio-train-19-4-53-jn-f This is a nice portrait of 2408, from the second batch of buffet cars built in late 1953, and seen here in May 1954. It is a distinctly lighter shade than the plain dark green coach on the left: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509040109 Photos of the brake thirds when new are hard to find, but this shot dated June 1954 shows one in a ‘Radio Train’ which is composed of 1953 stock. The first 3 carriages look to be in the lighter shade of green. From this information, I conclude that the carriages built in early 1953 (the first 3 buffet cars and some of the open thirds) were outshopped in dark green with waist line, the same as the Dundalk-built corridor thirds completed in late 1952. At some stage in mid-1953 the experiments with different shades of green began, with some open thirds, the brake thirds, and some of the second batch of buffets receiving a much lighter shade. This was probably what D.Kennedy described in 1965 as ‘Apple Green’ as applied to the open thirds and brake thirds: When new, they were painted apple green, but this livery was most unsuccessful; within a short time the numbers were hardly legible, and the coaches were almost impossible to clean. I have not been able to confirm what colour this was – apples exist in many colours. There is no paint named ‘Apple Green’ in BS381C, nor in its predecessors the CC and BCC colour standards. The LNER was the most famous railway user of apple green, but Doncaster and Darlington used two different shades of it. On CIE, the livery may have only been applied to about 20-30 carriages, and appears to have been short-lived in service. I am not sure whether this livery was applied to many older vehicles. I have not found any colour photos of the ‘Apple Green’. This raises a question – was ‘apple green’ just a different description of the ‘brilliant green’ that followed it? D Kennedy’s article stated that the “brilliant green” lined light green, … became the standard livery for the following 6 years. To me, these statements indicate that ‘most unsuccessful’ apple green was different from the brilliant green that ‘became the standard livery’. So the information presented in this post is not as clear-cut as I would like. There is some evidence of Apple Green’s brief existence in 1953/54 as a colour distinct from both Dark Green and Brilliant Green, but most of it derives from an article written in 1965, rather than 1953. Certainly some of the carriages described as carrying Apple Green appear as a lighter shade in monochrome photos from 1953/54.