Slightly OT: coreless motors and high-efficiency drivetrains

[Horsetan]

As a sort of sub-thread to my GNR(I) "S"-class project, and "Weshty" was after asking anyway, I thought it might be of interest if I posted up some of the motors and gearboxes that I prefer to use.

 

Wherever possible, I like to use coreless motors and reversible drivetrains. Best example of this is the Escap RG4 which came in three sizes:

 

1219 (the motor was provided by Faulhaber, not Portescap):

 

 

1616:

 

 

and 1624:

 

 

 

They were widely available from the late 1970s until about 2005, when difficulties in supplying the gears meant that these combinations disappeared from the market. They now command fairly high prices on eBay. Fortunately I bought most of mine when they were in production and accumulated about 20 of them.

 

The great thing about coreless motors is the very low current consumption needed to get them started, whilst the bevel-and-spur gears don't lock up when the power is "off".

 

 

 

You can hand-push a model and its wheels will keep on revolving; you can't do that with worm drives.

 

The motors themselves are still being made and are fairly easy to get hold of.

 

My question is: is there not a gear maker in Ireland who could reproduce the bevel-and-spur geartrains at a reasonable price, so that more people can use them?

[Weshty]

Excellent, can see it now. Good photos too!

[Warbonnet]

I cannot answer your question Horsetan but as someone who would like to go down the route of locomotive kitbuilding, are these motors DCC friendly and can they be wired up easily?

[Guest hidden-agenda]

I saw this Horse so might be of use might not. http://www.ultrascale.com/node/15

 

By the way i like the look of them jobs.

Edited September 10, 2012 by hidden-agenda

[Horsetan]

...are these motors DCC friendly and can they be wired up easily?

 

I understand that there are decoders and controllers that will cater for them. Coreless motors have two terminals, same as any iron-core motor.

 

I use DC so I have a Pentroller or PICtroller to supply power.

[Warbonnet]

I understand that there are decoders and controllers that will cater for them. Coreless motors have two terminals, same as any iron-core motor.

 

I use DC so I have a Pentroller or PICtroller to supply power.

 

Thanks Horsetan!

[Horsetan]

As a late addition, I think both Lenz and Zimo make suitable DCC decoders that will work with coreless motors.

[Weshty]

Based on this thread, I bought an Escap off ebay. You'd be lucky to pick one up for under £70 nowadays. Lovely job, I can see why they are of benefit.

[Horsetan]

Based on this thread, I bought an Escap off ebay. You'd be lucky to pick one up for under £70 nowadays. ....

 

I've picked up a few more - a lot less than £70. They needed relubricating, as the original grease had congealed, hence they were going cheap.

 

Weshty: any thoughts about replicating the gears?

[Weshty]

Weshty: any thoughts about replicating the gears?

 

Heh! I know this is a pet subject of yours, though I do find it quite fascinating myself.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/27474-gears-for-portescap-gearbox/

 

I have thought about it, but bevel gearing and all it entails is a brave new world to me. I also wonder if etching can delivery the goods.

And finally, there is the question of if there is sufficient customer demand to warrant the r&d?

[Horsetan]

.... is the question of if there is sufficient customer demand to warrant the r&d?

 

'Tis not just the Irish market, but also the existing British market to take in. The kind of eBay prices still commanded by RG4s - solidified lubricant or not - suggests that the market still exists.

[Weshty]

Hmm. Tempting.

[Horsetan]

Here's another thought: you don't have to make the bevel-and-spur geartrains only for coreless motors, but also offer it as an option for more traditional iron-core motors such as Mashimas, etc.

[purple]

IIRC coreless motors do not play nice with DCC.

[Joe Keegan]

IIRC coreless motors do not play nice with DCC.

 

Care to tell us more ?

 

Joe

[Weshty]

Interesting thread here on Coreless+DCC. In essence, there should be no issue 'tall, 'tall....

 

 

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3384

[purple]

Ah OK, I checked this out. It is fine as long as you let don't let the bipolar DC directly at the motor. In other works - don't run coreless motor without a decoder because the DCC signal can damage it by overheating the motor.

 

I knew there was some sort of issue with coreless and PWM or DCC.