Mayner

To me the big question is what would the LNWR have gained by absorbing the MGWR as a high proportion of cross-channel passenger and goods traffic from the Midland was already routed by the LNWR's North Wall-Holyhead sea route.

The LNWRs involvement in Irish railway companies were hardly the most successful, the DNGR struggled to make a profit and passenger sailings on the Greenore-Holyhead route ceased in 1926, the GNR taking over maintenance and operation of the DNGR in 1933 the British Transport Comission closing the line in 1951.

The LNWR became a major supporter of the DSER contributing a load of £100k to complete the New Ross-Waterford extension and paid a "virtual' annual subsidy of £20k to the DSER. The DSER plagued by tramway competition on its suburban services to Dunlaoire and Dalkey and coastal erosion the DSER paid a 1% dividend on its ordinary shares in the years before the Amalgamation.

Its likely that the Midland would have been in a strong position in any negotions with the LNWR, Sir Walter Nugent the Midland Chairman became the 1st GSR Chair and Midland Officers took charge of GSR financial management, with a strong focus on cost reduction including singling double track sections of ex-MGWR lines.

The other interesting one is the Baronially Guaranteed narrow and broad gauge line, where effectively the GSR was forced to swallow a 'poison pill" by absorbing the lines with the Free State continuing the guarantee ( guaranteed return on capital and making up of operating losses) for a period of 10 years. The GSR absorbing the lines would have been popular with ratepayers in the affected areas, immediately relieving them of the burden of supporting a railway that 'could not pay its way", but transferred the burden to an already struggling GSR after 10 years. The GSR lost no time in closing marginal branch lines after the 10 year guarantee period ended.

A better option might have been to continue the status quo with Baronial Guaranteed lines continuing under local management and allowing the local community (ratepayers) decide whether to close the line or continue paying the guarantee, a number of lines including the Dublin & Blessington (outside GSR), Tralee & Dingle and Schull and Skibereen were operated by a Management Committee appointed by the Local Council. In Northern Ireland local control of the Clogher Valley was particularly effective under the leadership of Henry Forbes (of CDR fame) train services were improved and operating costs introduced as a result of the introduction of a diesel railcar & 'The Unit".   The Stormont Government agreed to 'buy out' the shareholders and fund road improvements when the railway ceased to fulfill a useful function.

One of the more interesting aspects of the collision was that the farmer had apparrently adapted the practice of moving stock along the line between scheduled services and was caught unawares by the Knock Special.

The reports into the derailment of the Knock Special and the 93 Knockcrockery derailments on the Mayo Line are not available on the RAIU website but should be discoverable under freedom of information.

The whole business of Government(Ministerial) knowledge of CIEs concerns with the crashworthiness of older coaching stock is an interesting one and in this day and age would warrant Government Ministers, Senior Civil Servants and CIE Board members being held to account.

In Annual Reports and no doubt meetings with the Department of Transport the CIE Chairman raised serious concerns with the crashworthyness of existing stock and expressed frustration with the (FF) Governments failure to approve the construction of new stock.

At the time CIE was persuing a joint venture with LHB to build railway coaches for its own use and export at Inchacore, the Transport Minister who represented Longford-Westmeath refused to approve the project. The MK3 project assembling BREL kitsets at Inchacore was approved following the Cherryville Junction collision by a FG Minister of Transport who represented the Ballyfermot Constituency where CIE & the Works was an important employer. 

Things could have turned out significantly different during the past 40 years if the Government had approved the CIE-LHB joint venture with GM locos hauling Continental rather than British outline stock, would Irish modellers have turned to HO rather than OO?

48 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Many thanks John, it sounds like I need to get a copy of that journal. I have quite a few of the IRRS journals from the 1970s and 1980s but nothing quite that old. Do you know if there is an index so I can work out which edition I need?

 

Mol

One of the 1969 Journals as far as I recall, donated my collection of IRRS Journals to the Model Railway Society Of Ireland before I departed for NZ in 2004, perhaps MRSI or IRRS Libriarian may be able to help.

Another oddity during the late 60s/early 70s CIE shipped several trainloads of export sugar (for Nigeria) in 8'6" containers on 4w Flat Wagons from the Carlow Sugar Factory to Dublin Port as out of gauge loads. Presumably CIE would have checked clearances beforehand and imposed speed restrictions at overbridges & other structures where clearances were tight.

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Next up, the 27101 series of 20' container flats, which were an incremental development of the 2546 series.

 

This excellent photo from Brian Flannigan on Flickr shows 27109 in 1971 when it was still fairly new:

Also from Brian and dated 1971, here's 27190. Note that both of these are classified 'LA', and that these photos show the braked and unbraked sides. The brake arrangement appears to be the same as on the 25436 series:

 

 

There is a very good article on CIE freight modernisation programme appeared in an IRRS Journal (1969?) written by one of the engineers/managers in charge of the programme.

CIE designed and built a small number of hopper containers to carry grain (malt) traffic for a particular customer. CIE would have preferred to have used a conventional bulk container that could be discharged by tipping (from a truck), but had to go for a hopper with bottom discharge due to height restrictions at the customers premises. 

Traffic appears to have originated in Tralee as there are several photos of cuts of wagons with these containers in the North Kerry Yard, traffic appears to have been short lived and had ceased by the 1980s

9 hours ago, Garfield said:

The Essos were combined with the Sligo liner on occasion, especially during the 1990s. I can still hear the swearing from Sligo crews waiting on the platform waiting to take over from their Connolly counterparts when they spied a cut of tankers on the rear. It meant they were in for a longer shift...

Apparently in Midland days 'the authorities' became alarmed with very fast running(speeding?) of the 'Night Mail' from Sligo regularly arriving in Mullingar ahead of schedule. Reminders & notices to run to schedule appeared to have no effect, eventually departure from Sligo was delayed so that crews could not make it to Mullingar before pub closing time. Although running speed was unlikely to have exceeded 40-50mph with short wheelbase 4w non-passenger stock of the day (8'6" wb Horseboxes & Vans) running must have been pretty lively, particularly before the 1920s relay of the Sligo Road with 60' rails on baseplates that saw the line through until re-laid with CWR in the 1990s.

Going back to the Esso oil trains, I one saw a laden oil train stabled on a siding at Maynooth on a Saturday morning late 90s/early 2000s. Spoke briefly to a driver who had taken it from the North Wall, who did not know when the train was likely to depart for Sligo.

Reminded me of the American practice of a Yard Crew would make up a train and then move it to a location well clear of the yard to be picked up by a Road Crew who would arrive by Crewbus or Taxi.

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

Wasn't there also something about the brakes or suspension?

These IRM / Heljan models have the 1980's brakes or suspension whereas somebody else (Bachmann?) released one with the original 1960's fittings?

The springs/suspension of the Heljan model like the Airfix/Dapol kit appears to be based on the original late 1950s fittings, from the early 1960s onwards wagons appear to have been fitted/built with modified suspension with spring dampers. The ESSO tank wagons used in Ireland appear to have spring dampers.

Paul Bartell's pages of ESSO Vac Braked tank wagons includes photos of wagons with original 1959 and modified 1960s suspension and how the wagons weathered in service, he also has a page on ESSO tank cars converted to carry bitumen. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb

The Bachmann "ESSO" tank wagon is a model of a larger 1960s built airbraked tank wagon which effectively rendered the 1959 designed tank wagons obsolete, freeing up a batch of wagons for use in Ireland to replace older loose coupled ESSO tank wagons.

On 11/12/2024 at 4:28 PM, Darius43 said:

 

I found this somewhat distressed MTK Class 50 body on eBay and thought it deserved a second chance.  An offer was put in and accepted and here it is.

It is definitely in need of some tlc.  Its builder had soldered it together - unfortunately with a banana-shaped footprint.  Some serious surgery was needed to straighten it out.

This was done by making two cuts across the roof and the inside curve sidewall using a razor saw.  Once cut the body was carefully straightened out and the sides reprofiled using judicious finger and thumb pressing.  The soft white metal construction makes this quite easy.

The inside surfaces will be cleaned up using a Dremel and plasticard backing pieces glued behind the cuts to strengthen them before filling and sanding.

The plan is to mount the completed body on a re-wheeled Lima chassis.

Cheers

Darius

General layout, quality and fit of the castings is remarkably similar to the whitemetal CIE 001 kit supplied by Model Irish Railways (Portadown) during the 1990s. The 001 in supertrain livery as 018 powered with Athearn SD drive parts mounted on a  simple scracthbuilt brass frame/chassis was one of my pride and joys at the time. At the time some modellers were re-powering British outline 6 axle diesels (possibly Class 31 & 47 )with Atheran PA1 chassis. 

15 hours ago, Signal Post said:

Roughly what time period would wagons in this livery have been used from? I see in some of the earlier photos on this thread that these wagons seem to have carried ESSO plates mounted on lugs when they first arrived, then later on without the plates (but with the lugs still present on the tanks) and finally with the lugs removed as per this model, just wondering when did they lose the plates and lugs or was it a very gradual process over the long lifetime of the wagons?

Livery wise the IRM ESSO tank wagons appear correct from Mid-1980s onwards with max speed of 35mph, addition of Hazchem markings are reflector stripes on tank ends & tanks with modified bracing

There are two Seanus Lattimir photos dated Aug 86  of 1003 in this condition at Mullingar the tank retaining lugs for the Esso shield in the IRRS Flickr collection. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509330394/in/album-72157661623942928

Interestingly there is a July 72 Tom Wall photo of an ex-works (possibly Chas Roberts) photo of 994 at Inchacore in as introduced condition with ESSO shield & electrification warning on a grey tank body & top of underframe original tank mounts, black underframe (incl buffers) red solebars and yellow roller bearing caps.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511632134/in/album-72157661623942928

There is a Paddy O'Brien a Mar 74 photo of 998 and other tank wagons in this livery at Claremorris.

The ammended tank bracing appears to be a 1980s modification, there is a 1979 photo of the Oranmore-Claremorris oil train in JHB & Barry Carse 'Rails in the West" with the original tank bracing and withoutout reflective strips on the tank barrels.

Modifications including ammended tank bracking and ammendments to the tank barrel are likely to have been carried out on a phased bassis when wagons were undergoing scheduled heavy repairs in the Works. Some of the wagons may never have carried the ESSO logo or plate while in service in Ireland, there are several Paul Bartell photos of the wagons in service in the UK with lugs no logo or plate. ESSO tank barrels with lugs no plates were stored for several years during the 1970s in the "Railway Village" outside The Works.

Extremely frustration, I am in much the same situation I converted our garage into a railway room about 10 years ago and for one reason I have been unable to find time to build a layout, sometimes the unexpected happens and things do not go to plan!

Have you though of asking friends or the model railway community if anyone would be interested in helping out?

Sometimes private layouts are colloborative efforts where people help out with the build and operation, sometimes people travelling quite a distance to help out.

Several years ago I helped friends with baseboards and carry out tracklaying on their layouts one involving a 3 hr round trip.

Nearer home the owner of the Greystones layout exhibited in the 90s, built and exhibited the layout with the assistance of a group of friends and in Scotland Richard Chowns 7mm Waterford Limerick & Western Castle Rackrent layout was operated by a group of operators who regularly travelled to operating sessions on the layout before his death several years ago. 

Interesting a location where very little changed in almost 100 years followed by significant change in the last 20 or so years/

The layout basically remained un-changed from era the Dardanells Sidings (area on the right) were laid presumabably in the WW1 eara until the yard was re-modelled about 20 years ago. The one constant feature is the double slip on the crossover from the  main running lines to the Granary Sidings & Alexandra Road Tramway.

The running lines from Chruch Road Junction were once fully signalled controlled by the Granary and Sheriff Street signal cabins.

The Dardanell's sidings and the remains of the Point (Polling Fields) yard were lifted and re-modelled to handle the reaining Liner trains (mainly keg traffic). Railborne Container traffic to Dublin Port had earlier ceased following the closure of the recently (1996?) opened rail terminal at the end of the Alexandra Rd terminal and transfer of traffic to a terminal South of the Liffey

The Dardanells and the Polling Fields had been used mainly used to store stock awaiting repair in the adjacent wagon reapair shop or long term store/dump for out of service stock, some gems included the remaining ex-DSE coach & GSWR vans once in departmental service and a collection of redundant private owner tank wagons, stock that may not ahve turned a wheel in over 20 years,

ironically the proposed hard stranding for container transfers to the Port appears to be partially on the site of CIEs original Point Depot (Polling Fields) container depot opened during the late 60s

 We have been here before Devestation at the Holyhead Yard 2003

Irish Rail final days of container operation July 2005

12:00 Cork Liner on left, Ballina Liner on right! No other destinations serve

5 hours ago, Rapid130RS said:

@Mayner interesting and detailed post. 

Am curious: why 35mph? Would other wagons not have had issues at higher speeds? A 35mph limit seems drastic...how this would have affected schedules etc. 

 

The speed limit of the ESSO tank wagons appears to have been progressive reduced from 50 to 35mph in response to de-railments of empty ESSO tank wagons at Donamon & Moyvalley. 

Similar restrictions were imposed on other types of 4w wagon, I had a painting diagram of the 22'6" Flats used for Asahi Acrylonitrile traffic which indicates that the maximum speed was progressively reduced from 50 to 40 to 35mph. 

The effect on passenger train schedules would have been minimal as apart from the Cork Line trains speeds and frequency had not increased since the 1970s. On the Sligo and Mayo Lines the main issue was the easing of schedules due to an increasing number or speed restrictions as a result of deferred track maintenance from the late 70s onwards.

The down ESSO & Claremorris Liners tended tended to depart Dublin in the evening after the departure of evening Sligo & Heuston passenger services and return in the mornings in the quiet  period between morning arrivals from the provinces and early afternoon departures from Dublin.

Interestingly the Foynes-Ballina Asahi Oil & Coal trains (35mph 4w wagons) were scheduled to operate via the Nenagh branch  (when the Limerick-Claremorris line was out of service during the mid 1990s) rather than via Limerick Junction in order to avoid delaying up Cork line passenger trains scheduled to operate at up to 100mph. 

On 9/12/2024 at 10:19 PM, Tullygrainey said:

Thanks for this John. Useful too to see the photos. What did you use to spring the moving axles?

0.4n/s  

I tend to build OO Gauge 2-4-0s with a rigid chassis (making sure the leading axle is free running) and hopefully some day will get around to completing a 21mm gauge compensated version or two for myself.

Breakhrough!

A real and unexpected breakthrough today after nearly 6 months I relaid the track lifted almost 6 months ago and I can once again run trains on the garden railway.

Although I had replaced a decayed section of trackbase by late July, a section of the supporting structure required replacement and did not have time to carry out this work until December.

While the piles and beams that support the trackbase held up well, the end of one of the 4"X2" that supports the trackbase in the station/yard area was quite badly rotted and replaced with new treated timber (centre of picture) the cut ends were given an additional coat of clear preservative. I replaced the basebord fascia in this area (4"x1") decking timber to provide a uniform appearance in this area. 

Looking into the jungle, we had high rainfall and humid conditions this spring and with little time available the garden got away on me!

First Train since June!  346 with a train of Flat Cars and Caboose to pick up track material.

I haden't planned to work on the railway today the arthritis in my knees began playing up quite badly on Monday and I found it painful and difficult to walk yesterday, but thought some exercise might help and it did!

Picked up refurbished track panels had sat on the outdoor workbench since June, just for show as load toppled on 1st curve.

Material train at the "head of steel" (brass actually)

RGS Motor 6 waits at the other end of the gap before we drop in the last panel.

Track reinstated! The track panels overlapped by about 2" though I am fairly sure I used the original rails!

Problem quickly solved with a razor saw, could not find my junior hacksaw and blade nackered on full size hacksaw.

New Sunset Valley NG ties are shorter than original Accucraft (AMS) NG ties but likely to last longer. I have enough Sunset Valley ties in stock to replace the remaining AMS (American Model Systems) ties on the main line, but will probably have to replace the AMS ties on the "High Line" that are showing signs of UV damage 18 years use and Southern Hemisphere UV exposure.

Motor 6 carried out the first test/inspection run.

346 followed after marshalling the Caboose at the end of the train, it was after 8pm and the light beginning to fade.

More a setting of priorities a toss up between assembling a 60Class D14 etch I drew up last January and completing a pair of SSM J15s I started only God knows when.

I recently tidied up the workbench and began sorting out the parts for the two locos and just maybe make some progress before starting the D14 

Fair play Harry I have been planning to build a fleet of Midland engines since I was a teenager and it took me 40 years and several false starts to build a successful Ks/650 Class. I still have wheelsets stashed away for a Cattle Engine, Standard Goods, 650 & Achill Bogie.

Fitting B1 wheels under a D16/3 (Hornby ?) is a nice bit of latteral thinking as its becoming increasingly difficult to source loco driving wheels from traditional sources like Markits & AGW.

Having used a professional 3D modeller to design most of my 3D models, Killan's fee for designing the A Class appears reasonable. 

By the way 544 in the photo of the train arriving at Broadstone is one of the ligher/shorer C Class equally deserving of being modelled

I am heavily comitted to 21mm gauge and working in metal, but its looking increasingly unlikely at this stage that I will get around to building a 21mm layout and may have to compromise on OO to build a layout.

Well done for showing such initiative

On 10/12/2024 at 6:09 AM, DonderBlitzen said:

Over a year since my last post, a new job and living in a few new countries got in the way of hobbies. 

Been learning fusion 360 while away and now that I'm home for good resin printing. Still getting the hang of it, need to figure out what's causing these odd layer lines, thought it's possibly twisting but they are on both sides. Still, it's a rewarding if somewhat messy process.

I have the EGV body in the works as well. The odd shaped bogies are going to be annoying I think, I'm not sure how enjoyable drawing them will be.

Layer lines (on both sides) particular on models with smooth sides/surfaces seems to be a common problem with desktop printers.

It would be worth checking whether there is an on-line Support Group for your particular brand of printer.

I ran into similar problems with an Anycubic printer and found their Facebook Support Group helpful.

Problem appears related to the lubrication of the slides & screw that raises and lowers the build plate, but was unable to satisfactorily resolve the problem for model railway stock or buildings and use a print bureau for railway rolling stock. Printer appears to work fine for human, animal and fantasy figures with irregular surfaces.

On 10/12/2024 at 2:24 AM, leslie10646 said:

Now, having acted as an Agent provocateur, let me make another suggestion.

Perhaps Ireland should have looked at electric traction? There's a long and well reasoned article in IRRS Journal Volume 1 on railway electrification - it concluded that it wasn't on then (1947/8) as it would have wolfed up masses of capital and a high proportion of the electricity then generated. It DID touch on  battery power, which Dr Drumm had proved was workable and touched on partial electrification (like the "power islands" they're talking about today, to zap power into battery trains and which we will soon see - seventy years later).

Another what if?

There is a story of Bulleid explaining his concept of a fireless main-line  loco to a group of workers during an after dinner strole around the Tender Shop during his early days at Inchacore.  It appear the guys asked Bullied about his plans for a new loco and he drew up a sketch (concept drawing) of a fireless loco that would be 'topped up' at a series of charging stations around the network.  

I guess we will never know whether there is some truth to the story.

The ESB substantially increased it power generation capacity from Hydro and Peat from the late 40s onwards against a background of economic stagnation and a falling population.

The railways may have been seen as a means of absorbing some of the additional capacity in the same way as the GSR was enticed (manipulated) into building the Drumm Battery trains by the offer of 'cheap electricity' from the Shannon Scheme. 

Whatever about fireless locos topped up by lineside generating plants, development of the Drumm principal with partial electrification would have been feasible and fitted in with the social and economic aspirations of the 1st 'Inter-party' Government elected in 1948 (Declare a Republic, attempt to set up a 'Welfare State" (Mother and Child scheme) based on the UK model, and lay groundwork for the Republics economic transformation from the 60s onwards. 

A  change from a railway a railway that mainly exported cattle and people, to one that carried mineral and manufacturing outputs to the ports from the 60s to the 90s  to the contemporary railway that mainly transports commuters to their offices in the cities.

Faced with the reality of a stagnant economy, the railway worsening financial position, CIE had to modernise 'on the cheap" with diesel traction and cheaply built stock good for 20 or so years.

Still at the end of the day a modern variant of Drumm's Battery trains are likely to resume operation in Ireland over 90 years after the initial trials on the GSR. 

6 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

I suppose long-haul, flying makes more sense, but I feel like it would be better to try to replace long car journeys with European-style, high(ish) speed, high frequency rail, it would eliminate a large amount of traffic and CO2 emissions. Not that any government will ever manage to push that through without multiple important people being killed by conspiracy theorists who think passenger rail is fascism’s greatest tool and Ford, GM, etc.-hired hitmen.

Its difficult to envisage countries with a much lower population density than countries such as France, Germany or the Benelux Countries replacing air and long car journeys with European-style passenger rail services. 

Ireland has a low population density at 76 people per Sq/Km compared with France 120Sq/Km, Germany 243, England 297 and less urbanised at 60% compared with Western European countries at over 80%.  

More likely a citizens revolt over having to pay high taxes and rates to subsidies public transport, rather than conspiracy theories about Socialist Governments forcing us to use rail or motor industry Hit-men.

I very much doubt that the Irish public would be prepared to pay the high level of fares or taxes required to support a high speed/high frequency European passenger rail service.

The New Zealand Transport Minister recently advised Wellington and Auckland cities that they will have to substantially increase train and bus fares as farebox revenue in both cities in now below 25% of operating costs.

Farebox revenue in cities such as Vienna and Oslo contributed 50% revenue pre-Covid and in many countries commuter rail passenger numbers have not returned to pre-Covid levels as working patterns have changed considerably since the 1980s.

Strangely much of the current push for people to resume commuting and return to their office is driven by Financial Institutions with a major risk of ending up with 'stranded assets' as city center office blocks, business districts and transport assets become redundant if people no longer need to commute to the city to work.

Although there has been a lot of talk about 'remote work' and people working from home being a post Covid thing, I worked largely remotely for an Irish Government agency for two years before leaving for New Zealand in 2004. 

These days I pay almost twice as much in rates on our house as in income tax. A high proportion of our rates goes towards maintaining the local roads and subsidising local public transport services (which I don't use)

10 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Seems that the only tapered boilers that the GSR/CIE ever dealt with were those on the Woolwich Moguls. Everything else was strictly parallel.

Interestingly some of the large Coey era  GSWR 4-4-0s retained tapered boilers until rebuilt by the GSR with superheated boilers during the 1930s. Apparently tapered boilers were introduced during the 1900s to keep the axleloading of the 321 and 333 Class 4-4-0s within the Civil Engineers limits. Some of the 4-4-0s were rebuilt before the (1925) Amalgamation with new heavier frames, but retaining the original tapered boilers after axle loading was increased following the re-laying of the Main Line.

The 800 Class & Drumm Battery trains.

There was certainly an element of national pride in the 800 Class and Drumm Trains C&D also introduced 1939. C&D had a modern contemporary appearance not unlike the LMS Leyland articulated railcar set trialed on the Oxford-Cambridge line around the same time. C&D were let down by using refurbished batteries from the original Drumm trains A&B, the refurbished batteries becoming life expired after approx 5 years.

1 hour ago, Horsetan said:

That's not just any oul 400 class, but one of the two Caprotti valve gear ones - it looks like no.406 with the straight footplate. This one lasted until 1957 - the photo suggests it had been out of use for a while, as corrosion is clearly visible on the reversing rod and the upper slidebar.

The other Caprotti 400, no.401, kept going until 1961 and may have used spares cannibalised from 406.

According to A Decade of Steam RPSI 1972 and Locomotives of the GSR 401 reverted to Walscherts valve gear in 1949 possibly to provide parts to keep 406 running, but I haven't seen photos of 401 in2 clinder form with Walscherts gear. W McDonnell Running Foreman Cork wrote the section of the 4-6-0 in a Decade of Steam from an enginemans perspective and considered 402 the "best of the class" as the most powerful and reliable. In practical terms 402 and the two Caprotti valve gear engines 401 and 406 were practically new locomotives when rebuilt with new frames, cylinders, wheel centres and motion. 402 was basically an express passenger version of the 500 Class originally introduced as a mixed traffic loco.

The 800 Class may have been as much a prestigious project to demonstrate the Free States technical and engineering ability as well a its traffic needs in a similar manner to the Drumm Battery Trains. Apparrently the 800 Class were fitted with parrallel boilers with tapered cladding which would have contributed to the similarity in general appearance between the Rebuilt-Royal Scots LMS and GSR 800 Class

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

FFG are "improving" the country by removing rail access to Dublin Port. No time to lose; Navan Mines are back open, and it would never do to have to reinstate a withdrawn freight train.

Bye bye Taras.

Simon Martin and Leo Mehole whatever could teach William Craig, Todd Andrews and Beeching a thing or two.

A Jan 2024 Irish Times article paints quite a different picture with the Dublin Port Company downplaying increased rail usage in its expansion plans and the Transport Minister Michael Martin 'encouraging' the Port Company to make increased use of rail, including a instruction to model (carry out a feasibility study) of railing container traffic  between the IE North Wall Depot to an 'alternative site" (Inland Port) outside of the Port. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/01/17/dublin-port-downplays-increased-role-for-rail-freight-in-expansion-plans-despite-ryans-concerns/

The Port's argument appears to be that  rail traffic through the Port has been falling and that "de-carbonisation" may be achieved more quickly and effectively with 'low-emission" trucks through the Port Tunnel & Motorway network.

As far as I recall there was talk  of Dublin Port closing rail access to the Alexandra Road Terminal at some stage this year in order to improve road access to the terminal through a flyover (for trucks) over Alexandra Road.

8 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

A bit more accuracy and attention to detail might've helped too  The idea is sound but maybe the solution was a bit too complicated. Locating the front two axles in slots, allowing them to move up and down, might work just as well.

I locate the two front axles in slots in all my 2-4-0s and 4-4-0s, added weight at the front of the tender and found that it works fine.

I copied the idea of using slots from the TMD/SSM GNR S Class tender as a practical way of assembling/building a "Sharman Free Tender" and it seems to work quite well.  2-4-0s and 4-4-0s I have built successfully hauled 15 IRM Ballast wagons of 10 of my heavier less free-running 3D printed wagons

1 hour ago, MOGUL said:

Never seen a pic of one with that livery, only the Blue.. Was it different liveries for different fuel, or was the Blue a later livery does anyone know?

Two wagons were introduced in red & white for petrol and four in blue for fuel oil traffic between the Burmah Tivoli and Limerick terminals. The red and white Burmah scheme appears to have been a variation of the red stripe on a silver or light grey tank tank barrel for hazard Class A (highly flammable liquids) tank wagons.  

2 hours ago, seagoebox said:

From the CIE rail-freight wagon book, drawing no 13...

Nice to see a page from the CIE Railfreight diagram book, I got to have a look at it a couple of times in the 70s. 

It would be great if the Diagram Book was made available throught the IRRS or published as it included both diagrams and photos of wagons, containers and swapbodies in service at the time.

The Burmah tank wagons were used for Mollasses traffic in the 1990s along with tank wagons originally introduced for Oil from Foynes to the Limerick and Drogheda cement factories during the 60s. Although on a similar 20T vac braked chassis the "Irish Cement" tank wagons appeared more conventional in design on a purpose built chassis the tanks having conventional anchor mountings.

Mollasses Tank wagons stored Foynes c:2000. 26638 possibly built for Cork-Ballinacourty oil traffic similar design to Burmah Class B tanks. 26570-26589 series tank car introduced for Oil traffic to Cement Factories 1966.

CIE Diagram Charles Roberts 1959 built ESSO Tank Wagon 970-1013.  Interestingly diagram notes that 995-999 are not in this group.998 appears to have been a "Jumbo: Bitumen wagon, While the majority of ESSO tank wagons had the long barrel that extends over both ends of the underframe (headstock) I saw at least 1 wagon with the shorter tank barrel modelled in the Airfix and Dapol kits during a visit to East Wall yard but was more interested in the older tank wagons stored/dumped in the yard at the time and did not take photos or numbers!

I successfully used all ply (6mm) construction on my East Dock/ North Wharf shunting layout in 2021, all joints were glued with PVA and pinned with 20mm panel pins.

Diagonal bracing or trinagulated framing is un-necessary with a largely solid baseboard baseboard top, but short sections of stripwood 35X35 (White deal PAO (Planed all round) available from Chadwicks or other merchants can be used to reinforce the joints between the vertical framing members if you prefer a screw fixing.

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/10731-east-dock-an-irish-timesave-ish/

I would normally use thicker ply but had some nice 6mm ply over from a wall lining job, 9mm should be more than adequate for your baseboards.

One of the baseboards is recessed for a Quay/Dockside

The holes in the framing are for the wiring

The plybaseboards are sitting on baseboard framing set up for a 'permanent" layout about 10 years ago now mainly used as a workbench and for storage, as you grow older you find out that things seldom work out as planned.

Baseboard alignment dowels are from DCC concepts https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/track-and-track-making-parts/baseboard-alignment-dowels/

Track underlay is grey foam camping mat with strip of hardwood of the same thickness as a support where the track/rails cross baseboard joints.

11 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

So, would the new IRM / Heljan Esso chassis also suit Tar tanks?

Oil and Bitumen tanks appear to share the same chassis.

I suppose the question is whether its worth while replacing/increasing the diameter of the existing tank, or there is enough potential demand for a manufacturer/retailer  to commission a RTR version of an ESSO Bitumen Tank wagon.

Visually there is not a lot of difference between the two types. Grungy coat of black to may be the simplest Bitumen tank conversion option.

998 is the no of the one in the IRRS Cahir Abbey photo same tank mount original tank mounts as the Paul Bartell photo

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobitumenrebuilt

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb

Some wagons appear to have run in the UK without ESSO shields ands significant spillage so not just a CIE/IE thing.

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb

I think an I-Track network of Irish themed layouts would be an excellent way of promoting the hobby and perhaps more importantly allowing people who do not have a home layout to get together and run/operate/play trains.

Modular model railroading has been popular among American Outline modelers (worldwide) for many years HO & N modular layouts are a staple at American modelling meets, conventions I have attended in the UK, the States and New Zealand, but relatively un-common with a few exceptions among Irish and British outline modelling.

Castle Rackrent a modular Irish system.

Richard Chown pioneered 7mm broad gauge Irish Outline modelling during the 1970s with his Castlerackrent system, the system was modular in nature with up to 5 stations which could be set up in different configerations to suit different venues. Apart from the scratchbuilt broad gauge (mainly WLWR) locos & stock a notable feature was the authentic building and structure modelling and the modelling of bogland on a scenic section.

15" Group a 4mm modular GWR branch line system.

The 15" Group applied the modular modelling concept to the 'classic" Great Western branch line modelling a series (possibly 3) single track stations on a 15" wide baseboard, complete with a modular wiring system and some co-ordination in the use of scenic materials and colour pallet.

One-Trak  N (American outline) "One Track Minds" group New Zealand

Both the One-Trak & One Track Minds groups represented a shift from the established multi-track main line concept on a 4X2' baseboard pioneered by modular railroaders towards a single track main line with more realistic scenery.  The 4'X1' wide baseboard used on One Trak modules resulted in a slender module that appeared longer than a standard N-Track module, but wide enough for foreground and background scenery and multiple trackage if necessary.

One Track Minds modelled New Zealand Railways 3'6" gauge in S scale on 16.5 mm track on a 4X2 baseboard usually scenic modules which featured realistic NZ scenery (incl. unique tree and plant species) and structure and building style. Some of the modules featured classic New Zealand riverside/coastal scenery and bush complete with mudflats, flax (New Zealand), Cabbage trees and timber trestle railway bridges, and local building styles. 

Personally I would love to see Irish modules which feature the boglands of the Midlands, the railway in the Slaney valley above Wexford, the 'stone wall country of Galway/Roscommon, a Land Commission farmhouse/yard and an an Irish Tower House, the train become part of rather than center of the scene.

A question of standards.

The best option would be to use an existing standard that works, Jack Dunboynes FREMO modular layout should provide an inspiration for what could be achieved in an Irish outline modular context.

From my perspective the biggest challenge with modular layouts is overcoming the patchwork effect when modules built by several different builders are assembled into a single layout, particular variation in texture and colour of scenic effect, which would require a level of coordination of materials and colour pallet between builders.

The flip side is that the scenic effects become completely irrelevant to a group of modellers who have got together to enjoy running/operating or playing trains.

In one of his final Castle Rackrent articles Richard commented that they never got round to completing the buildings/scenic work on one station because the group were too busy running trains (complete with block bells and working signals)