Mayner

I lived beside Adelaide freight yard in the 70s and as container trains started to take over from loose coupled freight,brake vans could be seen on the odd container only trains heading back to Dundalk. Whether it was just for somewhere for the guard to sit or just a way of returning a brake van back to CIE I am not sure,but it did happen,although I have no pics

Guards vans on Adelaide-Dundalk goods trains rings a bell.

For some reason keg traffic from the Harp Larger brewery to Belfast was worked for several years in loose coupled trains after other freight services on the Dublin-Belfast line went over to liner operation.

Not sure if it was something to do with the loading arrangements at the brewery or an industrial relations issue.

How will the Government raise the Billion + € needed to build the DART underground? Higher taxes or congestion charges in the Greater Dublin region?

Traffic figures on similar schemes in Sydney & Brisbane have not lived up to expectations with the Government having to step in with a much higher level of subsidy than originally planned.

Accepting EU or World Bank funding could leave Ireland even more indebted and economic policy subject to the whims of the Trokia.

Thanks very much JB - I was wondering what that first coach was.

 

Some coaches had TLA, meaning train line with through air brakes fitted. It was on around 8 BR (including 3189 at Downpatrick) vans for stock transfers and TPOs (including 2978 at Downpatrick) for easy transfer on freight trains.

BR Vans & TPOs on Galway Night Liner/Mail were piped to run with 62'9" air braked container wagons.

And that's the vital link IMHO - NMRA. Without an NMRA stamp, main stream manufacturers won't take anything new on no matter how good it is functionally. Hence 'most' consumers won't buy non-standard gear.

 

QUOTE]

 

The NMRA is the main reason American modellers can mix and match different manufacturers locos, stock, track and control systems.

 

Like Hornby Dublo and Triang in the 50s a manufacturer may have a vested interest to ensure a customer only buys into their system.

 

This still goes on today with some of the high end manufacturers that have developed control systems that will not interface with DCC in order to maintain a captive market.

 

The MTH DCS system is a good example http://www.mthtrains.com/.

 

The large scale manufacturers also tend to design in-compatible knuckle coupler systems for much the same reason.

Cravens had 'TL' after their numbers - did that mean Twin Lavatory or something else?

TL suffix dating from the early 70s for conventional coaches fitted with Train Line lighting system powered by a generator in the guards van rather than battery and dynamo under each coach.

Suffix carried by BR & Dutch Vans, Brake Generator Steam Vans, Cravens, Park Royal, some Laminate & Buffet cars.

What happened in Melbourne and Victoria in a nutshell

In 1999 three concessions were awarded to private operators, two of 15 years for the urban area and one of 10 years for the country trains. One of the urban concessions was awarded to a French group trading as Connex, and the other two were awarded to National Express (UK), each on the basis of a range of management criteria and of minimum subsidy requirement.

The operators improved service quality, added some additional off-peak services, and introduced some new rolling stock. However soon they were bogged down in disputes including revenue allocation, and they failed to negotiate major productivity improvements with staff. Patronage growth, a healthy 3 percent per annum, was much less than the over-optimistic forecasts. Within two years the companies were in financial distress and at the end of 2002 National Express exited, taking a large financial write-off. A new (2004) contract, under which Connex has a concession over the whole system for 4-6 years, draws on the previous lessons and appears to be more successful. The country train concession also awarded to National Express was not successful and was handed back to the Government.

The main risk with privatising uneconomic road or rail passenger services is poorer service levels than under state control or threats to shut down operations unless the government increases the level of subsidy. This tends to happen when an operator puts in a low bid to take on the contract for a set level of state subsidy and revenue growth does not reach expectations or simply signed the contract intending to farm the subsidy by providing a minimal level of service.

To quote a World Bank Paper on Australian & New Zealand Railway Privatisation

ƒ Passenger rail concessioning is more complex than freight rail privatization because there are multiple aspects to address (for example, subsidy levels, performance, risk allocation, end-of period issues) and because governments typically remain closely interested in day to day operational effectiveness.

ƒ There should be more emphasis on the operational and financial robustness of bids and less on the best financial outcome :

RESULTS OF RAILWAY PRIVATIZATION IN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND 53

- Governments cannot contract out of its obligation to ensure continuation of urban rail passenger services. If a private operator fails, the government is politically or legally obliged to intervene. Having the operator on the hoop

If the operators get into ‘survival’ mode, or are distracted by continuing disputes, management effort and focus is taken away from improving service performance towards managing for survival – which often will mean managing the funder of last resort – i.e., government;

ƒ If the private sector is to deliver efficiencies, it must be given the capacity to effect reforms.

There was no real union or staff resistance to the ending of the elimination of goods brake vans on fully fitted trains, the loco cab was safer and a lot more comfortable than a standard CIE 20 & 30T van at 50mph. Fully fitted freights with brake vans were restricted to 35mph

A guards van was sometimes used on Foynes Byrytes trains so the guard could close level crossing gates without having to walk the length of the train when the crossing keepers had finished their shift.

CIE seem to have been quite cunning in their dealings with the unions in the 50s and 60s, eliminating the requirement for a fireman on diesel locos years before BR by placing the train heating boiler in the van.

A lot of IEs labour relation problems arose as a result of worker frustration with the large general unions after ASLEF withdrew from Ireland and the lack of long term Government commitment to retaining the railways.

IE was able to offer better terms and conditions and re-deploy 'redundant" staff to other roles after the EU Working Time Directive and a buyont economy freed IEs hand to negotiate with the unions

The BSSGVs were late 1970s rebuilds of Corridor Standard coaches into Brake Standard Steam Generator Vans to replace the last of the Tin Vans still in service

BSSGV from corridor side.

Compartment side

Close up boiler/generator/luggage compartment.

Boiler roof panel

Van from corridor side.

The BSGV overlays are priced at $53.00 NZ +$10 postage (approx. £22 Stg + £4.5 postage) The $NZ has taken a tumble in recent months which results in a real reduction in shipping costs to Irish and UK customers.

The sides for these coaches should be ready for shipping in approx. 3 weeks

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/railway-modernisation 1:39 Still in use in the 1960s the granddaddy of tracklaying machines "The Morris Tracklayer" was invented by the MGWR civil engineer in the 1920s and a relaying train built. The design was licensed to Morris Cranes in the UK and a relaying train built for the LNER.

After the Amalgamation the MGWR train was used mainly for track lifting on the Midland rather than relaying for the singling of the Main line during and lifting the Western Branches.

The machine was basically built to quickly catch up on the arrears of track maintenance after WW1 & the troubles rather than a cost saving exercise

Freightliner traffic to Ireland was originally shipped through Holyhead to Dublin and Belfast ports. The Dublin Freightliner terminal never had a rail connection despite being at the end of the Alexandra Road Tramway and talk about a connection.

IE operated two return Freightiner trains on the Belfast-Dublin line for a short time in the early 1990s when Freightliner closed Holyhead & cancelled the Dublin sailings and concentrated Irish traffic on the Liverpool-Belfast sailings.

The Belfast-Dublin Freightliner traffic was lost to rail when Freightliner traffic returned to Dublin Port.

Some photos of typical Freightliner formations on the North Wales Coast Line in the 80s http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/nine.htm

The privatisation of British Rail had little input from the EU, as I remember it - it was very much a home-grown policy.

The UK rail privatisation was more tied up with neo-Liberal theory that idea that the private sector would make a better job than public sector at anything from sweeping the streets to running hospitals and prisons.

Much the same thing happened in Australasia and South America with state owned railways either privatised completely or loss making passenger services opened up to competitive tender.

Personally I don't have an issue with the Department of Transport opening up passenger rail services up to competitive tender, in a similar manner to the LUAS and intercity and regional rail services in many countries. http://www.transdevna.com/Rail.aspx

Commuter, regional and Intercity rail services are likely to require some form of subsidy regardless of Irelands population density or size of regional centres.

Comparing Irish services levels with parts of the UK and Europe with similar population density would assist in establishing a benchmark. Rail services in parts of Scotland, Wales and East Anglia come to mind.

L

Europe always gets it own way. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

The Irish Government cannot have it both ways in accepting over £500m in EU Structural Funding to upgrade the railways as part of the deal for signing the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and then looking for a get out clause on implementing an EU Directive that potentially may open IE up to competition.

I suppose IE could do a DB and bid to operate rail services in other EU countries.

CIE management in the late 49s seem to have been heavily influenced by American practice with a powerful twin engine Sulzer design for the Cork line and a single cab Bo Bo design for freight.

The selection of a Sulzer engine and Metropolitan Vickers electrical equipment was a wise choice at the expense of a high axle load. With the right choice of bogie these locos could have been a real success.

It looks like the Sulzer Twins were intended to replace steam on the Cork line which would have been a propaganda coup for both CIE and the Government in challenging Ireland image as a backward place, after all this was the era of the big infrastructure schemes that eventually transformed the Republic from an agricultural to a manufacturing and service economy.

Going back to the multi engine Gen-Set idea for the 201s the biggest challenge and cost is likely to be the need for a complete frame up re-design of the electrics and control system.

The Gen Set idea is similar to the production Detics, where a complete power unit and generator is maintained by the manufacturer or their service agent rather than the railway.

Its hard to see the idea flying with the entire class of 201s, it might be a viable options for locos allocated to specific duties such as IWT, Coillte or Tara. A multi engine loco could be shut down to one engine for shunting or running an empty freight, though an electronic traction and engine management system with the present engine would probably achieve the same result.

Topic bump

 

There's an interesting little sentence or two in Tony Miles' article in Modern Railways this month that is relevant. "...installing a new multi-engine arrangement using two or even three engines is a viable project [in the Class 201 fleet].

 

Procurement is underway, with the plan being to carry out the repowering of the 34 locos (2 are owned by NIR) in two phases - 22 starting in 2016 and then the remaining 12 before 2020"

 

Catch those 12-710's before they are gone!

The thirsty two stroke EMD power units may be on the way out, Electromotive lost market share to GE & other builders in recent years.

Perhaps Caterpillar have developed re-powering kits for EMD locos since taking over Electromotive.

Reflected ripples in the Gulf stream suggest that vast quantities of a certain coach may have returned to to the Orient which would certainly explain why no more stock can be sourced by Marks Models so soon after release of an 'unloved' product. That 'being' the case…… well, I'll leave the chinese whispers to Dave

The Oriental version of "luck-penny" the Chinese manufacturers tend to quietly sorts out the problem at their own expense without admitting liability and throws in a substantial discount off the next order for luck.

The sides look really good John, how long till they hit the door mats? Mike

Most likely 3-4 weeks before shipping, once I have signed off on the BSSGV roof and revised the BSO duckets.

The etches for the SO & BSO sides and production order of MGWR Meat Van & Horse Box arrived last week, the sides and roof hatches for the BSSGV is expected during the next two weeks.

The kits and sides should be ready for shipping during the next two weeks.

I am looking at options to simplify the assembly of duckets or lookouts in the BSO as they are a tad fiddly.

1356-71Open Standard

1904-08 Brake Standard Open

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19591[/ATTACH]

I followed Comet Kits instructions for fitting brass sides to RTR coaches this tie and fixed the roof to the bodyshell with polystyrene cement before cutting out for the windows and the interior.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19595[/ATTACH]

Hi Alan

It looks like its a good example of believing half of what you see and very little of what you read.

I have a collection of GNR & MGWR wagon diagrams but no GSWR heaven forbid.

I imported the photos into CAD set the dimension between rail and buffer centre as 3'6" and let the CAD programme calculate the length over headstocks with interesting results.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19563[/ATTACH]

Its likely that wagon design varied a lot between the companies until common standards for wagon types and running gear was developed by the Irish Railway Clearing House in the early 1900s

Later GSWR cattle vans were 14' long and became the standard GSR cattle wagon up to the introduction of the longer KN which had vacuum brakes and run at up to 60mph.

"I have a picture somewhere of the stainless steel "de"monstrator", including interior; must try to find it (now there's a challenge).

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19558[/ATTACH]

 

and a tin van

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19559[/ATTACH]

 

From the Ron Pocklington Collection, now owned by the IRRS, who I'm sure will forgive me using them, as I donated the collection! Ron was the "real" designer of the Turf Burner.

 

 

Leslie

That Laminate really looks striking.

An untarnished A Class and a solid rake of Laminates would have looked clean streamlined and modern compared to the existing stock. CIEs brave but unsuccessful attempt at a 1950s streamliner http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=946.

Just might have worked had access to 2 pack paint technology.

Its possible that CIE may have been trying to copy the look of an American streamliner and break away from the traditional railway greens and lakes with the 'silver" finish.

Its likely the locos and coaches were finished with a clear laquer or varnish to seal the surface and provide some damage/scratch resistance, but was totally unsuitable for the harsh railway environment, both unpainted aluminium and stainless steel will eventually turn black given the right conditions

I use Tayima AS 12 Bare-metal Silver aerosol for the vans with a clear sealer, with suitable red decals by SSM.

I have tried various aluminium and silver finishes and found the AS 12 most suitable with good scratch resistance before sealing.

The Laminates & 4w vans seem to be the only coaches introduced in unpainted aluminium, the Park Royals seem to have been introduced in green with silver bogies.

The drop down doors on open wagons are designed so that they are clear of the railhead/inside the loading gauge to avoid a West Ealing style situation http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=135.

The beet opens were unloaded in the beet factory's by high pressure water jet, possibly moved with the doors down wonder if there is any archive of the unloading on youtube

Has IE ever transported milk? Not sure if they have the right stuff for that but anyway. As Noel said the main traffic was agri which would have decreased even though there can still have been traffic for it.

A traffic in raw milk from some of the producing counties to the processing plants might develop if some of the larger dairy companies like Kerry, Glanbia or Dairygold were to amalgamate and centralise processing at a small number of plants. All that's need is a siding at a collecting point, a siding at the processing plant, some flat wagons and suitable ISO containers http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/21401/milk-trains.

Butter, cheese and meat were important traffics for the railways the old companies had special ventilated wagons for butter and meat traffic, reefers and insulated containers were used when the remaining traffic was containerised in the 70s.

Up to the 1960s cattle traffic was pretty much from the breeding counties in the West as stores to be fattened in the East or on the hoof to the UK. Meat processing took off in the 50s with rail served (almost) plants such as Grand Canal Street, Roscrea and Leixlip ( Leixlip & Hazlehatch as railheads).

Roscrea had a cattle bank with a race leading directly into the meat plant and gantries for loading containers. Rathkeale and Dromad had gantries for loading containers from the local meat works.

Dave.

Great to see that the model of Carlow Signal Box still survives.

Built about 35 years ago for the first MRSI O gauge layout, there was also a model of Enniscorthy and Cahir station buildings

Its possible that some wagons had wooden and others steel floors.

The wagons dumped at Liffey Junction in the early 80s all seem to have had wooden floors, in somewhat poor condition after being used as spoil wagons for the DART.

There was a piece in Irish Railfans News of the floors of wagons in fertiliser traffic being painted in epoxy paint to resist corrosion, which would make sense with a steel floor.

In the early 60s there were rail linked fertiliser plants in Dublin (Gouldings), but also plants in Foynes and in Wicklow. NET seems to have supplied raw fertiliser in bulk to Gouldings and the Wicklow plant when the Shelton Ammonia plant first came on line.

Wagons in fertiliser traffic would have run sheeted as you did not want to risk a train load of ammonium nitrate getting wet.