Mayner

Someone said a wee while back that they saw a new sign in front of North Esk saying "Aras Lasta/Freight Depot". I would love it to be reconnected, far too many big container cranes disused these days. Limerick, Sligo, Dundalk and North Esk (for now) all spring to mind. Adelaide, Tralee, Longford and Mallow all had gantry cranes, all gone now (I think) There are probably others too. I know that North Wall did have at least two at one stage! One thing I've been wondering is, is there any chance that freight at sometime in the future could make a resurgence here up north?

The old railway owned container depot with its gantry crane is tending to be a thing of the past, much of todays freight generated by Logistics, Port and Shipping companies now handled in new purpose built depots in Industrial areas with good road and motorway connections like Daventry freight terminal in the UK.

This has started in Ireland with the IWT traffic and the new siding into Dublin Port, Logistics companies are more likely to consider rail for line haul work between distribution depots and the ports as Irish Rail are no longer in direct competition as a door to door delivery service.

Its hard to second guess what is going to happen, but businesses are begining to seriously invest in rail, currently freight in Hamilton is handled in a new depot jointly owned and operated by the railway and a major customer on the city ring road, and two major private railfreight terminals are planned and we do not have Irelands manufacturing expot base.

I'm tempted myself. It's an ANIMAL of a model, well over 12" long and a plethora of beautiful brass detailing.

Might have to get John Campbell to do a live steam conversion

I just might have to sell the N gauge collection and try a scale where I can actually see the models.

Probably one of the furthest travelled layouts I started these modules in Dublin about 15 years ago, they became the centre piece of a larger layout before a move to New Zealand and incorporation into another layout. The boards sat on a shelf for 5 years in our new home before dusting off for these photos. If I ever get round to it the buildings could end up in a new L shaped layout in the home office.

A freight from Washington arrives in town behind LV power as a pair of D&H U30Cs wait to take over for the run to Montreal.

Inspired by the D&H & EL operation in Binghampton I cherry picked various features only to find the original was not as visually interesting.

A pair of Atlas LV C628 "Snowbirds" Kato D&H SD45s & U30Cs in the background.

D&H power on the service tracks Atlas C628s & U23Bs ER Models (Bachmann) RF16s

Stages in evolution GE U25B keeps company with Baldwin Sharknose

Great news I might have to trade the smaller stuff in for the Tralee & Dingle Kerr Stuart

love it! one question comes to mind - as the jeeps were at opposite ends, how did the drivers synchronize the engines speed espically at starting off?[ATTACH=CONFIG]6912[/ATTACH]

More or less like towing a car mainly by feel !

The drivers may have used whistle signals before starting off, applying and releasing the brakes, but the driver on the trailing loco would mainly be dependant on the movement of the train and road knowledge when to put on steam or ease off.

I once drove small diesels in the UK, it is much the same with double heading the main thing is to avoid sudden starts or snatches otherwise you can break a coupler or tear the end out of a wagon.

Great video ianyone notice the NIR logo on the loco at the quarry? the most striking thing was the youth of the lads watering the loco at York Road, I wonder were they railway employees or a couple of lads helping out at the shed on a Saturday morning, things were a lot more easy going in those days!

Richie

I considered this ages ago, when I first rebadged Dapol wagons - especially as I have loads of BR containers about the place. The problem is, none of them will go INSIDE the Dapol (or indeed Bachmann, if memory serves) opens - the sides of the opens are not to scale and so are too thick!

It would need a handmade open with thin sides - maybe one day.

Leslie

The Irish wagons may have been a bit wider has anyone tried a BR Container inside an SSM open http://studio-scale-models.com/img/k26.jpg ?

I have several but no containers

Pretty serious weathering Richie you might need to send for the boys with a gas torch or plasma cutter for those wagons .

CIE used to keep service stock in reasonably good condition , UTA & NIR wagon stock was another matter.

Oh yes,the collision at Cherryville junction in 1983 was caused

by a A class loco running out of fuel.

I have to do a presentation on the Swiss Cheese Model of Accident Causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Cheese_model and I seriously considered using Cherryville Junction as an example.

There are so many variables the 071 on the Tralee-Dublin failing as a result of engine overspeed governor problems, the A class running out of fuel, lineside telephone failures, unreliable train radios, ambigious rules for stop and proceed operation, the use of 2 aspect home and distant signals rather than 3 or 4 aspect colour lights on the CTC section, (this would have given a red rather than a yellow caution aspect as the driver of the up Galway approached the Cherryville Junction up repeater signal), foggy conditions on the bog approaching Cherryville with a single oil lamp as a last line of defence for the up Tralee.

It was a bad day for Irish Railways earlier that morning the Sligo-Dublin Line was closed for engineering work at Moyvalley, the locos of the Up Sligo derailed at the Junction of the Sligo and Galway Lines at Mullingar, when the engineers posession was lifted the up Esso Oil train de-railed passing through the worksite.

Looking at the demographics and the need for suitable wagons for those big diesels, the 42'9" & 47'6" flats should be a good all round seller, though special wagons like Ammonia tankers, bulk and bagged cement may be a better seller due to their distinctive appearance and more coloufull liveries.

Multiple packs would be a good idea as Liner Trains run in blocks rather than made up of individual wagons.

Like Rich I would like stock that is easily re-gaugable to 21mm gauge, this could be achieved by using a 28mm rather than the standard 26mm OO gauge axle.

Vincent, I think the most likely punter is UBC/IBC /Interbulk group - them with the red 20' and 40' containers. They specialise in dry bulk grain and Portlaoise would make a perfect loading terminal (CIE have loads of land to spare in PL) from the midlands for grain and dry goods, loading onto the mainline to Cork for onward shipping to south america etc. A straight run in laymans terms. Would be great if it worked out, nice to dream...!

 

Have you got container/freight on the brain be any chance?

I would imagine the traffic is likely to be imported maize from South America for cattle feed like Avonmore in the 1990s Ireland hasn't really got the dry climate or wide open spaces for growing grain.

I would imagine the grain would be shipped in bulk carriers to Ireland with distribution by container.

Hardly the volume to justify Glanbia or Kerry Group building shuttle loaders that typically load 100 car trains.

Some great work John,like the engine shed and brake van.I know what you mean about starting projects and never seem to get them completed,that is my biggest problem with modelling,half finished projects.One question,in a few of the shots there is a low relief factory type building,is it scratch built or a kit?

Its based on the maltings at Grand Canal Street built from Wills Material Sheets part of a dockside layout I started but never finished, perhaps come day.

Yep there were four Tom. I have vague memories of the cabin in the photo. There also used to be some CIE box wagons stabled near to where the weigh bridge is now. It's amazing that there are still some families living in Sion Row, even though the tenement buildings are long gone.

 

Rich,

I explored the Wharf area as a teenager on a rover ticket from Dublin in 76 or 77 out via Limerick Junction, home via Rosslare Strand.

The cranes & grain loading bins were still in use for loading trucks, but rail traffic had ceased to the Wharf, the skeletons on a couple of outside framed GNR vans were parked by the buffer stops, presumably the locaals found a use for the oak planking from the bodies.

A long line of covered vans were later dumped on the siding behind the cabin, some still had labels or were chalked Empty Kegs Dundalk-Kilkenny presumably one of the last loose coupled goods working over the Waterford Line.

I toyed around with the idea of using scenes from Waterford as a basis for a model without actually modelling the station. The section around the Wharf Cabin between Sion Row and Redmond Bridge would be particulary good especially if the approach tracks to the Rosslare & New Ross line Platforms were modelled.

I was shocked to see that I had started a thread on unfinished projects 12 months ago, in soem cases there is been good progress and others nothing, but few items actually completed.

I had converted a Large Scale Bachmann centre cab diesel into a battery electric end cab similar to Southern Pacific No1 a couple of years ago. The main problem with the loco is visual towering over over Bachmann & LGB stock, the original was a standard gauge loco on narrow gauge trucks a problem not helped by the loco being built to a larger scale than the Big Haulier Range and most LGB stock.

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She has been out of service since Christmas since I used the batterys and electronic control gear to convert the LGB DRGW Davenport Switcher #50 to battery control.

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No1 is currently in Diesel No 1 to be trimmed down nearer to 1:22.5 with a narrower running board and cut down GE cab similar to the 1950s General Electrics supplied to US Gypsum that morphed into the U6-10 export designs http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20GE%20U4-B.HTML

I started work on a TMD MGWR tank about 12 months ago, I came across an unbuilt and seemingly complete kit along with 8-9 unbuilt and part built kits about 10 years ago. I was intending to complete this loco before giving 552 my first etched kit started nearly 30 years ago a long over due mechanical upgrade.

The kit is based on the loco in the original pre-1912 condition, before they were rebuilt by the Midland but kept their flush riveted smokeboxes and original cast Iron chimneys until late GSR/CIE days. I though of modelling the loco in GSR condition but desided to model the loco in GSR days.

The project stalled while I drew up a riveted smokebox and hunted down some missing parts plus a spare set of boiler fittings for a forthcoming project from Des. After hunting through my stock of funnels I the J15 funnel looks reasonably close, I just need to hunt down a suitable smoke box door as the beautiful Attock door supplied with the kit disappeared in the 1912 rebuild.

The etched smokebox came out pretty good and I could soon end up with a surplus of steam and diesel shunting and pilot locomotives.

Moving on to carriage and wagon, I have completed casting the next batch of narrow gauge wagons with plenty of seconds in the background. The mould has stood up pretty well but is getting to the end of its life showing signs of wear.

I have used planked Basswood in a number of wagons including this GNR Bread Contair wagon, the deck is finished with a acrylic stain. This was built from a Jeremy Suter kit, I still need to decide on whether to finish the whitemetal containers supplied or use the Pre-finished Provincial wagons variety or go for a CIE furniture container.

These NZR wagons have been lurking around for several years, lettering and kadees to complete. The low sided wagon is a composite whitemetal and polyester resin kit, the high sided whitemetal with a lost wax brass brake lever.

This KN has been lurking around even longer from my last attempt at resin casting in the 1990s, there are problems with the mould and it may be easier to start anew than try and re-work the pattern.

A few improvements on the S&E side at Keadue though its unlikely the C&L ever had an electrical side to its Signalling Department. The points are actuated through Blue Point hand operated point motors which also switch frog polarity and also do odd things like switching power control between controllers rather than section switches.

I have finally got around to hooking up the Blue Points to pull rods on the layout fascia $2.65 a throw rather than the $7.00 for the Blue Point boden cable and knob.

After years of complaint the Building Department has finally hung the engine shed doors, hopefully no one will drive into them. The doors are held in position with little brass pins or dowels drilled into the door and stonework. I need to line and whitewash the interior of the shed perhaps provide a tool bench and a light.

A real Flat World Society dilema The level crossing end of the station was very much an after though how to suggest the goods yard entrance and un modelled portion without falling off the edge of the World.

A single gate and ramp up to the loading bank and goods shed is modelled, the gate is glued to removable a section of rail that fits in a hole in the baseboard.

A new old brake van was needed for the coal train, the existing van is getting decrepit and the receently acquired ex T&D van and coach are kept on the main line and not allowed to stray into an odd corner of County Roscommon. The van is a Backwoods Miniatures kit very nice easy to assemble model but most vans lost the distinctive pannelling and ended up as rather plain boxes on wheels in CIE days. The paint was mixed locally and is nearer the later CIE light green that the darker shade used in the early 1950s.

Two staff members discussing Roscommon's chances of making it to the Connaght football finals or the pricee of a heifer at the Drumshanbo Fair

Interesting reading indeed! Am I right in thinking that the maximum loading gauge in the UK is 2700, and the max width of the Class 80 is 2879mm, which would make their chance of purchase in GB unlikely? or is weight and axel loads a factor? They might be going continental to other less loading gauge conscious parts of Europe?

I think the 80 Class body shells are the same width as a standard BR MK2 coach the extra width is over the bogies due to the wider track gauge.

Along with re-gauging the power car bogies would need to be replaced/rebuilt for use in the UK, the trailer and intermediat caar bogies could be swapped with standard BR B4s.

An 80 Class set would be a very useful train either for a commercial operator or heritage line I am not sure if axleload would be an issue in the UK getting type approval, re-gauging, full mechanical overhaul, interior re-fit, fitting central door locking and retention toilets would be expensive.

Is there a rumor that a set is going to Downpatrick?

There were several architects and their apprentices constantly trying to impress each other and corporate clients in Dublin with ever more spectacular victorian buildings. If you're looking for rugged, the GNR(I) is possibly not the best place to look. Some of the most impressive stations, even the tiny ones. Moira or Troooperslane for instance.

 

For rugged rural stations, you should look at some of the munster branches, cork, kerry, limerick, tipperary, waterford, and up along the east coast. Rugged beautiful buildings.To my mind the most Irish of all (understated that is) would have been Croom or Bruree in Limerick. The Midland buildings tend to have an "educated" quality to them, and even some of the small station heading West have quite elaborate waiting shelters and buildings, but don't generally go overboard on detailing.

 

Richie.

For the early companies there was quite an element of the railways trying to convince the gentry that their particular company was a safe investment, with particulary showy architecture in the 1840&50

The GSWR went if for particulary showy architcture and engaged a prominent English Architect Sancton Wood to design Kingsbridge, Inchacore and most of the gothic Stations on the lines to Thurles and Carlow.

The MGWRs went in for very solid plain terminals at Broadstone and Galway smaller main line stations like Athenry Killucan and Moate were designed like miniature Georgian villas.

In the late 1850-60 George Wilkinson who previously designed Workhouses designed stations for several railways including the Midland Sligo & Cavan lines, DWWR main line and GSWR Clara, Athlone and Nenagh. These forbidding buildings fitted in with the Midlands general attitude to the promoters of branch lines and 3rd Class passengers.

The MGWR insissted on a high standard of engineering and really solid buildings on its branch lines, while the GSWR was happy with steep grades and simple Corrugated Iron or Concrete Block buildings on lines like Valentia, or Tullow.

Most of the local companies were funded by the local gentry and merchant families. The Fermoy Lismore line was financed by the Duke of Devonshire and Fermoy had a suitably imposing station complete with overall roof. Woodlawn on the Midland seeems to have been built to serve the nearby big house than Kilconnel while a private station was provided on the Sligo Road for one of the Midland Direcctors.

Wilkinson Sligo road style station building and goods shed, similar buildings on the DSER and Nenagh.

Small Stancton Wood style station building Dublin-Carlow line.

Railway Signal Company cabin with brick base e.g. Mallow South or Gort same design cropped up all over the place.

MGWR style signal cabin on imitation stone base Maynooth, Mostrim etc.

WLWR small station building Horse and Jockey, Kiltimagh etc.

Generic small stone built goods shed.

Land Commission farm house and out buildings.

2 teacher school

creamery

Large stone mill building (North City Mills)

Industrial buildings with Belfast Truss roof.

Jhb, the LNWR locos were brought over by the DW&WR.

 

'Accoiding to Clements and McMahon six former Webb 2-4-2Ts were sold to the Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway in 1902. The price was £1550 per locomotive. Nos. 59-63 were returned to Britain in 1916-17. No. 64 was acquired by the GSR, but before that it had participated in the Civil War when it was armoured and named Faugh-a-ballagh.For a time it was used at the Mallow sugar beet factory and led a protracted existence as a boiler for washing outs at Inchicore. The locomotive had begun as a 2-4-0T in 1877 and was rebuilt as a 2-4-2T in 1896. '

 

Other LNWR stock was used on the Dundalk, Newry & Greenore, a wholly owned subsidiary in modern speak, of the LNWR. Some Wolverton built 6 wheelers were sold off the DN&GR and saw further service on the Cork & Bandon section in GSR days at least. I imagine the wagons were the same as the LNWR ones?

 

Also, the CB&SCR had a number of Beyer Peacock 0-6-0STs similar in design to those used on the LSWR. I think 1 or 2 of them made it into GSR times. Another oddball that made it into GSR stock and very early CIE days was former Allman's Distillery 0-4-0ST, a 'Beaufort' type Peckett a pretty much off the shelf product I think (apart from regauging)

 

Having said that, all the above are not RTR, I'd imagine you could get LNWR 6 wheelers in kit form.

The WLWR built a pair of 2-4-2T for the North Kerry that have a striking resemblence to the LNWR 5'6" tanks which may be available in kit form from GEM of London Road Models. The GSWR sold one of the locos to the Macroom railway both ended up in GSR service.

Modelling 64 or 427 from a GEM or London Road kit would involve a lot of work as she was rebuilt with a large boiler and DSER style cab similar to the Grand Canal Street locos.

Converting a British outline model to run on 21 or 36.5mm broad gauge track involves a lot of work and it may be simpler to scratch build than modify. Many 4mm kits and rtr models are designed for OO and it can be difficult enough to provide sufficient clearance for EM or S4 let alone Irish Broad gauge.

There is a photo of the branch train a largish 0-6-0 and a pair of 6 wheelers at the platform in the late 1930s in the Great Northern Irish Railway Pictorial by Tom Ferris. Interestingly the running line is in light flatbottom rail and the run round loop in inside chaired bullhead a GNR specialty.

The branch joined the "main line" at Shantonagh Junction about 2 miles outside Ballybay which had similar style of station building with one of Glenderg's glass canopies on the platform, its was a bit unusual for a junction having a single main line platform and a bay for branch trains.

The Irish North seems to had its own character with stone built stations that could pass for churches or meeting halls.

Both really look the part, the spring hangers and dampers transform the under frame, what chassis did you use?

Most of the stock would have been custom built to an Irish specification even by builders and finance companies like Metropolitan & Bristol carriage and wagon.

The solebars on 4 & 6 wheel stock would have been further apart and the headstocks and cross members would have been longer on account of the wider gauge, the GNR raan into problems re-gauge some ex LMS coaches during the 1940s

Charles Roberts and other manufacturers supplied wagons similar to Slaters cylindrical tank wagon, the underframe may need modification for the wider gauge. The LMS supplied some ex-Mildland vans to the NCC but they appear to have been the steel underframed variety different to the Slaters kit version.

I dont want to add to the confusion but would recommend Peco rather than either Tillig or Bemo track for anyone having a go at the 3' Gauge.

I have used a mixture of Bemo (Shinohara) & Tillig track on my narrow gauge layout. The Bemo track was made by Shinohara in Japan and may be an earlier to the current version with cast frogs, the main problem was the flexible track was fragile and expensive.

Hello Finbarr,

 

If you really still consider modelling the narrow gauge, please try to avoid bemo switches. I am into continental narrow gauge for some 25 years now and my experience tells me it is better not to use them. Bemo switches have cast frogs that are made mainly from zinc that is covered with a thin layer of nickel (is it called nickel in english? well...). The points are cast parts as well. The problem is: you cannot solder anything to these parts and if you have cleaned them several times the nickel plating will vanish and you will get feeding problems every new day due to fast oxidation and you will have to rub the frogs and points every day you want to drive or nearly. In late winter I was badly in need for a stretched switch for a H0e-layout of my girlfriend and, as the other swiches available were very short, I again took a bemo switch but rebuilt it with new frog made from rails an with new points made from Z-scale rails. The thing took me a whole sunday to finish. Speaking of OO12 or H0m gauge, I much recommend the peco system that can be obtained in Britain to fairly reasonable conditions (in Germany it is so expensive that it is worth ordering them in Britain, if one takes a few items; I don't know the prices in R.I.). The Tillig switches are not bad, but one has to say their radius is less then the one of the pecos wich makes the points look more tram like. Functionality of the Tillig swiches is o.k., but be aware they have spring points which means you have to have a point motor that is strong enough to switch the switch and also to hold it.

 

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask,

 

welcome to the site

 

Gerhard.

The Cork-Passage would be a good basis for a OO gauge commuter operation similar to the Cobh line either with the Bachmann railcars or Murphy Models 141s and Cravens.

Cyril Freezers Minories track plan is fairly simple and would be ideal for a terminus like Albert St or Passage http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-00-minories-track-plan-wanted/page-2 .

Brilliant kind of reminds me of Drumkeeran might even spur me on to finishing the village scene on my layout, every station needs a Railway Bar and builders yard/general merchant.

Finbarr

Good luck with your oddesy if you decide to go ahead with it with it it will keep you busy for many years.

Track Peco HOm (12mm gauge) is fine for Irish 3' http://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3322&CAT_ID=3326&numRecordPosition=1

Track and rtr TT & HOm Tilling and Bemo are German companies that produce 12mm gauge track rtr locos and stock. Bemo produce mainly German and Swiss narrow gauge very nice very expensive and probably a good long term investment.

Triang TT although discontinued about 50 years ago the locos and wagon chassis were often used under scratchbuilt bodies by Irish narrow gauge modellers and may appear from time to time on the second hand market. There is a TT society in the UK spare parts areb available and second hand prices have remained reasonable.

Worsley Works Scratchbuilders Parts.

Etched Locomotive Construction by Iain Rice is probably the best guide if you are thinking of having a go at using the Worsley works parts to build some of the locos and coaches. http://www.titfield.co.uk/WSM_LOCO.htm.

Building Coaches the Comet Way http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/PDF/Building%20Coaches%20the%20Comet%20Way2.pdf will give you an idea of whats involved in building the Worsley Works coaches. Worsley only supply a basic body without roof and bogie frames

Although I havent built one the chassis for the CBPR 2-4-2T appears to be designed like the real locomotives and may need modification to go round curves, I think builder in the New Irish Lines article modified the chassis to allow the axle under the bunker to pivot to get round curves.

Finbarr

Gareth filled you in with some information while I was writing the last post. Peco, Tillig and Bemo do suitable narrow gauge track, a Tillig or Bemo loco and a few coaches (expensive) would get something running while building CBPR locos and stock or you might even get hooked on Swiss or German Metre gauge.

The New Irish Lines archive contains some articles on buiding locos and stock from Worsley Works Parts, http://newirishlines.org/archive-2/, The Yahoo Irish 3' Gauge Group is a mine of information on modelling the Irish Narrow Gauge.

Foxrock Models on e of the contributors to the yahoo group does a very nice resin and brass kits for the CBPR goods brake an open wagon