Mayner

I never checked just take a tracing off the GA and reduce it to OO:D

Its seems to have varied between 9" & 11" depending on the type of vehicle, 9X4 timber and 9X3½ channel seems to have been common enough for wagons.

Wow!

 

Opens curious copyright concerns

 

Buy one wagon, copy and paste!

Much the same as the Media Industry internet file sharing controversy I suppose it only become a copyright issue when you start sharing the scans.

I have visions of a Kim Dotcom style dawn raids by the Gardai and FBI on IRM members homes for illegally uploading scans of CIE drawings and Hornby, Bachmann and Murphy Models locos and stock http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/kim-dotcom-raid-video-megaupload_n_1758317.html

The Midland 1F has a passing resemblance to a GSWR J11, apart from the cab and belpaire boiler.

Personally I think the Bachmann J72 if its still available would be a better option and cheaper than the 1F.

The 1F is a lot bigger but years ago someone modified a Triang Jinty into a J11 there are photos of the loco in a railway Modeller Article ffrom the early 70s on building a (West Cork style) corrugated iron goods shed.

Thanks for the advice, have been thinking of scraping that layout, gradients prob are trouble!! Thinking of running it in a 12x12 area, maybe on 2' wide board around outside, put a 4x4 town coming into the centre so I could walk around it all, what do ye think??

Hi

It depends on whether you are mainly interested in watching trains go by or operation 12X12 is a good space either for a double track main line around the walls with a terminus on a peninsula in the middle the so called E shaped design or the American idea of running the main line down the peninsula and looping back to maximise the length of the main line.

Adding another train the Blue Pullmans a very attractive train were probably ahead of their time they had a short life running alongside British Railways and 1st generation diesels. If your interested in watching trains go then a rake of Bachmann MK1s hauled either by an A4, prototype Deltic or one of the Heljan Type 4s would be an interesting comparison.

If you get interested in operation you could end up with anything that ran over the Midland Line between St Pancras Station London and Manchaster in the Mid 1960s.

Basically there is plenty of high quality reasonably priced rtr locos and stock out there, its a good time to get some interesting trains together and running while you are deciding on your main interests.

I would doubt it Stephen as he has enough on his plate with 071's/201's/and mk2's

The Stanier Moguls are not really suitable for an Irish Conversion as they are much nearer in general design to the Woolwich & GW43XX classes.

An operation in Camp/Castlegregory would be too far removed from a large centre of population for both visitors and volunteers and somehow I doubt Kerry Co Co would be very receptive to re-instatement of a roadside tramway, H & S being what it is.

I was thinking in terms of a new railway from Tralee towards Castlegregory on its own right of way if someone else was foolish enough to fund it rather than a restoration of the old tramway.

The current length appears to be too short to establish a viable operation, though to be fair the group appear to be under no illusions of the risks and pitfall involved in railway preservation.

While my suggestion about extending the line westwards was tongue in cheek, the idea of establishing a Narrow Gauge Museum in Tralee even if its based around 5T is sound and while money is tight there may be scope for the Council as owner to fund/build a museum under some form of community employment scheme.

First of all while you have challenges you have the advantage of an established railway with a locomotive and some rolling stock, the main drawbacks are that the original operation never developed beyond taking passengers from the Tralee Ring Road to Blennerville and the absence of a suitable building for a museum at Blennerville.

From experience you will find it difficult to cover the railways running costs without a gift shop and cafe, a museum or shed tour acts as a hook to keep visitors on site longer so they spend more in the shop and cafe.

On a short railway you will quickly find that the vast majority of visitors/passengers are likely to be made up of holiday makers and local families looking for a reasonably priced way of spending a few hours than railway enthuiasts and few will recognise the difference between a steam loco and a diesel.

If you are planning on volunteer operations, a supporters society, preferably with a UK element is essential to provide support and funding for restoration projects. Most Irish schemes that failed seem to have been dependent on FAS schemes and tax breaks for tourist enterprises.

I am not sure if the RPSI or other preservation societies have been able to register as charities in the Republic, but provided you can prove there is an educational element (perhaps publishing the odd book like the ITG), UK subscriptions and donations could be made tax deductible, but there is a lot of work involved in registering a Charity and HM Inspector of Taxes may take a dim view of the British taxpayer subsidising a railway in another country.

I am sceptical of the value of restoring 5T or another large loco for operation on the existing railway, it would probably be better to do a cosmetic restoration and use her as a museum centre piece, a partially or un restored T&D coach would make an interesting exhibit in its own right, the Corris did this with one of their original coaches and built a replica for regular operation.

Given the right support it might be worth while putting a proposal together for building a new railway to Castlegregory in connection with one of the Governments work for the dole schemes.

5T would be expensive to operate and maintain for such a short line, a small diesel would be better option for regular operation, with a small steam loco for the holiday period and busy weekends.

I was involved in the WHR in Portmadoc for several years and while we had locos like Russell and Gelert, most of the operating people and our accountant lusted after a Quarry Hunslet or small Barclay like Gretitude for regular operation. Overhauling Russell for main line operation is estimated to cost approx £200K without major boiler work raised by member subscriptions and appeals in the railway magazines.

One of the most important things we learned was that a nicely presented non-working loco was a valuable attraction and a rusting hulk an eyesore. Rather than being dismantled for boiler examination Karen has remained inside under cover since her boiler ticket ran out in 1993 and has remained the centre piece of our shed tour and later principal museum exhibit.

I think John's is a 22 ft wagon Pat.

 

Rich,

Yes its a 22' wagon at this stage I am finalising the drawings for the etcher and working on patterns for the castings, if there is sufficient interest (30 or more) I will do the 20' steel floored wagon these were used for containers and ended up under the beet doubles and bagged cement, so there is scope for scratchbuilt or resin bodies.

A wagon with a floor would be a lot simpler to build and have some space for weight compared with a skeletal.

If people want rtr wagons I think its a case of approaching Paddy Murphy, Seamus or Herbie to commission a model from China, in which case a 42'9" bogie flat or a cement wagon would be the best option.

Personally my biggest gripe is that there is little available suitable for conversion to 21mm gauge, IFM and Provincial wagons have been great in getting out an extensive range of wagons, there have been compromises with chassis, but thats mainly been about producing a realistically priced OO model.

Herbert Richards of the IRRS produced a 7mm drawing of these wagons, there is a copy available in the archive section of New Irish Lines http://newirishlines.org/archive-2/

Congratulations Stephen, she will keep you busy for a few years remember the bigger she gets the more she will demand of your time and wallet

I wonder is an "Achill Bogie" D16 4.4.0 too much to ask! (I'd buy a model of all six, guaranteed!). Very limited range of operation though, fair enough....

I had intended to do the 2-4-0 & an L Class standard goods first, but will certainly look at doing the Achill Bogie an offer to buy 6 engines would be a good kick start to producing a kit .

I love the idea of a PW gang that does not seem to get their hands or clothes dirty:)

Those little Ruston & Hornsby diesels were unique to the Western Region and classed as track machines.

The MGWR set up a mechanical track re-laying system at the end of WW1 a depot in Mullingar (later scrapyard) with overhead gantry for assembling and dismantling track panels and single line track re-laying train with a conveyor system to transport track panels to and from the head of steel and a cantilever gantry to lift out the old sections and place the new.

The machine seems to havee been reasonably successful the Midland engineer sold the right to the system to Morris Cranes who built a similar machine for the LNER in 1929

The LNER machine seems to have lasted into the 1960s http://www.leedsmrs.org/jpegs/Gallery/AlanSmith/P/Ponteland%20plant%20exhib%20Morris%20Tracklayer%201961.jpg

The GSR seem to have mainly used the machine mainly for track lifting on the Midland, the crane was dismantled and the Mullingar depot converted into a scrap yard

Short of putting up €50-100k and trying to corner the market by commissioning a run of wagons from China it would be difficult to do a rtr Irish wagon in the €10-12 price range. The Dapol Prestwin or the long wheelbase Dapol coal/tank wagon chassis is probably the best option for OO.

The early steel floored flats used for B&I & Bell Container Traffic that ended up under the bagged cement and beet doubles would probably be the simplest to produce probably combining brass and whitemetal.

I have done some work on a brass version of the 22' wagon suitable for 21mm gauge, this wagon is duplicated with the Irish Freight Models flat, but the model is aimed mainly at 21mm and S4 modellers.

The main problem with skeletal 4 wheelers is the risk of de-railing due to the lack of weight. I looked at forming the skeletal framing in whitemetal to speed assembly and add weight, but ruins the look of the model.

I have sinced revised the drawings to incorporate a Bill Bedford style Universal Suspension System and I am planning to do a build basically to see if the idea will work with a light weight wagon.

The

Definitely lifting architectural and structural modelling to a whole new level, the sheer scale of the structures is breathtaking.

I hope you find space to build a layout or at least a diorama of Cork Loco.

What's next the houses , shops & pubs on the lower Glanmire Road with Summerhill as a background?

I found this https://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/tag/midland-great-western-railway/

Unlike the GSWR the Midland tended to replace or renew its locos and stock every 25 years, in the 19th Century Attock tended to replace like with like building successive generations of similar 2-4-0s up to the K Classs in 1895.

The Ks seem to have been mixed traffic or what the Scotts called Intermediate locos with slightly smaller wheels than the "Mails' engines, these latter were "renewed" as the C Class 4-4-0s for the Sligo line in the 1910s.

The Cs endded up with the reputation of the roughest running locos in Ireland with high slung superheated boilers and weak suspension

The Ks were re-boilered in the 1920s loosing the "Flyaway" cab and besides Dublin suburban and branches seem to have worked the Sligo and Mayo Mails into the 1950s.

John I think in fairness the guy getting the stuff printed was encouraged by guys ( including me) to get stuff made and it was only when you got down to preparing the model you realised what you got. The wagon bodies were acceptable to a degree ( copies are still available) but as far as loco and coach bodies are concerned it was an uphill battle so much so i kept your E class etch for when i scratch build a body so unless the 3D printing companies have an alternative that,s not overly expensive its safe to assume etched brass and or resin is the way forward..

Gareth

I think a lot of people who work in 3D modelling like Jack saw the potential of 3D printing for producing models without realising the limitations I think he did a very good job in designing the models but was ahead of the technology and material that was available at the time.

The other downside is there is a set up cost for each individual item and the material is charged by the Cube so the proceess is very expensive for OO but reasonably competetive even with the Detail materials for an N gauge model. So a Valve Design A Class or BoBo in Frosted Ultra Detail would be a reasonable proposition in N gauge or possiby TT.

Personally I think the main benefit with 3D printing will be in producing masters for resin casting.

We originally looked at uproducing a resin body shell from a 3D printed master with brass overlays as a simple way to produce coach kits, but resin shrinks warps and twists while brass or nickle silver is relatively stable and the cost of producing the model would have been prohibitive.

I have used this for forming the fuel tanks and axleeboxes for the Tin Van and the castings have been to a reasonable quality.

Most of the other 3D printed parts have been replaced either with brass or whitemetal, the main area that still has to be resolved is forming the roof

I am looking at the possibility of doing the Midland K Class later GSR/CIE 650 Class 2-4-0 once I have sorted out the production of the tin vans. This should be a lot quicker to produce as most of the castings are available through SSM

These little engines lasted in service until the end of steam, even working on suburban trains to Bray and Greystones

Superheated K Class with rounded cab.

While intended for 21mm I am looking at a simple fold up chassis for OO and may be able to offer the option of a running chassis.

The main issue with these engines is the sheer number of variations, originally built in typical Attock style with "fly-away" cab, many were re-built in the 1920s like the loco in the drawing with superheating and rounded GNR style cabs.

The rounded cabs were too low and soon replaced with very plain Inchacore style cabs, later many engines received superheated belpair boilers which gave the engines an over stuffed look.

The drawing is based on an MGWR diagram from the 1920s and surprising similar in general outline to rebuilt locos in GSR days.

When I get time I will draw up some of the variations to give some idea of the general outline.

Fancy commissioning Bachmann to do a RTR version? It will always be the dream!

fran, shapeways did a laser printed an A class body in N gauge - wonder what the quality was like? got a few of the E class shunters and they were pure s***e!

The main draw back with a 3D printed model is that you would need to do quite a bit of sanding to achieve a smooth finish even with finer materials such as Shapeways Frosted Detail.

There is a similar Balloon Loop arrangement at Woodvile Junction that allows freight trains arriving at the Eastern end of the station to reverse direction

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-40.345733,175.86846&z=16&t=h&hl=en

The Flexiscale funding model appears to be remarkably similar to the FR funding model for the WHR and a lot of its capital programmes.

Pledge £1000 and receive a free fully working certified model of Princess. The FR raised about £5m in private sponsorship with gold and silver passes rather than the traditional buy a sleeper appeal.

The Festiniog and Welsh slate lines have a huge following both with enthuiasts and modellers so it might fly.

Going by my own experience with rapid prototyping I would agree with Richie and Rich either a simple brass kit or a resin body on a Bachmann 3F chassis would probably be the best bet for a rtr model of 461.

It would probably be best to model the loco in its current condition at some stage she received a GSR boiler while 462 worked with her original and larger DSER boiler to the end.

It's just the carriage to accommodate an IRRS party over the Burma Rd, 15th June 1968, as was done on several occasions by sticking a carriage onto a regular goods!

That would have been a great day out! It seems to have been common enough way of visiting goods only branches like Tullow and Banagher usually behind steam in the 50s.

You might be able to get a copy of an IE working timetable or Weekly Notices for the era either through the IRRS or some of the preservation societies.

The WTT includes all the regular working, as required paths and rostered power, the Weekly Notices probably harder to find cover ballast and special workings.

There were usually 3 Bagged Fertiliser paths to Shelton morning, mid afternoon and late evening. Specials did run the Hotels on Bray seafront were great for nocturnal gricing and anything other than sleep;)

The Wexford Line was the first to go over to Liner Train operation after Sligo with 10 & 20' containers for Sundries Traffic, loadings were poor so the wagons about 6 usually attached to a fertliser train between North Wall and Shelton.

I dont think the re-lay and mini-CTC happened until quite late, bullhead track and lattice post signals is one of the things that made the South Eastern so distinctive.

The Bowser C630 was originally produced about 10 years ago by Stewart Hobbies. I went through a Western Maryland phase in HO mainly using their locos and stock in HO which I found above average for the time in general standard of detail and quality.

Apart from the big Alcos the produced a range of Kato powered F Units, some interesting Baldwin road switchers and switchers and very nice coal hoppers.

As I couldn't link this picture by URL to the site. I screen capped it. I hope the owner doesn't mind.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5945[/ATTACH]

The rake next to the long line of BELL containers are what I am talking about.

That a great photo shows the scale of container traffic once carried by the railway.

The 62'9" wagons seem to have been mainly used on Dublin-Cork, Limerick and Galway Liner trains. The Galway Liner was a Liner Mail with the wagons marshalled behind the passenger rated stock, usually a BR Heating Van, TPO and parcel vans which were piped to run with air braked stock.

These wagons become surplus to requirements as container wagons in the early-mid 90s after a round of "rationalisation" that resulted in the ending of Mails and Sundries Traffic and the concentration of container traffic on a small number of depots.

So probably Supertrain or early IE points logo 071 or pairs of Bo Bos than 201 and electrical plug era haulage.

Glad to be of service!

 

They have republished the list today and there are now only four double-ended yankies in the list, so you're not the only one to have been taking advantage!

 

Mind you, there are some strange items to be deemed "obsolete" there - like the Heljan railbus, which I thought was only out last year.

 

No matter, as long as more Irish locos end up in Irish hands!

 

Leslie

I think discontinued might bee a better term, all the same its good to see lads picking up some good bargains.