GSR 800

53 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

The tractor!
Can see one turning up on a few layouts soon

I may have seen something suspiciously similar on marks models website..

40 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I see you've replicated the small outlet for point rodding on the down Sligo platform.

The renewal of that little tunnel under the platform was jhb171Senior's first ever solo civil engineering job on the GSR just after he joined the team of the very august P. T. Somerville-Large in the District Engineer's office in Westland Row.....

the platforms have yet to be detailed, but indeed the gap for the rodding on my platform will have to be extended back somewhat, it was quite large. Would he have been renewing that or perhaps the subway tunnel?

Having begun work on the two chimneys on the main station building, a had noted 4 others. These can be seen in these photos from Ernies archive

The only aerial photos I can find are unfortunately not of the best quality, but nonetheless are better than nothing. 

https://www.cambridgeairphotos.com/themes/railway+station/

along with an excellent photo from the o'dea collection which confirms the low walls of the current courtyard were once walls of a corridor.

So that leaves us with knowledge structures once existed which no longer exist within the courtyard, it likely spanned from canopy to canopy in one form or another, along with a second building nestled between which what probably the jacks. I cannot find anymore information on it, incuding what I can currently access from the IRRS, at least for the moment. Contact with several of the Irish architectural societies brought me no closer.  There was an L shaped corridor and the jacks seemed to have been roofed also, the real question is the specifics of the roofing and the chimney position.

I could either make an educated guess for the overall design on the building based on what I currently know and build with the ability to remove at a later date should better/better access to information arise. Quite the conundrum.

On 30/1/2021 at 3:52 PM, Irishswissernie said:

I have acquired 60 odd original Irish colour slides and have just captioned them today.

Here is a poser! Where do you think this semi rural scene is? No doubt familiar to our more senior members.

 

 

 Can't be certain, but apparently outside Broadstone?

On 1/2/2021 at 10:44 PM, jhb171achill said:

1.   All grey until 1945/6, then most lined green. Some remained grey till their demise mid-50s. One lasted to 1960 and that was the end - it was black, as several others were after 1956.

2.  Last in 1960. 

3.  The good news is - everything.

These engines were ordered by the MGWR initially, though later ones were really GSR locos, not MGWR. The history of the class is complex and well covered in McMahon & Clements "Big Green Bible".

They were originally intended for the Galway and Sligo mail trains, and did run on these and other trains on these lines. I saw some pics recently (very poor ones in a private collection!) of one approaching Sligo in the 1940s with a goods train, though one would have expected them to more often be on passenger trains.

This is not exhaustive; the late Billy Lohan regularly had one on the up Galway Day Mail in the late 1940s / early 50s before the AEC sets took over. He reported them as being excellent engines - and Billy didn't dish out such compliments unless well deserved! Given that this is a family forum, I will refrain from quoting him on a number of ex-MGWR types, though other drivers were happy enough with these beasts!

 

Good pic here of 396 hauling a rather pathetic looking train through Mullingar to Dublin! Judging by the state of the middle wagon, perhaps being sent to be repaired?

For some ex MGWR types, it seemed working at all was almost a novelty, though the rubbish coal likely didn't help

On 1/2/2021 at 3:10 PM, DJ Dangerous said:

I bought a green Bachmann N Class the other day, just testing how Hattons would work post-BrExit.

Do I need to glue a wheel to the smokebox door or something?

Since most regarding liveries has been covered, cosmetically yes addition of smokebox wheel certainly adds to the loco, but if going there perhaps raising the handrail on the smokebox door a few mill would be in order too. 

IIRC many had ladders on the back of the tender side, many ended up with their numbers on the top of the smokebox door too, as 396 demonstrates.

She's a thing of beauty John, even more so underway.

4 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Well it seems my question sparked some debate!

@murphaphas we found with our work on the Accurascale manor, easy conversion to finescale standards on RTR steam is next to impossible, due to valve gear, pistons and the placing of splashers. So, unless it's a simple O-6-0 without splashers, conversion to 21mm would be next to impossible. Kits will serve better there. 

Sorry that you are disappointed but I gave a reason beside my question. The last mass produced steam locomotive (Bachmann/Murphy Woolwich mogul) was reported to be a slow seller by a couple of retailers I talked to. It was a good model, offered serval liveries too. 

Correct JB, variety of liveries and/or icon status certainly helps. The J15 with OO Works did sell out, but their minimum production run number is a fraction of what ours is, so cannot really be compared I'm afraid. 

You could see it as that way, or is it segmenting an already tiny market to a point that it would not be viable? We all like our steam, and would love to make a steam locomotive, but we would need the whole market (namely diesel modellers) to buy it too, and more than one at that, for it to be viable.

That's not to say we are ruling out steam, we absolutely are not. But, just thought I would throw some commercial points of view out there and gauge what the real interest is. If the interest is there then of course we will make it, but it is a gamble for anyone!

Thanks,

Fran 

RTR rolling stock is an issue for anyone looking towards earlier periods, RTR laminates, Park Royals etc. One only has to look towards the interest here at hattons genesis stock to see that even semi prototypical rolling stock for steam has demand. Things that overlap with the early years of the A's are ideal, would make the likes of the silver and green liveried A's even more attractive. That is not to detract from the many excellent brass kits for coaches and indeed overlays, but RTR simply opens up an era for far more modellers. 

Mogul was somewhat before my time, but my two cents would be it was just a clean repaint of the N class. By the time the liveries were given the Woolwiches they had a different look from their british brothers across the sea. Lack of the inchicore smokebox and smokebox doors, wheels etc which were all fitted by the 30s meant that it didn't have the "irish" look, you could probably buy a regular mogul for less and convert. From a manufacturing point of view it was practical surely, had the design, just repaint it but it's not an original purpose built Irish locomotive, I think that makes a big difference. 

J15, smaller numbers yes, batch built so price was steep, nonetheless they, the U and UGs are all gone. Thing about the 00 works J15 is it was one of the roundtop boiler locos, aka one of the rarer ones, especially by the late 50s/early 60s but nonetheless sold out. I understand the production run is obviously entirely different, but I think the fact all three recently released irish steamers have sold out in spite of the steep cost is nonetheless, at the very least a good sign of a healthy hunger for irish steam.

If you want to go with something the majority of your market will buy it'll probably have to be something famous and preserved. Now speaking with massive, massive bias I'd say the 800s would be a good bet. Probably the most famous locomotives in Ireland, preserved , eye catching liveries, not a whole lot of variation between them and the possibility of attracting a few foreign buyers too. However, that said, Maeabh hasn't been in steam since the 60s, there were only 3 locomotives of the class built which means there are simpler fewer to buy. I do think it's one of the best for an RTR steam loco regardless, would feel like the obvious start for irish steam.

However I'd also be looking towards RPSI locomotives, V and S class both have preserved examples, there are multiple locomotives, the beautiful sky blue livery.  461 is another, totally unique although the drawbacks would be only two built, one preserved. She is a movie star though . 

J15s are an obvious one, two preserved, staple of irish steam with multiple variations to go for. They'd have been my go to for RTR recommendation if they hadn't already been done, but a few weathered ones with belpaire fireboxes and the larger smokeboxes would be perfect for any layout from late 40s through to early 60s.  What does a typhoon class submarine and a J15 have in common...

To summarise, overlap. late 50s/early 60s market is there with the A's and 121s. Add rolling stock and I think steam would be the natural progression after that. Personally I'd be looking towards the 800s or J15s if something like laminates or park royals get brought out, which is itself speculation but "creeping back in time" so you always have an overlap would open up the road for steam, while keeping the risk down. 

I'm sure many would be in favour of the more obscure locomotives, along with a 21 mm gauge RTR steam loco but ultimately it does have to be a viable venture.

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I love these old railwaymen's stories - they all just show up that we're all human throughout the ages!

Given these plus other issues referred to in other posts above, it's probable it would have remained a one-off. While the dieselisation process was going on, there were still some in Inchicore who believed that steam could be satisfactorily continued in front-line use until the 1970s. The idea was to eliminate all the old and non-standard engines and standardise as much as possible what was left. It is likely that the three 800s would have been retained, plus the Woolwiches and enough J15s for lighter duties......

So, in "00"; a black 800 with a CIE "roundel" on its tender, anyone? No, I wouldn't dare either.

Former GNR locomotives continued to be refitted in the late 50s and early 60s, often with the sky blue GNR livery freshly repainted if I'm remembering correctly. I'd find it likely you'd have something similar with the likes of the 800s, maybe a few of the luckier Woolwiches. Main question would be if they bother with a roundel or not!

for anything like a j15, black, almost certainly, Cork already did it with the odd loco they got to repaint and most were near enough black with filth regardless.

Turburner in black n tan or supertrain, there's an interesting thought..

Work has finally restarted on the signal box.

Not very happy with the windows on the Galway side so might replace them to fit with Sligo side.

Excellent and unique model from a unusual prototype.

There's quite a few threads across the forum regarding the turf burner, one recently included pictures of her next to one of the 800s, will have to dig that up.

There's also this model 

 I remember coming across a proposal for a 3D printed version?

As said during and after the Emergency, many locos were oil fired. 

5 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The white circles were an indication to the signalman that it was a oil burner and wouldn't get stuck mid section bailing out a bad fire.

Non oil burners burnt any sort of barely combustible rubbish that was to hand at the time, slack, briquettes, Inchicore experimental fuel, etc.

Aye, showed too, locomotives barely able to build up steam, breaking down, something going bust along the way. Maintainance nightmares. 

Were there some issues with oil firing though, otherwise would it not have been more widely implemented and for much longer? 

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

This is delightful. Very convincing and as scenic development continues will nicely lend itself to black and white photos appropriate to the era! Really like your 309. Those classic 4-4-0s don’t get modelled enough, but are absolutely key to any Irish layout set before 1960.

Many thanks Galteemore. Indeed 4-4-0s were commonplace during the 50s and one or two more may be on the cards in the near future. 

Some more work done over the past week.

The goods shed is, in reality quite a wide building, and the platform canopy extends past the goods shed. There also seems to have been a small structure on the platform adjacent to the goods shed siding but I lack better photos of it.

no.309 heads a passenger working through to Dublin.

Columns have been added to the Galway platform canopy.

Seen from the Sligo platforms, J15 no. 162 shunts in the goods yard.

400 class no.402 slows to a stop at Mullingar. She will take water before continuing on to Galway.

Work continues on Mullingar with the green and cream paint scheme making an appearance. 

Some scenery done just ahead of the platforms, a large frame is not prototypical.

Some progress has been done on the Galway platforms, and a comparison with the real thing 

Columns still need to be added to the Galway platforms and the signalbox has yet to advance from a mockup

Real picture is from Tom Ferris Second Glance 

At the other end of the platform the water tower and fencing has been added 

Looking across the platform reveals a hanging pillar nowhere near India..

Bit of work re scenics done at the mouth of the road bridge out to what is now the industrial estate but what was then a field, the road running along the wall back to the railway terraces. 

Rough shape cut out 

Walls plus grass added

This bridge, fraudulent in nature is nearly a mock up, but I am happy with the overall look. The wall next to the hut's rickety appearance exposes the surely relatable problem of running out of glue. 

To be finished tomorrow.

9 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

If I had started with no 16.5 gauge locos and stock. It would be far to expensive to convert, sadly.

Pretty much, unless there was some kind of buy back scheme and cost effective conversion services for locos and rolling stock, it's not really worth it. Path dependency has to be taken into account.

Bit more work has been done over the Christmas break,mainly around station frontage along with small bits of hidden scenery here and there.

One may notice the yard is somewhat compressed. This is mainly down to the space available. 

Maedbh starts a train towards Galway. She won't be going very far, as the bridge hasn't been started! In reality the line curves slightly before reaching the yard. 

Mullingar was awash with water towers, two on the Galway and Dublin platform and one at the sheds. A mock up of the latter can be seen.  There was also a signal box just ahead of the siding adjacent to the shed, still debating whether it should be put in or not.

A cattle engine is a must it however!

G2 has seen a good bit more work, overall easy to assemble, clear instructions and an enjoyable build, credit to JM. Everything else to be done when the likes of wheels actually arrive!

While I think the grey is overall a tad too dark, the grey was rarely clean anyway and dulled to an almost black, perhaps with the assistance of the odd oily rag.  Seems to be several shades of grey due to the lighting...

The darker colour is a bit clearer next to the J15.

And now for something a bit different.

the G2 class were a regular at Mullingar and indeed some members of the class lingered on until the end of steam.

The G2 class have returned it seems, mass produced from New Zealand! Having made landfall yesterday, I set to work. Chassis is a straightforward job, fold up and make sure it's square. 

Some prefabrication greatly speeded up the construction of the body! 

Dry fitting shows what needs to be tidied and squared!

On 6/10/2020 at 11:16 AM, Midland Man said:

The king came because of the Streamstown juntion incident in whitch 2 locos were damaged 1 loco that being Elephant destroyed completely.(I beleive) Funnily The shed that the IRA hid their "loot" would be on land that 10 years later my grandad would buy and rebuild the shed. The shed still stands only the design is not the same.

MM

We've a selection of chocolate digestives and Maryland cookies to choose between..

Signal box has been started, with a mockup dry fitted to see what she'll look like and if anything else needs to be done.

Plenty of card around, might as well use it!

The planking for the signal box is guaranteed to be an interesting ordeal..

36 minutes ago, Mayner said:

You have certainly captured the atmosphere of the station and the semi-circular buffet-refreshment room

I recently came across a photo of King Tutankhamen sitting just outside the refreshment room...had drawn somewhat of a crowd too!

A biscuit to anyone who knows why a pharaoh was so far from Egypt...

Throughout the construction of the layout I've faced two major issues. The down side of the stations rear facade is completely overgrown, and there's no photographs to my knowledge of it that are of use. The other is the roadside facade of the railway terrace, which while more visible, is in many ways a mess of windows, porches and lots of swearing regarding said windows and porches.

The answer therefore is simple, basically flip the layout so that both of these troubling facades are facing a wall and out of view. This also opens up more room both for the station and the yard, and so I had little hesitation.

Having completed the switch I turned my attention towards the railway terraces. Plenty of photographic evidence both past and present to go off, and so far less of a headache to deal with.

The station signal box is next on the construction list, the first of three! And the only one still standing in good condition. Another stood next to the engine shed, and was likely removed in the 1960s, the last was close to the gantry and the lower half survives to this day.

For modelling in general, the Athlone line has a lot to offer, large stations like Mullingar and Athlone, to small halts such a Streamstown. Indeed there are quite impressive banks just before castletown and streamstown, along with plenty of bridges and tunnels to provide scenic breaks.

Alas I will stick to modelling one station for the timebeing....

Few more pics today, some more progress on the station building too.

Obviously there's still much to be done, the last picture shows that quite clearly!

The curved roof of the station is proving to be an...interesting...task and the rear facade for the Galway side building is non existent as I've no idea what it'd have looked like! Quite the conundrum..

What else is to be done, finishing up the engine shed and railway terrace, at least two of the three signal boxes, water tank, water tower....

As dusk approaches, one of the J15s, no.162, brings goods from the Galway direction through the station towards Dublin.

17 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

WOW 

please put more up. Sure Mullingar is like my 40km down a few roads. If its going to be a 50s/60s scene you can run realistically 

U class 131 

A couple of J15s 

A LM class 0-6-0

A G2 class

D5/6s

And many more but a 800 can look nice as well. You got the engine shed spot on. Do not forget the railway houses  where the old station master was shot [ long story]. the Sligo side has a bridge that you can run trains down it like a branch line but have it loop round to the main line. [ hope you get me] Two questions

1. could i sea the track plan or what is the length?

2.  Are you building the Breathland track layer?

 

 

 

 

 

The station is within 5k of myself so easy access.

The Sligo side won't be modeled, don't have the space for it.

G2 will hopefully arrive from NZ once international shipping is back on the regular, the idea is generally realistic running, moguls, J15s, cattle engines, G2s along with some of the D's but 800 and 402 weren't built to not be run!

I'm well aware of the murder of Thomas Anketell,  and the reasons behind it..

No plan on the track layer

Currently have two boards 10x2 foot, nothing is set in stone yet but overall idea is a somewhat simplified track plan for the yard

Mullingar is one of the more unusual stations in Ireland, and offers plenty of modelling opportunity,  a junction station at the heart of the MGWR, with a large cattle bank, goods shed,  engine shed, a large gantry, the list is long to say the least.

My focus is on the Athlone side, although both sides of the station have a lot to offer, the engine shed, goods shed and cattle sidings were all on the Athlone side of the station. Progress has been slow, but it's finally starting to have a vague resemblance. 

Maedbh makes a visit to Mullingar en route to Galway. The Civil Engineer was on holiday at the time apparently.

WIP of the station building on the Dublin side of the station 

Engine shed and railway terrace under construction, slate roof is dry fitted.

Far from finished clearly!