GSR 800

Might be worth looking at the comments lads, an offer was accepted yesterday from what I can see

Wonderful, can't wait to see the quayside develop!

Reading through Ernie Shepherd's history of the MGWR, I noticed he refers to possible talks in the early 20s that the LNWR was considering purchasing the MGWR. There are several different possibilities mentioned, including a merger of the MGWR and the GNR.

This is certainly an interesting 'what if' scenario. The LNWR would soon become part of the LMS, meaning the latter would have a considerable stake in Ireland with both the NCC and MGWR. Anyone know any more about these talks? 

One can only begin to wonder the possible impact on locomotive and rolling stock policy, nevermind trains themselves...

40 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Photos restored in the RMWeb CMAC CAF3000 build thread

Cheers

Darius

Looks great Darius, glad to see someone restoring workbench thread photos on RMweb. Countless great locos and layouts and I can't see them!

I always find it strange that when they are doubled up into 6 car sets (2x3) NIR seemingly throw the wipers across to the couple gap, makes them look very bizarre!

56 minutes ago, Markleman said:

Yes Leslie - even I am ancient enough to have visited the refreshment room in Mullingar. In 1974 I was doing an all-Ireland rover trip. On 3 July 1974 we travelled to Mullingar from the Athlone direction and were changing trains to head towards Sligo. Being July it was cold. The place was called something like "The Woodbrook Refreshment Room" after the racecourse.

Present with me were Aubrey Dale and Michael Norris as he was back then. We had tea and a scone. The place was run by a very strict lady, assisted by two girls who looked about 16 and seemed very alarmed by their boss. The boss barked orders to them. The staff had white pinny-type covers on, like the tea room in Dad's Army. We had to put in a bit of time before heading off for Longford so it was a good chance to get into the warm.

We knew at the time that we were enjoying a bit of history. We also used the refresh in Claremorris which was totally different place - just a dark room and totally informal. Mullingar was bright and neat but clearly run to a strict routine. It could never have lasted, but it was great experience to sample it while we could.

Great layout - how Mullingar station has changed over the years.

Hi Jim, wonderful story, many thanks for sharing.

I believe the refreshment room was the 'Newbrook refreshment room'. There were photos in the O'Dea collection on platform 2 that showed the advertisement for the Newbrook refreshment room, but alas, I cannot find them now.

11 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Fabulous. That 800 really is the business. 

Thanks Galteemore, hopefully I'll have a MGWR 4-4-0 at Mullingar in the future!

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I bought the print and have scanned the areas of text at higher resolution. I think it's clear now, it's 'WASHBANK' which makes a lot of sense in the light of the comment above.

Also the wagon number does start with 0, probably a series used for restricted or internal user wagons?

Mol

Aha! 

That makes a lot of sense. Back in the day, Mullingar Station had quite an array of bushes, trees, flowers, and the like, all of which kept looking very trim and proper. I wonder if they used this manure as fertiliser for it?

What a mighty beast!

The detail is fabulous, excellent work.

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

What an absolutely wonderful layout.

I do have one question though:-

After this, I added some roping around the base. I cannot for the life of me remember what this is called. I knew once. At any rate, the rope is for hanging paintings steeped in tea. It looks quite overscale, but I don't mind.

Why would they steep paintings in tea and then hang them on the base of a water tower?

Cheers

Darius

Hi Darius,

You won't believe, I only caught that earlier myself!

One can only imagine some of the lads must have had a bit of revolutionary zeal going on...maybe the painting was of Boston Harbour...

Also, LAGGING was what I was trying to think of!

16 minutes ago, Branchline121 said:

I’m late to this conversation, but I’d have to point out a restaurant that has recently enough opened near me in the village of Kilmainhamwood, called the “GNR cafe”, despite the fact Kilmainhamwood is on the MGWR Kingscourt branch, not to mention its logo has a loco with an American-style cowcatcher — just like the Railway Bar in Navan. I wouldn’t mind only Google is free.

MGWR erasure strikes again.

On somewhat of a tangent, I don't think a single railway in the country as large as the Midland has been as effectively vanquished. Broadstone was shut, the Galway main line was cut and diverted to the GSWR line, and not a single MGWR loco survives. 

The lads at Maam Cross are doing good work to return some Midland glory!

Just to add, actual loco + tender shell would cost around 55 euro

35 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Fair play Harry I have been planning to build a fleet of Midland engines since I was a teenager and it took me 40 years and several false starts to build a successful Ks/650 Class. I still have wheelsets stashed away for a Cattle Engine, Standard Goods, 650 & Achill Bogie.

Fitting B1 wheels under a D16/3 (Hornby ?) is a nice bit of latteral thinking as its becoming increasingly difficult to source loco driving wheels from traditional sources like Markits & AGW.

Having used a professional 3D modeller to design most of my 3D models, Killan's fee for designing the A Class appears reasonable. 

By the way 544 in the photo of the train arriving at Broadstone is one of the ligher/shorer C Class equally deserving of being modelled

I am heavily comitted to 21mm gauge and working in metal, but its looking increasingly unlikely at this stage that I will get around to building a 21mm layout and may have to compromise on OO to build a layout.

Well done for showing such initiative

John,

Your plans and advice have been invaluable, I'm happy to have one of your 650s, and my plans would stay plans without Killian's wizardry! The talent lies with him, and he puts up with my mad ideas!

I'm hoping my 650 will be complete shortly.  Markits seem to be on hiatus. Other sources seem to be drying up also, quite difficult getting wheels for the 650. 

D16/3 is indeed Hornby. The B1 drivers slot straight in, and have the same bearings and gear. The only thing that needs to be changed out is the crankpin, the geared set on the B1s has crankpins for walschearts, so Killian had the idea to pop them out and the ones from the old wheels were popped in. 

Pickups were persuaded into place easily, was just a matter of trimming length off the brake shoes and the sand pipe.

Will have to change out that C for an A!

17 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

Oh dear perhaps I oughn't to have done such an adequate job on the 800 LOL but no if we get enough backing Id love to do this

whats the rule of thumb? 'if you have a 4-4-0 and an 0-6-0 you can run 99% of Irish steam era trains' or in the earlier era a 2-4-0 and 0-6-0

And then the 2-4-0s outlasted a lot of the 4-4-0s...Atock would have been delighted.

Evening all,

I've been considering commissioning an MGWR design from Killian following the completion of the 800 project.

The 'flagship' locos of the MGWR were the class A 4-4-0s, the largest express passenger locomotives in Ireland when built. They've a long lifespan, interesting variations and liveries to boot! To my eye the locos in their CIE guise were some of the most handsome engines on the system.

Aesthetics aside, we come to our first major hurdle. Almost every rtr 4-4-0 on the market has 6'8 or 6'9 driving wheels, compared to the MGWRs big 4-4-0s with 6'3 drivers. 

Here I began some experimentation. I purchased a D16/3 alongside some Princess Royal 6'6 driving wheels and black five bogie wheels off peters spares. Initially I used B1 drivers, but while more accurate, these caused the loco to slip furiously with a load

Out went one wheelset, the crankpins were swapped, and in went the new set. Ditto with the bogie wheels. Drawbar was adjusted slightly to accommodate. Brake shoes and sand pipe were cut back slightly to avoid fouling the track. Pickups were gently persauded to align with the smaller wheels. 

The patient is at full health following her operation, runs smoothly.

Quote for designing the loco and tender is roughly 400-500 euros, which I believe is more than fair for the time and effort Killian puts into it, and the attention to detail. If there are other customers I am told the design price could be brought down. 

This is a gauge of interest. Obviously a bit more work in terms of the chassis compared to the 800s. New wheelsets have to be bought, etc. Took under an hour to swap everything out and make the necessary adjustments. 

If anyone is interested let us know.

16 hours ago, Mayner said:

A Jan 2024 Irish Times article paints quite a different picture with the Dublin Port Company downplaying increased rail usage in its expansion plans and the Transport Minister Michael Martin 'encouraging' the Port Company to make increased use of rail, including a instruction to model (carry out a feasibility study) of railing container traffic  between the IE North Wall Depot to an 'alternative site" (Inland Port) outside of the Port. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/01/17/dublin-port-downplays-increased-role-for-rail-freight-in-expansion-plans-despite-ryans-concerns/

The Port's argument appears to be that  rail traffic through the Port has been falling and that "de-carbonisation" may be achieved more quickly and effectively with 'low-emission" trucks through the Port Tunnel & Motorway network.

As far as I recall there was talk  of Dublin Port closing rail access to the Alexandra Road Terminal at some stage this year in order to improve road access to the terminal through a flyover (for trucks) over Alexandra Road.

 

Eamonn Ryan, the Green transport minister, not Michael Martin FFs leader and Tanaiste.

Greens got obliterated at the election. Won't cry for them, but they were a good voice for rail.

59 minutes ago, LNERW1 said:

In fairness they do keep getting voted in so presumably they’re pleasing everyone enough to keep that out of sight and out of mind. The entire island of Ireland outside of Dublin, Belfast and a little bit of Cork has fallen into a rut of car dependence. It’s a little like America in that we seem to have forgotten how useful and important effective passenger rail (or in our case rail altogether) is. It’s unfortunate but unavoidable. Maybe the new developments in Dublin will spur on the rest of the country to demand effective public transport.

Maybe the other half of the country will show up to vote next time..

While US passenger rail definitely got the short end of the stick, its not as feasible in terms of long-range journeys across the continent. Aircraft can just get there significantly faster.

Where there is a slowly growing market is intercity travel within larger states such as Florida or Texas, with multiple large cities within a few hundred miles of each other

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

It could be black - but also it could be filth. The clue is the buffer beam, which looks just as black. When a red buffer beam shows black, grey paint will look that way even quicker. Jury would have to be out on that one, I'd say...

I wouldn't count much on the bufferbeam, considering the front end of the loco is in shadow, as can be seen on the ground. Detail on the smokebox door barely visible.

She looks very black indeed, although the 'orange' hue of the number may indicate she's been cleaned with oily rags, hence her black but clean appearance. She's near spotless though..

The 400s green looks thoroughly dirty, sun bleached and faded. The lining is long gone!

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I had my eye on this too. I think the number is 0731. 
The wording appears to read ‘TO WORK BETWEEN WATERBANK AND STATION ONLY’ but it’s not entirely clear on the scan. 
Did the cattle bank at Mullingar have a name?

From the same seller there’s also a nice photo of a pair of the MGWR side-discharge coal wagons of continental design:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335714103886?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=jL0OYQ-sSgG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Well the cattlebank has the canal right behind it so its possible that's what its referring too. Hardly 'watertank'?

This photo is taken at the far end of Mullingar yard, near the gantry, where there was a kind of island dock adjacent the cattlebank, presumably used to wash out and lime cattle wagons. Perhaps being for cleaning purposes, this was the 'waterbank'?

Would make sense to have a manure wagon there where they're cleaning out cattle wagons, after all.

7 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

No trolley on this 3-car, and none on an NIR 6-car I was on some weeks ago.

Gawd be with the days when 4.4.0 No. 207 could be produced with a fine set of wooden GNR carriages, as per my very earliest Enterprise memory (I guess about 1962)…

I can only hope the new sets when they come out are reliable and comfortable.

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes - you’ve hit the nail on the head.

No tea trolley even, on this jam-packed oul crate. Was looking forward to a cooked breakfast!

There should be a trolley on one of the 2x3 cars. Usually its the one at the Connolly end of the set.

34 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’m sitting in a so-called “enterprise” right now. Supposed to be a DD, but of course it’s a 3-car NIR railcar, jammed with people standing before it even leaves Connolly. Wish I’d taken the bus.

8.50 is usually NIR CAF, 9.50 and 10.50 are usually loco hauled, 11.50 ICR. 

Hourly service is really too much to ask from the locos and the DDs, the infrastructure of loco-hauled stock isn't in place anymore. There's no loco to save a train if it sits down say in Dundalk or somewhere nearby, the CAFs aren't designed for such a service. Only the ICRs are a decent substitute, and there's not enough of them to fully substitute.

10 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ll have a look! Thought it might have been here but can’t find it….

There's this from a while ago 

https://www.railjournal.com/rolling-stock/irish-rail-and-northern-ireland-railways-tender-new-enterprise-fleet/

Theres also a tender out to refresh the older stock to hold it over until then. One of the gennys has already been refurbished at Inchicore this year.

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W46/834535596

31 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The DD’s will be held together by bale twine, the 29s will be fine, except for the fact there won’t be any floor left 

plenty of 29s going around with new floors

14 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

Hi Fran

Please text me with the news - I'm behind "Clan Line" en route to Sherborne for the Abbey's Carol Service.

Sooo, which of my kits do I stop making now .......

This wagon lark was a big misdirect. Clearly its Bulleids CC1

9 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

I dislike the freedom of choice being curtailed. That and the postage situation of delays, bureaucratic bumbling, expensive postage/Revenue shakedowns, that this is happening in the 21st century and it's kind of normalised now is wild.

Everything's HO in EU zone, architectural bits and bobs, loco and rolling stock elements pretty much completely different, road vehicles are of continental outline. It's yet another unintended consequence pain in the face.

Protectionism through regulation. Nobody wins.

This is bad news for getting supplies for kits and other niche items the British market has managed to serve well for so long.