GSR Carriage Liveries

[jhb171achill]

For a major railway company from 1925 to 1945 which operated the overwhelming majority of all of the railways within the Republic, remarkably little coherent info of use to modellers seems to be out there, other than the McMahon & Clements locomotive "green bible".

The GSR had three distinct carriage liveries, with variations on two of them.

First, 1925 onwards, a continuation of the GSWR's extremely dark maroon, or "crimson lake". Darker than the colours then in use by both the DSER and MGWR, and quite a change from the green of the CBSCR and the liveries of certain narrow gauge lines.

The lining style shown above could vary according to the carriage design.

This livery was PARTLY replaced in the very late 1920s, initially only on main line bogie coaches, though it seems that a small number of six-wheeled brake vehicles also got it, probably to look uniform on the Cork and Galway mails. This was a GWR-of-England inspired livery, by the look of it; chocolate brown, as opposed to any sort of "brownish" maroon, and cream, with black lining.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

This brown and cream appears to have started about 1928/9, and possibly when the Pullmans appeared; they initially carried this livery.

[jhb171achill]

From 1935 at least, and possibly a couple of years earlier, these two liveries, which had run concurrently with principal stock in the brown and cream and secondary, local, six-wheel and narrow gauge stock in the older all-over "dark lake" colour, were replaced by a livery virtually identical to that of the LMS in Britain, and by extension the NCC - except that in later years much stock on the NCC was unlined.

The variation to this last livery was in secondary and narrow gauge stock which also, coincidentally, was unlined. This overall maroon spread to all GSR stock by degrees, though one MGWR coach was observed newly painted brown and cream as late as 1936 or thereabouts.

When badly weathered, this colour could take on a brownish tint, due to brake dust sticking to it, just like most bogies on anything both then and now. When faded, the paint bleached to a salmony pinkish colour - for anyone who wants a derelict coach still in old GSR livery stuffed among the weeds at the back of a siding on a layout.......

[Galteemore]

These are very good JHB - thank you !

[Pete00018]

On 14/2/2022 at 2:04 AM, jhb171achill said:

From 1935 at least, and possibly a couple of years earlier, these two liveries, which had run concurrently with principal stock in the brown and cream and secondary, local, six-wheel and narrow gauge stock in the older all-over "dark lake" colour, were replaced by a livery virtually identical to that of the LMS in Britain, and by extension the NCC - except that in later years much stock on the NCC was unlined.

The variation to this last livery was in secondary and narrow gauge stock which also, coincidentally, was unlined. This overall maroon spread to all GSR stock by degrees, though one MGWR coach was observed newly painted brown and cream as late as 1936 or thereabouts.

When badly weathered, this colour could take on a brownish tint, due to brake dust sticking to it, just like most bogies on anything both then and now. When faded, the paint bleached to a salmony pinkish colour - for anyone who wants a derelict coach still in old GSR livery stuffed among the weeds at the back of a siding on a layout.......

JBH, what colour would you recommend for the faded salmony pink colour for worn/oou stock.  I'm thinking like C&L carriage 1L was by 1953.

Thanks for all the invaluable info.

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, Pete00018 said:

JBH, what colour would you recommend for the faded salmony pink colour for worn/oou stock.  I'm thinking like C&L carriage 1L was by 1953.

Thanks for all the invaluable info.

Pretty much what it looks like, Pete - a pinkish colour with a brownish tint - much of which would be brake dust.

While railways all went to great lengths to keep paint colours uniform (despite many urban legends about a million shades of this or that), fading would be different in every case. Weather, sunlight, intensive use, storage at different distances from smoke-producing loco sheds, etc etc, all played a part. A vehicle might be more work-worn on one side than the other…..

So if you wanted to model something that looks that much worn, I’d go for some mix of a beige colour and a light red, maybe. Experiment on card first!

You’ll note that the green on the other coach is almost as bad. The C & L had no carriage shed by this stage and everything spent 100% of its time outdoors in the rain!

[Pete00018]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Pretty much what it looks like, Pete - a pinkish colour with a brownish tint - much of which would be brake dust.

While railways all went to great lengths to keep paint colours uniform (despite many urban legends about a million shades of this or that), fading would be different in every case. Weather, sunlight, intensive use, storage at different distances from smoke-producing loco sheds, etc etc, all played a part. A vehicle might be more work-worn on one side than the other…..

So if you wanted to model something that looks that much worn, I’d go for some mix of a beige colour and a light red, maybe. Experiment on card first!

You’ll note that the green on the other coach is almost as bad. The C & L had no carriage shed by this stage and everything spent 100% of its time outdoors in the rain!

Thanks.   I spent a good 20 mins looking at the the colour shades in MarksModels during the week, just wasn't able to find a faded maroon shade to match the LRTL tour photos. The etch primer and then maybe a spray and light primer might help lighten it before applying the livery.   

But will I've some brass frets to test on before applying anything to the body.

Yes, the green on carriage 11L is also faded, that's another headache for later to see what colour to try match that up with 

 

Would you have a suggested what to use for normal GSR marron?     Cannot seem to get the Phoenix Precision spray shipped over. I seen a recommended a Halford Rover maroon? {cant recall the one} on this forum, but couldn't find it stock in Halfords anymore.

[Galteemore]

I’ve used Rover damask red for that kind of thing. Any solid maroon should work ok. Make sure you use red primer. I think Halfords may call it ‘nightfire red’ now. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

I’ve used Rover damask red for that kind of thing. Any solid maroon should work ok. Make sure you use red primer. I think Halfords may call it ‘nightfire red’ now. 

 

2 hours ago, Pete00018 said:

Thanks.  I spent a good 20 mins looking at the the colour shades in MarksModels during the week, just wasn't able to find a faded maroon shade to match the LRTL tour photos. The etch primer and then maybe a spray and light primer might help lighten it before applying the livery.   

But will I've some brass frets to test on before applying anything to the body.

Yes, the green on carriage 11L is also faded, that's another headache for later to see what colour to try match that up with 

 

Would you have a suggested what to use for normal GSR marron?     Cannot seem to get the Phoenix Precision spray shipped over. I seen a recommended a Halford Rover maroon? {cant recall the one} on this forum, but couldn't find it stock in Halfords anymore.

For GSR the above is a bit on the light side - the shade they (PLUS the NCC & BCDR, as it happens; I've seen actual examples of all three!) used was as close to 1920s LMS maroon as makes no odds. Any English supplier of authentic pre-British Railways colours could presumably supply that?

By the way - Galteemore - what IS that absolute beauty of a coach?

[Galteemore]

22 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

 

For GSR the above is a bit on the light side - the shade they (PLUS the NCC & BCDR, as it happens; I've seen actual examples of all three!) used was as close to 1920s LMS maroon as makes no odds. Any English supplier of authentic pre-British Railways colours could presumably supply that?

By the way - Galteemore - what IS that absolute beauty of a coach?

Thanks JHB. Is an LSWR royal saloon (Alphagraphix  kit) now sold on to a purchaser in SE England. Lovely little kit with compensated chassis, which I finished in a fictional light railway livery. The chariot ends were a challenge…..The real life one is here ;https://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/rollingstock topics/royal saloon.html