Some thoughts on layout design and scale.

[Mayner]

Probably prompted by Celtic-transpot's recent post about designing a micro-layout based on IE practice set in the 90/00s era. I experienced similar problems during the late 70s trying to fit a OO gauge Irish outline layout into the box bedroom of my parents home and switched to N Gauge out of frustration trying to fit a small station (Dunboyne, Meath Road) and fiddle yard into an 9' space. The absence of suitable N Gauge locos and stock wasn't an issue as any Irish outline model involved an element of modification or scratchbuilding regardless of the scale or gauge, added source of frustration was the recently introduced Lima HO/OO Class 33 & OO Class 50 were not the most reliable of runners.

After a false start with a continuous run layout based on Kilmessan Junt. on a folding 8X2 baseboard, although the layout operated reliably my carpentry wasn't quite up to it to support the hinged joint and the 180° curve on the scenic section at the Dublin end of the station did not work visually for me, difficult to justify a tunnel in the valley of the Skane between Kilmessan and Dunsaney. I got round modelling the Athboy branch by running the lead to the branch up to the baseboard edge.  In OO a similar layout would take up a length of approx 16' with a width of 5-6' to allow for an oval track layout with storage loops on the opposite side with a min-main line radius of 2'

Next layout was end to end featuring a terminus station based on Foynes, a scenic section which featured a 5 arch viaduct, a halt/small station based on Ardfert and fiddle yard all on 1' wide shelf baseboards on 3 sides of an 11X11 room. 

The terminus was on a 5'X1' baseboard (approx 10'x2' OO) a 2'6" x1" curved section linked the terminus to the 5' viaduct section, the halt/small station was on a 4' board, the fiddle yard at 90° to the halt/small station. The Viaduct section (across the bedroom window) was a lift out section supported by the baseboards at either end.

Operationally the terminus and fiddle years were capable of handling a 5 coach passenger train and 15 wagon goods trains, with operation based on contemporary CIE practice 2 main line passenger to and from Dublin daily, a night mail, loose coupled goods or Liner train of bogie wagons, Block Oil train or cattle train. Stock was initially British outline rtr, CIE diesel locos later entered service with plasticard or kitbashed rtr bodies on Rivorossi and Arnold chassis, British outline stock re-painted in CIE livery with some modified/kitbashed stock e.g pairs of MK1 BK end coaches modified into BR Vans and CIE Full Brakes, Bagged Cement scratch built plasticard body on std Farish 4w wagon chassis, generally meeting the 2' rule, buildings scratchbuilt in embossed and plain plasticard based on Foynes (incl roof) Ardfert and low relief office/public buildings from Sligo

I found operating the layout satisfying running regular Sunday morning operating sessions for the 2-3 years the layout existed, while I quickly seem to loose interest operating smaller layouts with less operating interest.

The N gauge layout was abandoned following a house move and I started work on a 4mm 21mm gauge layout based on Ballymoe on the Mayo line in a 17'6" X8' attic 2-3 years later, layout did not progress beyond the basic tracklaying stage and some station buildings due to a move to the UK.

I refurbished the attic and started work on an American outline continuous run layout following my return from the UK 10 years later, initially set up oval test track around perimiter of attic to establish maximum feasible train length using Kadee couplers while I built a couple of 3'6 X1' modules based on the N Trak principal in a spare bedroom (7' max length available above workbench!)

While it was feasible to operate a 50 (American freight car) train on the test track, I decided on a maximum 15 car train length (30-4w British/Irish outline) on the planned N scale layout (2-Co Co 3-5-Bo Bo locos) both to keep/yards/trains at a reasonable length to fit in the attic and avoid having to double/trebble my car fleet in order to operate the planned train sequence.

The layout was eventually constructed with a fixed baseboard around the perimiter of the attic to accommodate the staging/ hidden trackage with modular scenic sections featuring an industrial area and yard on one side of the attic and a section with a tall steel trestle and a small town with crossing place and industrial siding on the opposite side. The layout was in a looped 8 format with trains having to complete 2 loops of the room to return to their starting place!

Although we had a number of operating sessions with visiting operators, it was only really feasible to run long distance "Symbol Freights" from staging to main yard or staging during our operation sessions, and the crossing place and industries seldom operated. 

I dismantled the N scale layout following our move to New Zealand in 2004 and although we began expanding the Nscale (re-using the Irish built modules) into our 24'X10' garage in Auckland with the intention of creating an American style 'walk round" layout with central peninsula, we once again moved home in 2007 and shifted to Large Scale modelling in the garden, although American outline the operating concept is similar to the Irish outline layout I built over 40 years ago. Staging/fiddle yard (complete with turntable & pilot loco) in the garage, an intermediate crossing siding (American for loop!) and spur (siding) and terminal with sidings, spur tracks and loco depot.

Although freight trains can load to 10-12 cars, 7-8 cars (14-16 Irish 4w) seems to be the happy place in terms of loco haulage capability and works visually (looks like a reasonably long train.)

[Patrick Davey]

An enjoyable read John!

 

[Mayner]

Some practical examples of layouts that did not (quite) work.

My first attempt at an end-to end layout in the Box Bedroom of my parents house

started 76/7 after I had started work and bought a Lima HO Class 33 to bash into a B201 and Deltic for bogies for an A Class with plasticard body. The Class 33 was similar in length/width to a B201 but too low so in increased the height of the loco by adding strips of plasticard below the body. Chassis was eventually used in my first attempt at a B121!

Fitting an end to end layout with a through station and terminal and reliable operaton with the Lima diesels turned out to be an insurmentable challenge and abandoned after about a year.

On the plus side researching and scratchbuilding Dunboyne Station building out of balsa was an enjoyable project, took the bus to Dunboyne and drew sketches of the buildings hadn't a camera at the time, the Peco curved points worked well on the terminal approach but not sure if I had space for a run round loop. Dunboyne was unsuccessful from an operating perspective not enough space to include the goods sidings or a functioning crossing loop, 3 way point in the fiddle yard not too successful.

Kilmessan nearly worked 8'x2' N gauge c/78/9

Inspired by Brain McCann's Bagnalstown Layout and magazine articles on Chiltern Green, I tried an 8'X2' N gauge layout continous layout based on Kilmessan Junction as my first N gauge project. Herbert Richards an IRRS member supplied a collection of photos of the station before signals were removed and track lifted though a cut down former GNR Railcar A appeared in some of the photos. Buildings scratchbuilt in mounting board and some basic sccenic work completed. Although I intended to run unmodified British Outline RTR, I tried to bash a Lima Brush Type 2 into an A Class and repainted a Lima Centre cab diesel shunter into blue as MAK 800 (probabably the best of my collection of Lima N gauge locos. The Bush Type 2 were quite oversized almost TT, I also bashed Lima Freightliner wagons into an approximation of CIE bogie flats by cutting out the centre section and gluing the ends together. It was an enjoyabe layout but let down when one of the wooden blocks that supported the hinges that allowed the two sections of the layout split and disliked the 9" radius curves at either end of the layout.

Still a model of Kilmessan probabably just about fit within a length of 16' or preferribly 20' + in 4mm scale.

A change of location and direction "Inch" North Kerry in N on a 4' literally plank .

I visited Dunboyne and drew some sketched on a 1976 day trip by bus and spent a very interesting day exploring Fenit Branch and North Kerry by bike from Tralee on my summer holidays in 1978 and later decided to build an end to end layout as an alternate to a continuous run. This time I had an Instamatic camera and recorded several photos rather than drawing sketches.

This time buildings were in plasticard, scribed to represent stonework, though I used 2 rather than 3 ply construction and they eventually warped!

Although I eventually incorporated Inch into a larger layout, I seem to have used the 'plank' as a diorama for displaying models and even took it to one of the Wexford Clubs exhibitions with some Graham Farish 4w GER coaches masquerading as CIE 6wheelers coupled to a green A Class (plasticard scratchbuild body

 

[Mayner]

I thought it best to write about my experiences with the Irish outline end to end N gauge layout I built/operated during the late 70/early80s because I managed to build and almost complete the layout in a relatively short time frame compared to my more recent efforts.

I built the layout during my early 20s in my bedroom in my parents' house while attending college and working as a trainee manager with a construction company, whatever about the income I did not have much spare time. Fitting in an 11'X11' room the layout was my first using 1' wide wall mounted shelves, though the fiddle yard section (fitting behind my wardrobe) was only 6" wide. The main station based on Foynes (before 1960s development of oil and ore traffic!) Had a larger goods shed than the prototype (Kilmessan Shed clad in embossed plasticard) and a GSWR style 2 road engine shed with North Light roof. Main advance over Kilmessan was buildings were now plasticard with glazed windows (glazing bars drawn in ink with a tubular drafting pen). The approach road to the station featured a backdrop of low relief buildings from Sligo from a book of drawings of building from Irish towns possibly by Patrick Shaffery.

I managed to find two photos of the main station, but none of the other sections of the layout!

Duncormick (Foynes!) General view 5'X1' baseboard. 

Late 70s scene Dublin passenger about to depart. Withdrawn wagons stored/dumped in loco shed

Electrically the layout was wired for cab control and points in both stations controlled by H&M pointmotors using H&M passing contact switches and double throw centre off section switches.

Two controllers were used to control the layout a H&M Safety Minor at the passing station/junction with a H&M electronic controller at the main station (powered by the Safety Minor 15V a/c auxilary output at Duncormick (terminus) points powered by Safety Minor 12V D/C output.

A variant of "Linked Section Control" (using relays) was used to control tains on the single main line section Trains were always driven towards the controller. A train departing the junction/crossing station towards the terminus was controleld by the controller at the terminus and vice versa.  The layouts scenics were reasonably complete including non-working signals, ballasted/weathered track (cheap air brush!), ground contours were formed using hardboard fascia in conjunction with card formers, groundcover was formed using polystyrene film overlaid with dyed medical lint (hairy side up) to minimise mess during construction, lichen and proprietry cast trees with foliage. Looking back the most jarring feature was the use of Peco flexible lineside fencing totally inappropriate for a layout set in Ireland particularly the West!

Although the layout was reasonably complete in its final stage I never completed the scenic work on the viaduct section after I extended the viaduct from 3-5 arches a year or so before we moved home and the layout put into storage. Similarly I never completed the scenic work around a pair of bridges (a central feature) on an American outline N Scale layout I built about 20 years later, I wonder what Freud would have to say.

I considered re-erecting/configuring the N gauge layout in the loft of our new home, but moved on to considering a new N gauge layout which featured both Athenry and Tuam Stations featuring both Galway and WLWR line operations (effectively a looped 8 ) before deciding on something less ambitious Ballymoe on the Mayo Line in 4mm 21mm gauge. I had checked out both Athenry and Tuam while on holidays in the West in 83-4 and even been stopped by a Tuam-Dundalk/Navan Beet Empties at Coolmine crossing during the final year of beet operations and it was feasible to fit an almost scale length model of Athenry and Tuam on opposite side of our loft and have space for staging for scale length trains. In the end the introduction of the TMD Midland Small Tank, a visit to Ballymoe and reading the works of Rice may have swung the pendelum in favour of 4mm. 

In the end Ballymoe did not progress far beyond the tracklaying stage, I bascially abandoned the project after moving to London during the mid 80s and rather ironically built an American outline N scale folded 8 layout in its place following my return to Dublin 10 years later .  Interestingly I found that modelling one large station/yard kept me busy as an operator and I seldom operated the second station/yard on the folded 8 layout, either Athenry or Tuam would have been enough in their own right, but not really feasible as a mainly solo project especially during the Beet Campaign or major seasonal Fairs.

[Mayner]

4mm 21mm gauge Irish branch line terminnus-fiddle yard in 8' not the most successful.

During the late 80s decided to build an 8'X18" layout mainly as a test track for my Irish 21mm gauge models while staying in London.

I used woodgrain finished melamine faced chipboard from local B&Q for basebards and its supports, wanting a neat finish similar to the furniture in my room and could be assembled quickly with minimal tools. The basebards and its supporting book case looked great but weighed a ton not the most portable!

Layout was inspired by the Castlerack terminal, track was laid in Peco Conductor rail (Code60?) on copperclad sleepers, ballasted with woodland scenics fine ballast, buidlings (some of which re-used on Keadue) were mainly assembled with Wills materials sheets and some almost, but not quite complete! Layout supposedly a branch off the Meath LIne from Dunboyne westwards through Summerhill towards Ballivor or Devlin though Castleross may be close enough somewhere in Meath/Westmeath. Did not get far with the foreground scenic works.

While locos and stock ran ok on plain track and turnouts, they did not like the double slip that forms part of the crossover from mainline to loop and sidings. Though proved a useful test bed for locos I built before I moved to Scotland in 93 and more of less abandoned the layout!  Ironically I ran into the same problem trying to build a pair of double slips on a 21mm gauge layout over 20 years later.

Meanwhile I began collecting N Scale American outline locos and stock in the late 80s but did not attempt a layout until I had returned to Ireland almost 10 years later. In the mean time I had collected books on railroads in the North East and regularly subscribed to the Model Railroader and its planning Annuals and visited the North East on a railfanning trip during the late 90s, so I had definitely fallen under the influence.

American N Scale looped 8 with almost 'Surround Staging" in a 17'6" x 8' loft 2000-2004.

One of my more successful layouts, I had started a 4mm 21mm layout based on Ballymoe in this loft before I moved to the UK in 86 and decided that N Scale would be a better option to get 'something running quickly" while working on my 4mm Irish & UK interests in my workshop(spare bedroom). The  combination of a looped 8 track track plan in combination with the staging behind the scenic section was appealing both in terms of a decent length of run (two loops to complete a full circuit of the layout) and a decent train length.

Earlier I had established workable train lengths using a temporary test track on boards at purlin height and decided on a maximum train length of 15-40-50' cars hauled by a consist of between 2-4 diesel locos although 50 cars turned out to be the maximum load. 

I settled on a system of permanent/fixed baseboards and track for the staging/hidden track (blue on diagram) with modular scenic sections based on the N-Trak concept (single main line DCC) as oNe-Trak modules in articles appeared far more realistic than the standard NTRAK modules. The downside was my initial Binghampton modules had more than one track and that I was unable to fit two 4' modules in the workshop so settled on two non-standard 3-6" modules for the initial sections originally built as a self contained layout.

Trackwork on the scenic boards were laid in Peco Code 55 and ballasted with Woodlands scenics ballast, hidden trackwork and staging laid in standard Peco Code 80 unballasted some salvaged from an early 80s layout.

Although a large section of the layout appeared to be double track it was actually operated as two parallel single lines! The staging tracks were each capable of handling two complete trains, the section with the small Town (Depot/station) and Viaduct was basically purely scenic and to maximise the length of run between the staging and main yard, 5 actual minutes at a reasonable speed.

I dismantled the layout before moving to New Zealand in 2004, disposing of the scenic module and retaining the Binghampton modules which I later re-erected in our home in Auckland.

Scenic basebards were mainly open frame construction in ply (surplus from work) and were strong, light in contrast to my eralier efforts in chipboard!

I paid a lot of attention to avoiding the 'table top' effect achieving Z with scenery extending both above and below the track and trying to achieve a realistic view point

 

Auckland 24'X12' American N Scale 2006-7

I was lucky for a short while to have a 24' X 12' space available for a layout in Auckland before a move to the Waikato with a much smaller garage, but a bigger garden but thats another story.

 

 As luck would have it I got a reasonable amount of work started in its new home after converting the garage to a layout room workshop.

The main change was the additional space allowed the layout to be re-configured as an "American walk around" style layout with a central peninsula. Work was mainly concentrated on ammending the staging and Binghampton Yard areas, installing the staging at a lower level that the yard, extending the yard with an additional 4' module. The main-line was just roughed in temporarily to get trains running (I had recently bought a pair of Kato Genesis P42 diesels and a set of Superliner Passenger Cars!) and a pair of PA1s. Only permanent track laid was part of a reverse loop at low level using brand new Code 80 track! (intended to be hidden)

DCC control had advanced since leaving Ireland, I introduced a CTC Panel and route setting between the staging and the main yard, though the temporary main line was still 'dark territory'

 

 

Edited January 24 by Mayner

[Mayner]

Following our 2007 move to the Waikato I initially focused on getting a garden railway up and running 'quickly' while in the medium term to renovate/convert our garage into a workshop/railway room for a 4mm Irish outline "Burma Road" layout. While we got the garden railway up and running and completed the conversion of the garage into a railway workshop railway room within a reasonable timeframe, I still havent't started work on the 4mm layout, if I ever get around to it,  although I set up the baseboard framing over 10 years ago.

4mm Irish outline layout. 

Its possible that I may start work on the layout at some stage this year, in a way I have already taken the first steps this year in clearing some of the junk that accumulated on the baseboards over the past 10 years and resuming work on a 21mm gauge 52 & 101 Class intended to operate on the layout, Kiltimagh signal cabin was assembled from a set of parts commissioned from Yorkmodel making several years ago and I have sets of custom etched parts and Wills Material sheets in stock for the station buildings, together with rail and sleepers and  even Tortoise point motors I had in stock for over 20 years!

Garden railway

While the garden railway operates in a significantly larger space (26mx18m) the basic track layout and operating pattern is not a lot different to my Irish outline N gauge layout of the early 80s end to end from hidden staging to a terminus with an intermediate depot/station with crossing loop and junction. Although the layout is capable (just about) of handling a 15 Car (bogie) freight train trains generally load to a maximum of 7 Cars (approx 14 4wheelers) not a lot different to my N Gauge Irish outline layout of the early 80s.

Main challenge for the forseeable future with the garden railway is maintaining/renewing sections of the track bed after almost 20 years exposure to humid Waikato conditions, though I am beginning to catch up on defferred maintenance and possibly in the long term source a replacement for K27 #464 preferribly before she disintegrates!

While I seemed to go through periods of rapidly building successful layouts during the early 80s early & late 2000s my rate of progress tendes to be much more protracted particularly 4mm Irish Outline layout building, possibly because I have not found the classical branch line terminus-fiddle yard layout operationally satisfying.

I originally started work on my Cavan & Leitrim inspired layout Keadue (7'6"X1' shelf) 'to get something running quickly" in a spare room shortly after we migrated to New Zealand in 2004, but quickly lost interest concentrating instead on converting our garage into a railway room and starting work on a large American style 'walk-around' layout initially in O-n30 before deciding to focus on American N and incorporating the existing "Irish' modules into the new layout. O-n30 although a compromise scale was too-overwhelming for the style of mountain layout I intended.

Keadue was resurrected several years as a 9'X6' L shaped shelf layout in our home office motivated in part by 'layout visits' during Model Railway (Garden & National) Conventions hosted in our region and the layout as an Home Office/Guest Bedroom diorama.  We had approx 180 people visited our railways during a 2-3 day period in connection with the 2014 New Zealand National Model Railway Convention. We experienced heavy rain during the convention and Keadue and a variety of models were set up in the garage in case we ware rained off in the garden.

 

I had originally began collecting/assembling suitable locos and rolling stock as they became available during the early-mid 1990s and Bemo HOm track before our move to NZ, I originally intended to build a layout based on Drumshanbo, but settled on a layout set in Keadue on proposed extensions of the  C&L from Arigna to Boyle and even Sligo! The Drumshanbo track layout did not fit into the available space and the station building complete with its 1917? two storey extension overwhelmed the scene, the station building is modelled on the drawing in Padraig Flannigan's C&L book, loco shed based on Dromad, Goods Store Belturbet all in Wills coursed stonework, background buildings in Wills 'cement render' sheets based on buildings in Counties Roscommon and Westmeath

While Keadue is reasonably presentable I have done little work and seldom operated the layout in recent years, though I hope to tidy up (dust the layout) and carry out further detailing scenic work during the next years or so to maintain interest.

The Timesaver.

Mainly intended as a replacement for a series of attempted Irish and American outline layouts on the other two walls of our Home Office East Dock/North Wharf was originally conceived  in 2021 as a "Timesaver" as minimum space self contained shunting/switching layout and as a showcase for my JM Design range of 3D Printed wagons.

Initially set as a 6'X1' footprint switching/shunting puzzle, I later added a 1'10" traverser/staging as I disliked the self contained nature of the puzzle, I needed trains (shortish) to arrive from and depart to somewhere.

I would have preferred a longer staging but restricted to 1'10"in the available space, largest usable diesel is a Bo Bo (B121) due to problems with buffer locing with larger locos (001 Class). I have had little time to work on the layout during the past couple of years, though planning to add a short (loco length) extension at one end of the station to allow arriving locos (track 1 ) pull up clear of the traverser so that5 wagon trains (incl Brake) can arrive in the staging and finally complete the buildings and structures, I started the redbrick tower building and malting from Grand Canal Dock  12-14 years ago.

I guess the main lesson for me now in my late 60s is to try get on with and finish the projects/layouts I have planned/started because we cannot predict whether we will be around long enough to finish them.

[Horsetan]

2 hours ago, Mayner said:

.... my rate of progress tends to be much more protracted particularly 4mm Irish Outline layout building, possibly because I have not found the classical branch line terminus-fiddle yard layout operationally satisfying.....

A possible solution might be FREMO-21, but that would need other modellers in NZ to have a sudden fascination for building Irish models in 21mm gauge. I was much taken with the FREMO idea because, when everyone gets their modules together, the trains actually travel to other places on the assembled network through a variety of scenery. The Burma Road, being single-line, would be a good fit for FREMO-21.

[Mayner]

14 hours ago, Horsetan said:

A possible solution might be FREMO-21, but that would need other modellers in NZ to have a sudden fascination for building Irish models in 21mm gauge. I was much taken with the FREMO idea because, when everyone gets their modules together, the trains actually travel to other places on the assembled network through a variety of scenery. The Burma Road, being single-line, would be a good fit for FREMO-21.

I have become a bit of a loan wolf in recent years and not sure if I would inspire Kiwi modellers to take up Irish 21mm gauge modelling.

In certain respectsI probabably would have achieved more if I have followed Richard Chown's and David Walker's example and worked in 7mm on 36.5 mm track rather than in 4mm when I started building Irish outline models. At the time everything would have had to be scratchbuilt anyway and working in 7mm would allowed me to hone my scratchbuilding skills and helped to avoid getting distracted collecting and assembling kits and later rtr models that were not strictly relevant to my interest in the MGW and more recently the Burma Rd during the steam era.

Richard Chown's Castlerackrent evolved into a single track modular system capable of being exhibited in a number of different configurations, David Walkers Killanney layout (exhibited at the Chatham Show) apparrently was capable of operation with the Castle Rackrent System. Interestingly the One Track Minds group on the South Island exhibited a number of Sn3 layouts with realistically modelled NZ scenery, buildings and structures at exhibitions 15 or so years ago.

FREMO-21 would appear to be an excellent option for Irish Outline modellers in Ireland or the UK intending to experiment in 21mm gauge, a series of plain single track modules, fed by cassette, sector plate or traverser storage and could potentially allow modellers using different wheel and track standards to share a modular layout.