CIE Carriage Liveries - The Green Era

[Mol_PMB]

In this thread I will attempt to describe and illustrate the green carriage liveries applied by CIE in the 1945 to 1961 period, and which could still be seen in the mid-1960s. This will also include a brief foray into 'silver' carriage liveries which form a key part of the story too.

This is a complex subject and there is inconsistency between published sources and personal recollections. It is made more difficult because colour photographs of Irish trains in the 1940s and early 1950s are scarce, and remain uncommon into the late 1950s. Additionally, early colour films had variable sensitivity to shades of green, and many slides have deteriorated over the past 75 years. So this is a bit of a minefield and I can't promise that what I put in this thread is entirely correct. But I've done my best to cross-reference between photos, contemporary written sources (e.g. IRRS Journals, Irish Railfans News), and subsequent writings on the topic. Some preserved rolling stock with original paintwork, and some of Fry's O gauge models which were made in the 1950s, also provide useful references to colour. There is also some film and video evidence although most amateur colour film of the period is rather poor quality.

 

Before we even get to the liveries, I'd like to take an overview of the carriages in service during this period. In fact, I've analysed 1945 through to 1972, the end date being dictated by changes in the way that CIE reported their rolling stock statistics. 1972 was also the start of major changes in the fleet, with the introduction of the air-conditioned Mk2 stock and the BR heating vans, and large-scale conversion programmes of composites into bogie vans, railcars into push-pull sets etc.

I have been analysing the CIE carriage registers from 1942, 1946, 1953, 1961, 1969, later stockbooks and some listings of GNR carriages too. Thanks to all who have helped in the provision of this input data. By listing each vehicle and the years it was in traffic I have produced the colourful graph below.

You will note that I have split the fleet into:

• Coaches (passenger carrying, including dining cars etc)
• Vans (full brakes, travelling post offices etc)
• Railcars 

I have also split the bogie vehicles from the ~30' vehicles (mostly 6-wheelers, some 4-wheelers)

Other non-passenger carrying coaching stock such as horseboxes and carriage trucks have been excluded from the analysis.

Narrow gauge stock is also excluded.

I have also shown the origin of the vehicles:

• Pre-1925 (all GSR constituents) - blue
• Introduced by GSR 1925-1945 - red
• Introduced by CIE from 1945 - green
• Inherited from GNR (I have counted these from 1959 onwards irrespective of build date) - brown
• CIE and ex-GNR Railcars are all grouped together - yellow

So, what do we see here?

In the late 1940s, still in the after-effects of the 'Emergency' with shortages of fuel and materials meaning a skeleton train service and no money for new rolling stock. This was pre-nationalisation CIE. There seems to have been a cull of old carriages (mostly 30') around 1949.

CIE was nationalised in 1950 and more money became available, but with demands for improved efficiency. A fleet of diesel railcars was ordered and a carriage construction programme was begun. Material shortages remained a real problem, as did industrial action. New carriage construction was badly affected and proceeded slowly, and import of the new railcars was also blocked by striking workers. Things got better in 1953/4 and production rates increased. Delivery of new railcars and carriages allowed another cull of pre-1925 stock in the mid-1950s.

In October 1958, the GNR was split with half of the rolling stock going to CIE (since it was late in the year I've shown this in the 1959 figures). However, the UTA was prompt in closing down most of the ex-GNR network making much of the inherited rolling stock redundant. About half the ex-GNR coaches were withdrawn in 1960. Those remaining mostly dated from the 1930s, 1940s and of course the 1950s railcars (these are plotted in the yellow railcar category). 

Meanwhile, CIE also pruned its network in the late 1950s and early 1960s, and this enabled most of the pre-1925 stock to be eliminated. 

1961 was the last year that the green livery was applied, for the black and tan scheme was introduced in late 1961. The total number of carriages in 1961 was almost identical to the total a decade earlier. In 1951, only 12% of the fleet was built post-1925. But in 1961, 76% was post-1925 and 57% was built post-1950.

So the story of the green livery includes both new-builds and repaints. During this period, there were times when the same livery was applied to both categories, and other times when new-builds had a different livery from repaints of older stock. 

I have identified several versions of the green livery that were applied to many carriages, but there were other variants which were short-lived, experimental, or applied locally. You will find that there's a lot more to it than just 'Dark Green' and 'Light Green'. It's a complex story and I'm afraid I can't fully explain everything. But I'll try to present a coherent story that fits with the documentary and photographic evidence that I have reviewed. This will be a slow-burning thread as I am still working through some aspects of the research.

 

P.S. As a sense-check of my carriage analysis, I compared the annual totals I have calculated from the carriage registers against those reported in the CIE annual reports published from 1951. This isn't a perfect match and I understand some of the reasons why. I won't bore you with those details, but for the purposes of a statistical overview I'm not far off:

 

[Mol_PMB]

A little more preamble before we get to the actual liveries.

In GB in the 1920s to 1950s period, a carriage repainting interval of about 7 years was common - this was the standard used by the LMS and GWR. The SR had a policy of using a light rub-down and re-varnish rather than a full repaint, where the condition of the paintwork permitted. The LNER just used varnish on their teak stock, of course.

7 years was only ever a nominal interval, and premier high-mileage coaches might get repainted more frequently while those on a sleepy branch line might stay away from the paintshop for longer. External influences such as wartime paint/labour shortages might extend the painting interval. On the other hand, a new company name, brand or livery might be accompanied by a campaign of repaints giving a shorter interval. Considering such variations, 5-10 years painting interval would account for the vast majority, and my impression is that this would be true for CIE in the 1940s to 1960s period. Some of the documents in the IRRS Archives include details of the number of overhauls and repaints carried out at Inchicore each period, and with further analysis it may be possible to confirm the typical painting interval.

Of course, there were exceptions, such as:

• Vehicles that were modified, or repaired after accident damage, might get a partial repaint in their existing scheme even if it was outdated, or they might get an early paint job in a new scheme.
• I don't know if CIE ever adopted the 'light rub-down and re-varnish' approach, but if so this could prolong the life of an outdated livery.
• Some 'special' coaches were repainted more often - State coach 351 carried 4 different liveries in as many years in the early 1960s!

So, once a particular livery had been replaced with a new one, we would expect that the outdated livery would still be seen in traffic for about 7 years, gradually becoming scarcer until it disappeared entirely. 

 

When we see a dated photograph of a freshly-painted carriage, it's very good evidence, although we must remember that the same paint can look different depending on the undercoat, method of application, lighting conditions and the surrounding colours.

But when looking at photos of carriages that have been in traffic for some years, their appearance, colour and glossiness will have been influenced by weathering including dirt from loco exhaust or brake dust, reaction with chemicals in the atmosphere or those used for carriage cleaning, physical wear or fading from the sunshine. 

And that's even before we start to think about the sensitivity of the film to different colour shades, or how it has deteriorated over 75 years. Or indeed our individual perception of colours.

 

Nevertheless there are clues, and by studying enough sources including contemporary documents the data starts to add up. In particular, some of the paint colour changes were accompanied by a change in the style of lettering or lining, and this can be determined even when the paint is weathered or the photo is monochrome. Here's a super photo from Ernie dated July 1955, illustrating some of the green livery variants.

The 4th coach, an old GSWR vehicle, carries the first CIE livery used from 1945 to about 1950/1, dark green with 2 broad bands of eau-de-nil and fine black/white lining, 2 snails, and 1/3 class digits on the doors.

The 2nd and 5th coaches are fairly new, built by CIE in 1952, and they carry the 1950-1953 plain dark green livery with no lining or snails, and class digits 1 only. This green is sometimes described as 'bottle green', or 'dark bottle green' and may have been the same colour as the 1945 dark green. The 3rd coach, a GSWR mail van, has been repainted into the same livery.

The 1st and 6th coaches carry a lighter shade of green, with a fine eau-de-nil waist line. No snails, and no class digits on the standard class doors (still third class at the time of the photo, but shortly to become second). The 1st coach looks quite freshly repainted, and the 6th coach is almost new. They may be in the shade known as 'brilliant green'. The mid-1950s saw some experimentation with lighter green shades before what became the standard 'light green' was chosen. This period is the most challenging to research and one of the most controversial!

This photo pre-dates the final iteration of the light green livery.

 

In due course I will describe and illustrate the evolution of these different green liveries, and others, in much more detail.

There are very few colour photos of CIE carriages prior to 1956. If only the photographer of the image above had some colour film...

Fortunately, Ernie and the IRRS do have some nice colour images from the 1950s, and there are a few in the Colour-Rail collection as well as in various publications. I've been searching out photos which show multiple shades of green in one photo as this helps to eliminate some of the unknown variables.

[jhb171achill]

Superb stuff, Mol!

[Mol_PMB]

When I wrote the previous post I thought I had come across some information on carriage overhauls in the IRRS Archives last week. I've been gradually cataloguing all the documents I photographed on that frenzied Tuesday evening, and I have found several documents with relevant information.

In July 1950, in a discussion about conversion of carriages from electric to gas lighting, J.J.Johnston (assistant CME) stated that 94 carriages had received a general repair (G.R.) between 1/1/1949 and 28/2/1950, which equates to 80.5 per year. In 1950 there were 815 coaches in the fleet so this would indicate an average 10-year interval for general repairs, which is quite long but may be indicative of the shortage of money and materials at this time. One would expect that that a carriage would be repainted at G.R., but additional vehicles may have been repainted without receiving a G.R. and this would shorten the average interval of repainting.

In January 1961, a budgetary control statement gives details of the quantity of general repairs budgeted for, and those actually carried out:

Adding together the different types of coaching stock listed, the budget was for 90 vehicles and the actual number receiving general repairs and repaints was 101.

I assume this is for 12 months, but it's possible that the heading 'programme to date' indicates the financial year, starting on 1st April 1960 and in that case the figures quoted in January 1961 represent 9 months. In the latter case, the equivalent annual total would be 135. 

In 1961 there were 824 coaches so the repair interval would be 8 years or 6 years depending on whether the report covers 12 or 9 months.

Fourteen buffet cars were introduced in 1953/54, with four more in 1956. Thirteen of them received general repairs in 1960/61 when the majority would have been 7 years old. 

So I think this evidence tends to support carriages receiving a General Repair interval of about 7 years. I'm sure the vehicles would have been repainted at G.R. but in some cases additional repaints might have been carried out between G.R. especially when new liveries were being introduced. The influence of new-build stock should also be considered - this would appear in the new livery without being in the maintenance records, replacing older coaches withdrawn probably without a recent repaint.

 

One other snippet from the article 'Modern CIE Coaching Stock' by G. Kennedy, published in IRRS Journal 37, 1965:

"Drab the bottle green may have been, but as late as 1957 some of the 1951 compos were observed looking little the worse for their long absence from the paint-shop." 

In other words, the new stock introduced in 1951 was still carrying its original paint job 6 years later.

 

Going back to the budgetary control statement, the railcars were mostly delivered in 1953/54, and it's notable that 26 of these received body general repairs, with a further two receiving a 'paint and trim' repair. Again, these would have been 7 years old in 1960/61.

However, I should also note that the railcars had more frequent repairs to their engines, transmission and bogies. In the archives there are some quite detailed records from the 1950s of which railcars received mechanical / general repairs, when and why. Poor availability for service seems to have encouraged this detailed assessment. The railcars also had more than their fair share of collisions and fire damage which required bodywork repairs and a full or partial repaint. I have not yet fully analysed this data and I may need to revisit that file in the archives.

 

Sorry, I'm on still on statistics and haven't got to paint shades yet!

But this stuff is important when we start to look at the livery changes and how long old liveries may have persisted in service after they had been superseded in the paint shop.