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CIE coach livery in the late 1950s

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David Holman
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Those of you following my workshop thread on new 6w coaches will know I have a bit of a problem with their livery.

One or two folk have rightly said that the dark green [Ford Laurel green] I have used is too dark. Having checked my three Irish colour books, can only concur. My own fault - should have checked first! However, it will be a real issue to correct & I'd prefer not to add more layers of paint if I can avoid it. So, is there a way out?

Have posted two pics showing the Alphagraphix card kits [bit more of a medium green than mine], the Tryconnel kit box [definitely darker]. There is also one in Locomotive Compendium of Ireland [boocock] album showing two six wheelers of a somewhat darker hue than the faded versions in most other photos. The question is - can I legitimately get away without a full repaint?

I will be sooooo grateful for any excuses not too!DSCN1333.jpg

DSCN1332.jpg

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The Tyrconnell version is completely wrong on many counts. The numerals are Southern Railway (England); and the green is closer to that than anything that ever ran this side of the sea. The roof on their coach is white, completely wrong for CIE, which should be black - how much more wrong can that be! The chassis side is green - again, no coach was ever painted that way by CIE - black is the colour, as Christy Moore might say. (or sing). They have black ends and footboards - the only correct details on their picture. As a result, an otherwise absolutely superb looking model - and one long overdue - looks like something off the Isle of Wight Railway.

 

The other shade of pea green on their printed coach sides appears to have white lining and logo - both wrong, as is the lack of thin gold lining on the snail and (what should be eau-de-nil) lining.

 

It's a shame when a manufacturer gets so completely wrong the most basic of details about any model - what it looked like.

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A case of 'apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the show?'...

 

If only I'd checked my photos first. Good job I'm currently occupied with the G2. A good sulk and pout may be in order!

 

Equally, I'd much rather know than find it is wrong later. Comment from JHB and the rest of you are always much appreciated.

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The roof on their coach is white, completely wrong for CIE, which should be black - how much more wrong can that be!

What about green roofed CIE stock in the 1950's?

A quote from January 1959 Irish Railfans News:

"A number of diesel railcars which have recently been repainted have been noted with roofs painted black instead of the former shade of dark green which conformed with their side panelling. This trend has also appeared in repainted coaching stock as Buffet car 2420 and Compo 2145 are in traffic with black roofs".

One of the two Tom Ferris colour books has a railcar which clearly has a green roof, but other stock is elusive enough to identify, especially in black and white photos!

Edited by BSGSV
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The "green-roofed" items were confined entirely to the railcar world, and the description is actually misleading. It was just the front part of the roof, ie the curved bit, which was green, and in at least one example which I saw photographed in West Cork, there were stripes on this green patch which looked to me to possibly be pale yellow.

 

I would be extremely doubtful if any dining car had any green on its roof.

 

West Clare railcars were an exception to normal rules. Both the dark green and the later lighter green were carried; in neither case was there either "snail" or lining of any kind. In some cases these had all-black roofs, in others all-green.

 

If any 5' 3" gauge vehicle ever had a completely green roof, it would have been an extremely short lived one-off experiment, a bit like the one "A" class which for a very short time had an orange, instead of red, buffer beam. In such a case, they were possibly vehicles included in a railcar set.

 

In 1959, some railcars still wore the dark green, and would have been undergoing repainting into the lighter green. This is when the amendments you mention would have taken place.

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I must say that I too was somewhat surprised when I read the IRN snippet the first time.

Having been on the lookout since for the green roof, I can't say that I think I've seen too many in photos. Mind, I can't say I've seen too many black ones either! Mid to dark grey, depending on the wear, seems more common. A typical example:

https://www.facebook.com/IrishTractionGroup#!/photo.php?fbid=852344341443770&set=gm.370422766444421&type=1&theater

Note the second vehicle appears to be one of 2172-5 of 1961, a type which otherwise seem to be rarely photographed, possibly because first class was abolished on the Dublin Suburban not too many years later, and the carriages were later rebuilt as brake standards. But to my eyes it has a grey roof, as has the heating van.

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They certainly do look grey, BSGSV. I think the leading one is just weathered, and thus did make prime black look greyish. But as you say, the next one and the van look grey.

 

It's possible a few were done like that, but also possible it's weathering. Certainly, black was the official version.

 

In model making, roofs can take on all manner of weathered characteristics. Look at how many CDRJC and GNR locos appear to have black domes; all were painted red! (or blue). In recent timed, orange-painted loco and coach roofs often looked dirty. Equally, nice shiny black hot dumbed down pretty quick.

 

Green CIE roofs - no. Above black / grey - for me, I'd say the jury's out!

 

Interesting.

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