Railyard, layout

[WaYSidE]

Hi,

Welcome to RailYard, my first venture into model rail, maybe better described as fantasy 'off the rail' modelling by one who never soldered, can just about wire a plug and who knows as much about Irish rail as could fit in the head of one of those wee men standing at model stations.

I started in 2016 with no modelling experience, I first saw Murphy Models Locos when santa was getting the kids a boxed train set, in an instant I was 'captured' by the detail of the models, remembering back to my school days in the 70's onboard many trains in south Dublin.
At xmas we set up the new boxed set and the dog knocked the 0-6-0 train over on the carpet/floor track plan, we moved the set onto the table, where my one Murphy Model loco at high speed took flight in full glorious sound.

TO VIEW THIS LAYOUT PLAN - PLEASE DOUBLE CLICK TO OPEN AND THEN USE ZOOM FACILITY

This track plan needs a a few adjustments to exactly match that which is now laid out, -it almost represents everything in the right order,

 

So to the internet I went.  To research and discover the world of model rail and simply got more confused, but enjoyed the videos..

Determined to figure it out for myself I started on the steep learning curve, with the aim of building a family centered model rail, and slower trains,  have learnt the basics and we have managed to run 6 trains at once since then.  My advice to newbees, wait until batterer y operated DCC arrives, then invest..

As a warning to other beginners, I will make it my mission to discuss the internets' bad advice about many aspects of modelling as i progress, if I progress?,

Topics such as Bus wiring or the absence of online posts about 'over the base board' feeder wiring?, or the bad online info about insulfrogs versus electrofrogs, or designing model rail for children or track occupancy which is where I am at now in the layout, (2019) .

I dont think ye modellers will like what I am doing judging by the comments I see about IRM blogs, but then again I keep seeing the words “its your own layout do what you will”.  I do...and I will.
For instance, I use sand in places instead of cork board or track underlay, thats a topic I will explore in later uploads.

I am building a system to run trains, we went against all good advice and decide to lay more track and have far less scenery, because running trains around and around is easy, we dont want children decoupling models and breaking rakes, climbing over scenery, and anyway 95% of all the prototype track near us is in open countryside so much of my modelling will be mainly greenery bar stations and some features such as old cottages and engine sheds, the kids want a rocket launcher.

The layout so far, is about 150m of double crossed looped track and a few end to end routes within, a few engine sheds, all in a small attic.  of which 100m is A line up and B line Down. I have spent two years research and have only mid winter to build. and even then time is limited,

The layout just fits 3 x 8x4 boards (added on to make 9x5's) with an extra few meter runs both sides in holes in walls into more small side attics -adding a few more meters in hard to get to spaces,

2 levels are built, 3^rd is planned (with code 100, a wee bit of code 75 and electrofrogs on the adult section of track), a mid level reverse loop is also planned

The already constructed section is mostly peco-100 OO guage track, A star shape bus wire, 2.5 and 1.5 twisted bus, most is divided into power div' block wiring with two-rail isolated gaps,

7 metres = longest Bus runs including track, . far too many insulfrogs (many will be DCC contrled, others manual) , part of level 2 and most of level 3 will be electrofrog - mainly for the most expensive locos and best wagons,  for the adults, as those sections will be at my height, when ever, that is I can get to build those sections.

Unusually.. i think, but for good reason, 80% of layout is wired above baseboard, as the base is 50cm from floor, due to low angled attic ceilings and the many children who will use the layout.. i kept it low to their height.

Electricity DCC and Power, while I understand 'booster divs and'  'power divisions' and the difference circuit breakers add to blocks, i am getting bogged down in track occupancy during winter 2019, i have been advised to go to RM web. I am in touch with James in DCCtrainautomation, I would dearly like to meet up with Irish modellers who are doing detection and occupancy.

As I say I have kids and designed it so there are manual turnouts, mainly close to the front edge so they could learn how they work, and how to operate them. see the track plan for the groups of turnouts placed close together, this allows me to isolate many of the other turnouts within separate power division groups ready to attach all the circuit breakers.

We had a hornby select, to start, but now that we have run trains and more, we have moved to Z21 and have great fun with it, got to run six trains at once, round and around for ages with two children, no crashes or derailments. but there are crashes.. lucky its with the LImas.

Design Advice:  Get paper before software and sketch it all out, sure it will change, but paper is far quicker, i used about 20 plans before i got a plan that worked for us, then i laid it out with track, to check the trains running, In the early designs a loco would go all around, but then end up not in the right direction if it went a certain way, it took months to figure how to introduce a reverse loop track to solve the problem.

Above , west side, note the very tight space under the ceiling slope, the green insulated foil backed foam is sound barrier , made job very easy and disappears after ballasting , i have since reduced the three inner rising tracks to one rising track, a reverse loop

 

below, the ballast is just finished and still wet

above, PVA on sand covered with ballast, with plastic to protect the tracks, this is what I call the base board ballast, laid out for finishing some time in the future.

 

After it dries, some more ballast is added for effect, black is coal dust, red for bauxite,

 

below shows lower and upper level with coaches, base

 

below is old shot before upper level was finished, but taken on tab with better camera..

 

below...shows  rising track  into hidden attic,

.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by WaYSidE
spelling and edit

[WaYSidE]

Two more pic, after first attempt at ballast in with washed sand, fire ash, a scatter of ballast n tiny weed seeds from dust in the combine harvester.

It's my first attempts,, never done any of this before.

Southwest corner. In such confined space, I have to work from outside walls back into middle .

My plan is to rough ballast everything on outside mainlines, as it's hard to get back into those spaces.......

 

[WaYSidE]

Track plan march 2019

After months of research, design, planning, testing, and Scarm track planner,  I decided to ignore certain 'must dos' recommended in the model rail world as the attic space i have has a low apex ceiling and required an alternative to the standard height for base boards and dropper wiring.

If my layout was to fit, my lowest level baseboard would have to be 50cm off the floor. I had no intention of crawling under base boards to wire the 250 different pieces of track all of which have wires attached. And just as well, for i discovered something that newbees will be very interested to hear, above the board wiring is far more flexible and forgiving as you build, especially in difficult to reach places. For when I wired my mid and upper levels, i used tradition feeders dropping through the base board, which meant no room for mistakes, they were unforgiving and newbees make lots of mistakes.

after building the track i then used Itrain for the layout below.

Railyard is a twice runaround folded dogbone continuous loop on 3 levels with lapped and passing siding type features that also act as storage and branch lines. There's two main stations and one branch and a spur to a rocket launcher for the 8 years old.
To-date, 70% of track is laid.
I added extra crossovers to insure trains just cant be run at the same speed all the time, so the children will need to drive them to avoid crashing.

I also enjoyed driving over dodgy laid tracks, such as a bord na mona bog train would, so some of the layout (5%) needs very careful driving skills,

Kaydee couplers wont work well on my layout, due to the bumps,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Baseboards, 9x5, 9x5.5 connected in middle with 4 x 6 = basic shape |_| ad a mainline track on the outside.

Built for children and adults in a small attic space of 16'x10' (4.87m x 3.4m), excluding a few breakouts through the low ceilings into sub attic space, RailYard has well over 100 metres of code 100 track.
The layout has a one continuous outer main line, that folds back on itself: out/up and down/back, mainly as as two lanes with the end a folding section creating four lanes in some parts,
The upper levels when built will have the more prototypical one main line and siding.
The layout has an inner goods line, a few small spurs, 2 engine yards and 1 small short yard for coach rakes and a continuous hidden long track for 'first in first out'  storage,
Grades include 1cm and 2cm per 1m
In time I plan to build a 3 lane fiddle yard and a viaduct.
The aim with designing for young children is that there is enough track that no loco or carriage needs to be lifted off the track, to reduce handling, therefore once a rake is constructed it will not be deconstructed unless its Lima models, which are more robust.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by WaYSidE

[WaYSidE]

Musing of a newbe,

I choose the name WaySide cos i new I had to approach my layout in a very unconventional way to get an unconventional track plan to work for young children in a tight space, i had to learn about all the rules of modelling then break some rules and no doubt upset experienced modellers.

but hell, i build a successful business breaking every rule in the book, so what the heck and if and when i retire, i will have a huge work space up the garden to fill with trains if i still into it in ten years.  indeed its on the same level as this room, so the train can run from here up to the shed, if I win the lotto!.

Ignore the end off cut pic on wall, it will be covered by trees at the mouth of a tunnel, going into the false or hidden attic

 

 

The hidden attic where the first and second level tracks have extra room to rise at 2% in a wide gentle arc. Yip i have to crawl over the layout to get in to build and clean track, done it so many times, that i have made it so I don't interfere with track. The landscape (pathway to hidden attic) is the green carpet under the soldering iron, thats where i have to crawl over. (suppose that will never get permanent modelling built on that section).

I designed it so there is just three straight tracks near the doorway, as that its not going to get damaged if i do hit it, or have to walk on it. I also avoided having turnout bang smack in the middle of the walkway. there placed to both sides. The coffee jar on its side marks the 2nd level reverse loop, where its broken through the old ceiling. could be a long time before thats built as i only have winter to work, being a farmer and contractor.

Its not that the attic gets hot in summer, , as the inner room is well insulated, the outter roof and sky light will get hot, so i took measures to insulate it and vent it as I plan to store my longest rakes in there on the track.

Its easy to say, I should have done this, or do this or do that, but working in confined spaces in an small attic is not an easy job,

 

This section on the 3rd level, will be a station, its one of the few places where the feeder wires are go through and under the baseboard

 its great for storing the different types of stock required for testing track while i work in other places on the layout, usually Lima models,

strangely it a subject thats never discussed in online advice given to newbes, ie, when building in confined spaces,  under eves and tight corners, its great to have cheap stock ready n close by to test tracks.  When all is done, then i give the Murphy Models a run,  way at the far end is the other side attic, the hidden track is 7 m loop at present.

the track plan in the two hidden attics is not to scale so it fits on my laptop screen.

 

another real problem when your sprawled out over the base board under those low ceilings in tight corners is accessing tools, they have to be around you within reach, so i built the track, starting with the furthest away corners, started with the A mainline up, and B main down, started close to the outer walls, and worked inwards.  theres two loop sections on the track plan that are now redundant lines, as i needed them for testing tracks as i build the layout, but dont need them now,  I suppose they are disused lines, very prototypical ! I was going to tare them up, but decided against it and will use them as sidings and storage tracks. and they will serve the kids well as that will keep their models to the lowest levels all within reach.

[WaYSidE]

More, wiring the engine shed, the feeders go under the sand on top of base board.

I really got going in Winter 2017, the design took two years to test and quite a bit of time Scarm railroad track planning which when i laid it out just didnt suit or run well, so i put heaps of time into laying the track freehand and abandoned the track plan.
Knowing absolutely nothing about model rail, I had to imagine how the trains will travel, how they will operate, how many trains I want to have running at the same time without having to worry about crashes, especially over crossings. As the track was over an uneven surface, i started using sand to level the tracks.
The design for children is based on the requirement for Not handling the models, so continuous running and having all trains on the track at all time so the kids would not lift the models of the rails,

Next was the bus, once i got that sorted to a point, i stopped on the bus and plan to tidy it up only after all locos, all carriages and wagons are tested, just in case i have to tare stuff up again.

On an American web site I read about what not to do, and some stuff you can do, including selective compression, say compressing 200 miles of the same scenery into 2 or three feet of landscape, says i 'why not selective compressed time'' ? events over time for different eras, as long as they are small, different parts of the layout can be different eras allowing me to run just about anything

I decided that creating cameos of Irish landscapes and train history would be far more fun for the family than a fixed theme and as I had no modelling experience i didn't have the confidence to model a particular era or trainscape in the first place.  
My trains may run around Killiney bay in one corner, over Eskers in another, through Castlecomer coal yards, a bauxite mine somewhere else, and more ideas are developing.
Personally I think having vignettes of the Sallins bridge train robbery and the ammonia train crash would be fun, any interesting small scene found through out Ireland and down through history that will fit in a small section of the layout, such as the Harcourt street crash, well at least a steam loco sticking out of the wall at the end of one station! There are heaps of wee cameos that this family can model. So far, Its taken two winters to get the layout running, so as yet we are not concerned about scenery. Anyway there's not much room as we decided to go against the grain and fill much of the space with track.

 

Above the largest engine yard, much of this will be hidden by roof and an over head spur, marked in pink on the layout map.

What not to do! Overcoming bad design issues:
As well as not dropping feeders, or using conventional track underlay, my Benchwork is too wide, cos there's no crawl space to get under it, so I have designed layout to allow me to crawl over it hence the sand for stability, I can easily reach every corner to clean the tracks,  jes, cleaning track takes time, but when I finish the build I suspect it will greatly improve the time spent cleaning track, without damaging the track.

above, sand is spread, the wires are then pushed into the sand, below the finished ballast level. then diluted PVA at various strengths is poured.

 

No workspace! well limited work space, but I read somewhere to have no dust = keep the work space separate, so its downstairs

Limited operator space, the seating well, easily fits 3, and the staircase has a door over top so that the operators main space = 4, we had 5 people when I had 6 trains run with lots of carriages for the first time, theres not much space to move around each other

Not enough room for scenery, correct, but as kids and derailments meant climbing over stuff scenery will all be on the outer tracks and walls or if on layout will be mostly movable, anyway scenery will be last thing and we have a crazy plan to put handles on larger pieces, 'just lift the whole scene off'

Duplicate routes serving the same purpose, this was listed as a common error on many web sites, but my duplicate route serve as runarounds, passing sidings and storage yards for long trains.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by WaYSidE

[WaYSidE]

wiring connected and insulated, ready for point motor bases, and sand, the sand lifts the track, up over the wires and they disappear.

 

i just getting the hang of soldering, now that most of the layout is built. fat good that is...

the second smaller engine shed, this will be partially hidden behind a mid section line above this part , leading towards reversing loop.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by WaYSidE

[WaYSidE]

Time travel,   back in 2017, I realised I would have to design all the tracks and build the base of the basic scenery to see if it would fit, then number it n photograph it, then take it all up and wire the bus to the tracks,  the following photos show just that.. by 2018, I had enough basic landscape done to allow me to see the future. Which I promptly stored away n went back to laying track n bus wires.

By winter 2019, I had installed spot lighting and this changed everything, including allowing me to see into those dark corners.

Back in 2018, I rough built the viaduct, south west corner, the ply in front will be the mid section reverse loop, !! oh !! the hammer, like every good mechanic,  it's my essential modeling tool, great for cleaning the wheel of my most expensive models..

Above, North West corner, rough work landscape, this is all removed once it's places is decided, n the track is fixed n rough sanded, see other posts.

 

 

[merlinxlili]

Wayside, what an amazing piece of work! Well done so far! Please don't waste time in getting it at least partly operational, otherwise your bambinos will have grown and lost interest. I learned that the hard way. I would also make sure that all that sand is very well secured otherwise it will the gears, motors & wheel bearings on your locomotives and rolling stock. 

[WaYSidE]

7 hours ago, merlinxlili said:

Wayside, what an amazing piece of work! Well done so far! Please don't waste time in getting it at least partly operational, otherwise your bambinos will have grown and lost interest. I learned that the hard way. I would also make sure that all that sand is very well secured otherwise it will the gears, motors & wheel bearings on your locomotives and rolling stock. 

Hi merlinxlili, thanks,  yes i copped that when i started testing the locos, any loose sand can cause shorts or at least dirt build up, so i cover the tracks in low sticky low tack tape and only PVA the sand between the tracks, carefull just to catch very tip of both sides of sleepers, enough to hold it down.

when all that sets, hard, i come back , use track guage and drive trains and if all is good, then I run track guage again and fix the track sometimes with PVA, other places track nails, glue in very exacting spots. The screw and washer, works great to hold it all down.

[WaYSidE]

My forth winter constructing the 4.5 x 3 attic layout has resulted in breaking up the power blocks  into train detection or occupation blocks usually about 180 to 220 cm long, aiming to run rake sizes, circa 5 or 8 coaches and 14 to 22 wagons, which meant a re-design in parts, moving 3 turnouts so the occupation blocks, had space to fit trains.

I have been getting quality support and up to date qualified advice from 3 main sources, James in Dcctrainautomation, his latest Jan 2020 uploads include fab pics and screen shots, (which for someone who spent most of the winter trying to figure out the writings, the pics saved my life.) i had a section of the overall wiring plan wrong, but found out just in time.

see https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/blog/itrain-and-dr5000-and-block-control.html   as i hadnt started laying out cobalt ss point motors or switching. so i hadnt really started to learn about turnout motors, but i did need to understand the wiring in advance. so seeing James new uploads really helped.

The Digikeijs support forum is growing fast, not only for the  Digikeijs dr5000 command station but also for all accessories, and since i using dr4088Ln cs, i keep revisiting.   to check i have it correct, pity its a difficult to navigate blog  https://groups.io/g/Digikeijs

iTrain computer control, is fun, easy yet complex, and the support forum is a laugh, since few speak english, so you sorta have to be careful what you say and where you place stuff ,

https://www.berros.eu/itrain/forum/ but the Uk DCC blogger, on the iTrain forum called 'Lian' is a star, he explains stuff like few can and is very committed,  in print, drawing, photos and video, he chats with everyone stuck with Dcc train automation.    the Itrain product web is https://www.berros.eu/en/itrain/

You dont need proprietary products, its all free in JMRI open software arendino and rasberry. as i knew nothing i bought the stuff, but its not click and go unless you know how.

Screenshot shows lowest level finished and built but being rewired layout on Itrain screen. the bottom left end of track circles are links to the next tab, next screen shot, the 2nd and proposed third level, including  space for 10 track standing yard, as yet unbuilt.

Anyway, the layout on pc is now subdivided into more stations, to make the automation more interesting.. the real layout is undergoing serious re-wiring of many sections, I had to do this prior to hopefully installing turnout motors.  and figured out, just in time, that if i had to make blocks long enough to fit trains in a /entre/ occupied-break/stop-break subdivides of the power sections.  some more turnouts may have to move

  I started  up again in November, lucky i had notes from last winter, and ya know, i starting to learn stuff, so unlike last winters total struggle, i was able to start wiring the 80 possible blocks with confidence, and deal with what ever appears due to unseen possibilities.

Installing Dr4088Ln Cs Digikeijs  loconet current sensors is easy, yet posses huge problems for a newbee. We are told to twist long run bus wires, about radio interference within wide spaced pairs of wire, how two wires together cause transfer of data and interference. ... a red light went up and those poor wee model workmen in orange dayglow went back into there box,  halt all works

The wiring is not what it says on the box,   there can be a lot of wiring when using current sensors, luckily i now really enjoy wiring , a few years ago it was doing my head in.

where does the negitive blue of blue and brown pair go, ? if not back with all the single feeds to track,,?

Some blocks are 300cm  long in total thats 16 wires running to 1, 2 or 3, sectioned power blocks. (making up a power block of 3 sub blocks or sections,) and that could be 16 individual block or 5 x 3 sensor blocks 15+1= 16 inputs on Dr4088lncs, thats a lot of wire, and no where on the internet does it say twisted or not from track to dr4088lncs.. yes it talks about twisted buses everywhere else...

At as the common wire (-) is not returned to the dr4088lncs, then there are loads of places where I was running single long 1.5 wires and cursing the day I ever read about interference to misa's precious radio. i even started listening to internet modeltrain radio, to avoid interference, while doing hours of re-wiring i have to admit, this is highly unlike me, i am starting to act strange in relation to this train stuff and model rail radio. as i have no power connected, I have no way of testing, (you say , 'just turn on one section at a time') but the space is so small the works tools solder tracks wire and loads of other bits are all over the layout as i have no where else, so its wire the entire layout, clean up, then test section by section.

screenshot shows level two and three and unfinished standing yard to store trains ..

itrain Blocks. the blocks have to be considered and designed, first is an ,'Entre' section, its short, but long enough for a long loco without train to travel clear of points and send enough occupied signal with good track contact.

the next section, which is called 'Slow down', 'Occupied' or  'Break', the length and speed value of train and length of track are used by Itrain software to  calculate and run the loco smooth and slow, ready for the third and final block,  the 'stop block', ,

Screenshot show close up of finished blocks. the dark red lozenge marks the sensor track, the white block in the track=the name of the block, blocks do not include turnouts

only one of my stations lines has four sensors to represent a station in JMRI, which has different rules and controls. In Itrain stations also have different rules and controls.

Block design

the 'stop block is, usually placed before a signal, (signals are along way off on my layout ( but i will get one cheap signal to set up to let me know what to expect and keep the wiring plan flexible for signals in the long term )  .. the final block is the stop block, it also has to be long enough to allow the train to stop, esp' where you want it to stop, 

then you have to imagine the same block from the other direction if its bi-direction track route. so enter become stop and visa versa, many blocks just have one sensor other two, each gives different results. The software does the rest. well almost...

the following pics are my first attemps, i am getting tidier as i progress each dr4088 instalation

 

Generally 3 sensor sub sections on one block is used in stations, two for signals where the stop section is long out on the mainline. but many layout its seems can only fit two which is a common standard.. whatevr, theres alot of wires running 2 or 3 metres from each dr4088,, the negitive (-) track is unbroken in the block but isolated at each end usually next to turnouts,

the + side of track is isolated into sections in the blocks at again at both ends of total block.

 

each individual current sensed wire is brought to a choc block and a thinner wire connects to the dr4088lncs

above pic is right way up, dr4088 is upside down , but it does not matter , this is the first in the loconet chain, beside the main board for dr5000 and Z21 next to laptop,

below, setup to choc block while was waiting for dr4088 to arrive by post, which it did in rapid time,

above, 1.5 brown + positive wire run from track sections back to dr4088

below, connection into each of 16 terminals, i need to improve my wiring and have no copper showing, but when i turn on the power these will all be disconnected, trying the tracks one at a time, so i will fix the problems then and label each wire.

below, stuff all over the layout, the lima and hornby wagons are used to test tracks without loco attached, nor power on

Since November i have advanced my knowledge somewhat, i have worked out how many boosters i will need and when and where i have to install them including which dr4088's go with which booster

in the double isolated  boostered power blocks,  i have decide that my original plan of having all groups of turnouts on one booster is correct. the mainline will run mostly off command station built-in boosters, as that run of track is i hope least likely to have shorts circuits,  I still dont understand why i dont need circuit breakers, but theres no rush.

I received my first IRM wagons, 42's, ferts, plough, cements , taras and spoils. these are mostly still boxed, as are all my stock, until the track is fully functional, that could be a few years yet.

but as spring arrives this farmer, hs to get back out so if i get some track and stock up and running this year, it will be a bonus. the kids are busy playing computer games so they have forgot about train for now,,as per comment above this post.

thats the update on installing DCC block occupancy train detection, using current sensors on  current sensors Dr4088Ln Cs Digikeijs  via loconet .

thanks for reading...

 

[jhb171achill]

That is a SERIOUS piece of work, Wayside, and I’m sure I’m not the only one finding myself fascinated by your detailed descriptions and the pics show a truly Fry-esque level of complexity.

Edited March 5, 2020 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

Can only ageee with JB. Indeed, nosebleed level for me!

Very impressive.

[WaYSidE]

These days i am a country bumkin, although born in dublin, n worked in bars till late teens, and consider my self having been very streetwise when younger, neither nosebleed nor fry-esque are terms i know, are they slang?, were they slung, was i slonged. if nose bleed relates to high altitude, really? i am suprised, fry-esque, i dont watch racist bigoted boy programs  with car toys, if thats what you mean, so i couldnt say, i did have to ask what fry-esque meant, no one here knew.

if you read closely you will see that my writing is carefully crafted to show up on search engines, the text is filled with blocks of words likely to be searched by googlers like I looking for further info on DCC block occupation. i even save my photos, often with have searchable names. I hope the issued raised spread some light,

there is shortage of dcc stuff everywhere , but tonight that ends for DCC4EVERYONE by mark gurries and others has got it own platform and finally divorced itself from yahoo, who spy on everyone, and are blocking opensource generated emails, in Bill Fences, mick ro softys campaign to wipe out open free coding and open source projects such apachie open office, mozilla and linux. even though that mega company run their own servers on open source code, yet force their customers to use non open source code, Android is open source, Bill fences is not. good riddance to yahoo, i bet that the groups numbers double from 2.5 thousand in the next few months, as all of us who refuse to use mikrohard  rubbish.. . will now log in

which is what i will do now, see you on DCC4EVERYONE at https://groups.io/g/DCC4EVERYONE and IRM, both great spaces... last night i posted links to upto date DCC such as frpm james from DCCtrainautomation

Edited March 5, 2020 by WaYSidE

[jhb171achill]

“Fry-esqe”.....  Dunno where you got the bigoted boy racers, but please be assured that what it means is a very great compliment to your amazing work shown in your posts!

Cyril Fry was a famous modeller who between the 1930s and 1960s made an enormous and vastly complicated 0 gauge layout in his loft in Churchtown. His modelling and innovations were exceptionally impressive - as is yours!

His models may be seen displayed in the new Malahide Museum, opened a few weeks ago.

“Fry-esque” simply suggests that your own plans and layout are very much of the scale and complexity of Mr Fry......which, obviously, is a very good thing.

You'll see a few pics of some of Fry’s models posted here and there on this website. Worth a visit.

Meanwhile, keep up the good work.

[WaYSidE]

Dear jhb171achill i forgot to say thanks for the 'impressive' comment. so thanks, you have always responded to my questions and posts, and i consider you a real gent and a friend on IRM,  David Holman

also contributes to many posts including mine and his photos of models are amazing,

i now gotcha re, fry-esque,  model railway, woops sorry,  i saw it years ago, and cant wait to see the new layout. sorry if i sounded off, i thought you ment fry as in car programs, whom i dont watch and know nothing other than 3rd hand news that i cant be bothered to listen too,  

see for years i asked a simple question, do wires from rail to dr4088 current detectors get twisted as is recommend for all buses. but never got any answer anywhere, on any forum. and still haven't, after above post, i hoped i would get answers but like fishing one must wait,,,

i think i know the answer, but so much of what i thought i knew about trains, turned out false, yes i am a very frustrated , i just want confirmation,  cos i work alone mainly on this layout, all the clubs are too far away, other than kids who run the trains , its mostly up to me., and as the layout is taking massive time resources, and i kick my self i dont have a proper space to work in, , and i actually feel overwhelmed by the task, but keep doing a little every day if i get free time. not being able to test cos all the power is off is really frustrating, .. thats due to lack of space in which to build, as tools are spread over tracks, so no power , blocks didnt help, cos the power has to go off everywhere at once to work over the tracks in such small space, its aroom i know i am lucky, but 4.5 x 3 is small..

theres enough to run trains with 4 people,just., 3 is better, ..... I know i did stuff wrong, but solving those problems is my joy. such as using washed playsand and pvc to ballast the layout,  that works, provided its done well,, and wiring mostly over the layout boards on top of the layout as opposed to under, has benefits, as well as drawbacks. 

Having punched holes into old attic roofs, if this layout doesn't work, having ripped up the same layout that did work , i will have to really kick myself, while repaying the 2nd mortgage i took to pay for the trains.

[WaYSidE]

update : i just read, "there is no minimum distance between bus wires; they can even be twisted. The frequency of the DCC signal is not high enough to cause cross-talk between the wires"..

. yet , elsewhere from trusted Dcc sources , it says separated bus wires cause interferes with radio, being a different signal, and if space the wires from track to dr4088, thats not recommended either, there is no consistency in whats online. but i will keep on searching for the 'g'rail.
 

[jhb171achill]

I have to say, Wayside, I regret not having any knowledge of the more complex aspects or wiring, especially DCC, but there are many who have in the middle clubs and on here. I fully understand you’re not near them as such, though, so I get where you’re coming from.

Don’t worry about the opening remarks - I was just curious as to what the analogy was! as my knowledge of computer games matches my knowledge of DCC wiring - nil!

Keep up the good work.....!

[WaYSidE]

un-twisted occupancy detection wire,  a question about boosters? and too many beers and out with the reverse loop

Today, stuff moved on, i finally got a definitive answer as to twisted occupancy detection wire, as i suspected, Do not twist the wire between dr4088lnsc and track, as the negative - blue wire is common and that goes everywhere, except back to dr4088ln-sc , which is really only for positive wires, contrary to a youtube vids or two.  The blue wire joins the command stations twisted main bus and is split out before the dr4088, i just mount a block on the wall and connect all the commons up close to the main bus, not far from the pos + wire going from main bus to dr4088's, (dr4088's come in a few varieties, In my case its DR4088LN-CS)

So there I was bent over in the tightest of corners most of the afternoon, i managed to wire up 7 runs of block wires, all soldered and coated with insulating paint.  the next four to do are inner tracks, more ceiling space for me!.  I will have more blocks and sub sections to do, but the work will be far easier to reach and work should progress faster from here on. I took a photo of the work which i hope to upload someday, its shows the cramped space. the multitude of wires that cant be tidied until all 16 wires return to a dr4088. i t reminds me of spaghetti with anchovies.

Boosters  Dr5033,

There's no point in adding boosters if the track work dont run everything correctly, so for now the power plan is being kept simple, one booster on which to test tracks and not burn out command stations as i start up the system after testing.

Looking at the spaces i left for boosters, figuring out how many i really need, the original plan was 1 x command station with its built in 3amp booster and 1 x booster mainly running the clusters of turnouts dotted about.  the plan was running 6 trains at once. but the capacity of track space to run from 12 to 30 plus locos with lights full on in yards. many turnouts, steep rising tracks 2% plus, and cobalt SS surface motors, sorta worked out at 5 boosters x3 amp or 3 x 5amp , still not certain, but in looking at all that , its better to leave the scalable up option designed into the wiring than do what many seem to do, rip it up again, as i had to do in parts, 

to reduce boosters,  I scaled back somewhat.   before the beer, i ripped out the rising reverse loop,  for i long suspected the best place for the drama of the reverse loop was to have it hidden behind a tunnel. so today, the route i had planned in the first design was ripped up finally to match the latter Itrain layout, shown somewhere above on this page.. some day i can build a reverse loop as there is space in the east attic, but its no longer required due to block occupancy, it was in place to reverse a route where the mainline 'A down eventually got stuck in a tight dead end'.

All in all,  Thats one less booster at the west end where there is no longer space for mounting accessory space. a productive day.

[Nick]

Wrong Thread, mods please delete.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Nick
Wrong Thread

[WaYSidE]

blog, track laying update - nov 2020, 

after long summer, finally got time off to finish the track block occupancy wiring and set up.

with over 100 tracks to re-wire to the digikeijs dr4088cs Loconet current sensors .

having tested sections and got the digital side software working, i moved on to spreading buckets of washed fine sand as ballast, which made the uneven base board easy to level tracks on, much like laying patio slabs, one could say the construction works are very prototypical or indeed proto-topical !

even got to unbox some limas and a few hornby models to test the tracks, tedium is fixing every nick and bump, bad solder and more..

well over 70% done of the >150 metres of track.

 

there are a few unopened boxes of IRM models, but until everything is fully tested and working, these will stay in boxes.

i just have to will watch all your vids and pics and drool, until i get going

at this rate first full run, should be about march 2028,

 

[WaYSidE]

Oct 2021, 3 full years since i started this my first layout, being a crop farmer, I have no time to model railway from spring to November, but will make up with lots of time off in winter.

Irish rail continued to buy our seed products for landscape repairs on the permanent way, one job was sowing the Irish rail Biodiversity works in the portlaoise service depot, we supply a specialist bespoke product to grow on rocky gravelly soil out the back lot.  I did blag me way so i could visit the depot to see where the seed mixture was going to be planted, (to get it right! of course)and get a close up look at the depot, but in the end was too busy to go, as the harvest was hectic this sunny year. I did say i was railway modeller with Construction card, PPE and all, if Irish rail  continue to buy,  a visit is still on the cards.

The Layout. at the very end of a long winter and late spring, I finally got a loco to run around all the tracks, so the power is correct and connected. all well, bar a few bumps and badly sloped bends on inclines, but as its all laid on sand, just wet the track, lift and add more sand and PVA. there a dodgy track in a tunnel, again thats just a leveling issue.

The post, brought a new A or two and these lovely engines will like other sit in boxes, unused until i get the track perfect.

I had planned to install my first turnout motors, but if i get the track running perfect this side of christmas, i will be happy.

[jhb171achill]

Superb stuff, Wayside, that is most impressive!

My daughter’s “other half” is a crop farmer too - I’m well aware of the pressures of this occupation which many of the public just don’t see or understand…..

And he has a huge unused shed. Once their male heir is born next year, maybe a layout in that shed is in order!

[WaYSidE]

Railyard update, Hoping your all well...

June 2024, not much happened since 2019, when i decided to change to digital control using block detection,  my digital manufacturer, dutch firm, Digikeijs went out of business, but i can still get same components from YaMoRC.

i rewired hundreds of tracks for block detection.

Finally, got lots of different trains running smoothly, i had very little time to play trains these past few years,  after i decided to rewiring every track section to introduce blocks for digital control, after that the track didn't run well, so lots of time consuming minor adjustments were made, including some track layout changes and more. these changes used up most of my limited free time.

for the kids, we tried to make train driving realistic, meaning you had to slow right down in rad 1 and 2 bends, while there are bumps rises and inclines, to navigate, some had to be flattened out to allow certain models to progress, Lima models were able to get over badly laid tracks, (just like on prototype vid's of trains going over very dodgy tracks) which we love the most.  But many other makes/models failed to get over our layout, so the track had to improve.  wetting the sand was easy way to get track up, no carpet glue no nails, just lots of PVC, easy to wet, re stick with more pvc.

Didnt have time to go to any model railway shows, or bray wheelers , anything really, just farming and family. ..... photos show updated layout.

railyard,

Railyard showing incline on left

Real Castlecomer anthracite, "learning to get trains to run was hard enough, never mind taking photos"