NorthWallDocker

Just bought a copy from the Castle Bookstore in Castlebar, along with J.I.C. Boyd's Saga by Rail: Ireland and Bernard Share's In Time of Civil War.  Very grateful for you researching and writing this book, Jonathon.  Now re-reading Rails to Achill....

I bought bullhead rail a year ago just for this possibility of Irish broad gauge track -- 3-D printed or laser-cut sleepers.  So looking forward to your testing and development.

You might want to subscribe to the Groups.io discussion lists for OOn3 and also IrishThreeFoot.  The group has a list of past articles in the "files" section.  Alan Gee has published a good number of articles about his Donegal OOn3 layouts and how he constructed locomotive models.  If you're not already subscribing to New Irish Lines, too, you'll definitely want to.

Thank you -- the email address helps.  Query sent to the gentleman.  Now for a Schull & Skibbereen locomotive in 15mm scale....

Would any readers know if Atropos Models still is producing large-scale kits of Schull & Skibbereen coaches and other Irish narrow gauge stock? The last reference I can find is an 11-year-old address at the 16 MM Association's list of vendors:  23, The Drive, Swinfen, Lichfield WS14 9QT U.K

Also, did (or does) Atropos Models offer any Irish locomotive kits?

M

3 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

There is potential for 3ft stuff.... i suppise 009 is what most people use to represent narrow gauge on there layouts?

I believe most modellers of Irish narrow gauge do O 21mm gauge or OOn3 / 12mm gauge.  https://groups.io/g/00n3modellers and https://groups.io/g/IrishThreeFoot. 

An Irish RTR narrow gauge locomotive in OOn3 would serve a noticeable range of available rolling stock kits.  The OO9 Society offers a Tralee & Dingle cattle van kit in the members' store and Dundas Models offers several TDLR kits in both OOn3 and OO9.  The comparable Nine Lines kits for County Donegal Railway Joint Commission vans in OOn3/OO9 are no longer being produced. 

Locomotive kits exist, but are hard to come by, and require much skill to build.  Backwoods Miniature kits -- including a CDR turntable at Killybegs -- are being reintroduced by N-Drive Productions (Neville Kent).  Branchlines has offered a TDLR Hunslet kit, Clogher Valley Railway coaches, and a few other Irish kits.  Worsley Works offers a wide range of scratch-aid components.  And a few 3-D printing designers currently offer locomotive bodies and rolling stock.  Richard Ellis-Hobbs offers nice OOn3 LBER coaches in his shop on Shapeways.  Model Engine Works offers well-developed Clogher Valley Railway steam locomotives and other Irish narrow gauge railcar kits, both for OOn3 and for OO9.

Comparable UK narrow gauge railway models are offered RTR in OO9 by Peco and Heljan, especially for the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway.  

21 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

In an ideal world, a Donegal Class 5A 2.6.4T would win hands-down as a RTR model for 12mm gauge - but how many would pay perhaps €300 / €350 a pop, and buy three? Nothing remotely close to any sort of viable market.

........

I think that the 00 Works model, with small batches of RTR, is the best way; a few collectors items like, say, a RTR "800" class, should become highly sought-after collector's items, if such a thing appeared - maybe a GN "S" class too, who knows. A UTA "Jeep" would be a winner, without doubt, in the north - if that place was a great deal bigger (or more densely populated with railway enthusiasts - but who in Cork or Limerick might buy one?

I am certain that a well-chosen, limited edition run of RTR steam is a good idea, and I don't want to yet again open a vast debate aboput which it should be, but manufacturers will tread warily and sensibly, i am sure.

Four factors for a maker to consider:

-- Sometimes an offering, well-researched and well-planned, then well-advertised (possibly by free word-of-mouth), creates or expands marketplace demand by attracting new interest.  What changed in Ireland and the Irish diaspora between the advent of ready-to-run models in the UK, Continent, and U.S. during the 1950s and the advent of small-batch kit-makers in the 1970s-1980s, then Murphy Models, Irish Railway Models?  

-- Niche markets are only sustainable if potential buyers act upon their interests, or are able to act.  Good intentions but no purchases pave a road to somewhere.

-- High-quality RTR will attract new buyers, because time and skill are scarce for working-age buyers.  Quality and operability now can justifyt a premium price to overcome the obstacles of no time, inability to develop skills right now.

-- Models that allow a buyer to represent a "fleet" can encourage multiple "rolling" purchases by one buyer over time.  

I'd love to see an RTR Irish 3-foot narrow-gauge locomotive for a "fleet" -- either Tralee & Dingle Hunslet or Donegal.

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The lower picture is the correct livery; upper one not, by the way. (Just in case anyone is modelling a BNCR or MR (NCC) locomotive.

While "Midland red" was the way of things in Brexitland, the ex-BNCR retained the dark green, until LMS NCC days.

Correct. There was never a full train of them. One each on the up and won day mails to / from Cork and Galway. They were never used elsewhere, expect perhaps as a one-off of some sort long after they were no longer pullmans.

And yes, they ended their days in the dark green, but with lining as above.

The Pullman Society of the U.K's newsletter PULLMAN No. 55 (July-August 2020), pages 5-11, includes an article about the four Irish Pullman coaches.  Drawings of an Irish Pullman's side, end, and floorplan -- with numerous exact measurements -- appear on pages 6 and 7.  A number of the photos in the article date from 1926 or shortly after and show the original as-delivered paint scheme with PULLMAN across the letterboard (including a coach being lifted onto the ferry boat for shipment to Ireland). 

The GSR Pullman coaches were wider than English and a few feet difference in length.  So a Hornby model in OO with similar window arrangements  is too narrow, maybe too short.  

I think a rake would look great behind an 800-class loco, even though they worked solo in other trains.

Personally, I'd enjoy a rake of GSR Pullman coaches, to scale and exact in detail.  Worsley Works makes etched brass sides as "scratch-aids."

17 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

But say you had the choice to make a silverfox style steam loco plastic kit with donor chassis ect. Which loco would you choose for such treatment.

You might want to set up a poll for subscribers to vote.  Maybe set up a few category questions for the first round:  what time periods (1850-1879, 1880-1900, 1901-25, etc); major companies; major or popular locomotive classes for each railway.  You might also want to survey for desired scale: 4mm, 7mm, 15mm.

One could possibly determine the "dwell time" for the IRM web boards from Google Analytics -- and more probably from the IRM web board's "dashboard" for administrators.  Usually, there's a calculated graph that shows the number of viewers per time period (a day, a month) that fit within durations.  You can figure out who's reading, who stumbled accidentally and looked for a few moments, and "false hits."

I'm near Chicago, so I'd be curious to learn of any modellers of Irish railways who are anywhere in the Midwestern U.S., or anywhere in Canada or the U.S.  I've seen references to someone else in Lemont, Illinois, and then maybe Ohio and Massachusetts and Alberta Province.   

On 3/2/2021 at 2:14 AM, David Holman said:

[snip]  However, given the rapid growth of 7mm scale ready to run, is there a market for an Irish prototype in 36.75mm gauge? Probably only a handful of us working in this scale at the moment, but when you look at how well things like Terriers, 08s, 14XX, Jinties and several industrial locos have been selling, it seems clear there is a market based on those who have always fancied moving to a larger scale. Note too, these are all small locos, so you can build an interesting layout in not much more space than needed for an 00 one. Costs are very reasonable too -  less than £200 in some cases, which is significantly less than a 00 J15.

My votes would be for a J26, a G class Deutz and  a C class diesel. You could build a very nice layout around any of all of these and have a lot of fun operating them too.

 Warning - 7mm scale can be very addictive, but is it any wonder?

I'd definitely buy two 7mm J26 models in 36.75 gauge.   

@Majesitc_Trains:  I <think> I have an extra new, unused locomotive in green, and possibly an extra coach.  I'm in the States near Chicago. 

Feel free to send me a private message if you might be interested.  I haven't considered selling the extra locomotive, but would be happy to look for what I have and consider selling it to you.  Gents have been similarly helpful to me.  

If you're in Ireland, you might also want to ask @WRENNEIRE.
 

On 1/1/2021 at 2:58 PM, Robert Shrives said:

FWIW  I have asked Paul martin at Edm trains for a 21mm gauge back to back set - 19.3 mm to see what he can make - current guess was aruond £15 mark..  just now on Rm web asked Wayne Kinney about 21mm gauge point bases for code 75 BH rail.  His new and almost ready to go to market is based on a 3d printed flexible resin base with chairs printed - user has to put in rails but as in his N gauge models almost shake the box technology  and worth watching.   Using with C&L parts to make on plain track 21mm is much nearer.    Wayne could perhaps produce  trackbases in 21mm by same take and so the user just has to thread rail - an as long as not building all of Mayos lines or a scale length Belfast - Dublin line not three onerous .

two pics of N points from a few years ago

      before blades filed to shape 

The N version has a cast frog/ crossing nose for ease of building. It is sat on a natty paxolin jig for filing and cutting blades and joining on to a tiebar. The OO / 4mm version looks to have a moulded tiebar. 

Lets hope Wayne will be able to bring to market 21mm turnouts and perhaps more complex arrangements later. 

Robert 

@Robert ShrivesPlease post in the future if Wayne is able to experiment in producing Irish broad gauge (21mm) sleepers to thread rail, even if it's only straight or flex track for a start.  There were 33 persons who responded to the survey (50 percent) who chose "yes, definitely," and another 19 expressed interest.  That could lead to kits for regauging some of the RTR models to broad gauge.

@RobertRocheFollowing up on my brief comments on FB --
I'd certainly be interested in at least one or two.  Thank you for all your design labor and effort; wonderful talent.  I wish I could learn this wonderful skill you possess.

Perhaps you might consider how such an intricate structure could be easily harmed in shipment or handling.  You might want to consider interchangeability for variations, too.  Maybe consider these suggestions:
-- separate the legs and their upper connecting frame (below the deck) into one piece;

-- maybe curve the handrails and latticework for the crosswalk structure above the upper landings;

-- separate the stairway structures so that they can mount on the legs and square leg frames;

-- print the crosswalk either as one longer length, or as two halves that can be joined in the middle with narrow reinforcing, intersecting plates.

-- consider adding an insertable straight crosswalk section, to allow the different configurations that @Westcorkrailwayshowed in the posted photos.  

With interchangeable segments of legs, stairs, and crosswalk, you might expand your potential buyers.  Wonderful, admirable work.

Yes, definitely I'd buy 21mm track and points.  The sales opportunity lies in the new modellers joining.  One economical approach might be to create the sleepers for RTR track using 3-D printing, to allow an adjustable print-to-order.  The track could be sold as simple kits -- sleepers in strips with rails to be inserted.

Meanwhile, I bought Irish broad gauge sleepers from the ScaleFour Society and bullhead rail in code 75.  (Thanks, Jeremy Suter, for the help.)  Just need uninterrupted free time.  Working towards a combined MGWR Sligo line with Collooney Jct. to Dromod and the Cavan & Leitrim from Dromod to TBD.

A now-often-cited article about "the Long Tail" of a niche market might help explain how to think about models of Irish broad gauge (and Irish 3-foot RTR on 12 mm track).  You create the niche, in part, that people haven't articulated in masses -- you don't respond to an existing mass market.  The idea is used for a lot of niche-market sectors, such as a rare books library or historical museum that specializes in certain research subjects.  https://www.wired.com/2004/10/tail/