leslie10646

Nelson

Look no further.

I have a set on the desk beside me and I'll bring it to Bangor.

See below for Eric Robinson's details.

Regards

Leslie -

From: ROBINSON ERIC < e.robinson40@ntlworld.com>

To: lesliemcallister < lesliemcallister@aol.com>

Sent: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 17:28

Subject: Re: Loco Transfers

Dear Leslie

Yes I still do them, Loco @ £4.75 and wagon @ £3.00. Just send a cheque with a stamped addressed envelope for return to me at

7 Petre Cres

Rishton

Blackburn

Lancs

BB14RB

I also have some G S wagon as well

Regards Eric

Did they list it on 1 April, by any chance?

Nearly as funny as the nuclear-powered Class P2 story in the Steam Sun.

Crazy old coot is right but he left us with some memorable oddities.

 

Heres the patent for the triangulated underframe. I've a feeling i've a photo of a crash somewhere showing an open wagon on it's uppers revealing how it worked in practice.

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=GB&NR=584858

 

Willing to be corrected by the more knowledgeable, but the cradles on the weedspray tanks are triangulated underframes?

TRIANGULATED CHASSIS

Well done Richie finding that patent. I note that it was taken out jointly with Lionel Lynes, which made me wonder who is was.

The internet helped but it was "Bulleid of the Southern" (naturally in my library!) which gave the answer. Lynes was Bulleid's wagon Chief Draughtsman on the Southern and they originally jointly patented the chassis in 1944-45. The one you highlight is an update.

While Lynes had no Irish connection that I can easily see, he was recruited (from Swindon) by Richard Maunsell when he joined the SE&CR from INCHICORE.

You mention whether some recently-used wagons had a triangulated chassis - it does make me wonder just how many Irish wagons ended up being built with them.

So, I've got my researchers working on that!

Leslie

Crazy old coot is right but he left us with some memorable oddities.

 

Heres the patent for the triangulated underframe. I've a feeling i've a photo of a crash somewhere showing an open wagon on it's uppers revealing how it worked in practice.

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=GB&NR=584858

 

Willing to be corrected by the more knowledgeable, but the cradles on the weedspray tanks are triangulated underframes?

Careful, Richie:

I named my second son after the Great Man and for good reason.

When you've had the number of brilliant FAST runs behind his engines as I have, you wouldn't view him as crazy.

His misfortune was that he came to the top job fairly late in life and so he had to put everything into one roll of the dice - so the original pacifics had many unproven ideas which he thought would work, but didn't have the time to spare to test fully - hence the oil-bath (NOT a good idea in the event and loathed by the fitters), steam operated fire doors (which the firemen loved) and electric lighting - there is a story that the Southern men used to roll into Exeter St David's and when they were sure plenty of Great Western men were watching, they'd switch on EVERY light on the engine - no smoking oil lamps for enginemen in Bulleid's world).

The Turf Burner wasn't his idea, it was the turf board which launched the project - in any event, he did little of the final design, that was done by two young engineers sent over on loan by BR. I can offer a talk on the truth behind the engine. I've met the man who rerally built the TB.

Finally, the pretty disastrous diesels - Bulleid favoured US manufacturers from the beginning. Like it or not, no-one builds diesel locos as well as the yanks. It took Britain a long time to figure that out - they should have paid more attention to the Irish scene?

Leslie

Sorry, Hunslet, only saw your question now about 6111.

 

With no others, it isn't possible to have an AEC set as such on the DCDR, though in theory 6111 could be paired with a Park Royal done up as a driving trailer, like on the Waterford & Tramore. Laminate brake genny 3223 has already been converted as a push / pull car there and is used as such at times.

 

However, the restoration of 6111 is an extremely major task, unlikely to see the light of day for many, many years. It was acquired as a long term project. It has no engine or control gear, this having been removed a long time before CIE withdrew it. Therefore, once restored, practicalities may dictate that it is used - certainly initially - as a push / pull car or observation coach.

 

Even the bogies would require significant attention, and the bodywork will need little less than a total rebuild.

 

But at least it's saved.

John

Interesting about the early railcars and with hindsight, it's s pity they all went. Of course, we hated them in the '60s - they were doing work our beloved blue (and black) engines could have been doing.

Several RPSI coaches were former BUT trailers, but not AECs? Maybe a K15, of which the Society has several.

My London based "Syndicate" bought 737 (or was it 727) which had had a driving position.

I can't find my copy of 40 Shades, in the bookshelves, otherwise I would be more certain! I'm sure you know? Maybe you should ask them for a couple - after all "we" can't run them any more?

Leslie

PS Of course, I have a AEC set upstairs and my BUT is being digitised as I type!

Great scenes there, was the "shoppers special" an actual train?

Nelson

To add to Hunslet's reply, which covers 1970s - 80s.

In the 1960s. there was a weekly Shoppers Special from Dublin to Belfast (on a Wednesday, if memory serves - my copy of the WTT is buried at the moment). In 1963, it was hauled by No.85 or even No. 207, before she came North. I believe I saw both engines on the train.

There was a Southbound Tourist Train, complete with dining car (possibly even a KITCHEN Car) on Thursdays - run, I think, for patrons of the UTA Hotels, especially the Laharna at Larne. Now that would have been hauled by one the the UTA's Class VS - No.58 (208) or No.59 (210) until maybe 1963. In 1964, I am fairly certain that it was Class WT hauled.

I had my last run with No.207 in July 1965 on a Thursday summer extra to Dublin, but I think it was deemed to be a "Board Excursion" that is an extra run by the UTA at a special fare to encourage leisure traffic.

Leslie

Junctionmad says he can't think of another country so railcar oriented.

Well, I live in one. If you ignore the HSTs, which are a fixed formation train, you've only got the East Coast, the Norwich services in East Anglia, the ATW Holyhead trains and a few one-off temporary services.

There IS however, one British Railway which understands that above 5/6 vehicles that a loco and coaches is cheaper to run and that's the award winning, customer-loved Chiltern Railways. Which happen to be German owned!!!!

In fairness to Dick Fearn and his managers who bought the Rotems, I have found them a delight to travel in and an example of what a DMU should be. But, as others have said - it makes Ireland a very boring place railway-wise.

Just as well there's lots of steam!!!!!

Leslie

Until the next time, Dive! Remember 85 was permanently retired about ten years ago...... 186 is actually in good enough order; it's just that it's of less use than the others.

The problem is that the RPSI needs locos which can pull 7/8 coaches at 60mph (70mph would be better!) to keep out of the way of Mal's CAFS and your Korean things down South - so if she steams again, it'll more likely be on John's Little Railway - aka Downpatrick - or on our site?

By a stroke of luck, I travelled behind her sister, No.132, in the 1960s so No.131 will be a new engine for me!

It has been a terrific job by Peter Scott and his trusty henchmen at Whitehead.

Leslie

Noel

All interesting stuff.

The choice of steam loco to produce was interesting.

I wonder what the answers would have been if you had suggested a "101"Class (J15) 0-6-0?

Apart from two preserved ones, they were all over the place "down South" until 1960 or so and were the last to go.

Leslie

No.800?

Too many wheels!

Engines are meant to have EIGHT, arranged 4-4-0!

Given the Euromillions, it would be No.207 again and she wasn't preserved for much the same reasons Lord White mentioned earlier against No.800.

That said, it WOULD be interesting to see how she really could run, as there's not a lot of info on how good they were. They were never given the chance to shine.

On the names - my sons are William (not Stanier, but that was a useful second reason) and Oliver, who IS named after an Irish 'Saint', born in New Zealand. Now, I have to admit that HIS engines had TWELVE wheels and went like the wind!

Leslie

Too slow ah well congrats to who got them

Nelson

Not at all - there are loads of SETS of these drawings around - all you need do is find someone with a set and ask them nicely for what you need!

On the coaching front, Richard McLachlan of the IRRS has digitised lots of coach drawings and sells them as sets.

I'll put something on my website.

Leslie

thanks guys.does anyone know how many of the 500 class 4-6-0s their were?

three

Oh, all right then, I'll get it our of its nice warm box and photo it for you.

But not for a day or two - off to see ARIGNA in the morning. Maybe i'll photo that too!

Leslie

Far far fewer DSE items of rolling stock and I suspect some may not have been in tip-top condition and got withdrawn in GSR days.

Just to complete the DSER Coach Type F10 story - according to Shepherd - Nos.5 and 6 were withdrawn in 1926 and 1925 respectively, but Nos 8 and 9 with down-graded to thirds in 1928 and 1931 (no withdrawal dates); No.15 appears to have remained a first until withdrawal in 1959 and No.16 was demoted to third in 1929 - again no withdrawal date stated.

A glance down the withdrawal dates stated in Shepherd's book suggested that few DSER six wheelers made it to the 1950s.

Leslie

You can't live without one when you're my age, especially under these modern low wattage bulbs.

Now, when I was a young man, the lights actually lit up the room .............

I received my BUILT Gardner from George a couple of days ago.

Now, I'm operating on my back-up "distance" specs, as the "proper" ones broke in Switzerland, but even "at a distance" it's a very fine model indeed and I heartily recommend it to lovers of the GREAT Northern - even though it's a bus.

I'd love to say that it's now in service, but it's upstairs in its box, amidst the chaos on my baseboards!

Leslie

Two questions here:

1 Brown vans were almost entirely used on the NCC. I have seen one photo of a couple at GV St in mid sixties. So, I'm pretty sure the answer is that they would not have run on CIE metals. Of course, who klnows what might have happened on a pigeon special, if "NCC" pigeon fanciers ever sent their birds so far away?

2 No.15D was a Type F10, built at Grand Canal Street and was one of SIX (Source Shepherd, DSER History). 15 appears to have been the only one to remain a first.

As for more photos - scour the photos in EVERY book covering Dublin - using a good magnifying glass.

Good luck!

Leslie

Yes, sad to hear of Leonard Nimoy's death - I enjoyed his dry depiction of the Spock character.

Nimoy appearred in other films, but to get you wracking your brains - which notable (1950s?) Western had "Bones' in it on the "Baddie" side?

Leslie

Returning to the model, for a moment.

The late Drew Donaldson had a model of one of these 4-8-0Ts, built to his usual amazing standard and powered, of course, by a clockwork motor! I can't remember if it was ever used to bank trains out of "Kingsbridge" on the layout (it WAS uphill and the trains were scale length). My memory is that it was used to shunt the yard!

I must look at my photos of Drew's collection which you can see at Cultra, to see if it survived to be displayed.

Leslie

Folks

I remember one of our number complaining about the cost of sound-fitted locos and I think I replied saying that you can't expect anything for nothing, or an equally undiplomatic reply.

Well, I may have to eat my words.

Rails of Sheffield are advertising a Hornby Class 37 with sound for about €100! Or a lot less than a hundred nicker in my langauge!

See -

http://railsofsheffield.com/network-rail-class-37-97301-locomotive-with-tts-sound-r3289tts-JJJA25783.aspx

So maybe "the Whole island WILL become full of noise" (to misquote fellow Ulsterman Kenneth Brannagh at the opening of the Olympics) and we'll see much cheaper sound-chipped Irish locos?

Leslie

But Valencia's in Spain......

 

(Sorry; J runs for cover....)

 

Absolutely stunning layout, though. Very realistic.

Watch it, Beaumont!

I must admit I would have spelt it with a "t", but Patrick spells it ValenCia in the title of his book and he comes from that area - so he MUST be right?

I would tell you how the immortal Drew spelt it, but the timetable on his famous line was all in Irish!

Not to worry, Big Dave is sure to read this and put us BOTH right!

I met the great Bob at a Pangbourne College Founders' day twenty years ago, when my son was a pupil there.

My wife, who is a professional home economist (we'd say COOK!) persuaded him that as she RE-ENGINEERED food, in the course of making a dish, she therefore was as much an engineer as him! They had a great bit of banter.

A truly lovely and talented man, who will be missed, but remembered with great affection.

He had his model (some enormous scale) working Brush 4 diesel with him - engineering in miniature if I ever saw it!

Leslie

For any of you "in weeping exile" as the late Drew Donaldson used to say, next week's Southampton Exhibition has an Irish attraction.

The 21mm "Valencia" will be at Barton Peveril College, Chestnut Avenue, Eastleigh, Hampshire on Saturday / Sunday 24/5 January. I can recommend the exhibition anyway, even without the sight of J15s in wind-swept Valencai Harbour!

See -

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/10305-SouthamptonModelRailwaySociety_SouthamptonModelRailwayExhibition

Leslie

As long as it's open by Valentine's Day when I have to take a group of forty through it (on Eurostar - I couldn't walk that far).

Well done with the van - looks the part and as Kieran says, nice details.

Leslie