leslie10646

Calling any 21mm men interested in the PW Spoil Wagon.

Gents (ladies?)

I have a customer who wants this wagon in 21mm, which is not as easy with some of my wagons - see Michael Rayner's comments below.

I really need to know about how many of you would plan to buy some of my spoil kits, but for use on proper Irish gauge - ie 21mm - then I can decide whether to absorb the extra cost, or whether it must be passed on to 21mm folk. The existing client only needs about ten - are there others among you?

e-mail me on

lesliemcallister@aol.com

if you are interested.

The "00" kits will be with me next week and will retail at £24 for single wagons - if you want a rake, I'll reduce that as I save on postage - likewise if you want to supply your own whells .......

Thanks

Leslie

Michael's reply to Robert follows -

"Robert - Leslie has asked me to reply to you direct about the 21mm chassis for the spoil wagon.

All of the wagons that I have made for Leslie, I have made to scale and the only compromise for 00 has been in the chassis casting, which is a separate casting that inserts in between the sole bars and head stocks, this means that fitting fresh axle boxes to the kit's sole bars should bring them pretty well to 21mm gauge.

To master the chassis I normally utilise an existing commercial 00 chassis and chop it around to get the wheelbase et. al. The problem with this kit is that the chassis is an integral part of the model and your proposal to split and widen the chassis would not work.

But all is not lost! On this chassis to gain the alignment of the brake gear, the manufacturers have increased the spacing of the axle boxes and added extra to the inside of them for the use of the short 16.5mm axes, this means that 18.5mm gauge should be accommodated quite easily and I think that with a bit of persuasion I could get 21mm.

Obviously it would be easier for me to master a fresh chassis to use the 21mm wheel sets and get it right and cast them, than you try and alter each individually, that is unless you only want one or two.

I would have to charge Leslie for this task as not only would the mastering need to be covered but a fresh mould would be required but the cost would not be large as the new casting would replace the original supplied.

If you could give us some idea as to the quantity that you would want and, if possible, if any other 21mm gaugers would also be interested it would be of a great help, not only for this kit but also for the next planned - the Bulleid corrugated open which perhaps should be called a 'poubelle' wagon(?) One further point, if I am doing this I should also be able to accommodate your preferred couplings at the same time.

I hope that this has been of some help and I have also sent a copy of this email to Leslie.

Best wishes Michael Rayner"

So, it's up to you guys!

Leslie

Just to say (admit?) that I have NIR 112 sound chipped by Gareth at the Belfast Model Shop and I think it's seriously good.

Of course, no-one knows that I have been testing the new spoil wagon at high speed behind her!

Sounds were even better when I tested the new wagon behind my sound-fitted No.53 (steam 2-6-4T for the younger members) which has sound fitted by Coastal DCC here in the other island.

I'm reading this thread with interest as I am VERY slowly getting my layout under way and have gone for DCC - mainly for the sound, which amuses my grandson AND his grandfather!

Leslie

John

First, No.207 was named after Ireland's Holy River - "BOYNE"!

Yes, you could have seen 207 somewhere on the GN Mainline during that period, as she worked shoppers' specials (every Thursday?) for CIE before the UTA bought her.

With the UTA she worked the weekly tourist train to Dublin, from Belfast; she worked the Sunday express from Belfast to Dublin and back in summer of 1964 (why, oh why didn't I opt for a few of those, rather than trips to Warrenpoint - which DID yield S Classes etc). She also ran specials for things like rugby matches at Lansdowne Road and, I assume Croke Park finals? - But she wasn't used that much - the semi fasts were in the hands of the 2-6-4 tanks.

Leslie

This thread is started, in answer to a comment by Mayner, quoted below.

 

"A master for a resin UG should be fairly straight forward to produce. Alternatively if you can find a builder the Worsley Works UG might be a workable alternative for batch building, especially if it can be made to fit on a Bachmann SECR C Class chassis.

John"

Well, John and others -

I now know THREE attempts at doing a rtr UG, without going the expensive Worsley route - not everyone is happy to pay £400 plus for a handmade engine!

I had hoped to get "My Man" Michael to do a resin body / tender to sit on an existing chassis - he favoured the Bachmann J39, which was close on wheelsize, spacing etc. However, his stroke may have scotched that.

Then another friend is looking at doing a brass one, in batches, as John suggests - I've seen a cab to date! This would be a pretty expensive engine by the time you pay for a modeller's time. Certainly for the purist, but not for the "average" enthusiast, who may be happy with a "close-enough" loco?

Finally, GLR3D unwisely sent me a photo of an early attempt of his - so he is being mercilessly pursued to do a complete job!

Don't hold your breath, gents, but I am still on the case with this one. It would be nice to point to a complete train that wouldn't exist without my prompting! You may be sure of my enthusiasm to do this, as i haven't got a UG myself!

Leslie

PS Richard (GLR3D)'s little JT is pretty close to be a quick win rtr loco, but it doesn't have quite the appeal of a UG!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14618[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14619[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14620[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14621[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14622[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14623[/ATTACH]Hi all,

Clearing out a friend's shed today and came across these old models covered in dust and cobwebs.

Well, Sulzer, I'm sure I don't have to tell you what you've got there?

Most of it looks only fit for the bin, but the locos will be of interest, if only to guys using the Hornby motors in clockwork locos - as the late Drew Donladson did in those amazing models of his.

Have a look at eBay, where there's a lot of wrecks on sale and fetching tens of pounds.

Good luck - interesting find.

Leslie

I should have said that the same guy who is meant to be doing a run of Class UG for me, also plans to do a rtr Class VS.

BUT, he's good at planning.

Now the Class UG may appear from elsewhere .......

Leslie

Now, why would I want to announce a rtr Class VS? I've already got one! Colm Flanagan has made about half a dozen for various of us over the last or so.

If you guys look up the link John has highlighted, I hope that you realise that the main photo isn't "Merlin" ( a Class V) but almost certainly No.207 after the UTA bought it in 1963.

John, I've noted your version of an Irish North train. Give me a while and I'll marshall it upstairs and see if I can persuade the camera to photo it.

Leslie

Yeah, it's a "parallelfahrt" - I think that's the word - the Germans were much taken by the idea about 20 years ago.

I remember it ruining a high speed run from Bremen to Hamburg in 1988, when the electrically hauled express we were meant to be pacing was running late and stopped us (we were hauled by an oil-burning pacific) roaring along for kilometre after kilometre in the eighties!

NOT a race - the idea is that the participants in each train can photo / film the other - as you can see, it doesn't work too well on a simple double track - the one I was on was on four track main line - so you don't get photos of the elbows of fellow suffers! Still, everyone to his own .....

It has been done in the UK - once. Around 1989, the then area manager at Salisbury had a big rail weekend - three different locos running steam-hauled trains to Yeovil Junction and back. The crews didn't take a blind bit of notice of the then extant 60mph ceiling for steam, so the "running" was out of this world - ask me when you see me, not for printing!

Anyway, the Area Manager's saloon ran a parallelfahrt, for videoists (all in the rear saloon) who paid a lot for the privilege and the idea was that the saloon - hauled by a Class 33 Bo Bo ran on the Up line between Templecombe and Yeovil Jct - would pace a Bullied-Pacific hauled steam train on the down line. The Class 33 was doing a full 75mph when the pacific roared past - the steam crew had slightly different ideas, you see! The passing shot from the saloon was a sight to behold!

Happy days.

Leslie

Lovely model Leslie, any developments on a locomotive to pull it?

Now, that's a separate thread surely?

Personally, I have a shedful of SSM locos, and commend Des's locos to all - apart from the minor point that they'll cost you about £4/500 each, if you pay someone to build them for you!

However, I will admit that I have this ambition to commission a loco under the PW banner, so I can say I've produced a complete train! As they say in movies - "Watch this space" ......

Leslie

For the devotees of God's Northern Railway, a van to hang on the back of your passenger trains.

The old GN was notable for the "tails" on its passenger trains - on secondary lines, often two or three vans like this - the old fashioned equivalent of a "tin van".

This one has been created by GLR3D Model Design and will be available through my Provincial Wagons website - I haven't got the pics up there yet!

It's produced by 3D printing and my photo doesn't do justice to it - it was an Irish day in Surrey - no sun! The way that Richard of 3D has got the dirt into the louvres is a delight and very typical of the GN mahogany coaches.

Guide price £80.

Leslie

Thanks for that - as they say - "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

Leslie

Can someone answer the all-important question?

What are these IRFM coaches like in reality? Finish, running, etc?

The seem to offer very good value for a pretty unique coach.

Leslie

Yes im with Nelson on this one Michael I wish you a speedy recovery and pray for you to full health and strength...... Colin..

Thanks to those of you who remembered Michael in your prayers. I'm glad to say he's getting there sufficiently to send me these photos of the new prototype today. If you compare this with the original at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that the hopper has grown somewhat, in line with the original (thanks Robert Drysdale in Norway, who pointed this out!!).

I hope to see the actual kits by the end of August - Michael is writing the instructions, as I type this!

Regards

Leslie

In my capacity as the oldest person on the planet, well maybe this website, anyway - I was "timing trains" fifty years ago, so I the following can be backed up with the logs, WTT etc, if you want.

Each Company ran its own "Enterprise". The UTA one was ex GNR railcars (probably BUTs by the mid sixties) to Dublin at 1030am and back at 5.30pm - non-stop in 2 hrs 10 minutes. The CIE Enterprise was by then a single ended B Class (121 to the younger viewers) to Belfast from Dublin at 11am, back at 4.45pm, both non-stop.

The semi fasts were the 8.15, 12.30pm, 3.15pm and 6.20pm ex Belfast; the 9.15, 2.45pm and 6.30pm ex Dublin - yes unbalanced workings, but there was an early 2.15am ex Dublin, Newspaper Train. These trains were invariably 2-6-4 tanks to and from Dundalk, working South of Dundalk was by CIE diesel.

The "good" day was Sunday when in summer anyway, the sole Belfast to Dublin semi fast was invariably No.207. I only ever timed her North of the border on the 6pm return of this train: on one unforgettable evening, from the footplate - the thrill of flying into the Knockarney dip from the Goraghwood stop - hitting 56mph in 3 mins 12 secs with NINE coaches (say 300 tons) - those were the days!

Goods trains were worked steam in the North, diesel in the south - very seldom, if at all, would a CIE diesel be seen on goods North of Dundalk.

Now, those specials. John M is right that No.207 invariably worked the Thursday Tourist Train throughout to Dublin and back. The CIE shoppers' train was often worked by No.85, at least until 1963.

Again, referring to John M's reply, while No.207 invariably worked Dublin through trains, the three "S" Class 4-4-0s spent most of their time on the GNR Derry Road. In 1964, one was always on the 1015 ex Derry to Belfast and the 3.15pm return. Compulsory trains to travel on if you were out and about in 1964.

Oh to have had my digital stopwatch and GPS then!

Leslie

There's been a double hiccup on this project.

Robert Drysdale pointed out a fault on the prototype, but as it turned out - not the right "fault - the hopper was too small and didn't have enough "overhang".

So, Michael set about remodelling it and I understand is nearly there.

Then, he had a mini-stroke! He says he's got over it, but it's sure to slow him up a bit for a while.

So, if you're given to praying, add Michael to your prayer list.

I'll keep the forum informed.

Leslie

Anthony

That's xxxxing brilliant! I'll make sure My Man sees it!

Just terrific.

Where do you find the time?

Leslie

PS Thanks for buying my kit

The colour you have chosen, Leslie, is to my memory as exact as you'll get. I never saw a pristine one myself, but have seen good quality colour pics (somewhere), and my own efforts to rub dirt off the side of one at one time would also bear this out.

 

The "some lot from Liverpool" you mention were called the "Woodlice" or "Insects" or something, and were an Oasis tribute band - for me, a Stones fan, no better at their craft than the grumpy Gallagher brothers......

Careful, John, we'll be thrown off the site for straying from the topic!

Happy Easter, everyone.

Leslie

Nelson

Thanks for the link to this wonderful cine film! The commentary is rather wayward, mind you.

Those of us who were around then were a blessed generation - born just after the terrible World War; caught the end of real steam (I travelled behind EVERY Class WT, have done eighty with two of them in regular service), travelled behind a Class VS (I think about them every day, it seems); then on moving to England did 10,000 miles behind Bulleid Pacifics (with over a dozen runs with speed in the mid to high nineties - never quite the hundred!); then the end in Germany (eight years of THAT, 10,000 miles in Schleswig Holstein alone) and enjoyed the RPSI right from that first night in September 1964. Then, of course, there were The Kinks, The Stones, The Moody Blues and some lot from Liverpool. I won't mention the rest of it - you may be taller than me, but you're too young!!!!

Keep up the modelling and searching out these gems.

Leslie

Others have commented here on the "duck-egg blue" colour of these yokes.

 

Having had a lifelong interest in liveries, I remember the first time I saw a spoil train "in the flesh", which must have been late '69 or so. The first thing I thought was, "What colour are they? What markings have they?"... As every wagon was so dirty that nothing at all could be discerned.... Dented sides as well, which as pointed out would be some challenge even for the very expert "weatherers" here....

 

See, I lived on the GNR side. Not this strange land of the NCC, where there were no proper goods trains, no "Enterprise" and thus no diesel locos, and what passed as goods was noisy railcars, no two alike, many of which were converted and even non-corridor steam stock, hauling brown vans or CIE vans to Derry! Quainter than fiction, this latter day 5'3" gauge Donegal-method operation....

 

Odd; odd indeed. But what wouldn't we give to see such a CDRJC-inspired collection of railcars, trailing wagons, today! Especially with filthy Jeeps rattling along a scenic shoreline with even filthier spoil wagons!

 

And those of us here who have been witness to more than a certain number of birthdays will reminisce; we thought it would last forever....

 

Just like ICRs today.

 

Hmmm.

John

I reckon the blue is not far off correct. If you look at the photo on Page 33 of Tom Ferris' Irish Railways in Colour you can see a new wagon at the top of a train which looks very blue against the ones behind it which have been in service for a while. On the bottom of the same page is a train of new wagons unloading and they look a very bluey grey.

Leslie

leslie - do you do a weathered version?

Seamus

As I only intend to do it as a kit, YOU can paint it whatever colour you like!

The prototype is in roughly duck egg blue, which is seemed to accord with the memories of the folk who have seen it (and are as ancient as me).

Photographs show the inside as both painted and unpainted!

Needless to say, they got VERY dirty and dented (THAT will be a nice challenge for you all!).

Glad to say, the model got a VERY good reception at Bangor.

Nice to see some of you, as well, of course!

Leslie

Nice looking job of a difficult prototype, Smallbrook Studios do some interesting stuff http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/.

 

I remember reading a piece in Irish Railfans News that a number of spoil wagons were trialled as ballast wagons on CIE. I understand that the spoil wagons belonged to the NI Department of Transport rather than NIR. After the contract the Department was anxious for a buyer as NIR did not have a need or have the means to pay for the wagons.

John (s)

That reflects my memory as well - they existed to build a ROAD after all!

Now - see the real colour - my photos of the prottype today in the sun!!!

Leslie

This is the pre-production prototype of my next KIT - the iconic Northern Ireland Railways spoil wagon built in the mid 1960s by Cravens for the Maghermorne Spoil Contract, which ran from 1966 to 1970. They place in history is safe as the last British freight stock to be steam-hauled in regular service. Trains of twenty of these wagons, topped and tailed by Class WT 2-6-4 tanks engines ran around six times a day between Maghermorne and the shore of Belfast Lough. Their legacy is the M2 Motorway running North out of Belfast, which is built on the land reclaimed from the sea by the spoil.

A few of the wagons continued to be used as ballast wagons by NIR for some years after the contract finished.

This wagon will be available as a kit of around 25 parts - the chain is maybe an optional extra, as we have yet to source a suitable chain - but doesn't it set the wagon off? Note that the final kit will have the hopper as a single casting, the door side being another - unlike this prototype (you can see the joins!).

I hope that you agree that my modeller, Michael Rayner of Smallbrook Studio, has surpassed himself with this superb model - I replied to the e-mail sending the photo to me last night with the single word - "WOW"!

We hope to have the kit available in quantity by June, price still to be set but between £22 and £25. Obviously, I'll be taking orders at Bangor, or by e-mail, of course!

Thanks for looking

Leslie

Gents

For what it's worth, PW stock is painted Halford's undercoat - you first heard it here! It's all a bit academic between the effects of smoke, diesel fumes, sunlight (moonlight(ing)) etc etc?

Leslie

Entirely steam era and GNR(I). His books of drawings cover Classes V, VS, U, UG plus the tenders. The rolling stock books are the first of five planned. The first covers vans etc which ran on passenger trains, including horseboxes; the second six wheel coaches (ie from about 100 years ago!).

Leslie

My dear David

What are you congratulating us for?

Nice of you, of course .....

Leslie