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Mol_PMB
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Posts posted by Mol_PMB
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The van is now in the weathering stages, looks a bit piebald at present but be patient...
Meanwhile, I have taken a step across the border for the next project. Here I am conducting some surgery - can you tell what it is yet?
I am attempting the same conversion on two different kits of almost the same thing; the kits are Parkside PC25 and Cambrian C107.
They both have their pros and cons - so far I think the Cambrian kit is a better representation of their intended prototype, but the Parkside kit is definitely easier to convert.
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7 minutes ago, Horsetan said:
Difficult choice of locations, though:
Westport: most operationally interesting with a junction to the Quay Line plus the "main" route over Altamont Street bridge
Newport: fairly cramped site, plus the challenge of the Seven Arches viaduct and two small connecting bridges either side, and St. Patrick's above the station.
Mulrany: high up on the hillside, with the possible need to replicate the Great Southern Hotel on the adjacent site below
Achill Sound: needs space for the sea around it, I'd have thought....
Achill station and yard would take up a massive space in its own right. Hard to imagine why it was built so large; I guess the land was effectively free and someone was hoping for an upsurge in traffic?
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On 22/11/2023 at 5:19 PM, Horsetan said:
Since completing this re-gauge, I have acquired another pack of Accurascale's P4 Deltic wheels for the princely sum of eight quid.
Just need to find another A class.....
If anyone else wants to try this (myself included) the Deltic wheel sets are half price in the black friday sale:
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The Barrowmore MRG have a BR container diagram book here:
They are not all the same size. The common 'BD' which features in many of the photos above has a footprint of 16'x7' over the body, but is 5 inches bigger in both directions over the fenders.
An Irish standard underframe is about 16'11" long over headstocks; subtract 3" each end for plank thickness and interior ironwork and you're down to 16'5" which is exactly the same as the container length over fenders. No wonder it's a tight fit - perhaps it was meant to be?
Widthwise I wouldn't expect such a problem in the wooden wagons, but the corrugated wagons seem a little narrower?
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On 25/10/2024 at 3:10 AM, Mayner said:
A bit of my personal modelling for a change IRM Bullied Open with Bachmann BR container load & one of my own GSWR/GSR/CIE "Irish Standard" Open Wagons with Bachmann conainer load.
Took some carving (removing of rasied detail from the containers) to fit the containers into both opens, though the IRM wagon possibly as a result of its very rigid construction was a very tight fit.
I guess Leslie must be right its a collective figment of the imagination that BR containers were carried in Irish open wagons, though its just about possible the rasied detail on the containers is a bit on the heavy side.
I spray painted the underframe to match the 'light grey" of the Standard Open and finished the wagon with a coat of Gunz "Mr Clear" flat finish to tone down the "sheen" of the unpainted corrugated iron body panels, its likely sheen the wore off quickly once the wagons enered service/were exposed to the Irish weather.
Those look excellent and are a nice inspiration for a load. There are plenty of photos of BR containers (and the less common CIE containers) loaded into open wagons of both the corrugated and wooden varieties, and it looks like there's plenty of space within them. I suspect the wagon sides are a bit thicker than prototypical, and the detail moulded on the containers and wagons is a bit thicker than prototype, meaning that they don't fit so well in model form.
This IRRS photo shows dozens of (bacon) containers in wagons at Rosslare waiting to be exported:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449386736
But they also appear in smaller quantities in images in the public domain, such as these from Ernie:
And this from Roger Joanes:
And finally from Brian Flannigan:
Was it the length or the width that was the problem with fitting them in? Or both?
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Tonight's challenge is adding extra rivets to the ex-GN van using Railtec rivet transfers.
In the past I've used Archer rivet transfers, this was my first attempt with the Railtec ones. They are equally fiddly, but can produce a good result when applied with care.
Photo from Ernie showing the rivetted strips around the doors and along the bottom of the body, that I'm representing:
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2 minutes ago, Down distant said:
Fantastic thread and some weapons-grade research has certainly gone into this. Who knew there was such variety in the fleet? (stupid question - clearly MoI_PMB did!). Intrigued that one or more might lie fossilised in the undergrowth at Magheramorne and if so, the possibility of their extraction should be investigated (I know, who'd pay for that?). Now that the Game of Dragons people have cleared off, is drone flying allowed in that area? Surely a brief reconnaissance flight might shed some light on the matter.
I didn't know myself until I started looking at the photos and then went down a rabbit-hole trying to find out more! I do enjoy research as much as building the models. I'm hoping @leslie10646 will produce another run of his kits as I'd like to build a few with the different variations.
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A couple more photos I've stumbled across while searching for other things...
A panorama of North Wall with tens of thousands of railway sleepers, many loaded onto wagons. There are at least 20 'ballast' wagons in the photo, which mostly appear to be the conversions from cattle wagons, some with sides and some without. They mostly seem to have black underframes and red bodies, though the shades of red are variable from bauxite to pink:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511515508/
A 1950s photo at Inchicore featuring one of the steel-underframe variants, which seems to have had its body planking renewed in unpainted wood:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509178859/
This isn't a ballast wagon, it's a 'ballast van'. The presence of two of these in the working timetable listings for the 1975-1986 period had been puzzling me - why on earth would they use a van for ballast? Well the answer is that they were vans for people to shovel the ballast. 24803 and 24804 are listed in the 1985 WTT and here is the first of them, a 6-wheeler that looks purpose-built as a PWD mess van:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511314016/
Freshly painted in 1970 in red livery (slightly brownish red but much brighter than normal freight brown) with roundel. Underframe, ends and roof are black. This is probably a good indication of the colour of the dropside wagons before they faded or got dirty.
It also appears in this 1965 black and white photo with a snail:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511587200
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Having done some research, here's a little more info on the CIE lowmac (low machinery) wagons.
Pender & Richards (1967) list:
- 23959-23962, Machinery, 20 ton capacity, 26'6" length over headstocks, built in 1954.
'Machinery Wagons...The four-wheeled wagons built in 1954 are to the same design as two built by the GSR in 1925'.
Pender & Richards only list CIE-built wagons, and there are 4 of them, plus 2 GSR, suggests a total of 6.
The 1975 CIE working timetable lists:
- 23957-23962 Machinery Truck, 20 tonnes capacity, 12 tonnes tare
That's a total of 6 and suggests that the GSR wagons were 23957-23958.
They do not appear in the 1985 or 1986 working timetable listings. Nor do they appear in the 1979 or 1981 Doyle&Hirsch stockbooks. I think this is because they were renumbered into the internal use series with the A suffix.
The very first photo in this thread appears to show 649A, also mentioned in the thread above are 645A, 650A, & 651A. Intriguingly, the range from 645A to 651A represents seven wagons, not six.
Here are some links to more photos on Flickr; only IRRS members will be able to see these in the IRRS archive.
One of the GSR pair in the late 1920s, carrying a damaged ballast hopper wagon:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53813126331
23958 in 1969, with plain bearings and older buffers:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559
A couple of photos of one carrying a yellow and black mobile crane in 1976:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511728140/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511296761
A series of photos with one carrying a blue mobile crane in the 1980s:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53526421602/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527462883/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53526383912/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527462893/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285271/
650A at Inchicore in 1986, with a load of alternators:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509017991/
The livery appears to be black in all these photos; only the Gordon Hawkins image in an earlier post is red-brown.
The Dapol Kitmaster (ex-Airfix) plastic kit for a BR diagram 2/244 'Lowmac EK' is a pretty close match to these wagons in style, shape and size. The Irish wagons were a foot longer, probably a little wider, and there were detail differences, but it's not bad:
Hope that helps and inspires?
Mol
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2 minutes ago, Horsetan said:
I'm going to see if these can be fitted to the Murphy / RPSI Mk2 trio
Let us know how you get on - I was thinking of fitting some to a Murphy Cravens.
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On 4/5/2022 at 11:38 PM, Mayner said:
There are few published photos of the LMA wagons, there is a photo of 16812 & 17215 at Mullingar in the early 1980s in the IRRS Flickr album. Unfortunately the IRRS was unable to release photos of the LMA and other wagons.
Hi John,
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but would you be able to point me towards this photo? I've had a look on the IRRS Flickr archive but I can't find it.
I did find these two images of LMA vans though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508657828
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511166741
Many thanks,
Paul
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I'd missed one! I think this may be one of jhb171achill's photos which I downloaded earlier, and then forgot about. This is a super photo of 24048, with the plain axleguards and in all-over bauxite paint with roundel:
This shows some of the details rather more clearly.
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Other types of dropside wagons appear in some photos that do not fit into any of the groups described above, and these may be from other CIE/GSR constituents. Here are some example photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510583447
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511622074
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570466216
...and the more distant one in Ernie's photo that we looked at before:
For the steel underframe wagons in the previous post, a model of the SECR 2-plank dropside ballast wagon would be a good starting point. These are available as a kit from Cambrian, and have been made RTR by Rapido, although you'll have to search for them secondhand.
The SECR wagon is the right length but has a 9'6" wheelbase instead of 10'. It's not a perfect match, but it was available in red livery like some of the CIE ones, as well as the more common grey:
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We now come to the tricky group, the 4-wheelers with steel underframes. These were basically the same design built by the GSWR through to CIE, with the last batch of 50 in 1949. Number series included the following, but there may have been more:
- 8343-8385, built by GSWR
- 8460-8492, probably also GSWR
- 24000-24047, built by GSWR/GSR from 1917
- 24051-24100, built by CIE in 1949
Pender & Richards (1967) list only the CIE-built wagons (they deliberately exclude earlier stock):
- 24051-24100 1949 Ballast, 12 tons, 16'11" length over headstocks
'Ballast wagons...the 1949 batch of 50 wagons have conventional steel frames...They are all finished in the red livery of the Permanent Way Dept.'
The 1975 working timetable lists the following groups; note the different load capacities:
- 8460-8492 Ballast Wagon, 8 tonnes, tare 6 tonnes.
- 8343-8384 Ballast Wagon, 10 tonnes, tare 6 tonnes.
- 24000-24047 Ballast Wagon, 10 tonnes, tare 6 tonnes.
- 24051-24100 Ballast Wagon, 12 tonnes, tare 6 tonnes.
There is either some confusion in the numbering or the early sequences are not entirely open ballast wagons, because 8263/8382 are listed separately as 20 tonne ballast hoppers.
The 1985 and 1986 working timetables list the same groups.
Doyle&Hirsch 1979 edition does not list the ballast wagons in the 8000 number series (though some other GSWR wagons in that series are listed). It does list the later wagons, although it appears that the numbers are becoming depleted:
- 24000-24028 Ballast Wagon, 10 tons, tare 6 tons, wheelbase 10'0", hand brakes, introduced 1917.
- 24051-24100 Ballast wagon, 12 tons, tare 6 tons, wheelbase 10'0", hand brakes, introduced 1949.
The 1981 edition has the same details and number series given. Sadly I have presently mislaid my 1987 edition, so I can't check that.
There were detail differences between the batches, such as the type of W iron, axlebox and buffer. However, these are details that may change at overhaul so they aren't 100% reliable indicators.
From Ernie, the wagon next to the cattle wagon here is a good example of the type, and is seen in 1961. The body of all these is very standard: 4 door hinges and 4 door bangers next to the hinges, 2 shallow planks on sides and ends, and stakes at the ends.
The wagon in the photo above has plain axleguards, so I'm fairly sure it's a GSWR/GSR wagon but I'm not sure which batch it's from.
The photos from Ernie below show two survivors in 1978, one of which appears to be red with black or dark grey underframe, while the other one looks yellowish. I think the red one also has the plain axleguards like the wagon pictured above.
Taken in 1968, here's a nice portrait of 8385, one of the 10t capacity GSWR wagons, with the other type of GSWR W-iron. The body is in bauxite-red with flying snail, while the solebars are grey:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511328921
This photo apparently of 8271 dated 1971 looks almost identical, except the wagon is in very poor condition. 8271 is not in the number ranges for this type of wagon listed above.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510434197
This 1969 photo shows two more very similar wagons, probably from the 10t capacity batch. One appears to have a dirty bauxite body with snail, but the underframe looks more grey. The nearer wagon only just visible is bright red with black underframe:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511304476
In the corner of the photo is another GSWR wagon:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511614390
Moving on to the CIE-built versions with 12t capacity, there are definitely two of them in this 1969 photo as their numbers are legible, 24076 and 24078. Their bodies are both in bright red livery with white roundel, while the underframes are dark grey or black. The number is shown on the sides and the ends. The second photo was taken at the same location and shows an alternative view of one of them in the background.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511462853
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511469593
This 1970s photo shows 24054 from above, with its sides dropped:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527762385
This 1975 photo from Jonathan Allen shows half a wagon on the edge of the photo with a 24xxx number:
Other photos featuring this type of wagon, but less identifiable, are as follows:
A rake of 5 in 1966:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510480877
One in 1978:
A floorless example in 1986:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509338094
Apparently still in use in 1985 but in poor condition, note pale body and black underframe:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509335364
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Next I'll look briefly at the 6-wheelers, which were built by the GSWR. I know very little about these, but they are interesting vehicles.
They had one-plank ends with stakes, and the one-plank drop-sides were in two portions.
These wagons had screw couplings and vacuum brakes as well as a handbrake. It appears that the vacuum cylinders acted on clasp brakes on the end wheelsets, while the handbrake acted on the middle wheelset. The long spindly buffers are unusual on a wagon. It is possible they were modified from 6-wheel carriages, or used some aspects of carriage design.
Pender & Richards (1967) do not list these, because they only include CIE-built wagons in their listing.
The 1975 working timetable lists them as one group, and the same data is repeated in the 1985 and 1986 working timetables:
- 24102-24112 Ballast Wagon, 10 tonnes, tare 10 tonnes.
The tare weight is considerably more than the 4-wheeled dropside wagons.
Doyle&Hirsch 1979 and 1981 editions do not list them, despite them being listed in the working timetable as late as 1986.
I have found three photos so far, all in the IRRS archive. This image from 1969 shows 24103 being rebuilt, with a significant amount of new timber. The parts not renewed show a livery of dark red or bauxite on the sides, and black or dark grey on the chassis:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511646909
Another photo of the same wagon in service in 1972 after its rebuild shows it in a fairly bright red on the sides and ends, with black underframe. Number, PWD lettering and a roundel are in white on the sides:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511646919
The final photo I've found shows just one end of 24112, in a black and white shot:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498774956
Sorry I haven't yet found any photos of these in the public domain.
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The Stapleford miniature railway is used by the IMechE as a venue for the 'Railway Challenge' competition which involves teams of university students building a railway locomotive to meet various technical challenges. The competition attracts many national and international entries, and has been such a success that improvements to the track layout and facilities at the railway have been needed to accommodate it.
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I'm going to start with the last two groups, converted from cattle wagons. These are the easiest to identify in photos, because they have wooden underframes, whereas all the other types have steel underframes.
Pender & Richards (1967) list these as follows:
- 24401-24450 1964/65 Ballast, 12 tons, 16'11" length over headstocks, ex cattle; with fall doors
- 24451-24515 1964/65 Ballast, 12 tons, 16'11" length over headstocks, ex cattle; no fall doors
'Ballast wagons...the timber-framed wagons are conversions from cattle wagons. They are all finished in the red livery of the Permanent Way Dept.'
The 1975 working timetable lists them as one group, and the same data is repeated in the 1985 and 1986 working timetables:
- 24401-24515 Ballast Wagon, 12 tonnes, tare 6 tonnes.
Doyle&Hirsch 1979 edition lists them as one group too:
- 24401-24515 Ballast wagon, 12 tons, tare 6 tons, wheelbase 10'0", hand brakes, introduced 1964, converted from 1953 built cattle wagons.
By the 1981 edition, they were still listed but the number series had shrunk to 24412-24499.
Sadly I have presently mislaid my 1987 edition, so I can't check that.
Anyway, that's all fairly consistent. Let's look at some photos. Please note that those linked to the IRRS archive will only be visible to IRRS members.
This photo dated 1975 from Jonathan Allen on Flickr should be visible to everyone though. We're looking at the wagon next to the brake van on the right, which appears to be loaded with spoil.
It's a 2-plank dropside with end stakes, on a wooden underframe with long hand brake lever. Large flat fronted axleboxes. Note that the drop side has 4 hinges but only 3 door bangers and 3 corresponding banger plates on the sides.
Here's 24514, a wonderful colour portait of the wagon dated 1969, showing its vivid red body and grey underframe. It has a white roundel and very small PWD lettering:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510417347
Here's another quite clear colour photo dated 1970, which shows 24477, again in red livery with roundel and PWD. In this case the solebar is either black or very dark grey. The physical details of the wagon are the same as in the two previous photos. It is carrying a crew mess hut. We can see the number 24477 on the side and end, but it has been crossed out and a new number 360A painted on the solebar and the end.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644103
Here's a track relaying train in the 1970s, the wagons loaded with sleepers, with 24401 visible as the wagon next to the brake van. This wagon has no sides but it does have 2-plank ends. Pender & Richards noted that some of these wagons had 'fall doors' (dropsides) and some did not, but the wagon numbers with and without sides in the photos are not consistent with their statement. Although it's a colour photo, the livery is rather indeterminate but we can see that the number is painted on the end.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527762385
In the same photo, the wagon next to the crane with bright red ends but no visible number also appears to have a wooden underframe and is therefore another of this group. The solebar looks to be dark grey or black and may have a white roundel on it as well as the number. We can see that the deck planks are no wider than the solebars.
Finally, and perhaps scraping the barrel, I think the nearest wagon visible in this 1969 photo is of this type, because of certain visible details such as the door banger and hinge positions. It does show a useful view of how the open door hangs relative to the floor:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511622884
Considering the slightly faded red livery visible on several of these wagons in the 1969/1970 photos, their bodies were probably painted red with white roundels at the time of their conversion from cattle wagons in 1964/5. The underframes may not have been painted at that time, retaining their previous dark grey. Some wagons may have missed out on the red paint, but as yet I haven't seen a colour photo of one of these in grey. The stocklists indicate that some lasted into the 1980s but their numbers were dwindling.
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I’m going to write a series of posts about the dropside open wagons described by CIE as ‘Ballast Wagons’ in the late 1960s to 1980s period. This excludes ballast hoppers and I will also exclude the PWD flat and bolster wagons which were sometimes also referred as ‘Ballast Wagons’ – they may form the subject future research. Some of these wagons carried an unusual red livery in both ‘snail’ and ‘roundel’ eras.
I intend to cover various number series based on a combination of the following sources:
- ‘Irish Railways Today’, by Pender & Richards, 1967.
- ‘Locomotives & Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR’, Doyle & Hirsch Stockbooks, 1979 and 1981 editions.
- CIE ‘Working Time Table’, November 1975, January 1985 and January 1986 editions, which include a listing of wagon types.
- Images in the IRRS photo archive and elsewhere on Flickr and in publications.
The following number series will be considered:
- 8343-8385, built by GSWR
- 8460-8492, probably also GSWR
- 24000-24047, built by GSWR/GSR from 1917
- 24051-24100, built by CIE in 1949
- 24102-24112, 6-wheelers, maybe conversions?
- 24401-24450, converted in 1964/5 from 1953-built cattle wagons
- 24451-24515, converted in 1964/5 from 1953-built cattle wagons
To clarify the type of wagon I’m talking about, here are a few lurking in the corners of photos on Flickr, from Ernie and Jonathan Allen:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/43494741444
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52900024110
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/51181975826
Most of the better images of them are on the IRRS Flickr archive and I’ll provide links to those as I discuss each variant.
More later…
Mol
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That’s great, many thanks! I think I can make out the traverser at the back of the wagon works on those views, and they help to confirm the position of the carriage wash plant.
It also looks like the main lines have been reballasted so maybe some alterations there too. -
Reviving an old thread, the GSR built several of these and CIE copied the design. There were never many of them - maybe 10 in total but it’s complicated to keep track because they were on the borderline between the ‘traffic’ number series and the internal use wagons with an A suffix.
The old-school Airfix kit now marketed by Dapol is a pretty good match, I think. But the space under the deck is very limited on a lowmac so I’m not sure how practical it would be to produce an Irish gauge version from the kit. I might give it a try…
Here’s 651A at Limerick in 1991 (Adrian Nicholls photo:
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That’s a bit too accurate for comfort. It’s making my knees and back hurt just looking at those ‘seats’.
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To ensure compliance with the regulations they’ll have to install lifts, or zig-zag ramps that are so long that they cross the county boundary!
Not to mention protection from the OLE that’s now spreading further (great news!)
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I have had a trawl through the National Library of Ireland online photo archive, which contains a very good selection of images of this part of Limerick and helps to identify when the major changes took place. There are also photos of the signal box track/signalling diagrams from 1959 and 1974 (for both the Station and Check boxes) which help to confirm the track layout of the running lines and some of the sidings.
From this I have discovered that the original WLWR loco shed was used as a steam loco workshops until 1962, and the smaller building behind it (to the west) was the fitting shop. The larger sheds just north of the Foynes line were the wagon works.
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305892
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306360
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305899
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306231
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306904
In 1962/3 there were some major changes. The loco works was closed and the area around it tidied up, with redundant sidings between the shed and the main line removed along with a load of accumulated junk. A nice green lawn was planted! The loco works building became part of the wagon works, but the right-hand track into it was removed. T
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306902
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306650
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307038
This is a great general view but is flipped left/right: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307276
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307749
In 1974 there were some more major changes to the track layout, associated with the resignalling of the whole Limerick area. Both the station and check cabins were converted to electonic panels with colour light signals. The old loco shed south of the Foynes line was cleared and the site used for a bus depot. This meant the locos had to move back to their original home, and so the green lawn was ripped up and replaced with some stabling sidings and a fueling point. The third line into the old WLWR shed was also reinstated and this appears to have been used for loco maintenance while the other 2 tracks remained part of the wagon works.
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308203
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308161
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308204
https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308111
I think the layout remained basically the same then into the 1990s, though the fuelling point facilities were improved and at some point a carriage wash plant was installed on the adjacent line. Photos from Tarkaman, Ernie, Pete Robins, Dan Hitchens:
At some stage I'll see if I can create a trackplan of the area for the 1974-1990s period.
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Many thanks, that’s really helpful!
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I definitely had one of those Lima Mk1 composite coaches back in the 1980s. It's a genuine model, though not of a real prototype. Issued about the same time as the Class 33 painted as an A class (which I also had).