irishthump

Another thing to note about the MM121 decoder I bought yesterday....

The Loksound V5 is available in 2 versions - The V5 and the V5 DCC. There are some important differences between the two decoders...

The V5 is designed for the European market. It addition to DCC it works with other control protocols such as Marklin and Motorola which are more popular with European modellers - not really relevant to us! It also uses a multiplier of .25 for momentum settings similar to the V4. The vast majority of other brands of decoders use a multiplier of .896 and no one knows why ESU deviated from this when developing the V4.

What that means is that when you program acceleration or deceleration whatever value you enter into CV3 or CV4  if you multiply this value by .25 the result is the amount of seconds it takes for the loco to go from full speed to a dead stop. So a value of 100 in CV4 means the loco will take 25 seconds to come to a stop.

The V5 DCC is made primarily for the US market. It uses a momentum multiplier of .896 which is preferable on large layouts common in the US. 

Now, when I looked at the decoder I bought in my Lokprogrammer software it identified it as a V5 DCC. If the rest of the decoders supplied are all DCC5 it will mean that if you try to double head them with Loksound V4's your momentum settings will not match up.

It's a simple enough fix, simply take the value you have entered into your V4 and divide it by 3.6 and enter this value into the V5. This should result in the two different decoders being matched.

27 minutes ago, patrick said:

https://www.iascaled.com/protothrottle/        Have you seen this Noel. There are also some demo videos on You Tube.

Bloody stunning piece of engineering. Unfortunately, not available outside the US.

(I looked into it, believe me!!!)

26 minutes ago, Noel said:

PS: Purely for info today out of curiosity I took a LokSound V5 21pin 141 decoder out of B165 and popped it into a MM 121 and it worked ok including the ESU full throttle drive features (ie throttle hold, braking, etc). I could not drive a loco anymore that was not able to coast nor brake on command and be driven prototypically. Might pop short video clip up over next few days. It's a total feast of options available to Irish modellers. Going to layout now for a while to play and shunt wagons using B134 with kadee automatic uncoupling magnets to marshall a goods train in the yard.

There's no reason the decoder would'nt work as normal in an 121 as opposed to a 141....

Just now, murphaph said:

It's fine like that IMO. Better to use a high quality ESU recording of the same prime mover in a very similar body (the recordings are from little US road switchers, which is basically what the 121 is), rather than use a less than optimal 121 recording.

@irishthump can you clarify if the full throttle features are not or are enabled by default? I think there's a small typo in your post which makes it unclear.

 

Yes, the sounds on the ESU website are very recent, high quality recordings and the engines in both those switchers are identical to what's in the 141/121/181's

Sorry I corrected the typo! No, Full Throttle features are NOT activated in these decoders as delivered. But like I said, it's an easy task to turn them on with a Lokprogrammer. I just did it with my own decoder.

6 hours ago, murphaph said:

The prime mover in the sound file sounds very similar to the 8-645E available on the ESU website:

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/search?q=8-645

(ESU bizarrely have no SSL)

OK. I picked up one of the 567 decoders from Mark's Models yesterday and have spent the morning tinkering with it. Now let me say right off the bat, it sounds excellent! But the soundfile is not bespoke, apart from the horn it basically uses this file: 

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/search?q=8-567

A more prototypical horn has replaced the US one, but it's the same file. I suspect the EMD 645 is the file that Murphaph has linked to above.

By the way I installed the MM decoder into one of my 141's to test it out. These work fine with the 141/181's without the need for any adjustments. F0 controls the lights as expected so these decoders are perfect if you also want sound in your other locos.

One other thing, if you're used to running Loksound decoders using the Full Throttle features be warned that these decoders do not support those features out of the box. They also don't take full advantage of the new features unique to the V5.  Reprogramming them is simple enough but you really need the Lokprogrammer to do it. Trying this process by just adjusting CV's is not easy!

BTW this is not meant to bash MM in any way, the decoders work fine and sound great which is what is important. (I have 2 more on order anyway!) Just putting the info out for anyone who is interested!

9 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

I think its this bit here, it might not actually fit on the axle so you don't need to prise off the rotating bit. There would only be one per loco. Looking at later photos of IE IR liveried locos it may have been changed to a different design. I could be completely (and probably am) wrong about this

Yes that’s it. The design may well have changed over time.

21 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

From a conversation some time back with PM, I seem to recall that the cylindrical thingy is a speedometer that fits to the rotational part of the axel on the left hand side of the loco, cab forward, you will need to prise out the cover off the axel . The speedo does not rotate , the bag of extras is a generic bag that will have some bits for the various models being issued, not all the bits will go on every loco

Yep it's clearly visible in this pic...

22 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Would you be better striping the coach in brake cleaner before priming .

 

Ewww.... brake fluid?  You use that on the wrong plastic and you'll get a mess!

On 9/11/2020 at 12:19 PM, spudfan said:

 

My point about the plastic hand rail is that it stands out as a plastic item and takes away from the model.  I know we have been waiting on these for a long time but I do not think they should be above criticism if it is fair, appropriate and honest. 

 

This I don't get. You do realise the model is MOSTLY plastic? I really don't see how this particular part on the model looks any worse for being made out of plastic.

7 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Thats all good and fine, but what about the yellow handrails on the 121's?  

Just wait for the rest of the “snag list”....

On 9/11/2020 at 9:43 AM, spudfan said:

I am afraid judging by the photos the plastic rails just don't cut it for me.

Wow! Didn't take long did it? 

A big thanks to Paddy for his immeasurable contribution to making the Irish RTR scene what it is today.

4 hours ago, Dead Kennedy said:

I've noticed MM B121 comes without lamp irons on either buffer beam. They were on the locomotives from the start. Is it just an oversight on the ( excellent) model?

Is it something to do with the model being in its “as delivered” condition? Perhaps they were fitted after arrival by Inchicore Works....

4 hours ago, murrayec said:

There is a note in Mr Murphy's 121 instructions 'use of a non MM chip voids the loco warranty' one should keep that under consideration when using non MM chips.....

Eoin

I really don't understand that, there's almost no way that using another brand of decoder can cause damage to a loco. What's far more likely is faulty wiring in a loco causing damage to a decoder! 

A DCC ready loco should operate with ANY decoder without fear of invalidating a warranty.

9 hours ago, murphaph said:

I can't wait to hear that demo. One thing I'd really like is the ability to obtain a sound project from IRM by email, locked to a particular decoder.

Some sound project businesses do this where you give them the serial number of the decoder along with the payment and they email you a locked file that will only work in that decoder. There are no postal costs/risks. Completely digital business. 

Failing that, I would also be happy if I could buy the physical IRM decoder but receive a backup sound project locked to that particular decoder.

Why? Because I want to be able to play around with my decoders without fear of losing an irreplaceable sound file through a false click. I can back up the settings stuff but not the sound part.

Please at least bear these options in mind for the future  I'm aware that there is an overhead involved but IRM could put in a disclaimer that once the file is emailed it's up to the owner to back it up in a safe place and that IRM will not provide endless backups to careless owners.

You can't lose or delete a soundfile by messing around with the decoder settings either with the Lokprogrammer or by manual programming on the layout. You can alter CV's which may affect the way the sounds operate but these can be restored by a reset, this doesn't affect the loaded soundfile, contrary to what many people seem to think.

That said I would also like to see IRM and Murphy Models at least consider trying to supply the files to customers if it's at all possible.

21 hours ago, murphaph said:

Maybe I'm tone deaf but the ESU v5 file for the 12-645 NT variant sounds close enough to the A for me!

It certainly has that throaty growl.

I haven't really listened to any of the V5 files, but if it sounds good enough for you then use it!

The turbo is what gives the 071 the distinctive whine, but the real answer gets a little more complicated! The A class has a very different exhaust system to any of the EMD locomotives that use the non turbo 645.  If you listen to any of the EMD locos you'll find they all sound pretty similar regardless of the number of cylinders in the prime mover. There really is no prime mover in the ESU library that matches it. I made a soundfile for my kit-built A class which used an older non turbo 567 which had a very unusual low growl to it. I've actually forgotten which file I took it from! 

To be honest I'll probably end up purchasing the bespoke decoders from IRM for my A classes when they arrive.

Are all the 121's due to arrive by air or is it just the RPSI locos?

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:58 PM, Georgeconna said:

Sweet, I'll look forward to the 3 hours Sams train version at a later stage.

Yeah that guy's channel annoys the hell out of me! High quality camera, decent looking room setup, then he unboxes models worth a couple of hundred euros and runs them on the fuck@*g floor!

I read somewhere that CIE wanted GM from the beginning but a lack of available US currency resulted in them turning to the UK.

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

 

I suspect the v5 can do this but the v4 cannot, hence a project file that has all the FT sounds but relies on a logical function for the crucial drive hold feature, will not be marked as FT because on the v4 it won't work as expected.

The v5 is still very new to the US I think so information on the internet is scarce and most European modellers don't seem to care for the features.

 

 

I haven't bought a V5 yet or even opened a V5 project in the Lokprogrammer software so I'm a little in the dark on the details. I didn't know that Drive Hold, Coast And Run 8 were now logical functions as opposed to sound slots in the file. Hopefully this means any V5 project can use these features. This is good news, as I was worried that the upcoming MM decoders for the 121 locos would not have these features. As you say, those features aren't really of interest to the European market.

As regards V5 vs V4 compatibility; V4 projects will work in V5 decoders. Now whether you need to use the sound slots to implement Drive hold/Coast/Run 8 or logic functions I really don't know.

V5 projects however will NOT work in V4 decoders.

That's nice, neat work. My version was a little more involved

1 hour ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Ok here goes. Firstly one word of caution is that this worked ok for me on my layout with a minimum radius of 24inches. 
Cut off coupling mount from the locomotive’s bogie. 
Then take the valance in the detail pack and cut a small slot. 
Then glue a NEM coupler pocket to the back of the valance in line with the slot. 
Once the glue is dried fit the Kadee NEM style coupler. 
Then fit to loco. I haven’t glued this to the loco and so far haven’t had any issues. 
Hope the photos make this all clear. 
Total time 30 minutes both ends. 

 

That's neat work. My own method was a but more invoved...

Like you mentioned I was'nt confident the NEM couplers would pivot enough for tighter curves so I installed draft box Kadees instead.

16 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Yes I have modified them. Would you like photos of how I did it?

Yes please! I've done the same with my locos but I'm always interested in any techniques I can steal!

Another great video!

Did you modify the coupling on 171? It seems like you have the valance fitted.

3 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

The F5 function on a MM 201 sound chip is for the compressor.

The manuals are available as downloads on the MM website.

Yeah F9 is the fan.

48 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The MM ESU file for the 201 has a fan function (I think F5). Is that the resistor bank cooling fan noise?

I assume this is just the radiator cooling fan.

8 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'll have to check the manual. The ESU download page isn't specific.

When you actually get into programming the soundfile on the Lokprogrammer you also have logic functions in the decoder that are labelled as "dynamic brake" which are used to control normal braking on the loco.