irishthump

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Been reading a lot about US donors for prime mover sounds on this and other threads, but it's not that simple really. The 567, 645 and 710 have a number of different cylinder configurations. For instance, I heard a custom done 071 sound project a while ago, and it didnt sound right. The sound for the turbo 645 was likely from an SD40-2, which has 16 cylinders, whereas the 071 only has 12. It's a slight difference but it is different. are the sounds taking from a 645 E3? F3? etc. 

567s are the same, the 121 and 141 are 8 cylinder, but very few (if any other than an SW900!) American locos had prime movers that small. An F unit has 16, and therefore there is subtle differences in the sound. I understand that this may not matter to some, but why go to all the trouble to make something that is wrong, rather than off the shelf that is right and put together by ESU themselves? I would just go for the bespoke chips for these and will be for my 121s I do fit sound to.

201s too. a 12 cylinder 710 as in a 201 sounds quite different to a 20 cylinder 710 in an SD80MAC. 

Of course the EMD fitted A Class sounds like nothing else due to its exhaust silencing, which is totally different to any other EMD engine'ed loco. This is why we went to such efforts to create the sound project for this. 

Anyway, just my tuppance worth on the issue. It's your model train at the end of the day!

Cheers!

Fran

There are files for engine model used in the 121 and 141 locos (8 cylinder 567CR).

Same for the 181 (8 cylinder 645E non turbo)

There are 2 different sounding files with 645E3 turbo which  works for the 071.

They even list the files as being suitable for the EMD JL8, GL8, JL18 and JT22CW models in their descriptions.

The 201 is the only sticking point, there was a file for the 12 cylinder 710G3B which I downloaded for my lone 201 model. But that file does'nt appear to be there anymore. Again the 16 cylinder is there in several versions.

As Fran said they have many other files with different cylinder configurations and while there is a difference in sound between them its damn hard to hear in an OO gauge model. It might be more noticeable in the new V5 decoders as they have improved sound quality but it remains to be seen.

Again as Fran said there is no file available to match the A Class. I used a 567 which had a somewhat similar sound but it's not the same by any means.

1 hour ago, Garfield said:

They should be available in the decoders sold here... our A Class decoders will have those features.  

Hopefully the 121's will be the same. Not trying to scaremonger, just want the decoders to be as good as the models, be a shame for the sound to let the 121's down.

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Cheers for the clarification Noel. I picked up a used Lokprogrammer on eBay already and I can get used Loksound V4 units for €80 so that's the direction I'm heading in for those two classes as I will have quite a good few locos to equip.

I can live with "good but not the best" given the significant savings across a fleet of what will be around 30 or 40 locos in the end.

From my understanding the Lokprogrammer allows you to reformat any v4 project to v5 so even if I can no longer get the v4s I should have a fallback.

The V5 decoders are backward compatible with the V4 sound files and will work just fine. I've not even tried the V5's yet, I believe the sound is far superior and they have other features like variable brake settings but I get along fine with the V4's. I do have 2 V5's ordered for my 121's though.

In my opinion the Lokprogrammer is the very best option. Building an original sound file from scratch is very labour intensive and requires knowing the workings of the programmer and decoders inside out. I haven't even tried it myself. As Noel mentioned I made my own files but they are simply the Murphy Models OEM files. I simply replaced the engine with one from ESU's vast library of US sound files. These have all been updated with the improved driving features mentioned above. This is simple to do, basically a drag-and-drop operation. They have files with the EXACT engine model used in all of the Irish GM locos. In most cases they have MULTIPLE examples so you can have different sounding engines across your fleet. Like I said this is a simple thing to do and you could get to grips with this is a couple of afternoons.

The likes of Wheeltappers and DCCSoundguy make great products but there's an awful lot to be said for being able to do this yourself at home. Yes you save around €30 per decoder but when you order decoders with loaded files from the other suppliers you have to wait for them to arrive then you might not be entirely happy with what you get, and you're stuck with it unless you want to send it back to be reprogrammed. If you have the Lokprogrammer you just load a different file!

On a side note I'm a bit worried about the upcoming decoder for the 121. It's a V5 but I have a feeling it may not have the Full Throttle and Brake features. These have to be built into sound file itself and only the US sound files are built this way. They were created by the US end of the ESU operation and if you look at all of the European sound files which were created by the EU side of ESU you'll see none of them have these features.

15 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I have no experience of 3D print stuff, other than Silverfox models (am I right in believing that their stuff is produced this way?), so having noted the above, I wonder what opinions there might be about its suitability for "0" gauge?

A friend is currently putting together an "0" scale shunting layout, and I would pass on to him any relevant opinions.......

Silver Fox are moulded resin, so the finish is a lot smoother. Whatever scale your modelling in a 3D printed model will require some finishing to removing print lines but if you're prepared to put in some work or if you can live with a cruder finish then there's no reason not to use printed models in O gauge.

On 7/25/2020 at 2:49 PM, DiveController said:

Ah, understandable! I guess the surface is still somewhat uneven on the 3D prints. Now the there is a OO 121 I guess these 3-D printed  models will probably phase out although maybe useful in another gauge. I suppose with the current 3D print quality it may not be as useful in N gauge though but maybe better than nothing. Still it was a good bridge until the impending 121s arrived

Despite all the hype around the advances is 3D printing, it's still a long way off being good enough for quality modelling in OO gauge let alone N gauge. 

Trouble is once you ballast the track it really doesn’t make much difference, it’s only marginally quieter.

On 6/24/2020 at 8:27 PM, controller said:

Thanks Noel. I am glad I asked first before I went buying a LokProgammer. I have two 121 sound decoders ordered and payed for from Marks. I also have an A class ordered from IRM.I have two 071 and a 201 which are fitted with sound decoders. I have a couple of other small locos. Not a huge collection. I don't even have a permanent layout. When funds allow, I will look into wheeltappers for decoders for my two 141s. Like you say , I may be able to adjust some CV settings using my DCC controller. No doubt when all locos are delivered, I will be back to look for your help again.

Thanks,

Controller.

Bear in mind the 121 chips will be a good fit for the 141/181’s as well. Even though they will be programmed for the specific lighting on the 121’s PCB it should work fine on a simpler loco like the 141/181. Even if the lighting is a little screwed up it would be a simple fix.

10 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Or just buy the Murphy Models sound decoder, plug it into the loco, and off you go. Plug and play, nice and simple. 

Exactly. I ordered the MM decoders for my 121’s. I love using the Lokprogrammer but if you can save yourself the work why not? I would have needed to buy decoders for them anyway!

32 minutes ago, Noel said: It's easy to get the sound of Irish horns from all the youtube videos out there, just record a second or two using a smartphone from a youtube video, or mix it a little using iMovie, clean it up and save as an mp3 or WAV file for use with a LokProgrammer project. There's loads of sounds that can be scraped from the internet.

It’s not that simple. Even a simple horn sound has quite a complex sound schedule that needs to be built from scratch. 

16 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

I was talking about the Sound chip, I presume a standard chip might be OK but as I said because the PCB board and the chip were designed to work together there may be some warranty issues by using non MM chips, 

There would be no problem arising from using a different sound decoder. All they mean is that the MM chip has already been programmed to have all the lighting functions available, any  other decoder would need to be programmed with the correct functions. The 121 decoder is physically no different from any other ESU decoder, they just have the lighting functions programmed in already. If you buy a blank version of the same decoder you’ll need to programme these yourself which is a nightmare without a Lokprogrammer!

I think the point of the disclaimer is so that MM don’t have people sticking in a different decoder then ringing him an complaining - “the lights don’t work”. It’s the same issue people had with the 201 when it first came out. It has so many light functions that it needs a higher spec decoder for them to work.

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 11:08 AM, BosKonay said:

Drop us aline - perhaps your email or mobile number is incorrect in the system?

Sorry just saw this now! Yeah I'll do that. Come to think of it I don't seem to have an actual account at all.

15 hours ago, Edo said:

I got mine today - a week after notification - in the mid west. I think one of the issues is the Royal Mail - it didnt leave the UK until Monday evening - the other issue is the lack of aircraft going between here and Uk compared to normal - its 95% down on normal.

Funny, I got no notification or tracking info and received my wagons yesterday morning.

14 minutes ago, controller said:

I have two 121 locos on order, black with white stripes. Which sound decoders do I need for these locos, EDM645 or EDM567?,or is there any difference?.

Thanks,

Controller.

The 121's were fitted with the EMD567 at that time.

1 minute ago, Noel said:

The difference in sound is negligible to many ears, but I guess the Black&Tan livery (ie black, white band, tan solebar) which ran from 1963 to about 1974-6 was powered by the original EMD567 engines, The other thought that occurred to me from experience is that running two locos in consist both with sound on can sound a bit dizzy and confused. Some sound decoder projects allow you to vary the engine note using a CV setting (ie so two locos do not sound identical). Personally when I run pairs of baby GMs in consist I only turn the sound on in the lead loco, because it just sounds better than two. But that's just me. Others might quite like both with sound on. WheelTappersDCCsound who did the decoders for all my baby GMs offered 3 engine pitch versions so that in consist a pair would not sound identical. I am making an assumption that the Murphy model commissioned chip may have a CV setting to facilitate something similar. There are subtle things when consisting sound locos, for instance you only want the horn to sound on the lead loco, but you want both to make braking noises at the same time, and only the tail loco to make uncoupling noises or buffer clash when commanded, etc. Then there's the whole area of running lights on a consist, set up for running as a pair hauling a train with brake lights at the end when travelling locos only (ie light engines) so brake lights on trailing loco, etc. All to look forward to exploring when the new models hit the rails.

The pitch of the engine sound can be tweaked up or down on the Loksound decoders. I use the Lokprogrammer to do mine but it can be done with CV's easily enough. The same with the various sound functions, you can set up a loco so that only certain sounds will play while the loco is in consist. I do this with my own locos.

16 minutes ago, David Holman said:

This is turning into a fun exercise. Five non Irish locos?

 

EMD F7

EMD GP7

BR Deltic

BR Class 08

Soviet M62

34 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

No customs Duty mate on Models, Just VAT upon importation to Europe so post Brexit if you buy in the UK there will be no UK Vat Applied so that will be applied upon importation here and maybe a Processing fee so if our friends in Revenue let one or two slip through then quids in.

In relation to the Irish RRP, The reason the price is lower in the UK is mostly due to wealth of competition, There is mostly none here so of course no discounting for the Punters, So Full Price please Sir for the time being until maybe year or so of them sitting on the shelves  when they drop 30 notes or such.

Irish people are used to paying over the odds at this stage, From Panadol Tablets to Cars but perhaps that.s for another forum altogether.

 

 

 

 

 

 

VAT or no VAT, the savings from Hattons aren't always so hot. I've ordered from them once in the past, purely because Mark's was out of stock and I couldn't wait. The order was for general stuff, track, underlay etc. no big ticket items. After shipping was all added in it was actually slightly more expensive!

Something else that occurred to me, and it may be perceived as a downside to the cheap price from Hattons...

How many 121's will get snapped up by Ebay Vultures in the UK and elsewhere? I can see them being bought in bulk at the cheaper price, hoarded until stocks run out, then sold off at crazy prices. Yes I know this happens all the time, but with the hype around these locos many will see an opportunity.....

23 hours ago, RedRich said:

I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about prudence or saving a few quid. I have always supported local or Irish traders and always will. I budget for what I need and if it keeps people in work then the ends justify the means for me.

Rich

What makes me laugh, and I've said this already, is that certain people are talking about saving a few quid in a situation where it's not a matter of the saving allowing you to buy a loco for yourself because you're cash strapped. It s a case of - "Oh look, I can buy 5 locos instead of 4!".

1 hour ago, DB JOE said:

 OOOHHH GOD!!!!!    My poor credit card!!!!!

I paid for mine back in 2018.... so it’s all gravy now!

And congrats to the lads in IRM. As I said on the Facebook page, these look bloody mouth watering!

50 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

It does not.

Even all wheel pickup can hit dirt and issues which will impact (in particular) lighting and sound. Nothing worse than a sound chip resetting to engine start just because you drove the loco across a point

Yeah, fair enough. I use insulfrogs o my own layout but I solder jumpers between the stock and switch rails so I'm not relying on contact between the two. Consequently I don't have issues, except where I've neglected to clean the track in a while! Bear in mind that's with 4 and 6 axle locos. 2 or 3 axles have issue and are always prone to that type of problem. 

48 minutes ago, patrick said:

Will the 121 have a power pack capacitor like the forthcoming MIR A class? 

I think space would really be an issue there. Anyway with all-wheel pick you shouldn't have problems. I could never understand US modeller's (other than yourself) obsession with power packs. Most of there loco's are 4 or 6 axle with power pickup on all axles.

8 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

I think the board was the problem and it had to be rejigged to allow the lok chip to be installed

That would make sense, the Loksound tends to sit a bit higher than other decoders.

10 hours ago, BosKonay said:

The 121 decoders are standard lokSound and lokpilot v5 units. The sound files are copyrighted to Murphy models and will not ever be released on the ESU website. In this regard the setup is identical to the soon to be released A class project. 
 

hope that helps clarify 

I know this is a little outside your wheelhouse, so to speak, but would you guys consider offering a decoder re-blow service?

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Yea the reason for that is only the ESU chips commissioned by MM will actually fit in the restricted space within the 121 body shell. Off the shelf ESU decoders apparently will not physically fit. This is in part caused by squeezing in all the gubbins MM designed into the 121 bodyshell, especially the see through grills, flywheels, PCB and speaker, etc. MM has managed to squeeze an awful lot into a limited space, so no room for a big lump of a 21pin decoder. The sound files will in time be published on the ESU library, so anybody who likes to roll their own with a LokProgrammer should still be able to do so as long as its with the MM commissioned compact ESU decoders.

I'd be very surprised if space was the issue. Loksound are not the smallest of decoders and from what I've heard there's space enough for them to fit. I've also heard nothing on the grapevine to suggest ESU have designed a bespoke decoder just for this loco. (If anybody has heard different please chime in.) I'd say it's more to do with the array of lighting functions in the loco. Plugging in a bog standard decoder will result in some lights not working as intended, similar to what people discovered installing standard decoders in their 201's.

29 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Would this has something to do with the 6 pairs of Sulzer engines ordered by 1948. The engines were for new Diesel locos cancelled by the Milne report. However with contracts signed they ended up stored at Inchicore before being used for the B101 class a few years later

Those engines were originally to be used for 6 double engined locos to be used for express passenger services.

Are these PM’s sound decoders?

Here’s another one of those “on a whim” projects that every modeller is guilty of...

 I have an old Hornby HST which I re-motored a few years ago. It ran well but I was never completely happy with it. I wanted to find a replacement chassis that I could perhaps shoehorn into the body. I had a Bachmann class 25 chassis which happened to have the correct wheel spacing on the bogies but was too short. I ended up cutting and lengthening the metal frame and fitting it to the original plastic under frame on the HST. I then fixed the side plates from the original  bogies to the Bachmann ones. I also had to lengthen the front drive shaft with styrene tube. It runs smoothly but is  a little noisy, but since I’ll eventually install a sound decoder I don’t think it matters too much!

First pic is the original chassis and motor bogies.

Second pic shows the Bachmann chassis and bogies fitted into the original body with the bogie side frames also fitted.

Last pic is the finished loco next to the dummy car from the same set.

Wow, that's great info!

Thanks for the detailed response.