irishthump

1 hour ago, DART8118 said:

Has anyone a CVs fix for headlights and sidelights alternating on/off (i.e., flashing) after lowering CVs for engine sound and airhorn?  Want to revert to the standard steady lights.  Chip is MM0055, loco is MM071 and controller is PowerCab?  Trying to avoid the CV 8 solution.

Many thanks in advance.

8118

 

 

Yeah you need to do a hard reset, it sounds like the decoder has gotten itself in a twist!

8 hours ago, murphaph said:

So I will install a miniature relay and instead of the common return from the red LEDs going through that switch, it will be connected to either side of the n.o. terminals of the relay. The default state for these lights should be off as locos will generally not be running light engine and thus the red marker lights will be off more often than they are on so it's better to have the default state of the relay as not energised.

The relay coil will be driven by aux 5 with return to the common positive of the decoder.  Very simple job but adds a lot IMO. I will do all the soldering on the loco board rather than touch the decoder. The decoder should still be removable. 

As the proud owner of zero baby GMs I have no idea about the wiring but if I did get one I imagine I would also want the same lighting setup as on a 201 to be honest. If there are no cab lights I would probably add them.

This type of mod is way above my skill level so I'm very interested to see how that works out. It would be great if you can take a few pictures of the install.

Space is VERY limited inside the baby GMs, so I'm not sure how you would handle the lighting mods.

2 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

They certainly seemed popular and we wouldnt rule out a rerun in the future for sure!

Thanks to everyone who ordered! 

As someone who missed the boat on these, a rerun would certainly be welcome!

Interesting stuff. Does the extra output you require need to be hardwired to one of the 21 pin connections?

On the subject of the V4 vs V5, nearly all suppliers stopped selling V4's as soon as the V5 was released. ESU were clever enough to not make the V5 more expensive!

If I were you I'd use the V4 in a 141/181. The lighting in those locos is very basic. Unless of course you want to modify the light setup.

12 minutes ago, murphaph said:

So I took a closer look inside. The LEDs are hardwired together from pins 7 and 8 of the decoder, ie when pin 7 is pulled low, the white marker lights at end A go on while the red marker lights at end B go on. 

There is a spdt switch under the loco which allows the path from the red led (led3 according to the silkscreen) to the positive common on the decoder to be interrupted, leaving the red led off.

Helpfully, not, the led silkscreen has the incorrect polarity for those 3 LEDs and it took me a while to figure that out. The cathode chamfer on the larger white LEDs is not visible unless under magnification. I trusted the silkscreen.

Yeah I thought that was the case. The only option is to use the switch to disable the red marker lights. Unless you want to rewire.....

I wouldn't even attempt this  tweak without using the Lokprogrammer! Yes, you can do it with CV's but the Loksound and Lokpilot use indexed CV's which need to other values adjusted before you can change any CV's above no. 255. If you don't set the correct index you can put the decoder in a tailspin!

I 'd have to check but I don't think the 201's front and back marker lights can be set independently of each other. Is there a switch on the 201 for turning marker lights off while in analogue mode?

Eoin that's cracking work!

Incredible! Well worth the wait!

14 hours ago, mmie353 said:

@Noel Actually since I posted, I did reach out to Wheeltappers and I was advised on the DCC decoders, I will be wanting to get them for my locomotives and I will look at slowly getting them but I am trying to get them here in the US, the issue is that the North American market have a different DCC decoder that is available in Europe and hence I have to get anything in the US re-blown and I can get the files from them. I was trying to see what the difference is as I was provided the part numbers for the European ones but of course, I cannot locate them here in the US. 

I am still wondering, what is the difference between the US and the European ones and I will need to work with Wheeltappers once I get some. I am not sure the way things are going if this will be this year when I start this or next year. I was actually looking again last night on sound decoders as I cannot just go to my local store as they advised they do not carry them but i have to meet the owner to confirm as they are listed as a store you can buy them on the ESU website.

Later all

Mark

 

The main Loksound decoder used in the US is the Loksound Select. This is a slightly lower spec then the V4 or V5. Files for the Select decoders can not be customised like  V4 and V5 Loksound files and are generally smaller as the select has less memory.

There are also 2 different versions of the V5 being released for US and Euro market. The V5 is the standard EU decoder and works with DCC as well as other control protocols. The V5 DCC is only available in the US and is DCC/Railcom only. I've heard it also has some differences in the brake features but I have'nt been able to find out much more than that. So the upshot is that you can only purchase the V5 DCC on your side of the pond. However, that should'nt matter. If you can get the files from Wheeltappers they will still work as the 2 versions are identical in all respects except for the ones I mentioned above.

46 minutes ago, murphaph said:

 

If you do reprogram your 121s where would you get the ancillary sounds (horn especially)?

Well to be honest I'd probably use the old MM 071 file and just change the engine sound. 

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

Hi Dave, Unfortunately not that simple, MM don't have any for 141,181. Also  the 071 and 201 from both MrSoundGuy and WheelTappers are much better to drive than MM0044 and MM0055. I've ordered a number of MM121 decoders for the imminent 121s and just hoping they have some of the advanced prototypical driving features like coasting, braking, throttle hold, etc, that I've got used to with WheelTappers and MrSoundGuy. It's nice to drive them like the real thing, stopping a train by merely  reducing throttle without needing to brake is just so scalextric!   

Those 121 decoders will work fine for the 141/181 locos as well. You MAY have some trouble with the lights but that's easily sorted.

26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

What about the EMD 12-710G3A LATE EXH T?

ESU returns this with a reference to the 201 if you search ESU for "Irish".

Well I missed that one! Apparently I was only searching the V4 files. 

That engine sound would be perfect for a 201.

1 minute ago, Warbonnet said:

The craic starts when you compare a modern day 071 and an NIR 111. I'm convinced they sound slightly different due to the engine upgrades the 071s got, but I might be going mad (and I am slightly deaf to say the least, but maybe someone can confirm or deny this sound difference!) 

Cheers!

Fran

Have'nt a clue. That's too far down the bleedin' rabbit hole!

I know I loaded the 2 different sounds to my pair of 071's. One has a higher idle sound which I thought would be quiet plausible. If you watch any of the many videos on Youtube you'll notice that no two locos sound the same!

4 minutes ago, murphaph said:

 

What exactly do you mean here? Would you be left with anything of the MM sound file following this reprogramming?

 

No when you reprogram a decoder you need to completely replace the existing sound file. So you can't take a pre programmed decoder and simply change the engine or horn sounds and keep the rest. You need to load a complete file.

33 minutes ago, murphaph said:

For this reason I'll probably opt for the IRM chips but for the 121 I'm still undecided.

 

I don't see any reason to not get the 121 decoders even if you have the Lokprogrammer.  The engine and horn sounds are great from what we've heard in the short videos that were posted here and if they come with the Full Throttle features then happy days! If they don't then I'll most likely reprogram the decoders. Personally I'd rather have better driving characteristics than 100% authentic sounds, but that's just me.

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Been reading a lot about US donors for prime mover sounds on this and other threads, but it's not that simple really. The 567, 645 and 710 have a number of different cylinder configurations. For instance, I heard a custom done 071 sound project a while ago, and it didnt sound right. The sound for the turbo 645 was likely from an SD40-2, which has 16 cylinders, whereas the 071 only has 12. It's a slight difference but it is different. are the sounds taking from a 645 E3? F3? etc. 

567s are the same, the 121 and 141 are 8 cylinder, but very few (if any other than an SW900!) American locos had prime movers that small. An F unit has 16, and therefore there is subtle differences in the sound. I understand that this may not matter to some, but why go to all the trouble to make something that is wrong, rather than off the shelf that is right and put together by ESU themselves? I would just go for the bespoke chips for these and will be for my 121s I do fit sound to.

201s too. a 12 cylinder 710 as in a 201 sounds quite different to a 20 cylinder 710 in an SD80MAC. 

Of course the EMD fitted A Class sounds like nothing else due to its exhaust silencing, which is totally different to any other EMD engine'ed loco. This is why we went to such efforts to create the sound project for this. 

Anyway, just my tuppance worth on the issue. It's your model train at the end of the day!

Cheers!

Fran

There are files for engine model used in the 121 and 141 locos (8 cylinder 567CR).

Same for the 181 (8 cylinder 645E non turbo)

There are 2 different sounding files with 645E3 turbo which  works for the 071.

They even list the files as being suitable for the EMD JL8, GL8, JL18 and JT22CW models in their descriptions.

The 201 is the only sticking point, there was a file for the 12 cylinder 710G3B which I downloaded for my lone 201 model. But that file does'nt appear to be there anymore. Again the 16 cylinder is there in several versions.

As Fran said they have many other files with different cylinder configurations and while there is a difference in sound between them its damn hard to hear in an OO gauge model. It might be more noticeable in the new V5 decoders as they have improved sound quality but it remains to be seen.

Again as Fran said there is no file available to match the A Class. I used a 567 which had a somewhat similar sound but it's not the same by any means.

1 hour ago, Garfield said:

They should be available in the decoders sold here... our A Class decoders will have those features.  

Hopefully the 121's will be the same. Not trying to scaremonger, just want the decoders to be as good as the models, be a shame for the sound to let the 121's down.

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Cheers for the clarification Noel. I picked up a used Lokprogrammer on eBay already and I can get used Loksound V4 units for €80 so that's the direction I'm heading in for those two classes as I will have quite a good few locos to equip.

I can live with "good but not the best" given the significant savings across a fleet of what will be around 30 or 40 locos in the end.

From my understanding the Lokprogrammer allows you to reformat any v4 project to v5 so even if I can no longer get the v4s I should have a fallback.

The V5 decoders are backward compatible with the V4 sound files and will work just fine. I've not even tried the V5's yet, I believe the sound is far superior and they have other features like variable brake settings but I get along fine with the V4's. I do have 2 V5's ordered for my 121's though.

In my opinion the Lokprogrammer is the very best option. Building an original sound file from scratch is very labour intensive and requires knowing the workings of the programmer and decoders inside out. I haven't even tried it myself. As Noel mentioned I made my own files but they are simply the Murphy Models OEM files. I simply replaced the engine with one from ESU's vast library of US sound files. These have all been updated with the improved driving features mentioned above. This is simple to do, basically a drag-and-drop operation. They have files with the EXACT engine model used in all of the Irish GM locos. In most cases they have MULTIPLE examples so you can have different sounding engines across your fleet. Like I said this is a simple thing to do and you could get to grips with this is a couple of afternoons.

The likes of Wheeltappers and DCCSoundguy make great products but there's an awful lot to be said for being able to do this yourself at home. Yes you save around €30 per decoder but when you order decoders with loaded files from the other suppliers you have to wait for them to arrive then you might not be entirely happy with what you get, and you're stuck with it unless you want to send it back to be reprogrammed. If you have the Lokprogrammer you just load a different file!

On a side note I'm a bit worried about the upcoming decoder for the 121. It's a V5 but I have a feeling it may not have the Full Throttle and Brake features. These have to be built into sound file itself and only the US sound files are built this way. They were created by the US end of the ESU operation and if you look at all of the European sound files which were created by the EU side of ESU you'll see none of them have these features.

15 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I have no experience of 3D print stuff, other than Silverfox models (am I right in believing that their stuff is produced this way?), so having noted the above, I wonder what opinions there might be about its suitability for "0" gauge?

A friend is currently putting together an "0" scale shunting layout, and I would pass on to him any relevant opinions.......

Silver Fox are moulded resin, so the finish is a lot smoother. Whatever scale your modelling in a 3D printed model will require some finishing to removing print lines but if you're prepared to put in some work or if you can live with a cruder finish then there's no reason not to use printed models in O gauge.

On 7/25/2020 at 2:49 PM, DiveController said:

Ah, understandable! I guess the surface is still somewhat uneven on the 3D prints. Now the there is a OO 121 I guess these 3-D printed  models will probably phase out although maybe useful in another gauge. I suppose with the current 3D print quality it may not be as useful in N gauge though but maybe better than nothing. Still it was a good bridge until the impending 121s arrived

Despite all the hype around the advances is 3D printing, it's still a long way off being good enough for quality modelling in OO gauge let alone N gauge. 

Trouble is once you ballast the track it really doesn’t make much difference, it’s only marginally quieter.

On 6/24/2020 at 8:27 PM, controller said:

Thanks Noel. I am glad I asked first before I went buying a LokProgammer. I have two 121 sound decoders ordered and payed for from Marks. I also have an A class ordered from IRM.I have two 071 and a 201 which are fitted with sound decoders. I have a couple of other small locos. Not a huge collection. I don't even have a permanent layout. When funds allow, I will look into wheeltappers for decoders for my two 141s. Like you say , I may be able to adjust some CV settings using my DCC controller. No doubt when all locos are delivered, I will be back to look for your help again.

Thanks,

Controller.

Bear in mind the 121 chips will be a good fit for the 141/181’s as well. Even though they will be programmed for the specific lighting on the 121’s PCB it should work fine on a simpler loco like the 141/181. Even if the lighting is a little screwed up it would be a simple fix.

10 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Or just buy the Murphy Models sound decoder, plug it into the loco, and off you go. Plug and play, nice and simple. 

Exactly. I ordered the MM decoders for my 121’s. I love using the Lokprogrammer but if you can save yourself the work why not? I would have needed to buy decoders for them anyway!

32 minutes ago, Noel said: It's easy to get the sound of Irish horns from all the youtube videos out there, just record a second or two using a smartphone from a youtube video, or mix it a little using iMovie, clean it up and save as an mp3 or WAV file for use with a LokProgrammer project. There's loads of sounds that can be scraped from the internet.

It’s not that simple. Even a simple horn sound has quite a complex sound schedule that needs to be built from scratch. 

16 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

I was talking about the Sound chip, I presume a standard chip might be OK but as I said because the PCB board and the chip were designed to work together there may be some warranty issues by using non MM chips, 

There would be no problem arising from using a different sound decoder. All they mean is that the MM chip has already been programmed to have all the lighting functions available, any  other decoder would need to be programmed with the correct functions. The 121 decoder is physically no different from any other ESU decoder, they just have the lighting functions programmed in already. If you buy a blank version of the same decoder you’ll need to programme these yourself which is a nightmare without a Lokprogrammer!

I think the point of the disclaimer is so that MM don’t have people sticking in a different decoder then ringing him an complaining - “the lights don’t work”. It’s the same issue people had with the 201 when it first came out. It has so many light functions that it needs a higher spec decoder for them to work.

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 11:08 AM, BosKonay said:

Drop us aline - perhaps your email or mobile number is incorrect in the system?

Sorry just saw this now! Yeah I'll do that. Come to think of it I don't seem to have an actual account at all.

15 hours ago, Edo said:

I got mine today - a week after notification - in the mid west. I think one of the issues is the Royal Mail - it didnt leave the UK until Monday evening - the other issue is the lack of aircraft going between here and Uk compared to normal - its 95% down on normal.

Funny, I got no notification or tracking info and received my wagons yesterday morning.

14 minutes ago, controller said:

I have two 121 locos on order, black with white stripes. Which sound decoders do I need for these locos, EDM645 or EDM567?,or is there any difference?.

Thanks,

Controller.

The 121's were fitted with the EMD567 at that time.

1 minute ago, Noel said:

The difference in sound is negligible to many ears, but I guess the Black&Tan livery (ie black, white band, tan solebar) which ran from 1963 to about 1974-6 was powered by the original EMD567 engines, The other thought that occurred to me from experience is that running two locos in consist both with sound on can sound a bit dizzy and confused. Some sound decoder projects allow you to vary the engine note using a CV setting (ie so two locos do not sound identical). Personally when I run pairs of baby GMs in consist I only turn the sound on in the lead loco, because it just sounds better than two. But that's just me. Others might quite like both with sound on. WheelTappersDCCsound who did the decoders for all my baby GMs offered 3 engine pitch versions so that in consist a pair would not sound identical. I am making an assumption that the Murphy model commissioned chip may have a CV setting to facilitate something similar. There are subtle things when consisting sound locos, for instance you only want the horn to sound on the lead loco, but you want both to make braking noises at the same time, and only the tail loco to make uncoupling noises or buffer clash when commanded, etc. Then there's the whole area of running lights on a consist, set up for running as a pair hauling a train with brake lights at the end when travelling locos only (ie light engines) so brake lights on trailing loco, etc. All to look forward to exploring when the new models hit the rails.

The pitch of the engine sound can be tweaked up or down on the Loksound decoders. I use the Lokprogrammer to do mine but it can be done with CV's easily enough. The same with the various sound functions, you can set up a loco so that only certain sounds will play while the loco is in consist. I do this with my own locos.