Mayner

Funnily enough reliable operation during leaf fall was supposed to be one of the major advantages of the 121 hauled MK3 push-pull stock over railcars on the Drogheda suburban trains.

Oliver Doyle wrote about placing the loco at the North end of the train and propelling towards Dublin was to reduce wheel slip on up morning suburban trains.

The coaches of a 5 or 6 coach set was supposed to crush and fragment the leaves/ice, and the loco theoretically running in idea rail conditions.

Just to confuse things further some of the GSR built grain hoppers were company wagons and appeared iin GSR ad later CIE livery. The Ranks wagons were private owner and were lettered Ranks Ireland Limited

I have seen a colour photo of one of these wagons in red oxide with broken wheel logo on the scrap line at Mullingar in the late70s

Ranks used these wagons between the elevators at Alexandra Road, Limerick Careys Road and Clara Mill, the wagons also appeared to run in CIE days to grain elevators in Ardee.

The small rectangles beside the rear spectacle plate appear to be the Waterford and Tramore bunker sides. More in the way off a set of scratchbuilders parts than a complete kit.

The safety valve and smoke box door castings are suitable for the period from building up to re-boilering immediately prior to WW1, when the locos appear to have been fitted with more conventional smokebox doors, ejector pipework and ross pop safety valves, but retained their long cast Iron funnels and smoke box wrapper flush with boiler cladding. The later GSR style riveted smokeboxes and built up chimneys appear to have been fitted during the Emergency.

Great Southern Railways by Donal Murray (Ian Allen) has several photos of these locos on branch line workings in GSR days.

I have two of these locos the 1st built nearly 30 years ago with the original brass chassis which actually works, the 2nd with the revised n/s chassis awaiting a new set of coupling rods.

Assembling these kits is probably nearer to scratchbuilding without having to cut out the metal than a modern kit with pre-formed parts, slot and tab construction and multi layer detail.

Both the original and revised frames are unusual in that they were designed to be assembled with the axle bearing for a rocking or sprung axle running in a slot or circular hole in the main frame, rather than separate etched or cast hornblocks commonly used in 4mm scale modelling practice.

The original chassis may be a better starting point for a sprung chassis than the later n/s version

The original brass chassis appears to have been designed with slots for a standard 1/8" top hat or compensated bearing. I used Sharman Flexichassis Brushes for a compensated chassis. The loco is a reasonably good runner despite a 30 year old DS10 motor and a slight waddle, which indicates that the original drafting of the artwork was accurate.

The later n/s chassis was designed for compensated assembly using top hat brushes and equalising beams. I found that the axle holes for the rocking axles were etched oversized for the collar of a 1/8" top hat bearing. The coupling rods appear to be different centres and more fragile than the original brass version, I managed to destroy one of the rods during the final stage of assembly of the second loco

I will probably get around to finishing it some day.

If you fancy a day at the races as far as I recall parts for the extended W&T cab roof and sides are in the fret, and I may have a suitable riveted smokebox somewhere.

Considering how close Killala is to Ballina, there was considerable duplication of facilities, turntable, two-road engine shed and carriage shed. It was clearly intended to part of something bigger.

 

Stephen

The stone or brick built buildings, turntable, two road engine shed and carriage shed were a MGWR standard requirement for Western Branches in the 1890s.

The Achill, Clifden and Killala branches were financed by the Government, Loughea and Ballinrobe by local companies with the ratepayers guaranteeing the capital.

The MGWR was much more demanding of the government in terms of minimum requirements for construction standards and facilities than the GSWR.

The MGWR western branches were much more main line in character than the GSWR Kerry branches which lasted much longer.

The station layout is interesting with a lot more on the traffic than the revenue side.

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,520833,829850,11,9

There may be photographs of the line before closure in the Stephenson Locomotive Society collection http://www.stephensonloco.org.uk/SLSphotocollec.htm.

Some of the UK enthusiasts/photographers may have recorded the Killala Branch as part of their haj. to Achill, Dingle and other threatened lines during the early 30s.

It would be interesting to compare 171 with the Beyer Peacock drawings to see how much of the original was retained in the 1938 renewal of the Class.

In Irish Steam O S Nock describes the renewal as new locomotives rather than rebuilds.

Like the GSWR/GSR renewal of the Coey 321 Class 4-4-0s in the 1920s the renewal of the GNR locos was so extensive that they were practically new locomotives.

The factory would make an interesting model with really large industrial buildings. Although beet traffic appears to have ended in the 60s, CIE operated occasional liner trains in the early 1970s with export sugar to Dublin Port in 8'6" containers on 4 wheel flat wagons. The siding and marshalling yard was still connected to the main line into the mid1980s

The factory was served by a siding which trailed back alongside the Main Line from the station giving the appearance of a double track main line. The track layout at the factory was similar to Mallow and Tuam a marshalling yard with several loops beside the main line and a siding crossing the road on the level into the factory

Graffiti is an odd thing - graffiti often attracts more graffiti.

 

Those who know Stoke on Trent will be familiar with the A500 (D Road) that runs through it - it's been there for forty years in what is a fairly run-down city - I noticed recently that there is virtually no graffiti anywhere along it, yet it is the sort of place that you might expect lots.

 

I once repainted a birdwatching hide that was plastered with graffiti - there was a really good bit in the centre of one wall and we painted round it and left it there. We got lots of criticism for doing that, but my prediction that there would be less graffiti as a result was true - there was hardly any new graffiti for many months afterwards. I'm sure that it would have been revandalised a lot quicker without our little token gesture.

Tolerance to Graffiti is a good example of the Broken Window Theory of criminology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

I don't know about Ireland but lot of graffiti and tags is tied up with street gangs marking out their territory. Tagging a piece of rolling stock looks like a way of laying claim to another gangs territory.

The big question is whether there is a market to support a more reasonably priced range of kits or building detail packs.

Most people seem to be reasonably happy with mass produced buildings and kits that were intended for the UK market, a small number of modellers scratch build Irish buildings and a smaller number still attempting to set their layouts in a distinctly Irish landscape.

Put me down for one pleeze Des.

Always seemed to be one waiting at Island Bridge Junction, when I made the weekly Saturday morning pilgrimage on the 23 bus to Southern Model Railways and Monck Place in my early teens.

Happy days!

Mayner: "The German 1000hp diesel hydraulics just don't add up for working heavy loose coupled goods trains single headed over the more hilly sections of the main line or Derry Road"

 

They'd be used in Multiple, in the very same manner as the Baby GM's down in the Republic. Great Northerns engine policy was like the British Midland, only the traffic levels were smaller.

 

'M is for Midland with engines galore, two on each train and asking for more'

I was thinking mainly in terms of braking power while working heavy loose coupled trains. The WR found that the Warships had insufficient braking power for loose coupled trains, the B101 and A Class were preferred to the Baby GMs which were considered too slippy for goods work.

In Diesel Dawn Colm Flannigan speaks about 800-1000 hp locos capable of hauling a 600ton freight train at 30-35mph or a 180 ton passenger at 70-75mph with 40 for the GNR and 16 for the UTA

Whether this would have allowed sufficient margin to double head Dublin-Belfast and Derry Road freights before the widespread closure of secondary lines is open to question.

While the GNR relied on 4-4-0s & 0-6-0s there is little evidence of Midland style regular double heading of heavy goods and passenger trains. The classic photos are large 4-4-0s with 6-8 coaches on single headed on the climb to Father Murphy's Chappel or on Carrickmore Bank.

Its possible some GNR traffic and engineering people may have been influenced enough by European practice to realise that modern fully fitted wagons would be needed as part of an ever expanding wish list to Stormont and Merrion Street.

One of the more ironical things about the closure of the Derry Road was that Stormont killed of a potentially profitable rail freight operation.

Freight traffic under customs bond from Dundalk to Strabane for County Donegal was very heavy with two or more nightly trains up to closure.

Strabane was in modern terms an inland port for Donegal with County Donegal Railway (CDRJC) road services operating passenger and freight services radiating from Strabane to most of Donegal. CIE only took over from the CDR in 1972.

IThis could have opened up a scenario of the Derry Road staying open as far as Strabane for Donegal freight traffic with an IWT style operation, if the politicians were pragmatic enough or even passenger services through to Foyle Road cross-subsidised by freight access charges.

Possibly Donegal freights operated by CIE or even the CDJR on running powers from Dundalk. The CDJR running leased 001, 071 or Hunslets in Donegal red and cream livery ;)just like the leased CIE busses in the 1960s

JHB

The German 1000hp diesel hydraulics just don't add up for working heavy loose coupled goods trains single headed over the more hilly sections of the main line or Derry Road.

Building new loco maintenance works at Adelaide and buying tower cabbed English Electric A1A A1As would have been more politically acceptable in Northern Ireland than subsidising jobs in the Free State and possibly swayed the powers that be more in favour of keeping the railways.

OOOOOHHHHH, the Public Service's don't they love paperwork, & this information is so important, isn't it !!!

The accountability that the information however trivial represents is the life blood of any democracy

"Ministerial Servicing" is taken very seriously in most democracies. Depending on the quality of information there is a potential for both the Minister and Public Servant to be serviced.

When a question is tabled for question time its basically a case of dropping whatever you are doing sometimes at very short notice and finding the answer for a ministerial question however seemingly trivial or forget about your career prospects as a public service.

The Cardinal sin is supplying a minister with less accurate information than the opposition already have and probably result in a transfer to Antartica or the Blasket Islands.

We tend to treat freedom of information more seriously than in Ireland all requests have to be processed free of charge within 20 days or face similar reprecussions.

Am I imagining it or was there a kit at one time of a laminate brake?

Worsley Works produce sets of scratchbuilders parts for the Laminate 1449-1496 64 Seater Standard open and the 1908-1913 main line Brake Standards

Worsley Works Laminate Brake on temporary bogies finished with Comet Castings SSM decals

Hopefully Des is about to announce the correct 8' Irish lightweight Commonwealth Bogies

As you live in the States it would probably be a better option to use NMRA track and wheel standards and use Walthers or Atlas track rather than than Peco.

Both systems and nearer to full size than Peco in terms of geometry & sleepers look less stubby than Peco.

Murphy Models, Bachmann and modern Hornby wheel profiles are based on an NMRA standard and a gauge is readily available for checking back to backs and other critical dimensions.

Full size point are specified in terms of switch length and crossing angle and the same principal applies regardless of gauge full size or model.

A HO 1:4 point is similar in overall length to a Peco medium radius point a 1:6 to Peco large radius.

I installed some full size point and crossing work on a narrow gauge line in the UK we found that 1:6 was the minimum for a 2-6-2T loco and bogie coaches 1:4 for 4 coupled locos and wagons.

I like the crossing keepers cottage, they were such a feature of the Waterford-Lismore line. All that's needed is herself looking after the gates a lineside vegetable garden and washing line

The MGWR and GNR amalgamating is an interesting one opening up the possibility of greater competition between Belfast and Dublin for cattle traffic from the Midlands and West to either Belfast or Dublin and competition with the GSWR for freight traffic to Limerick.

Amalgamation of the two companies and take over the SLNCR would have opened up the prospect of through Belfast & Sligo passenger services, extending the Belfast-Cavan passenger trains to Mullingar.

A bit like the LNER woks at Doncaster and Darlington it would have made sense to let Broadstone and Dundalk continue overhauling and re-building existing classes until larger more powerful locos were needed.

Amalgamating with the MGWR would have probably strengthened the financial position of the GNR and put off the question of nationalisation for a few years. The GNR was in a worse financial position than the GSR in the 1930s, the MGWR lines from Dublin to Galway, Westport and Sligo were likely to have been more profitable, than the GNR Derry Road and Cross Country lines in Northern Ireland, operating in a monopoly position with heavy livestock traffic and a much longer line haul

Personally I'd have little interest in partial kits such as Worsley Works. A proper kit should supply all the bits needed including assorted transfers, glazing, wheels, bogies, under frame gear, couplings, interior layouts, door handles, grips, roof, vents, pipes, drains, steps, corridor connectors, etc. 'Matchstick' modelling seems more a relic of the 60s before plastics replaced metal - aka Rovex displacing Dublo.

The main issue is the limited demand for kits the majority of modellers appear to be prepared to pay a premium for a rtr Irish model regardless of quality of the finished article or whether a better model can be built from a kit.

The market for kits is a very small sub-sector of the market for Irish models. Etched kits tend to have a lower break-even point than resin or cast metal kits, the market for kits is split roughly 60/40 between Ireland and the UK.

The majority of customers in the UK model Irish railways tend to be builders rather than collectors a high proportion work to EM or S4 standards and prefer to select their own running gear, buffers, wheels, couplings.

Worsley Works business model producing etched parts only has a much lower break even point than a kit manufacturer and can produce a set of parts for a coach or Loco where there may not be enough demand to produce a kit or rtr model.

JHB any idea when goods trains stopped running to Abbeyfeale? The last services to Newcastle West, Ardee, Loughrea and over the Burma Road are all well documented, but nothing on when the Tralee-Abbefeale goods was cut back to Listowel.

The daily Limerick-Tralee goods train was replaced by Limerick-Newcastle & Tralee-Abbeyfeale goods trains in the early 70s and the line over Barnagh closed to regular services, but was open for specials and as a diversionary route

Do, did operating staff refer to a train by it number or by time-direction and destination?

The Weekly Notices and the Appendix to the Working Timetable were a real mine of information, for special and engineers trains, temporary speed limits and other information. One included operating instuctions for loading and unloading Pallet Cement wagons including an isometric drawing

A 141 in NIR maroon, had they listened in 1968/9 to engineering people instead of buying the "Hunslets" for political reasons?

 

That was actually a possibility, and one preferred by their loco people as the Hunslets turned out to be a bad buy, underpowered for what they were required to do.

I don't think anyone at the time on CIE or NIR could see the need for considerably more powerful locomotives. Like the Midland Railway in the early 1900s CIEs plans in the early 70s were based on a fast frequent train service with a small number of uprated 001 Class uprated for Dublin-Tralee trains.

This policy unravelled following the 1st oil crisis double heading and more powerful locos required to keep time with less frequent, heavier trains as traffic increased with fewer people emigrating.

The Hunslets make sense against the loadings at the time, the locos were similar in H.P.and tractive effort to the rebuilt A Class.

The idea of Top & Tail working may have been based on the Edinburgh-Glasgow services of the same era where MK2 coaches topped and tailed by Class 27 locos replaced railcar services.

The NIR management did well to convince their political masters of the need for the new train and that rail had a future. The introduction of the Enterprise and re-opening of the Belfast Central Line was a real turning point in the history of the railways in Northern Ireland.

Giving the brick works its own siding would add to the operation of the layout. Does anyone know when this traffic ended and what kind of wagons were used?

It looks like the brickworks had a siding at one stage http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,679660,795462,11,9. Loading wagons on the running line may have started after the ending of passenger services in the late 1940s.

John O'Meara wrote papers on the Meath Line that were published in the IRRS Journal one in the 1950s and a second more recently.

Brick traffic seems to have been carried in standard open wagons, the railway would have gone by the 1970s when bricks were delivered direct from the works to construction sites using trucks with mechanical grabs.

Gypsum (in opens and hoppers)seems to have been the only traffic handled when I travelled over the line in an IRRS special in 75 or 76, though it looked like the goods shed had been recently used for bagged cement traffic. Navan (GNR) looked very busy at the time with bagged cement (in H Vans) and Guinness traffic.

Skip to the ran sequence around 2:07

The Great Train Robbery was filmed in 77 or 78 with 184 & 186.

184 had a staring role disguised as a English South Eastern Railway 2-2-2 complete with dummy double frames. Most of the movie was filmed around Castletown on the Mullingar-Athlone line, with Moate as Ashford and Heuston temporarily re-named London Bridge.

184 was overhauled in Mullingar for the movie, both locos worked for several years in South Eastern livery and

The American loco looks like something that slipped in during editing.

hahahaha excellent!

 

Our good moderators and ballast wagon vendors will be raising eyes to heaven. Just as well there are no unicorns there.

Reminds me of the Irish Rovers song which almost made me cry as a kit it was so so sad

These days our house is crammed full of Unicorns, Alicorns and Peguases thanks to a little person and My Little Pony