Mayner

Hi George

Looks like I wont need to do tutorial, its great to have a second set of eyes looking over the kit. I hadn't gotten around to fixing a tension lock coupler a pivoting arrangement seems to be the way to go.

The 2-4-0 was a standard passenger/mixed traffic type on the Midland from the 1870s up to the late 1950. Built the 1890s the GSR was impressed enough with the K or GSR 650 class locos to use them on DSER suburban and main line trains.

The Midland had a policy of replacing or "renewing" its loco fleet every 20-25 years, the K Class were renewed in late MGWR/early GSR days with superheater boilers mainly to improve fuel economy.

The appearance of the engines change dramatically, the traditional MGWR 'fly-away" cab was first replaced with a low roofed GNR style cab and later with a GSWR style cab. Upon superheating the locos received flush riveted smokeboxes, later replaced with pop riveted type in late GSR days.

Information is sparse to say the least, while a GA exists for the Beyer Peacock D Class, it took approx. 20 years to un-earth a MGWR & a GSR weight diagram. Oh the K Class valve gear is said to be different in design to the D, Attock had a fundamental re-think in the 1890s and the motion in his later designs is supposed to be similar to Drummond practice.

I ordered two sets of test etches to in brass build a pair of study models on in Midland & one in later GSR condition. The engraver accidentally supplied another two sets in nickel silver how could I refuse , I might as well build a pair for myself:).

I intend modelling the locos in CIE condition so they can rub side sheets with AEC railcars and possibly even a B141 diesel.

While the body fret is in brass the chassis is in n/s for strength. I was intending to do a how to on assembling the frame but seem to have missed out. At this stage I have fitted the fore and rear frame spacers, motion bracket and a representation of the inside cylinders.

I have built a OO gauge study model with a rigid chassis and Romford Wheels, but I am trying a beam equalisation system on this loco which will be in 21mm to EM standards.

Most suspension systems involve considerable modification to the chassis in fitting separate hornblocks and some form of compensation or springing system. Paul Bernstein a professional NZ modeller advocates equalisation normally with on axle fixed, in this case I an experimenting with all axles floating.

I will give the chassis a trial run once I have the wheels fitted.

Does the Hornby model come anyway close to the Burmah Tanker?

 

Colour scheme is pretty much spot on for the two petrol tank wagons, the wagons were a lot more modern similar to the Airfix tank wagon

 

http://www.studio-scale-models.com/img/F28.jpg

The tank wagons used by the oil companies were nearly all private owner and separate from railway company stock. The man exception appears to have been the 6 tank wagons built for Burmah in the early 70s.

The Donegal & Swilly each had tank wagons with the railway company owning the underframe & the oil company the barrel.

Interesting photo appears to have been taken following closure of the station and the conversion of the junction points to remote operation from Balla !

There is a similar 1955 Richard Casserley photo of 2-4-0 655 arriving from Westport passenger train had grown lot longer 655 was hauling 2 bogie coaches and a 6w brake. Cabin closed signals now controlled remotely from Balla, starting signals at Castlebar end station removed, running loop converted to a siding with the main line protected by trap points

A few photos (not the best quality )of the older type of tank wagons around the Point Yard and Tuam.

Irish Shell & BP Wagon East Wall Yard Mid 1990s. Charles Roberts wagon dating from late 1920s.

Silver/light grey body red solebars Type A tank wagon.

ESSO & MEX 202 Point Yard Mid 1980s.

The MEX tanker is for Class A highly flammable traffic Petrol and has two compartments.

Silver tank with horizontal orange stripe along centre of barrel.

The ESSO tank wagon appears to be a fairly modern bitumen tanker the give away is the insulated body with coned ends.

MEX tank wagon Tuam sister to 212 but more modern wagon possibly dating from the 1930s no tie down cables around the dome.

The Joker in the pack TEXACO/CALTEX modern 1960s wagon with anchor mounted tank Light grey tank with red solebars and TEXACO lettering. A modelling challenge with the older CALTEX lettering and horizontal orange stripe grinning through.

The TEXACO wagons were commandeered by CIE in the late 70s & 80s and were used on the Alexandra Road Inchacore fuel oil trains.

Interesting class of locos I came across a consist about 10 years ago on a Regional grin line well south of the 49th Parallel.

A few more I forgot:

The distinction between railway owned and private becomes a bit blurred Tivoli and most of the mine sidings appear to have been railway owned maintained and shunted by company locos

Tivoli: Texaco siding.

Burmah Oil.

Roofchrome (Pitzer

Cork Harbour Board, the Harbour Board siding was an extension of the Roofchrome siding after the Quigley Magnesite workings ceased.

Foynes: Esso Oil tank farm in area later used for stockpiling coal.

Siding to tank farm on down side. Both closed following opening of Whitegate Refinery.

Harbour siding off turntable on to pier at Western end of station.

Fertiliser Factory siding (late 1950s) sharply curved extension of main running line across road and into factory at Western end of station.

Premier Molasses & Avonmore grain extension of Mogul release road 1980s.

Drumshanbo (C&L) Campbells store

Derrenavoggey (C&L) (Arigna mines)

Wolfhill

Deerpark

Silvermines

Tara.

Dublin Port: Merchants Warehousing East Wall Road

Donnelly's coal yard Lr Sherriff St.

City of Dublin Steam Packet Company (Sidings West side of Spencers Dock)

Gouldings Fetilisers later Coal Distributers 1st siding off Alexandra Rd Tramway

Irish Shell & BP

Texaco

ESSO

Irish Bitumen Distibutors

Asahi

B&I

R&H Hall

Alexandra Basin

Tara

Dublin Port Common User Terminal

The trend away from private sidings appears to be reversing with the like of Daventry in the UK and Dublin Port.

On a smaller scale some industries still use small 0-4-0 shunters for positioning wagons for loading and making up trains for collection.

The Hornby Sentinel diesel http://www.hornby.com/shop/locomotives/dcc-ready-locomotives/r3178-ncb-4wdm-0-4-0-sentinel-industrial-shunter/ would not look out of place shunting in an industrial setting from the 1960s to the present. Maybe if Dublin Port had gone for locos rather than tractors

Saw this on RM Web Rapido Trains visit to Chinese factories & talk about a British model.

http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/2014/01/07/the-twelve-days-of-china/

Hardly any private sidings in Ireland Just a few that sprang to mind

Cadbury Rathmore private siding sent out a substantial until closure in the Mid 70s with a daily trip working from Mallow.

Kerry County Council 1/2 mile private siding Lixnaw handled bitumen until closure o the North Kerry.

Cahir Abbey Siding Tipperary County Council bitumen traffic.

Webb Mill Mallow grain later bitumen.

ESB Kilbarry, Ardnacrusha & Portarligton

Thurles private down tailing siding at North end of station lasted until ctc disappeared behind a high stone wall!

Farranfore private siding opened mid 70s serving co-operative trainload fertiliser.

Waterford: Clover Meats down side Rosslare line Abbey Junction.

Bell Lines Frank Cassin? Wharf Abbey Junction

R H Hall Grain Elevator North Wharf.

Waterford Harbour Commissioners North Warf.

Belview

Campile: Co-op siding

New Ross: Albatross Fertiliser & Wharf siding opened mid 1960s:

Athy: Tegral

Blessington Dorans Pit (DBST)

Jobestown: De Selby Quarry (DBST)

Blessington Road: Tallagh Airfield(DBST)

Enniscorthy: St Johns Siding (mill?)

Rathnew: Brickworks sidings.

Wicklow Junction: Fertiliser works & Veha radiators

Wicklow: Harbour tramway.

Portarlington Odlums Mill

Portaoise Private siding up main south of station mill or feed merchants?

Clara: Ranks grain mill (2 sidings bulk grain 1930s onwards)

Cara: Goodbodys Jute Mill

Galway: Dock Branch MGWR?

Leney Brickworks

Ballisodare: Pollexfen Mill 1870-1975?

Strange that (GSR) Sentinels only lasted in active service up to 1940, considering their modernity, doing much the same kind of work the G class would do later on.

The railcar version was known to be loathed by crews.

Probably lack of work and difficulty/cost of getting Sentinel parts from the UK during the Emergency, in the UK the LNER withdrew their Sentinel railcars around the same time though the locos remained in service into BR days.

In the UK The Sentinels seem to have been most successful in industrial use being built up to the late 50s many were converted into diesels in the 1960s by Thomas Hill.

Apart from Derry and Dublin the railway companies shunted the ports Londonderry Harbour Comissioners had pair of 0-6-0 saddle tanks both now preserved, Dublin Port & Docks Board used road tractors on the Alexandra Rd Tramway

The NCC, County Down & GNR shunted Belfast docks, the BCDR & GNR building special 0-6-4T with cut down cabs and boiler fittings for Belfast. The NCC & UTA used a small feet of almost steam outline Harland & Wolffe diesel shunters around the docks, in Cork the GSR & CIE used a motley collection of ex T&C loco and small industrial locos to reach parts the ex West Cork, GSWR & Midland tanks could not reach.

The industrial locos tended to be off the peg standard designs, most of the industrial steam and diesel locos are available in kit form from Judith Edge and Agenoria. A number of grain mills, factories and oil depots had private siding that could have justified their own locos. Ballysodare, Clara, North City Mills and Portarington once had quite extensive sidings serving mills and other industries requiring a pilot loco for several hours daily

Cold Chon used to use a converted Scammell truck for shunting bitumen wagons at Oranmore

Ah the St Albans show some superb layouts and trade stands always used to be a New Year highlight while living in the UK late 80s early 1990s. In those days I always seem to have attended a different exhibition every weekend no wonder I got so little done.

There was a paper on the plough train in one of the IRRS Journals during the mid 70s. The plough wagon was based on the last MGWR wagon in railway service, a WW1 surplus bogie well wagon bought in the 1920s, the original bogies appear to have been replaced with more modern BR style Ridemaster bogies.

Where is this location?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11410[/ATTACH]

Great and unusual photo most from the pre 60s era are from the Western end of the station looking eastwards. The steam loco coach and van are on the exchange sidings between the main line and the branch. Perhaps the loco is preparing to attach a through Ballina-Westland Row coach to the rear of the railcars set>

I think the first question is whether its worth the effort of modelling the narrow gauge to the correct 3' gauge, whie running Irish broad gauge models on 4'1" narrow gauge track.

9mm gauge using Roco or Liliput rtr locos and stock before moving on to kits or scratch building is probably a better option than the more correct 12mm gauge to get something running. While the public lines were built to 3'' gauge a number of 2' & 2'6" gauge industrial and forestry lines were built some of which used off the peg British and Continental locos and stock.

Parkside-Dundas, Peco and other manufacturers produce OO9 loco, coach and wagon kits some of which are based on or similar to Irish locos and stock. Most of the locos are relatively simple whitemetal body kits that fit on rtr N Scale chassis

There are limited rtr options or donor chassis suitable for 12mm gauge. Branchlines and Backwoods Miniatures produced a number of loco, railcar and coach kits about 20 years ago, these were fairly complex brass and whitemetal kits. Chassis assembly is best described as watchmaking. Bemo produce high quality Swiss & German HOm locos and stock best stored in a safety deposit box than under the layout.

One other thing, surely if WiFi control takes off in any way it will need the same NMRA guidelines to provide some small measure of standardisation across the different manufacturers?

I doubt that the DCC manufacturers would agree to a common standard for a Wi Fi interface with their control each manufacturer jealousy guards their own control interface, there is a lot of money in selling throttles.

Most RC systems are based on a thottle based transmitter and a fixed or loco based receiver. The Airwire system http://www.cvpusa.com/airwire_system.php is a DCC based system that uses a radio receiver to control a DCC receiver in the loco.

Visiting operators with DT 400 throttles and the large number of walk around layouts in the US with Digitrax systems is said to be the largest barrier to development of control systems.

Although Digitrax developed a Palm Pilot/Loconet interface about 10 years ago this appears to have been dropped with operators apparently preferring conventional throttles.

I suppose the big question whether anything is gained by interfacing RC with DCC as in the Airwire System or a simple RC system like Aristocraft or RCS is more effective.

By the time I was interested in the Irish Rail scene the Park Royal's were a no go in Kerry. Did have a trip on them on the Limerick Shuttle but don't remember much about them. What is the difference between the mainline and suburban versions?

 

The Wanderer.

The main line had toilets, the suburban had bench seats with their backs to windows in the vestibule compartment at each end.

The Earl's were "built" in the 1930s by sticking a Duke boiler on a Bulldog chassis to provide an engine light enough to work on the Cambrian. The first rebuild 3265 Tre Pol and Pen kept its Duke number and Cornish name, the remainder were to be named after GWR directors who were Earls but they a were not impressed and the names given to a batch of Castles instead.

As JHB said the GSWR & GSR had small wheeled 4-4-0s with outside framed bogies which were used on the Cork-Rosslare & DSER main line. While it might be possible to use the Bachmann chassis block and bogie, the body would have to be scratch built, the Irish locos had larger high pitched boilers and modern canopy cabs, but the biggest challenge would be in replacing the Bachmann driving wheels and outside cranks with normal driving wheels.

Hopefully Hornby or Bachmann will at some stage bring out a LNWR Precedent or Jumbo which would be a good basis for quite a few Irish 2-4-0 types

Not sure what Seamus and Richie have been drinking but it must have been good stuff to imagine kitbashing a Dukedog into an Irish loco.

The best place for one is working her way along that wonderful section of north of Dovey Junction with 3-4 coaches in GWR livery or the same coaches in Carmine and Cream the Bachmann loco almost makes me want to dust off my Dean Goods and Standard Class 4 and ditch my Irish stuff.

A Hornby Schools would probably be a better starting point for a 345 particulary with their Schools style chimney, the NCC had some really elegant 2-4-0 with curly outside frame that survived into the 30s (in fully lined Midland red) the Bachmann chassis would probably do but probably easiest to scratchbuild a body.

Waterford?

Main platform 3-4 Bay platforms 5 & 6. Old platforms retained after Platforms 1 & 2 closed and converted to a car park

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20W/Waterford/IrishRailwayStations.html#Waterford_20090508_020_CC_JA.jpg

Not quite modelling but the other half is from North Dakota and I did some gricing in the area (summer time)

Preliminary report of Casslleton derailment and subsequent collision http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2014/Casselton_ND_Preliminary.pdf

An axle failure on a grain car may have lead to the initial de-railment NTSB have seized a broken axle and a pair of wheels for examination.

Interestingly 18 of the 21 tank cars involved in the collision were breached and the locos at the head end of the oil train destroyed BNSF 4934BNSF 5958

Nonneminstre Models produce a nice little Whitemetal kit for a Planet diesel that runs on a Spud or Black Beetle power bogie.

http://www.nonneminstre.co.uk/resources/Nonneminstre%20Models%202012%20Price%20List.pdf

The Bachmann 14T tank wagon is pretty close in general design to the Irish Shell wagons http://www.ehattons.com/trade/StockDetail.aspx?SID=18010

"Irish Railways in Colour" from steam to diesel 1955-67 (Midland Publishing Tom Ferris 1992) contains some colour photos of SLNCR operations. There is a photo of a round roofed van 84 in the yard at Manorhamilton with Lough Erne waiting with an Enniskillen-Sligo goods.

The framing of the round roofed wagons appears similar to the MGWR "Guinness" wagons built in the 1890s, the latter were longer than the convertibles a 15'2" over headstocks, had solid roofs and ventilators. Numbed 377, 39, 516, 580, 1587, 1661, 1730, 1807, 1837 1888. Midland wagons received "m' suffix to their number in GSR & CIE days.

They had letters "Guinness" in 1'3" high letters across the door and on panels fitted out from the framing. The Midland started building standard Irish Railway Clearing House style wagons similar to the GNR from 1915 onwards.

Soft roofed Midland and GSWR convertible wagons remained in widespread use on the GSR & CIE into the 1950s with a few surviving into the black & tan era of the 1960s. There is a J I C Boyd photo of convertible 2592m built 1895 at Cobh Junction in 1962!

I have finally got around to fixing the detail castings to the van. It took a long time to get to the casting stage but the results were well worth the delay, the axleboxes and springs appear to have been common to a number of Irish Railway Companies including the GNR and should be available at some sage through Dart Castings.