I have been thinking about building a model of one of the Ballymena Black Hawthorne 0-4-2ST since I read PJ Flannigans C&L Pan paperback in my early teens (late 60s/early 70s) and several years ago did some work on a 3D model.

Possibly some scope for collaboration possibly combining etched scratchbuilders parts and 3D printing. 

I would go for a bespoke chassis, besides the very short wheelbase the Hornby 0-6-0St tend to stall on dead frog points and it may be challenging to fit a 'keep alive" decoder to the loco.

I will see if I can did out my 3D model of the Ballymena tank

7 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Couple of Midland wagons this morning
And a GSWR van

 

 

 

The Midland & GSWR Convertibles are Studio Scale Models and may still be available.

The MGWR Coal Wagons are "Jeremy Suter Irish Kits" One batch produced 20 years ago, the Rolls Royce of whitemetal kits rare by any standards.

My Irish 4mm 3' Gauge (OOn3) locos and stock are currently fitted with Kadee HOn3 couplers. The bufferbeam/headstock is notched to allow the coupling pocket/drawgear box to be fixed directly to the underside of the floor at a more prototypical height. 

The TT or 4mm version of B&B couplings available from Derek Bunting Derek Bunting, 24 Layston Park, Royston, Herts,SG8 9DS (Derek will reply by e-mail and accept payment by Bank Credit) basically a low cost neater magnetic version of the Continental Hook & Loop/Bemo coupling fitted immediately below the headstock/buffer beam is an other option. 

West Clare Open coupling height.

Parkside T&D Ballast wagon as running on the C&L.

The Mails (Day and Night), Special Passenger Trains (Knock, GAA, etc), Scheduled long distance goods trains and specials (Livestock to late 75, Fertiliser and Bagged Cement (Post 1977) continued to run over the Mullingar Line after the majority of Galway and Mayo Line passenger trains were diverted to run by Mullingar.

I haven't the WTT for the 70s:  The "Day Mails" departed Dun-Laoire Pier for Galway following the arrival of the overnight "Mail Boat" from Hollyhead calling at Connolly at some time between 08:00 and 08:30 arriving Galway Mid-Morning. The Up Day Mail worked by the same train set departed Galway Mid-Afternoon timed to connect with the evening Mail Boat departure to Hollyhead (around 8pm).  The Day-Mails were diverted to run to and from Heuston with a bus connection to and from Dunlaoire with the rail connection to Dunlaoire Pier disconnected in connection with the DART Works

The Day Mails tended to be heavy trains of conventional coaching stock potentially loading up to 10 bogies hauled by a OO1 Class Loco.

Galway and Mayo Line Goods Trains were loosed coupled consisting largely of 4w short wheelbase wagons up to the changeover to Liner Train operation in the late 70s. Goods would depart North Wall, and their Provincial Terminals in the evening crossing and possibly changing train crews en-route. 

Liner Trains made up of fully braked wagons usually departed North Wall in the early evening working through to their provincial terminal, before departing for Dublin during the early hours of the morning worked by the same rake of wagons and loco.

The Night Mails were made up mainly of bogie vans, postal vehicles and a coach for intending passengers  in 1980 scheduled to depart Connolly at 20:00 and Galway at 22:00 crossing at Moate between 23:45 and 23:50 for traffic purposes and presumably a crew change. The Night Mails were scheduled to be worked by 121 Class in the 1980 WTT but tended to be actually worked by a 141 or 181 Class.

The other "Regular" scheduled passenger train over the Mullingar-Athlone Line was the 15:40 Sunday only Ballina-Connolly passenger scheduled to depart Athlone 17:53 arrive in Mullingar 18:41, this train made up of conventional stock scheduled for 001 haulage was hauled by a 141 when I saw the train 5-6 coaches passing Enfield on evening in 84-5.

The Asahi Liner was the only regular Liner Train scheduled to work over the line during the 80s-early 90s. Departing North Wall early evening, usually returning to Dublin Mid morning. Scheduled in 1990 WTT to Depart NW 19:40 Mullingar 21:46 arr Athlone 22:41.  Return train scheduled to depart Athlone 09:00 arr Mullingar 09:54.

The Night Mails were diverted to run via Tullamore  some time after the opening of the new Athlone Station east of the Shannon and later became a Liner-Mail without passenger accommodation.  Between the opening of the new station and diversion of the Night Mail to run via Tullamore a Pilot loco was based at Athlone to assist the Mail in backing movements in and out of the new station (Train topped and tailed by a loco)

Between the mid 90s and the ending of Liner Train operation Galway was served by a Trip working from Galway to Athlone which connected with the North Wall Claremorris Liner at Athlone.

Besides the scheduled passenger and liner trains, there were two outward and one return Shelton-Galway Fertiliser Paths and three outward and two return Dublin-Claremorris Knock Special paths in the 1980 WTT.

The Knock specials tended to be heavy trains, I once saw a 14 coach Knock Special double headed by a pair of 141s passing Mullingar during the Mid-80s. I was returning on a Sligo-Dublin service train following an IRRS visit to Mayo and Sligo (road-Westport-Sligo!) The Sligo Dublin was blocked at Mullingar to allow the Special to enter the section to Killucan and held again at Killucan to allow the Special to clear the long section ahead to Enfield.

I have the 1980s WTT but the 11 page section covering the Mullingar-Athlone line is too cumbersome to post for a handful of trains

8 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

3D print 22’ flat model is another thing Owen is working on, as of tonight they really good

Don't want to be appearing critical, but it looks like Owens prints are based on the 20' Skeletal Flats introduce in 69/70 the underframe of the 22' Flats is significantly different with the flanges of the Solebar channel turned inwards and the W Irons welded to the outside of the underframe unlike earlier CIE 20T Flats.

I produced a test etch for the 22' Flat about 12 years ago but never got to the production stage

The photo of the model shows the relationship between the solebars and w irons and the way the ISO cuplock support brackets project outwards from the solebars

6 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Studio Scale Models 6 Wheelers
Came in a set of Five
1st


Comp


All 3rd


Brake 3rd






Undercarriage detail

The SSM GSWR 6 wheelers were originally supplied boxed in sets of 5. In recent years under Des Sullivan's ownership the coaches were available individually unboxed.

Dad and I had our Mad Max 2 moment on Crane Street on a bank Holiday Monday in 1985. Dad's car (another Mini) had been stolen from outside our house in Drimnagh missing for several weeks when we received call that the Gardai had located it outside the Guinness Brewery. A patrol car lead us to Dad's car before the Guards' high tailed it out of the neighbourhood! It looks like Dad's car was being used as a "Company Car" possibly by residents of the Marrow Bone Lane Flats. Their looks-outs or spotters realised what was happening as we tried to start/tow Dads car, a large gang appeared suddenly appeared out of no-where to stop us taking 'their car."

Managed to attach the tow rope attached and pull out into the middle of the road blocking a guy in a large Volvo that was between us and the approaching mob. The Volvo driver appeared to be mighty pissed to be put at risk but we escaped unscathed. It looks like the 'Company" had parked the car in the streets around the Brewery among other cars for several weeks without detection but ran out of petrol or forgot to move it before the Bank Holiday weekend.

Mini's were popular at the time Dad's 1st Mini was first stolen from the driveway of our house about 3-4 years earlier and found on the Dublin bound lane of the Naas Road at Kill with a broken drive bolt about a week later, I still believe that some one stole it to visit an Inmate in Portlaoise, it turned out to be a struggle to get it home we had stored petrol in lubricating oil cans at work during a petrol shortage following the 2nd Oil Crisis. Unfortunately we did not clean the cans properly and ended up with a carburettor blockage on the way home. 

Been through thick and thing during the past 40 years, but nothing could beat my experiences in Dublin during the early 80s

5 hours ago, Horsetan said:

My cousin's mental alarm bells went off when he found out I was walking from the flat in Bow Bridge Place, through St. James and into the city centre. I only did that because it was more reliable than waiting for a bus. I could have walked out via Heuston and along the quays as an alternative.

The other thing my cousin told me was never to park my Fiat Punto in Ballyfermot as it was unlikely I'd see it again if I did. 

Like many/most Cities and Towns, parts of Dublin's Inner City and surroundings are best avoided unless you like living on the wild side or a bit of excitement.

While Dublin Corporation did an excellent job between the 20s and 60s replacing tenements/poor housing with modern flats and housing. Some of the inner city estates de-generated into slums with many of the residents forced to live by their wits with little or no steady employment with some turning to petty or organised crime.

During the 30s 'newspaper boys' dependant on selling "An Phoblacht"  struck and took on the IRA before turning to organised crime and protection the so called "Animal Gang" that apparently survived into the 50s 

Like other port cities street pub and street fighting was not exactly unknown in Dublin my Father used to go into town on Saturday Nights in the 30s and 40s to watch men and women fighting in Parnell Street around pub closing time. Besides Festiniog and Welsh Highland Volunteers, Portmadoc was recommended as a good place for a weekend by some skinheads, 'always guaranteed a fight" in a certain pub on a Saturday Night.

Some people literally stole from their neighbours to survive, during the 1969 Maintenance Workers strike my father while on the picket line got to know an old guy from an inner city block who used to bum cigarettes from the strikers and asked him how he survived. "Its like this" said the old guy "if I see a radio or anything I can sell through a open door or window in the flats'  "I will grab it put it under my coat and sell it in 10-15minutes on Talbot St. 

Dad and I had some fun and games with Inner City urchin kids about 15 years apart, Dad had filled empty paint tins with putty and broken glass and put them on the back seat of car during strike. Some kids walked up and down with picketers while others opened car and stole tins of "paint". Kids never returned to picket line. I was doing maintenance work for Corpo. about 15 years later just before moving to UK, had an old Mini car with an isolation switch on the ignition, kids (10-12) must of pushed the car about 1/4 mile before giving up, no damage done. 

Hope the kids both me and my dad saw survived and made a better life for themselves, otherwise their and their childrens' future was likely to be pretty grim.

Yes Dublin is a very interesting town and some areas best avoided.

Marxist Lenist opinion piece over.

I suppose what continues to get me about these complaints about the lack of a National Railway Museum or Heritage Railways is the apparent expectation the the Government or someone else will fund/set up the museum, rather that get involved at grass roots level and follow the example of groups like the RPSI, Transport Museum Society, ITD and individuals like Derailed and groups that did not succeed but at least put in considerable effort and tried.

8 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

All I can say is wow! pity NZ is so far away!

Specialist modelling groups in the UK including Scale Four, EM Gauge Societies and NMRA (British Region) (American outline modellers) then to hold convention like "meetings" at both a National and Regional level in the UK.

About 30 years ago I attended an regional Expo EM held in a Holiday Inn style hotel in Scotland which was set up in a similar style to a convention but without Layout Tours. The group had hired a Convention Room carpeted floor, tea and refreshments available, no barriers around layouts, may have held workshops and lectures.

The American and Garden Railway conventions held in NZ tend to be more small scale in nature than the National Convention often organised by one or two people. 

The 2011 Hamilton Garden railway convention was organised by a local group of 6 modellers (including myself) held in a Village Hall, with catering and visiting partners events (local tourist attractions and shopping) organised by members partners, while the boys played and talked about trains, test track, lectures and Convention Dinner held in village hall and tours of 5 layouts held over two afternoons.  Something like 200 visiting delegates from all over the country, with no clubroom or club layout to maintain held as a social rather than a fund raiser covered its costs. 

One American modeller/trader in Auckland organises impromptu mini-conventions at short notices in the Region meeting up (sometimes staying) at his home arranging visits to Clubrooms, Railways Museums and Layout Tours (American, British and Kiwi) across the region, for the cost of a donation to cover fuel and catering.

Something in the Belfast region built around the Modellers Day at the UFTM, visits to Whitehead, model railway club rooms and layout tours in the region would be a good inspiration for a convention. 

Don't know about Cork and the Regions, but a Dublin Convention could include visits to the MRSI and SDMRC rooms, Malahide, The National Transport Museum (Motor and PSV) at Howth Castle, layout tours and possibly a behind the scenes visit to Inchacore Works, no shortage of attractions for visiting partners in either city.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Don’t love big shows, miles of tiring walking and bumping into crowds in noise filled halls. Not what I call enjoyable. 

The hobby tends to be organised around 2-3 day Conventions rather than exhibitions in the States and this part of the World.  Conventions tend to rotate between cities/towns on an annual-bi annual basis usually hosted by the local club/clubs held in a Community Hall or School featuring an exhibition with layouts, traders with the addition of Layout Tours and Workshops/Lectures and a Competition

The Layout Tours where delegates visit home layouts permanent and portable tend to be a major attraction, the Convention Centre effectively clears out when the delegates are "Touring" layouts. The Workshops/Lectures sometimes involve guest speakers from the Model Press/Media, Iain Rice was a guest speaker (on almost anything) at the New Zealand 2010 National Convention, Lance Mindheim Custom Model Railroader from the USA was a guest speaker at the 2014 Convention.

American and Garden railway groups host conventions separate from the 'National" convention

My Garden Railway and Irish narrow gauge layout appeared in Layout Tours held during Garden Railway and National Conventions held in my current home town Hamilton. 

The main advantage of conventions over major exhibitions is the more relaxed pace, smaller crowds and less walking around, the down side is attending a convention is a lot more expensive than attending an exhibition 2-3 day entry fee plus accommodation. Some are held in boarding schools or 3rd level colleges out of term with full catering and accommodation available and an awards ceremony/dinner and drinks.

https://www.nzamrc.org.nz/conventions/

View this email in your browser All Aboard 2024 April 26 -28, 2024 Corban Estate Arts Centre, West Auckland Newsletter 4 Brendon Lean built this kit-based model of a KiwiRail DH class loco, adding details and his own modifications including shunter’s refuges. Venue Corban Estate Arts Centre, 2 Mount Lebanon Lane, Henderson, Auckland. Registration Registration for the convention is now open. Full registration fee is $100 if paid by March 31, 2024. The fee is $120 for April 1, 2024 onwards. Click here to Register   Layout Tours The Southern Pacific joint line subdivision The Southern Pacific joint line subdivision, originally a segment of the Pacific Electric Railway's mainline in Southern California, came under the ownership of the Southern Pacific in 1965. This subdivision features a double-deck HO scale layout, incorporating a single-track mainline complemented by two return loops. The layout operates on DCC (Digitrax) technology and has been operational for three years. The Grande Southern Railroad Embark on a journey through the Rockies aboard The Grande Southern Railroad. This 5m x 6m N scale layout, powered by DCC, captures the essence of the Rocky Mountain landscapes traversed by the D&RGW and SP, featuring quaint small towns and picturesque snow-capped hills. The layout boasts a sprawling main line complemented by two short lines, operated by the BN/SF and UP, offering a diverse and scenic railroading experience. The Western Springs Railway - MOTAT Prototype tour Explore the workshops that shelter three functioning large steam locomotives: F-180 “Meg Merrillies,” L507, and Y542, amidst an extensive array of trains and railway vehicles. The tour also features a variety of carriages and intriguing items. Enjoy jigger rides during your visit. Note: This tour is exclusively available on the Saturday of the Convention. Great Northern Minot Subdivision (Cira 1956) - Steve The layout is a multiple deck, around the walls, shelf style layout with a helix to connect the levels. Built for Car Card operations. Point to Point design allows you to follow your train with staging at each end. Return loops for re-staging trains and continuous running. Plus branch line off the main with its own helix to lowest level.   Track work is 95% complete. Code 70 and 55 Microengineering Scale Rail and Yard Ladder system. 148m of Mainline from staging to staging. (485ft or 8 HO scale miles.) Mid deck 1230mm high Next Deck 1580mm. Small amount of Ballast & scenery completed.  NZR (9mil) – Trevor Trevor’s 9 mil layout is one of a small number of non-modular 9 mil layouts in New Zealand. The layout takes up most of a purpose-built 16m x 7m shed and models iconic New Zealand scenes. About two years ago, Trevor, with help from other well known NZR modellers, added a detailed model of the Opua Wharf as it was. The addition of the wharf means the maximum number of visitors to the layout at a time is 12. Garden Railway – Michael Michael's layout has been featured on TV and is one of New Zealand's best known garden layouts. The layout permits battery-powered and live steam locomotives. Michael has added a lot of scenery since the layout was last on a tour (in 2018). Different types of locomotive will be running during the layout tours.  Märklin Layout - Barry Barry's layout is a large HO Märklin layout that models European scenes.  It has been nine years since the layout was on a layout tour and it has been greatly enhanced since then. The enhancements include automated train control and the use of the Faller Car System to control the movement of vehicles on the layout's roads.  Other layouts on the Tours (more information to come) USA - Martin T Waitakere & Western Railway HO - Western Districts Model Railway Club Inc. Waitakere & Western Railway N Scale - Western Districts Model Railway Club Inc. Freelance American Layout HO - Auckland Central Model Railway Club inc. Sheffield OO Layout - Auckland Central Model Railway Club inc. Small N-Scale Layout - Auckland Central Model Railway Club inc. Other layouts to be announced There will also be the North Shore Model Railway Clubs portable NZR layout on site at the convention. As well as other displays, trade stands and some manufacturers. Please be aware that all layout tours are subject to modification. Circumstances beyond our control may necessitate changes to the schedule or the content of the tours. Clinics Our agenda includes a series of 10 clinics, each lasting 45 minutes including questions   Our clinics cover a broad spectrum of topics within the model railway hobby, and we are particularly excited to introduce subjects that have not been featured at previous NZAMRC conventions. In addition, we aim to spotlight the modern innovations within the hobby, catering to a wide range of interests and expertise levels.   Highlighted below are a few of the clinics we are looking forward to: Arduino: DCC++ EX with Low Cost DCC Boosters by Gary Snow: Dive into the world of digital command control with an economical approach, exploring how Arduino can revolutionize your model railway setup. Preparing and Assembling 3D Prints by Lewis Holden: Gain invaluable insights into the preparation and assembly of 3D printed components, a cutting-edge aspect of model railway building. Railway Work Equipment in Operations by Joshua Hill: Discover the intricacies of railway work equipment and its operational significance, enhancing the realism and functionality of your layouts. Loksound Decoder Clinic: Peter Ross will conduct a clinic on Loksound decoders, providing valuable knowledge on sound decoders that enhance the realism and functionality of model railways. Operating Small Layouts or Making Car Cards and Waybills by Robert Douglas: Whether you're interested in the operational logistics of small layouts or the detailed process of creating car cards and waybills, this clinic offers practical advice and techniques.   Further clinics to be announced. Special Interest Groups and AGMs   There will be time available for Special Interest Groups (SIGs) and AGMs. Please contact the organising committee or make notes on your registration form and we will get in touch. NZAMRC Model Competition Who in their heart of hearts does not want to make the best models they can – the best locomotive, carriage, wagon, scene or whatever? But we’re human and sometimes wanting is not enough, we need a focus, a deadline, and something bigger than ourselves to make the extra effort seem worth it. Entering the model competitions can provide that incentive – even more so with all the effort that has gone into preparations this time. Guidelines for Entrants Online entry form The next best thing to being a mind reader – a quality that’s very rare even among judges – is information gathered from the entry form. Like most online forms, you just scroll down, mostly ticking boxes, and it doesn’t actually take long. No apologies, but there’s something else too. Please try to include up to a couple of pages of supplementary information like prototype photos, plans or notes. You can upload these in any common format like jpg, pdf, tif, png, etc, or just bring paper copies along with your entry. The origins of the competitions were scratch builds, and there’s still a place for those. This bungalow built by Gordon Barr is a good example. Like to be a judge? This is also our first call for people to be judges. While not an easy task this is something of a privilege and a chance to really get close to a whole spectrum of the country’s best models – and it should be possible to do most if not all of it without missing other programmed activities. Judge’s Guidelines Peter Ross (petrosnz15@gmail.com), Chair NZAMRC Competition Committee Flatcar Load Challenge   The Flatcar Load Challenge (FLC) is a modelling competition run by the local organising committee. The FLC is independent of the NZAMRC model competition and will be run under a different set of rules (the rules are given at the end of section of the newsletter). The Australasian Region of the National Model Railroaders Association is sponsoring the trophies for first, second and third place. The judging is by popular vote. The FLC requires the modeler to make a load for a flatcar. We expect most modelers will take one of their flatcars and make the load. A modeler could make the flatcar as well as the load but there are no points for the flatcar - the load only will be judged. There are no restrictions on the load except that it must be made from at least two parts. There is an almost limitless choice for loads. Possible loads include a small steam locomotive, a large diesel engine or turbine, large pipes, a small submarine or a bathyscaphe, wheel sets for freight cars, large blocks of marble, a boat, a large run or tanks, a small spacecraft, large tanks, large spools of cable, circuit equipment, covered vintage cars, lumber, and the hero in a movie chasing a villain. Each entry for the challenge consists of a flatcar with a load. The flatcar must be operational but will not be judged. The load only will be judged. The judging will be by popular vote. An entry can be in any scale from T to 7/8”. A modeler can submit more than one entry. A modeler can submit an entry on behalf of another modeler. No documentation is to be supplied with the model. The load on a flatcar must be made from more than one part. These parts need not be scratch built. Partner program The Partners' Program is being coordinated by Elizabeth Mead. Elizabeth has created the possible list of activities given below. The list is intended to cater for a wide range of interests. Elizabeth has first-hand experience of most of these activities and will be available to answer questions about them. Partners will choose on the day which activity or activities they wish to participate in. The choice could well depend on the weather. Partners can split into groups and each group goes on different activities. Some activities will incur a cost. Ferry to Devonport From the city take a ferry to Auckland’s North Shore and the suburb of Devonport. From Devonport, walk past the Navy Museum and up North Head, or Maungauika, one of Auckland’s volcanoes Walking Tour A walking tour is a way to discover Auckland, pay what you feel the tour is worth at the finish. Film effects workshop Weta Workshop is a film effects workshop, see how film effects are designed, built and brought to life. Hauraki Gulf Marine Park The Auckland Whale & Dolphin Safari offers tours of the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park Maritime Museum The New Zealand Maritime Museum is a place where Aotearoa’s stories of people and the sea are preserved. Sky Tower View the Auckland skyline from the Sky Tower Museum Auckland War Memorial Museum tells the story of Aotearoa. Auckland Art Gallery Explore Auckland Art Gallery viewing New Zealand historic, modern and contemporary art   Auckland Zoo Auckland Zoo is home to at least 130 different species of animals Waiheke Island Take a 40 min ferry ride to explore Waiheke Island and vineyards Accommodation The accommodation in Auckland varies considerably in quality and the local organising committee (LOC) will leave it to individual attendees to decide on their accommodation. Although there is some accommodation near the venue in Henderson, there is a greater choice to the east of Henderson. There are more accommodation choices within central Auckland and that is only 20km travel. Check out Trivago for accommodation options Contacts   Mike Hill (Convener) Email: mike@hill.net.nz Phone: 021758222   James Kelso (Treasurer) Email: jameskelso250@gmail.com Phone: 0211163259   URL: https://www.nzamrc.org.nz/conventions/ Click here to Register Copyright (C) 2024 NZAMRC All rights reserved. This email has been sent to you as you are a valued member of the NZ Model Railway community and may have attended a previous convention. NZAMRC address: Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe

8 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I wonder did anyone end up biting on RB3…

As far as I know RB3 is part of the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum collection on loan to Downpatrick.

Think there are also long term plans to restore SLNCR Railcar B for use at Downpatrick

3 hours ago, Horsetan said:

The question is whether the really bad ones will happen more often.

Whatever the causation severe weather events and so called 1:100 years appear to have been happening more frequently or more talked about during the last 20-30 years.

Towns, Cities and Railway Yards tend be built in river valleys often on flat land formed by silting up of rivers and flooding.

In some parts of New Zealand there has been an element of 'managed retreat" from areas prone to damage from flooding or coastal erosion as a result of severe weather events such as the Cyclones that affected much of the North and East Coast of the North Island last year.  Basically insurance underwriters have advised the Government that they are no longer prepared to insure properties damaged in previous events, the Government (Central and Local) compensate the owner by payment based on the current valuation of the property. Twelve months after last Februarys cyclone people are living in temporary accommodation and business and farm owners struggle to resume operations as the Insurers and Councils argue over whether or not a property is insurable and the level of compensation for a property that has become effectively worthless. Councils struggle to fund and manage flood protection, against demands to keep business and domestic rates down and reducing levels of Central Government funding.

Its likely to be a long road with many setbacks for the DCDR to recover.

On 17/2/2024 at 9:13 PM, airfixfan said:

The point I was making is that a small group with no operational Railway was able to raise funds for a new loco with money from enthusiasts for their future plans with less problems than a similar scheme would face in Ireland.

Several of the  UK Tourist/Heritage Railways faced seemingly insurmountable obstacles but succeeded by taking a long game approach as a result of a combination of sheer determination and resilience.

1. The Festiniog took nearly 30 years to achieve its goal of re-opening its line to Bleanau Festiniog after the Central Electricity Generating Board put a Cumpulsory Order  top end of the line  for a Pumped Storage Hydro scheme during the early 50s. The Festiniog took a two pronged approach approach fighting the CEGB through the courts and building the 4km "Deviation" above the flooded section of the original route and Festiniog Power Station.  The Festiniog was eventually awarded damages for loss of income as a result of the Hydro scheme, the Deviation was largely built by Volunteer Labour.

2. Both the Severn Valley and Kent and East Sussex faced apparently insurmountable obstacles in early days as a result to Ministry of Transport objections to the re-openings conflicted with roading schemes. Severn Valley conflicted with Bridgenorth Bypass railway required to pay cost of providing a bridge over new road, Ministry of Transport objections to level crossings over A Roads delayed opening of KESR by several years.

3. The WHR 64 Company ordered a new boiler its flagship loco Russell in order to maintain a sense of direction after initial attempts to acquire the trackbed of the line were thwarted as a result of bureaucracy, Russell was eventually restored to working order in 1987 approx. 20 years after 1st ordering the new boiler. 

The business was re-titled the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway and re-focused on the heritage aspects of the original WHR during the mid 90s after loosing its battle for control of the WHR trackbed and rebuild the line. The WHHR has since become an 'accredited museum" with a purpose built museum building restored Russell to its original as delivered 1906 condition,  and restored a WW1 Baldwin loco similar to that which ran on the line during the 1920s and 30s  and built a "Heritage Train" of late 19th Century carriages funded largely through donations and a bequest.

In contrast operations like Downpatrick, Moyasta, Dromad and the WSVR have achieved a lot in a relatively short time and its quite possible that some may survive given a similar determination to their UK peers.

There was an old saying on the WHHR that members, officers and volunteers come and go but the railway society continues to survive.

12 hours ago, David Holman said:

Thought as much. Have also wondered if the CVR Unit had actually been used by the Donegal, whether one of two of the former's brake vans would have gone with it, to make lightweight goods possible.

According the E M Patterson "The Unit" was sold to the CDJR without its engine. The cab was used to replace that of the original railcar, after collision damage sustained in Strabane Yard -----------Clogher Valley Book.

1 hour ago, DiveController said:

Surely that’s the signalman fault, setting the incorrect road? Ah, now I understand how in old photos various stock got so far from home territory except none really got to West Cork (sorry, Jonathan, working in my accent still) 

Could be heading to Landsdown Road for an International before running ECS to Dunlaoire for stabling.

Before the DART the Enterprise and match specials were often stabled in up yard at Dunlaoire, up to the Mid-70s match specials were stabled in the RDS sidings

Traffic from Belfast to the Internationals seems to have been heavy once watched staff at Belfast Central in the early 2000s cheerfully directing a long line of equally cheerful passengers into the last carriage of the mid-morning Enterprise.

Don't know about CAFs but 80 Class sets operated Curragh Race specials off the NIR system, saw a 6 car 80 Class set waiting to work a return race special at Kildare in the late 90s. I visited Kildare in the expectation of seeing one of the new IE 2700 railcar sets, IE had recently timetabled a Sunday afternoon Ballina-Waterford passenger most likely intended to cater for returning  Waterford Institute of Technology Students but at the appointed time saw an NIR 80 Class set instead!

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Just for info purposes, in case anyone's still awake - I'll outline a few of the "might-have-beens"; tis a slow, cold, rainy Saturday night, and I have not yet decided whether I'm prepared to go down the road tonight for a pint. So; as far as I remember, and having been involved in feasibility studies (promoted by other people, not me!)....

1.  Tullow.

Two wealthy businessmen (so they said) approached the RPSI in the early 1990s. Their question: "Have you any old trains for sale?".  (Yes, I know, I know, but better is to come, dear reader, and they never even mentioned the brits building anything to control us, or lines closed in the 1950s being sold for scrap to make bombs to drop on Germany.....!)  Their rationale: they and their families had been on holiday in Britain and had taken a trip on one of the busier steam railways there, and on a bank holiday. I think it was the Severn Valley, but it doesn't matter. They noted six and seven coach trains jammed to the doors with people, and worked out that the fares paid per mile were very much higher than CIE charged. "Must make an absolute fortune!" they concluded. I exchanged several phone calls and correspondence with them, and we worked out that IF they had the bottomless pockets they claimed to have, and IF they owned the four miles of the trackbed of the line that they said they did, the RPSI could lease the two J15s to them.  In theory. As always in railway preservation, theory and practice are not just on different planets - they are in different galaxies. When the realities of the care and maintenance of steam locos was made clear to them, along with the regulatory necesseties of boiler care and insurance, track maintenance and the like, they ran away scared. We had not yet discussed marketing, public access, sight lines for access roads, suitable access for low loaders bringing rolling stock, and financial sustainability, let alone commented on the fact that half a million tourists just will NOT ever descend on Tullow per year solely to travel four miles behind a J15 with two coaches. However, in an imaginary world, we now have a four mile line from the (then still existing) fully restored Tullow station, complete with original overall roof! Hell, why not throw in a new-build GSWR 4.4.0.....  It would, of course, look great!

2. Belcoo.

This was born of cross-border "Peace Money", along with IFI & ERDF funding. Had it come to pass, and it very nearly did - it would have consisted on a mile and a half of the SLNCR (stop that drooling, Galteemore, that's yer last wanring). This would have run from Belcoo station, across the road and down through fields to the MacNean bridge, which was (and is) in two bits in the water following being blown up by the British Army during the troubles in case those with issues about their presence in the area (which, to be fair, was the majority locally!) might use it to escape their attentions when moving things that might go "bang" about during nocturnal hours. And the funding was THERE! Yes, a first time for everything.

Unfortunately, this dropped dead in the water due to a discrepancy of opinion amongst two leading local landowners, each of whom took the view that if the other one was in favour, well I'm aginst it. Had it come to pass, it was to be done on a low-cost, low key basis. With approval from IE, the Sligo railcar was to go to Brexitland to be refurbed and fitted with an almost new Gardner engine similar to the Donegal railcars. This was long before there was any talk of that vehicle going to Downpatrick; it was then languishing in Mallow, to which certain scrap merchants had, eh, travelled in order to relieve it of anything valuable, but thus enabling rain to get in and rust parts of it from the inside out. (At least it has survived). Permission WAS obtained for that, and Fermanagh Council agreed to part-fund it. Next, the RPSI would be approached with a view to having "Lough Erne" as a static exhibit there, and the NCC Railcar No. 1 also given a refurb and an identical Gardner engine. Ulsterbus was prepared to provide sheet metal and upholstery. The line would operate from Belcoo down to the lake shore - an excellent scheme. The terminus, like inch Abbey, would be a platform with short run round. No frills, but perfect for a location like that. No nonsensical, emotion-driven notions of new-builds hauling Enterprise-sized trains, to which every tourist on the island would surely want to do rather than go to the Giant's Causeway, Trinity College or the Cliffs of Moher. A "G" class, the Whitehead MGWR six-wheeler, again restored, and a brake van - all of which were available - would complete the entire stock. No endless sidings full of unsightly scrap - there was no room for anything like that anyway. An old carriage chassis - laminate, I think it was, with a flat floor on it, would serve as a loco-pushed "work wagon", similar to that at Downpatrick back in the day. By the time there was some sort of light of day where the two local landowners MIGHT agree, the funding pots were dried up, never to be repeated again on such generous terms.

Personally, the above would have been my favourite.

3. Athboy.

Another one I liked, and invested much research in. A study group was established; a founder member of IRM was one of the gang; in which the issue of a DCDR-style heritage railway within maybe an hour's drive of Dublin was contemplated. The purpose of the group was to extensively research what was possible, what suitable funding sources might be there, and what engineering and other issues might have to be addressed.

In an initial meeting, and following some groundwork by several members, some eighteen possible sites were identified. Any with level crossings or access issues, either for the general public or bringing rolling stock in, were obviously eliminated straight away once those issues became known. From memory, there were two separate sites on the old Tullow branch looked at, a complete green-field site in Co. Wexford, where a new line could run along the river bank for two miles near Bunclody; a stretch near Carlingford, and a possible bit of the Kingscourt line were all looked at. Within one and a half meetings, we were left with two possibilities. For one reason or another all of the others were eliminated completely (as opposed to being considered less desirable). The two were Ballinglen - near Tinahely on the Shillelagh branch, now a rough greenway type of footpath; and Trim to Athboy.

Both Trim and Athboy stations were long gone, but road access was fine, both are tourist towns, near a motorway, etc etc. So what would it have looked like?

One end would have been fairly rudimentary, a la Inch Abbey. The other, probably the Athboy end, would be a new-build small station with the appearance of a small Dublin & Meath station. Rolling stock would be - with the initial agreement of the ITG - three "G" class; one on loan from Downpatrick, and two from Carrick-on-Suir. All three would be sent to Germany, where these things were still being built NEW at the time, or had been in the very recent past, and refurbed over there into as-delivered condition. Several laminates would be obtained, possibly heated in the same way the Loughrea coach was. Again, the Whitehead six-wheeler, a basic couple of ballast hoppers, work bogie and guard's van, and nothing else. Space would be available in a museum for displaying an RPSI or Cultra steam loco which was not in use.

What went wrong with THAT one was that one landowner owned well over half of the route, which was straight and entirely clear, just through fields. That landowner was having none of it.

The study group presented its findings to the local authorities / councillors at each end of the line. On a scale of 1-100, the interest level shown was 0.

 

So there's a few might have beens to discuss over pints tonight, wherever you'll be!

For pure nostalgia Athboy-Trim would have been the apple of my eye, childhood memories of a land of disused railways, castles and later fishing trips with my father. 

Athboy Station survived intact with all its railway buildings until re-developed for housing in the late 90s-early 2000s, Trim was long gone and too far from the Town Centre and Castle.  A station/platform nearer the Castle might have helped boost passenger numbers, or possibly a short train ride for Tour Bus passengers, I doubt that Trim & St John's Castle visitor numbers are anything like attractions like the Giants Causeway or Carnarfon Castle.

Coach Tour operators switch to rail.

Going cross-threaded.  Tour and Coach (bus) operators in the UK and elsewhere do include end-to end trips on Tourist Railways in their tour itinerary and coach operators co-operate with Tourist Railways to provide coach transfers between destinations.  Much of the Festiniog Railways bread and butter income came from carrying coach tour passengers between Portmadoc and Tanyrisaiu 12 miles up the line.   On a more extreme scale on the Cumbres and Toltec in the  States passengers travelling the full 64 mile 6½hour journey over the line have for the past 40 years traveled in one direction by train, the other direction by coach/bus. The Durango and Silverton offer a similar option for passengers who don't want to spend the whole day on the train.

Nearer to home much of the Clonmacnoise and West Offaly (BNM Boora late 80s-mid 90s) came from the Coach Tour business.

The Valencia line closure came at a time before Local and Central Governments viewed uneconomic scenic railway lines as a potential source of Tourist Income and tax/rate income. It was not until the 70s that the potential was realised in the UK and Councils began buying and leasing scenic lines like the North Yorkshire Moors and West Somerset to preservation societies, New Mexico-Colorado realised the potential in the late 60s buying a remote/scenic 64 mile narrow gauge section of the DRGW for operation as a Tourist Railway, Dunedin (NZ) did not realise the potential until the late 80s buying the 37 mile Taieri Gorge section of the Otago Central Railway for operation as a Tourist Attraction.

The one major difference between the Valencia the Taieri Gorge, Cumbres and Toltec and Durango and Silverton is that the scenic sections of all lines are largely inaccessible by road and more spectacular in nature tha the Drung Hill section of the Valencia line.  While the Cumbres and Toltec is in a remote area, Durango has been a thriving tourist centre for many years, the Traieri Gorge's income comes mainly from ferrying Cruise Ship passengers directly from their ship to a wild and remote gorge.

In simple terms Kells-Mountain Stage section of the Valencia line would have been an interesting train ride, with the same but slightly higher views of Dingle Bay thus hardly likely to attract casual or Coach Tour passengers. 

The Tralee and Blennerville tends to fall down in a similar manner, why take a train from Ballyard to the Windmill when you can park by the Windmill, on the other hand the Waterford and Suir Valley ticks the box in terms of a short train ride through a riverside location that not accessible by car or Tour Bus!  The cycleway is not an issue have become an adjunct to Tourist/Heritage railways since the 80s. Potential option of fitting hooks for cycles to the trains similar to the Dublin and Blessington, allowing cyclists to return home in the comfort of the train tram. Common complaint about the D&B was the Tram breaking down shortly after leaving Blessington and cyclists having to dismount and cycle home and tackle the climb to the summit at Crooksling in the dark 

Museums

Going back to a museum in the South going back to past experiences its unlikely to be commercially viable and considerable political lobbying would be required at national level to include a railway museum in the National Museum's remit.

Volunteer groups (RPSI, ITG, National Transport Museum, IRRS) and individuals working on their own initiative have had the most success.

In Cork or Munster contacting the Cork Area of the IRRS and railway enthusiasts who live in the province to gauge the level of interest would be a first step.

The Waterford and Suir Valley is an interesting one, a Community Enterprise that has operated a commercially successful Tourist Railway beneath the radar of the enthusiast community for over 20 years. 

The railway appears to have been promoted as a tourist attraction by local interests and operated using funding through a combination of Community Employment Schemes, Grants and low interest loans. The operation is said to be self funding with drivers working on a volunteer basis.

The railway only appears to have come under the enthusiast radar following the news that it was considering acquiring a steam loco.

Current passenger no's 30K annually is high by the standard of similar lines in the UK and having managed to successfully establish a 10km operating narrow gauge passenger railway on the site since 2001 the company has a proven capability to raise the funds required to restore Kettering Furnaces No 3.  The company has demonstrated a realistic approach to the project by having the loco inspected and overhauled in an established workshop in the UK, rather than attempting to start from scratch in Ireland.

In my experience fare revenue running  trains using volunteer crews on short (up to 5 miles) generally covers operating (fuel and lubricants) and running maintenance costs.  The actual profit is made in the cafe and souvenir shop not running trains.

During the 80s several short preserved/tourist railways discovered that customers spent more the longer they remained on site, leading to including a behind the scenes "Guided Shed or Museum Tour" in the fare, and building souvenir shops and cafes capable of serving cooked meals. The Welsh Highland Heritage Railway in Portmadoc extended to concept to provide unlimited travel on the train a family with small children potentially spending most of the day on the railway (and more money).

The WSVR seem to be taking similar steps providing a cafe at Kilmeadan to attract business from passengers, walkers/cyclist and casuals. 

Generally loco acquisition, restoration and overhaul on preserved lines in the UK is funded directly by the loco owners, through donations and bequests.  Of the WHHR fleet of operating steam locos Hunslet 2-6-2T Russell is owned by the company its recent over £100k overhaul funded by member and public donations to a Russell Fund, 0-4-2T Bagnall Gelert (works the majority of trains, smaller and cheaper to run) is owned by the Bagnall 3050 Group that funded its 1992 restoration and recently a new boiler from their own resources. 

Baldwin 590 4-6-0PT was part funded as a result of a substantial bequest following the death of a member. The restoration was carried out over a considerable period off site in established steam workshops. The bequest also part funded the construction of a replica vintage train..

The collaboration with Rheilffordd Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake Railway) in marketing is interesting, the Bala Lake is another example of a narrow gauge Tourist Railway built on an abandoned standard gauge trackbed, originally operated with new  purpose built 'modern image" diesel hauled trains, the railway has become more vintage and narrow gauge in nature adding a large collection of Quarry Hunslet locos. More significantly the Bala Lake has struggled for many years (to re-open the line to Bala town but appears to have recently made progress.

In short restoring a steam loco or re-opening to Redmond Bridge can involve a lot of time over 10+ years and a lot of money but is achievable with local community buy in and committment.

How about Marxist Dialectics and arguments about abandoned trains, sociopolitical influences on railway building and probably something else eventually?

My dear cousin and drinking buddy Dennis who passed away several years ago was a committed Irish socialist and political activist.  He could not resist viewing my interest in railways prototype and model form a Marxist socio political perspective.

Politically I am somewhere of an agnostic torn between socialist and free market idiology. (not idealogy)

Probably the 1st step would be to establish a working group to contact organisations like the IRRS, RPSI, ITG, other preservation groups, model railway clubs and individuals like JHB and Garfield (IRM) both for information of potential exhibits-collections for a potential museum, but more importantly the pit falls experienced by preservation groups and museum societies in dealing with "Official Ireland"  (State Sponsored bodies like CIE/IE, Central and Local Government)

There have been attempts to establish a Transport Museum and Heritage Railways in the South possibly starting with the Transport Museum Society of Ireland now National Transport Museum focusing on street trams and road vehicles, https://www.nationaltransportmuseum.ie/, there were several failed attempts to establish Broad Gauge Heritage Railways following the 1970-80s round of rail closures whose loco and rolling stock collections are now largely in the care of RPSI,DCDR, ITG and private collections, attempts to establish a National Transport Museum at Mullingar with the support of IE and the main preservation groups during the 1990s were foiled by opposition by the Minister of Transport and IE Sligo Line route modernisation. The Minister of Transport who was also TD for Longford-Westmeath was opposed to the Mullingar museum proposal, ridiculed railway enthusiasts, supporting a counter proposal to establish a Transport Museum in Athlone (Midland) Station needles to say nothing further happened of either proposal.

JHB has been deeply involved with IRRS, RPSI and DCDR both as a historian, the planning and financial aspects of preservation, Garfield was recently (last 10-15 years!) involved in a working group to prepare a feasibility on establishing a "Heritage Railway" in the South.

Another aspect is to include model railways and documents in a potential museum collection, while Drew Donaldson's collection survives in the care of the UFTM (Cultra) and Fry's collection at Malahide. There is potential risk of historically significant Irish models being lost as the older generation pass on and Irish cottage industry manufacturers cease trading.

Tim Cramer produced a significant collection of CIE steam era locos and stock which appeared in magazine articles between the 70s and 90s, pioneering Irish kit manufacturers like Model Irish Railways ceased production during the 2000s,  kit and rtr manufacturers that sprung up during the early 2010s like Model Irish Scale Rail (MISR) and Irish Freight Models (IFM) appear to have ceased trading.

I love the way this thread is going from rumors of an abandoned steam loco in County Carlow, to CIE selling steam locos to farmers to haul out bullshit (bovine excrement), to politics and religion to the land of sourdough and SUVs.

I eat sourdough from the local supermarket and drive a SUV but live far from D4.

Keep the thread going and possibly move it to the Letting off Steam era, 

20 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Some rare footage has been unearthed, of a GNR train arriving at Clogherhead.

 

Can almost smell the salt air.

Reminds me of childhood trips to the beach at Gormanstown though we always travelled by car, though there was the excitement of main line trains (steam and railcar) rumbling across the viaduct

Might as well follow Leslie's example and jump on the 'as seen at Clogherhead" bandwagon 

Likewise Patrick is a valued customer

The photos nicely bring out the level of detail in the JM Design GSWR/GSR/CIE Covered Wagons possibly waiting for a consignment of fish on the "Perishable" for the Dublin Market.

All credit to Alan and Patrick for the photos.

Just a handful of RTR wagons including an ex-GSWR Van left https://jmdesignmodelrailways.com/collections/rtr-models

One might have been are the Blue Pullman trains.

CIE are supposed to have seriously considered buying and re-gauging the Blue Pullmans during the late 60s/early 70s. 

16 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

This is one for JHB, or Mayner.

Anything remotely like this in Ireland?

With their name, I assume that they were for moving TANKS?

Not aware of any such vehicles finding their way here, even during the Emergency as you Southern guys delightfully refer to the apocalypse that was WW2. I wonder what the Irish word for Aramgeddon is .... (I bet Dave knows).

Back to the topic. Good luck with the Hatton lines, boys.

Nothing similar to a Warwell that I know of.

CIE had 2 Transformer Trucks 23700 built Krupps 1930-57'9" long 50T capacity, 23701 built CIE 1951-72' long 80T capacity both used by the p.w. department from the early 70s.

I saw a 12w bogie well wagon similar to Hornby/Triang R242  at Inchacore at some stage during the 70s-80s https://modeltrainmarket.com/products/oo-scale-hornby-r-242-br-british-railways-trestrol-wagon-b901600-w-girder-load  possibly 23701.

No need for the Irish to worry about the Aramgeddon, apparently there  is something in the prophecies of St Patrick about Ireland sinking beneath the waves (and the) before the big day.

Garden railway modellers tend to he a hardy lot seldom let a little snow or rail stop them