Mayner

Saw this on an RM thread on older inspiring layouts. Part 1 includes the ground breaking 2mm scale Chiltern Green. In a way the overall standard of modelling has not moved on since the 1980s

17 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Genuinely, the amount of creative play time I had with that stuff as a nipper was unbelievable. One of the best inventions ever as a children’s toy - or hobby.

20 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

 

 

 

 

Photos of Lego on the heart rug in the parlour brings back memories. When I was little I wanted to be a farmer and made farms and played with my Corgi tractors on the rug, and later started building Lego bungalows.

I ended up working as a Site/Project Manager for many years coordinating large groups of people playing with 1:1 scale blocks and machinery.

Early days playing with Lego may have helped me start thinking 'outside of the box' important for solving 1:1 scale real life problems as a manager.

Daughter (13) has ordered a Lego "Harry Potter" set for Christmas and has taken on the project management side from her old Dad, with a growing portfolio of assembled Lego Sets taking over china cabinets and display cases around the house!

4 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

As promised my new train, here hauled by the nearest thing I have to a DNGR tank - a GNR Tank. Three Hattons six wheelers. I really wanted the full brake, but thought I might as well have a short train!

The Hattons LNWR coaches should stimulate demand for LNWR,DNGR and GNR locos!

Possibly a OO Works Crew Special Tank/DNGR 0-6-0ST though similar in general outline the DNGR loco would require a separate running board/footplate tooling to the Crew Special. The DNGR locos had larger driving wheels and a different running plate profile to the "Crew Special"

There are several photos of GNR JT 2-4-2T on the DNGR.

Richard Hobbs designed 3D printed JT complete with OO chassis has been available for several years www.glr3dmodeldesign.co.uk recommended using plasticard overlays to complete the loco.

Harry Connaughton a professional model maker produced a batch of rtr OO & 21mm GNR JT 2-4-2T (used on the DNGR) during the early 70s which may show up on the second hand market or deceased estate.

My first set (early 60s) tin plate American freight train, the loco was powered by a single battery in the boiler loco and all cars 4w, second set 2-3 years later was tinplate American streamliner (3 car) again all 4w but could also run in reverse. The tinplate sets did not last very long as I was and still am a 'tinkerer" who enjoys taking things apart.

The third set a Lego train with a battery locomotive lasted longer as I was able to rebuild the locomotive from a Tank to a Tender loco using parts from my Lego set.

I got to choose a 'proper' train set a Triang-Hornby "South African Goods" for my first teenage Christmas present during the late 60s. There was nothing South African about the set as it featured the recently introduced M7 loco and BR wagons. The "South African Goods" did not last very long I traded in the M7 for a Triang-Hornby 0-6-0 diesel shunter a year later and started scratchbuilding plasticard and tinplate British and later Irish outline bodies to run on butchered Triang-Hornby chassis.

My first reasonably successful kitbash was a crude model of SLNCR Lough Gill with a tinplate body (Coke tin) on a Triang Princess chassis block fitted with Triang-Hornby 0-6-0 driving wheels, it looked rough but actually ran, I butchered the Princess into a Black 5 before attempting the Irish loco.

I guess I haven't changed much I am still a tinkerer after 50 years though the end results in terms of my modelling seem to have improved

Fenit used self propelled steam cranes on the pier lines  http://www.kennellyarchive.com/id/MYH007/

The Fenit cranes ran on the pier lines, but do not appear to had buffing gear or couplings for shunting wagons, I am planning something similar for Northwharf using a Jordan HO steam navvy as a basis

There are a number of colour photos of the cranes in JHBs & Barry Carse's book Rails through North Kerry none unfortunately showing the "cab" end.

The Fenit cranes appear to had a 'fast' hoist rope with a simple hook rather than the double block arrangement shown in the second sketch.

The cranes appear to have had a fixed 'non' luffing jib supported by struts that go back to an A frame inside the cab 

The hoist drum and engine were inside rather than outside the "cab" to keep the engine and drum dry to prevent the hoist rope slipping.

The "cab' layout is likely to have been similar to a steam navvy or the steam cranes at Chatham

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Easy enough to pull the deflectors off it, I suppose, to make it a K2.... and stir it about in a pot of grey paint!

Better still fit the loco with a number plate and its is basically correct for a loco running in GSR condition (apart from the narrower running plate/position of the cylinders and motion).

The Inchacore smokebox door with hand wheel appears to be a late Emergency/CIE modification.

6 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

When did Shapeways start offering a resin print option? as one of their designers I must say Ive never been aware of it, granted I haven't been paying attention to them over the past year or two really due to the ludicrous pricing obliterating any profit margins to be had

The Shapeways resin option appears to have been first offered 1-2 years ago. Accura Xtreme 200 appears to be the most suitable for small scale models.

https://www.shapeways.com/materials/sla-accura-xtreme-200

9 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

It is sad that Shapeways has lost its way or made it hard for designers to upgrade. Check out Lenny`s work at Lincoln loco  https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/   to see what can be achieved and this on a home printer system albeit a good one.  

Robert 

 

Shapeway designers have the option of offering models in a variety of materials, but few model railway designers select the resin print option possibly because to the high cost.

I priced a few examples and the resin prints work out roughly 2½ times more expensive than their default White Versitile Plastic material (pebble dash finish) 

More progress on the Bullied Vans painting complete and couplings fitted. 

I have gone as far as I can go with the vans at this stage as I used up my stock of usable decals and had to order another sheet to complete this project.

The Night Mail. Heating Van, PO van, 2 LVs, I will need to add a single GSR or 1950s coach and a short string of H vans to complete this train.

The alternate Mail Train  I am planning to repaint the Heating Van in as introduced silver and build an ex-MGWR 6w TPO for a 1950s mail train. There is a photo of a similar consist in Sligo complete with ex-MGWR Meat/Fish van.

The Heating Van is one of my original 2012? test builds with un-modified doors and 3D printed gangways.

Luggage Van 2754 Original state, paint touch up required above the doors & re-seat the interior insert (with bars). Capacity load decal broke up to be replaced.

CIE replaced windows on some vans with solid panels, again load capacity decal to be replaced before glazing securing the window in place.

I used Kadee "20 Series" couplings on this van my usual 36 couplings were unavailable.

The 20 series pocket is simpler to assemble than the 30 series, but not a practicable proposition for the Heating Van cause they are too large to conceal in the fuel tanks.

I guess its back to the G Class Chassis and J15s until the decals arrive!

I came across a former GSR Bredin Suburban Brake 3rd during a visit to Inchacore during the mid-1990s, does anyone know whether the coach made it into preservation?

The coach may have been used on the Inchacore Trail Train following its withdrawl from service, there is a photo of the Bredin coach and a MK2D coupled to an NIR 111 at Ballybrophy in 1986 in the current edition of New Irish Lines.

22 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Sure about that?

The so-called “works” was nothing but a siding under a bridge.

The old carriage shed was virtually derelict (what was left of it) before the line closed - and the Black and Tan livery didn’t exist when it closed.

If such a repaint did happen, it’s going to be on a derelict siding under a bridge in a freight yard after it’s main line has closed.

Possible, but why not do it in Glanmire, where there were better facilities?

Rocksavage Works was on the West side of the running line 'the siding under a bridge" was used as a loco depot.

The Works appears to have been in two parts the 3 road Carriage and Wagons Shops or "old carriage shed" parallel with the running line and the Loco Works at right angles to the carriage shops, reached by a turntable with a separate lead from the Cork City Railway. 

The Carriage and Wagon Shops/Carriage Shed appears to be reasonably intact into the late 1950s https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/52251463031/in/album-72177720300931532/. 

The Works appears to have been used for carriage and wagon repair up to closure, there is a late 1950s Walther McGrath  photo of wagons undergoing running repairs outside the shops while No90 shunts wagons on the main line.

Its possible the re-paint took place inside the Carriage Shed or even on one of the several sidings under the Hibernian Road Bridge, the bridge was effectively used as a loco shed after the original running shed was demolished to make way for the Cork City Railway.  Rocksavage may have been used for the repaint if works staff were still on the payroll or Glanmire may have been busy with other work.

Inchacore had a fairly primitive spray shop until replaced by a modern shop during the 1990s

I probably would have gone for a GN V or Vs in sky blue livery with a matching rake of coaches, but I have been planning to build a Cattle Engine for the last 30 odd years.

American brass imports seem to have taken off after American servicemen discovered that Japanese and later Korean craftsmen could produce excellent hand crafted models companies such as Precision Scale and Overland Models , there is also a considerable market in European brass manufactured by companies like Fulgurex http://www.fulgurex.ch/en/.

American brass seems to be brought as much as an investment as to run on a layout. Athearn, Atlas and Walters were the main brands of plastic rtr models with Bachmann and Lifelike in the toy train category until they started lifting their game in the 1990s.

Apart from one or two 1960s GWR imports Japanese or Korean brass never took off in the UK with "Hornby" dominating the UK market until Bachmann Branchlines arrived during the 1990s. Otherwise excellent Airfix and Mainline locos in the 70s and 80s were let down by poorly manufactured mechanisms. Ironically Mainline's models were manufactured by Bachmann and Airfix (later Hornby) by Sanda Kan that was later gobbled up by Bachmann.

Iain Rice blamed the poor quality of British rtr models and kits on modellers expecting high quality models at bargain store prices

16 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

As I observed before, this thread is better than TV.

Whatever IRM come up with, it'll do well because it will be unique and even if you're modelling a different railway, you should still buy one and find a reason for having it (like my J15s and MGWR 2-4-0 at Portadown Jct!).

And don't whinge about the price - compared with my list (£500 each, maybe) it'll be a bargain.

 

As seen on TV!!!!!!!!!!!

I looked at the option of commissioning a rtr OO gauge Cattle Engine from China, I would have needed to sell 500 batch built Brass locos at £700 each or 3000 plastic injection locos at £180 each to cover my costs and make a small profit.

OO Works appears to have established that there is a market for 100 Irish steam outline locos at a £315 point which appears very low for a batch built model assembled in the UK (even at home!)

At the time I hadn't £300k lying around to see if I could sell 500 Brass or 3000 Plastic Cattle Engines so took a punt on investing a smaller amount in producing some 3D printed rtr wagons which did not exactly pay off either.

Potential demand for 1 per-train items Brake, Luggage Vans, Buffet Cars.

IRMs, Accurascale and MM business model is largely based on producing coaches and wagons that customers will by in multiple to make up a complete train such as IRM & Accurascale's focus on 'Block Train Wagons, MM production of the Craven and Supertrain coaches.

I think its significant that MM did not produce model of the BR Van or Buffet Car (1953) that were used with Craven coaches. The BR Vans were used with the Cravens from the early 1970s to the mid 2000s, while the 1953 Buffet Car ran with the Cravens from the mid-1960s until replaced by "Craven Buffets" during the late 1980s.

While widely used I doubt that the Bulleid Vans even in a multi-pack would sell in sufficient quantities to justify producing a rtr model. The Vans were largely used singly and ran within a very restricted time period 1955-late 70s, the majority of 4w vans were withdrawn during the early 70s, a small number of 4w Heating Vans retained for Dublin Suburban and Branch Line trains. 

Ironically while CIE ran mail and parcel trains made up largely of 4w Luggage Vans, the Heating and Luggage sold better.

Sales wise my Bullied Van kits broke down     40% Heating and Luggage, 30% Luggage Van, 10% Post Office/PW Tool Van over two batches.

Kits/batch produced rtr Irish models.

With the exception of the Bandon Tank and B101 the majority of the SSM kits were developed during the 1980s and 90s before the business was sold to its current owner.

Worsley Works continues to produce scratchbuilder parts for Irish locos and rolling stock mainly GNR, NCC and UTA as Northern Modellers continue their great scratch and kitbashing tradition. Parts for BUT, MED, MPD and 70 Class railcars have been released during the past 10 years, apparently with little demand from "Southern Modellers" with no new GSWR/GS/CIE items released since the early 2000s.

I am unlikely to produce further JM Design kits unless I want to design and build a model for my own personal use, the business covers its production, but not its design and prototyping costs. Shipping costs from NZ do not appear to be a significant factor, the business has a small but loyal customer base, moving production to Ireland is unlikely to have a significant effect on the price point as I am working from a lower cost base due to the relatively low value of the NZ $ compared to the € or £, Vats not issue as our prices are 0 rated for vat/gst and claim back the vat/gst if any on my input costs.

The fundamental problem is there is in-sufficient demand for kits or batch built models in the current environment to make it worthwhile to produce new models.

Disappearing manufacturers.

Ian McNally's MIR was probably the first casualty of the introduction of the current generation of rtr models, despite re-tooling the majority of his locomotive and rolling stock kits from whitemetal to resin. Although some of the detail was heavy the kits were reasonably accurate models that captured the look of the prototype and easily convertible to 21mm gauge.

Model Irish Scale Rail a promising Edenderry based small batch build manufacturer of rtr CIE wagons faded out in the early 2010s after producing creditable models of the CIE H Van and Ballast/Gyspum wagon. MISR planned an extensive range of high quality highly wagons based on existing rtr chassis which may have been too much for a cottage industry operation.

The MISR H Van received a positive review in New Lines during the early 2010s.

IFM once produced a large range of Irish rtr coaches and wagons based on rtr chassis and running gear during the 2010s, but its currently unclear whether the business is currently in operation.

UK losses.

Apart from the loss of Eileen's, Photo Etch Consultants ceased trading in 2022.

Photo Etch control the tooling and carry out the etching for a number of UK kit manufacturers. Apart from the problem of retrieving the tooling, the closure of the business is likely to result in significant price increases for some brands of etched kits. Photo Etch prices were significantly lower than other photo engraving companies. The good news for customers is that I did not use Photo Etch.

Q Kits

Colin:

As far as I recall Q Kits produced resin models of CIE A Class, B201, B101, E401 and NIR Hunslet. While rough diamonds the Q kits tended to get the basic shape of the Metrovicks and Hunslet correct and the could be completed as a reasonable model.

I had a B101 & a E401, I struggled to complete the B101 mainly because I was unable to correct the serious shrinkage/distortion of the body and cut out the windows neatly, the E401 was a reasonable looking model but was unable to find a suitable donor chassis/motor bogie

The Metrovicks and Hunslet were marketed by MIR, though the A Class was later replaced by a whitemetal kit produced by MTK (poor quality body castings that did not fit and Class 47 bogie sideframes totally unsuitable for an A Class. Still it was fun to 'assemble" the A Class on a scratchbuilt chassis with Atheran SD9 trucks (bogies), with central flywheel motor driving both bogies extremely unusual for a model of an Irish or British Rail diesel during the early-mid 1990s.

13 hours ago, DiveController said:

This is what concerns me most regarding future modelling of Irish railways. While there seems to be something of a following for the  pre-grouping era in GB, there seems to be fewer who do and will remember or have any nostalgic association with early CIE, let alone the GSR, or GSWR ....

Not withstanding what IRM have achieved in 5 years which is a good business model and an innovative and quality series of products, there has really not been any readily available early period traction, track or stock that might revive interest in that era  

Many older more established modellers had similar concerns about the future of railway modelling when I first started modelling as a teenager about 50 years ago. The majority of the older generation modelled the "Big Four"/BR steam era, Irish railways were basically off the radar apart from a small group of scratchbuilders.

At the increasing popularity in modelling Irish railways was largely driven by a small group of modellers in Ireland and the UK who during the 1970s/80s built models of Irish locos and stock and a number layouts that appeared at exhibitions and in magazines. The greater interest in Irish modelling encouraged  people like Ian Mc Nally (MIR), Terry Mc Dermott (TMD & SSM Kits) and Mike Cole (Q Kits) to produce models of Irish locos and stock (some high quality, others less so).

While  RTR manufacturers and commissioners have a proven capability to produce high quality rtr models of  locos and stock, the availability of relatively low cost models from China is contributing to un-realistic expectations of what can be produced and more seriously a hollowing out of the hobby with the closure of several specialist UK suppliers and kit manufacturers with a potentially serious impact on people who intend to model Irish railways in the steam or transition era.

Its unlikely that it would be financially for IRM or MM to produce a representative selection of locos and stock required to operate a CIE 'transition from steam" era layout set during the 1950s while it may be viable to produce a C Class, AEC Railcar set with 1953 Buffet Car, Open Second, Side Corridor,  Brake Second, a Park Royal, Laminate coach (post 1956) (3 different types), its unlikely that it would be economic to produce vehicles ran singly (demand 1-2 per customer?) such as BR BSGVs, Bulleid 4w vans.

The Steam era opens up its own unique rabbit hole while wooden bodied GSWR/GSR side corridor coaches and Bredin stock were fairly widespread, ex-CBSCR, DSER and MGWR coaching stock were still in widespread use on their sections into the 1950s,  MGWR Post WW1 Corridor coaches (most comfortable 3rd/2nd Class coaches in Ireland) were also used on GSWR mail line and Midland 6w scattered far and wide, but seldom appearing in solid trains of 6w stock.

Locos open up a whole can of worms passenger trains were largely hauled by pre-amalgamation 4-4-0s until replaced by diesel railcars or locomotives from the mid to the late 50s. GSWR-5 Classes large 4-4-0, 3 Classes small 4-4-0, MGWR 3 Classes large 4-4-0, 1 Class small 4-4-0, 1 Class 2-4-0. The GSWR, MGWR and DSER each had their own "Standard" (J 15 size) and large Classes of Goods Locomotive. What about Tank locomotives, what about the Great Northern, the NCC, BCDR and dare we say it SLNCR with its unique sense of uniqueness.

JMRI Operations Pro is now generating longer trains after after some fine tuning to the Locations menu ( basically you have to add an additional 2' to the length of each wagon when calculating siding capacity).

All wagons are individually numbered, so need for individual waybills or car markers used with paper based systems.

This afternoons Trip made up ready for departure: 1st Van 17113  destined for Track 4 at the rear of the traverser, 2 Opens with containers 10552 & 10568 for the Quayside siding, 2nd Van 17165 to the Milage road & Ranks 2 for the Grain silo.

Train arrives at NorthWharf, 1st task is for the entire train to "set back" into the Fiddle Yard uncouple 17113 from the train before shunting to Track 4.

In practice the crew would have parked the rear of the train and Brake Van on the Main Line while the loco shunted the yard. There is a good account of CIE goods and mixed train workings in a J P O'Dea IRRS paper on the final days working of the Farranfore-Valencia Branch, the Brake Van and most of the train was left on the main line while the C Class shunted Killorglin Yard.

B125 propels 17113 under the overbridge to collect outgoing GSWR Covered 15253 from Track 4

15253 has been parked on the Main Line while B125 sets back into Track 4 with 17165

Track 4 is basically what American modellers describe as an off-scene industry a destination and source of traffic, possibly a warehouse or Granary or an oil depot if I can get my hands on some decent tank wagons!

B124 has picked up the two vans and opens and is now preparing to shunt the Wharf Road while Ranks 2 & the Brake Van continue to wait on the main line.

Push & Pull B125 has moved 3 vans that were on the Milage Road/wharf headshunt to the main line in order to position Opens 10552 & 10568 on the Wharf Road

The crew are not exactly happy with the extra shunt needed to separate 17165 from 10552 and 10568 to position them on the Wharf Road.

125 has moved wagons with outbound traffic Grain 16404, Ranks 2, Vans 17165 & 17121 to the Loading Bank road to clear the main line and loop for the run round move and draw the remainder of the train into the yard.

B125 has uncoupled from the train and is preparing to run round.

As a timesaving move B125 coupled to Ranks 2 & the Brake Van running round by the loop positioned Ranks 2 at the Silo and the Brake on the Main Line clear of the loop turnout.

B125 has shunted the outgoing wagons onto the van including 15253 and is preparing to set back with 17165 to the Loading Bank Road

17165 positioned for loading/unloading with 17012 placed earlier in the week

I am planning a loading bank in this area with a canopy for loading bagged mill products. 

Complete train made up and ready to depart.

Hopefully I will  make some progress in completing the distillery buildings, retaining walls and over bridge during the holidays, they have been in a hiatus for the best part of 10 years.

Personally I like RM Web for the modelling and technical content, kit and scratchbuilding, p.w., signalling, modellers musings due to the greater and wider knowledge base than IRM.

The pop-ups are not a problem on my laptop, though both RM Web and IRM are a pain to access on the iPhone.

Noel do you view RM Web on a Phone or computer?

No problem viewing RM Web (free) or news media on a Laptop, but phone infested with popups trying to sell me things I don't want tailored to my  age demographics and personal search pattern.

On 9/12/2022 at 9:26 PM, murphaph said:

That's serious commitment to the hobby! It looks amazing. 

De Selby (Alan) is an accomplished builder of steam locos to S4 standards mainly GN & NCC who occasionally publishes his work on RM Web.

Locos include NCC Mogul, Whippet 4-4-0 (scratch) both lined Crimson Lake) GNR Vs, S and U.

650 is de Selbys first "Southern" loco.

19 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Another thought, the worm on my 00 works 0-6-0t is very sharp, as in cutting, and I wonder if gentle dressing with a jewellers file to round off the top of the worm gear would help?

Best avoid taking a file to the worm. Wear/damage to the worm wheel/pinion usually occurs when the mesh between the worm and worm wheel is too shallow, motor overheats/burns out when its too tight.

Best option would be to contact OO Works (return for repair or replace worm and worm gear) as the "Minister" and "Westcorkrailways" experienced similar problems with their Beattie/West Cork 0-6-0STs.

A paper on the Meath Line was published in an IRRS Journal during the early 1950s possibly by J O'Meara, the Journal and Meath Road paper may be accessible in the IRRS Library at Heuston.

The paper was fairly comprehensive detailing the lines history, description of the stations and traffic handled (early 1950!).

There is a good selection of Meath Line stations on the IRRS Flickr site well worth the annual subscription.

Link to 'de Selby' 21mm gauge S4 model of 650 complete with working inside valve gear.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175977-jm-design-650-class/

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The OO works locos are basically like a classic car - lovely to look at, can trundle around nicely, but don’t expect them to cope with the rigours of daily commuting. They are built with 50s-60s technology and are, as one said above, essentially a ready made white metal kit. In this case, the grunt work of sustained exhibition running (in conditions which are, it is easy to forget, environmentally challenging - wheel and track cleanliness alone take a hammering from the atmospheric impact of many humans in a room) is clearly too much. I suspect that running the odd branch line style train with a few restful station stops would be much more their bag. 

The small scale chassis technology particularly in terms of the adaptation of high quality motors and gearboxes with two stage gearing has developed considerably since the 50s and 60s. 

OO Works, or similar kit built locos with an all metal chassis gearing and high quality can motors are likely to be more durable in the long term than many mass produced steam out line locos, the downside is the chassis may take longer to run-in because there is likely to be less slop (built in wear) in the running gear, the plus side is the chassis may not wear out as quickly as a loco with a lot of inbuilt slop

The combination of a brass or nickel chassis with Markits metal centered wheels running in brass bearings with an all metal or nylon gear train driven by a coreless or high quality can motor, with all metal motion and valve gear (properly assembled) should be virtually bomb proof one run in.

Ironically for a long time kit built chassis were considered more reliable and durable than rtr and kit built steam outline locos often used on large UK exhibition layouts such as High Dyke or Stoke Summit because of more reliable running and superior pulling power of a loco with a whitemetal body to haul a long passenger or freight train.

Comet ran a very successful business for many years suppling replacement chassis for Airfix, Hornby and Mainline steam outline locos manufactured during the 7os and 80s. Their exhibition display featured a large number of steam outline locos running continuously on Comet chassis (usually with outside valve gear) from exhibition opening time to closing

There are well documented problems with zinc rot with Hornby and Heljan chassis, gear splitting and failure with Hornby and Bachmann locos, there were problems with the  Bachmann A1 4-6-2

I had to replace the gearbox, leading truck and carry out major chassis repairs on a 10 year old Bachmann Large Scale (1:20.3) 2-8-2.

I am planning to re-release undecorated models of all the existing wagons plus additional versions of the Brake Van and GSR Van during the 1st quarter of 2023.

I expect to have sample prints of the revised versions of the Brake and GSR Van by late Dec/early Jan.

To quote Patrick sssssseriously impressive!!!!!!

and an excellent of what can be achieved using traditional scratchbuilding techniques.

Very tempted to build a 'steam outline" H&W diesel