The GWR lead the way in the UK in introducing a fleet of 33 almost identical single unit diesel railcars and 2 power twins excluding the single engined prototype.

The GNR 600 Class and later CIE 2600 cars lead the way with the widespread introduction of 3-4 car and longer formation in Ireland and the UK.

Internationally railways and manufacturers began to develop diesel railcars from the late 1920s onwards

In the United States and Canada railroads Gas-Electric and later Diesel railcars were widely used on light passenger and mail services from the late 1920s onwards.

American Car and Foundry produced streamlined single unit and articulated diesel "Moto-railers" from the late 1930s onwards   http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop10.html

Australian and New Zealand railways began building/purchasing diesel railcars during the 1930s. The 6 NZR "Standard" Railcar introduced in 1938 appear similar in principal to the GWR cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZR_RM_class_(Standard)

2mm pin point wagon axles (with or without the points filed/ground off!) or 2mm bogie axle (EM) from Alan Gibson Works would be the simplest solutions.

Gibson Bogie wheels are supplied with plain ended OO and EM axles, wagon and coach wheels are available in OO, EM or S4 on 26mm pin point axles either direct (best phone and leave message for Colin Seymour) on 044 161 678 1607)or through suppliers such as Wizard Models in the UK

It looks like 4w coaches built for Irish companies from the 1860s onwards were similar in length to the Hattons and Genesis coaches as opposed to the shortie 'Stage Coach" style vehicles of the 1840s and 50s like the Ulster or D&K vehicles.

The Macroom 4 wheeler 14 appears to be a 25' vehicle possibly built during the 1860s, the gas lighting is likely to be a GSR modification.

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-21237--second-class--4-compartments--14ft-w-b--25ft-o-b.html

HMRSI 21237 is a Waterford and Central of Ireland  25' 14' wb 4w compartment second ordered from Metropolitan Carriage and Wagon in 1879

The second coach listed is a 6w 3rd ordered from Brown Marshall in 1893 so it looks like the WCIR started acquiring 6w stock before the company was absorbed in the the GSWR.

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-29134--4-wheel-passenger-brake-van--15ft-w-b.html

HMRI 29134 is a Waterford Dungarvan and Lismore  15' wb 4w Passenger Brake ordered from Metro Camel in 1893 a relatively modern vehicle for a 4wheeler.

I put in an enquiry to the HMRS for the WCIR 4wheeler so it will be interesting to see if I receive a response.

On an unrelated subject the two ex-WLWR "Castle" 2-4-2T GSWR  267 & 491 are close in outline to the LNWR 5'6" radial tanks which survived in BR ownership into the mid 1950s a potential subject for a close enough UK conversion if anyone brings out a rtr model. The GSWR sold one of the ex-WLWR 2-4-2T to the Cork and Macroom, Inchacore apparently forgot the two locos were identical and classified  267 as F5 and 491 as F6

The Waterford and Central of Ireland and Waterford Dungarvan and Lismore appear to have used 4 w coaches until they were absorbed by the GSWR in the early 1900s

Do any clear photos or diagrams of WCIR or WDLR 4w coaches exist?

There is an early 1900s photo (EK 10)  of a train at Dungarvan with what appears to be WDLR coaches with oil lighting, GSWR 6w coaches were fitted with gas lighting from the 1880s.

https://www.waterfordmuseum.ie/exhibit/web/BasicImageSearch/offset/105/subject/_1_7_3_/

The ex-WDLR and WCIR 4 wheelers appear to have been withdrawn before the 1925 Amalgamation, but at least one Macroom 4 wheel coach survived into GSR ownership and was fitted with gas lighting!

Irish Standard Gauge Railways ©Tom Middlemass 1981

The CMDR 4wheeler appears to have a 25' body length based on a minimum compartment width of 5'

The CMDR was opened in the 1860s its likely that 4w coaches ordered by Irish companies during the 1860s and 70s would of been of similar dimensions and outline to the CMDR coach as opposed to the Ulster and the Waterford Tramore (ex-MGWR) 1st Class Carriages with their 1840/50s 'stage coach' styling. The Tramore 1st was apparently built by Dawson's in Phibsborough for the MGWR and incorporated a compartment with a fold down bed for use as a sleeping compartment.

The Hornby & Hattons 4wheelers may not be too far off in terms of overall dimensions for 4w coaches ordered by Irish companies during the 1860s & 70s, companies like the South Eastern, Brighton, GNR worked their London suburban services with close coupled rakes of short 4w coaches into the early 1900s. The GWR Dean 3rd and Bk 3rd coaches built for branch line use during the 1890s were of similar length to 6 wheel coaches built during the same era.

Coaches are probably the least of the challenges faced by an Irish Mike Sharman modelling the pre-1900 era as virtually all the locos and stock would have to be scratchbuilt especially if modelling one of the Waterford companies.

Funnily enough I am about to start my own coach building project assembling and completing a rake of 6 SSM GSWR 6 wheelers on 21mm gauge in GSR livery which should keep me busy for a year or so!

Converting the Hattons Genesis coaches to Irish Board gauge could be challenging, the GNR ran into a similar problem and were unable to convert some of the ex-LNWR (bogie) coaches bought during the 1940s to 5'3" gauge because the solebars (chassis side frames) were too close together.

The Genesis Coaches are certainly 'close enough" for OO gauge the LNWR would certainly pass for the DNGR and the BR Crimson/LMS would probably pass for the GSR though they appear to have sold out on the initial order.

For those brave enough to model the pre-1900 scene those 4 wheelers would probably pass for WCIR or WDLR stock both companies apparently had the reputation of possessing the worst coaches in Ireland.

The West Cork had a thing about "shortie" (32') bogie coaches during the 1890s a time when the MGWR was still building 6 wheel coaches for main line use, so some Hattons 6w bodies on bogies are a must for a steam era West Cork Layout.

I loaded JMRI Panel Pro onto the computer in order to use the Operations Pro car/wagon routing system to add some randomness and make operating the layout more interesting. Alan Wright used a "Tiddlywinks Computer"  for sorting wagons on his Inglenook shunting puzzle, other people use playing cards, or paper based waybill systems.

JMRI Panel Pro Menu

Operations Sub Menu

Car roster

North Wharf Trains

Train Consist Stg-NW1 (American terminology) For some un-know reason the first trains created using the system were loaded to a maximum of 2/5 wagons or cars.

Train Consist Stg-NW-1 awaiting departure from Staging

Train Consist Stg-NW1 following arrival at NW, the crew uncoupled the Brake Van on the main line outside the yard while the loco shunts the coal wagon to the Wharf Siding before running round and completing the shunting.

The crew have uncoupled the coal wagon on the Wharf Siding and are now preparing to set back and collect the brake van.

The crew have re-attached the Brake Van to the train before running round and completing the shunting.

The crew have uncoupled H Van 17021 on the silo road before setting back to uncouple the Brake Van on the loop road to allow the Guard to finish his morning tea and read the paper.

B125 has uncoupled from the van, the crew have shut down the loco while waiting for todays out going wagons to be loaded/unloaded

Consist NW-Stg-2 which this time loaded to 3 cars a first using Operations Pro on this layout!

B125 has assembled its train and is now ready for departure.

NW-Stg-2 upon arrival in the staging. The traverser is just about long enough for a small GM. In practice the Tower Building and Overbridge act as a view blocker for the Staging allowing a maximum train length of a Bo Bo and 6 wagons.

It will be interesting to see if the system starts generating longer trains!

Some more progress on the Tin Vans. 

I ended up stripping 3 of the vans with Tamiya Paint Remover rather than attempt to repair or touch up the existing paintwork. I left the vans soaking in a covered ice cream container over night, before removing the paint residue with a tooth brush before rinsing and drying, I strained the used paint remover through a fine strainer before returning to the original container for re-use.

I primed the model with an aerosol etch primer, before applying a couple of coats of white auto primer and gloss giving the paint a week to cure before masking out the white line with 2mm Tamiya tape, then sealing the tape with a light coat of gloss white.

I sealed the masking tape with a further spray of white gloss before spraying the model gloss black (paper masking the interior).

I left the models for a week before masking the black and white areas of the body, again sealing the tape with a light spray of black before spraying the orange panels (orange was a custom mix matched to a MM Craven but turned out to be a different shade).

I will leave the models for a further week to allow the paint to cure before masking the sides to spray out the ends and running gear in a lightly weathered black. Hopefully at that stage transfers should have arrived so I can finish the models with a clear laquer, fit glaxing, wheels couplings, gangway covers and door handles and finally finish my Mail Train

Some progress in finding an alternate 3D print manufacturer for our wagons with some promising results from a business in South East Asia.

CIE 20T Brake with metal sheeted ducket.

GSR IRCH Standard Open.

Prints received to date have been to a high standard to a level of detail our previous suppliers have been unable to achieve such as the raised oval GSWR/GSR wagon plate, but the finer resolution also picked up on errors in the CAD work which resulted in missing spring hangers and other defects on the open.

At this stage I am planning to release our current wagon range on a pre-order basis from January 2023 for delivery March 2023 onwards at similar prices to those displayed on our website.

On 12/11/2022 at 6:21 AM, popeye said:

Interesting signal cabin at Dromod with the chimney at the front.

I'm sure there was others like that.

Quite common, MGWR standard design to replace cabins destroyed as a result of the Civil War. "Rock faced" concrete block base, internal staircase and frame placed at the rear of the  cabin.

CIEs losses increased significantly and UTA/NIR financial position improved in 1965/6 after the overnight "Derry Vacuum" was diverted to run via Lisburn and Antrim following the closure of the GNR Derry Road. 

The "Derry Vacuum" Irelands first fully fitted express freight or Liner Train was worked by a CIE loco between North Wall and Lisburn, with the UTA and NIR responsible for providing motive power (MPD, 70 Class Railcars, Hunslets & 111) between Lisburn and Derry. CIE were responsible for track maintenance and signalling costs in connection with the Derry Goods and freight terminal costs at Adelaide and Derry, I think the goods terminal staff at Adelaide and Derry may have been CIE rather than NIR employees who worked under the same conditions as their NIR colleagues.

Jonathan Allen's Flickr site has a good selection of photos of Derry goods traffic including fertiliser wagons and Uniload containers at the Waterside station.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/38707384890/in/album-72157690221607481/

&  70 Class Power Cars hauling a very mixed Derry Goods made up of a mixture of bagged, bubble cement, CIE container and what looks like Back to Back Fertiliser

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40247664354/in/album-72157713209886488/

Great progress, your models of Ballywillian and Crossdoney bring back memories of a sunny August afternoon I spent about 30 years ago in a Ford Escort Van exploring the Cavan Branch between Float and Crossdoney.

I like your model of Graiguenamagh Creamery small creameries were a distinctive feature of regions where dairy farming was significant until the industry was modernised with bulk collection (from the farm) and large processing plants during the 70s and 80s. A small creamery diorama with a queue of horse & VW drawn carts, tractors & trailers is almost a must for a 1900-1970s layout set in dairying areas like West & East Cork, North Kerry, Cavan, Monaghan, Longford, Kilkenny

My order arrived this afternoon 6 days shipping by DHL Carrickmines to Hamilton New Zealand.

I once saw a single 121 working an empty? northbound Fertiliser Train out of Cork during the loco crisis of the early 1990s

7 hours ago, seagoebox said:

Pearse, 24th |June 1988

It looks like a conversion of a 1356-1371 series Corridor 3rd/2nd introduced in the early 50s, these ran on GSR Bogies and had a more upright profile than the Laminate Brake Standards 1909-13 which were introduced in 1958-9. 

Some of the 1356-1371 coaches were converted into Brake Steam Generator Vans with the same window/door arrangement during the late 1970s

I re-located North Wharf from the garage to the home office which theoretically should frees up space in the garage to work on a 'permanent' 21mm gauge layout if I ever get round to making a decision on the N Gauge layout that's taken North Wharf's place in the garage and other junk.

North Wharf is basically a OO replacement for a 21mm dock layout I started 10 years ago but could not get to work in the same space because of the larger min-radius curves and longer points required in 21mm. I was also a bit to ambitious in incorporating two hand laid double slips in the crossover between the running lines and dock trackage. The new layout incorporates the distillery buildings, retaining wall and overbridge from the dock layout, which have not warped or twisted in nearly 10 years.

Electrically the layout is fed by a 4 way power box which will feed transformers for DCC Track Power, IR wireless or Radio Control, Point and Lighting power .

I will fit the layout with a lighting pelmet/proscenium arch arrangement to eliminate shadows and hide the shelf supports and a removable panel to disguise the traverser and control equipment.

Operationally the next jobs are to connect the IR/RC panel and the points to a power source and load the layout and wagon stock onto JMRI Operations in order to create "Train Consists" and 'Switch Lists"

With a maximum train length of 6 wagons and a maximum stock of 18 wagons and 5 possible destinations Operations should give some purpose to operating the layout and minimise the risk of boredom.

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

Just a thought…..

Would it be worth the MRSI and SDMRC and possibly Wexford MRC and NDMRC pooling their resources and maybe use the RDS as a single venue for future events?

With the increase in Irish railway modelling in this country surely an annual event similar to model rail Glasgow and Warley could be arranged and marketed with the potential of UK clubs being invited to exhibit their layouts etc,

Maybe it is one to discuss for the future. 

The MRSI used the RDS as an exhibition venue during the 1970s and 1980s, but moved to smaller venues because the cost of using the RDS became uneconomic. Attendances were very good during the 70s but the numbers dropped off as model railway exhibitions ceased to be a novelty to the general public.

Although the RDS exhibitions were drawing good crowds, the exhibitions were struggling to break even and committee members were worried about loosing their homes, some UK clubs had similar experiences with high venue hire costs and the chilling effects of large national events such as Warley on regional exhibitions.

There has been a considerable level of co-operation between clubs with MRSI, SDMRC, NDMRC and Wexford MRC and smaller clubs layouts appearing at each others exhibitions since the 1970s. 

I don't know if there is enough of a critical mass or interest among the Clubs to establish an umbrella body to promote Irish modelling and arrange conferences where modellers can socialise, play/buy trains and visit each others layouts similar to the recent NZMRC https://www.modelrailcon.nz/ , NMRA or UK "Scale" society conventions as opposed to staging a public exhibition.

I blame Tullygrainey  BCDR D1 build for taking me down the "Harlandic" rabbit-hole to discover the Silver City Comet an air conditioned train that ran between Parkes and Broken Hill New South Wales. (920km-570 Miles).

I knew H&W supplied locos/power units to Argentina, Canada and the Sudan, but New South Wales was completely new to me.

Similar in principal to other 1930s 'streamliners the Silver City Comet consisted of a 'Power Van" hauling 2-3 light weight coaches. 

Five diesel hydraulic power vans were originally fitted with 330hp Harlandic two stroke diesel engines and Voith Sinclair transmission geared to a maximum speed of 79mph with separate generator sets to power the lighting and AC.

The remaining power vans were re-built with 250hp GM two stroke Detroit diesel engines  and Alison transmissions in 1953 apparently as a result of difficulty obtaining spare parts.

However you look at it Silver City Comet appears to have been the most successful application of Harlandic diesel engines in rail traction, successfully operating high speed services in harsh Australian outback conditions.

The Harlandic engines were Danish Budmeister & Wein engines (now MAN 2 stroke marine division) built under license in Belfast, peeping down the rabbit hole the Danish State Railways began using diesel traction from the late 1920s including "power vans", and a 2-D-2 boxcab type that operated between 1932 and 1959. Haven't been able to figure out (Google translate) if any of the earlier DSB locos used B&W engines.

I like D1 Steam Outline appearance complete with what appears to be a bunker and side tanks, the other Harlandic diesels had similar design features.

At the time (1933) D1 was ground breaking in terms of a mixed traffic diesel electric loco capable of 60mph  branch line or light main line service.

10 hours ago, murphaph said:

I think someone on here once said that Tara mines ore went out through Foynes at the very beginning before the tippler in Dublin port was ready?

The initial shipments from Tara Mines were railed through Foynes (possibly in Mogul or Barytes wagons) as a result of an industrial dispute at Dublin Port.

The Tara Mine Terminal on Gouldings Wharf was blacked by former Goulding Fertiliser workers in an attempt to improve their redundancy payout.

Its difficult to see Tara output being transferred from Dublin Port to Foynes.

Its likely to take at a number of years to construct an ore terminal capable of unloading high capacity bogie wagons at Foynes,  while Tara Mines  appears to be approaching the end of its economic life with an estimated 8 years reserves in 2020.

Its possible that Boliden may absorb the output of the Pallas Green ore body as a replacement for Tara Mines as it approaches exhaustion, as opposed to the Pallas Green output going to a different smelter.

26 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I've posted this before but including here now for completeness. Any idea why there's that kink in the track in the distance?

The 'kink' is possibly as a result of the lifting of a crossing loop or singling of a section of double track. Its possible the train is arriving at Bridport the terminus of the 9¼ mile branch from Maiden Newton after the branch was reduced to a 'basic railway" in 1968 with the run-round loop and goods yard removed at the terminus.

There was a similar abrupt "kink' in the main line at the Dublin end of Enfield where the running road was slewed from the Down to the Up side of the formation after the MGWR main line was singled during the 1920s

35 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

This is an interesting one - a bit over-exposed but I think it makes a nice shot. Where? When?

One of my favourite spots West end of Lincoln station, early 1970s.  

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-lincoln-city-lincolnshire-england-high-street-level-crossing-and-train-43710963.html?imageid=5A922C76-18F0-4BB3-9E2A-86F8FCE0F3AE&p=639791&pn=1&searchId=a1771b59e91c7c95d700fa08184e0b84&searchtype=0

19 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Just spotted the 42' flats and containers are up on Hattons: https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/3156807/0/irish_railway_models/mfrnest

Correct me if I'm wrong but I I think its the first time they've carried IRM wagons? (I know they already carry Accurascale). Might be handy for some in the UK and around Liverpool

£87 on an item that sell on line in Ireland for €80 is a nice mark up especially when you consider IRMs customer discount and the lower UK Vat rate.

It reminds me of a small Dublin "supermarket" that bought bread retail from Dunnes rather than from a bakery or cash and carry.

On 25/10/2022 at 4:54 AM, jhb171achill said:

Here's today's contribution:

2.74 MB · 0 downloads

I think I posted the top two somewhere before, but for completeness, they are included here too.

There is an interesting parallel between the Scottish Region and the GSR in the 30 & 40s both used battery electric railcars. The 43 mile Aberdeen-Ballater line was worked by a Battery Multiple Unit (BMU) from the late 1950s until closure in 1966, the BMU was acquired by the RTC in Derby following closure and survives on the Royal Deeside Railway who re-opened a section of the Ballater Branch. The economics of both the Drumm Train and DMU appears to have been based on the availability of cheap hydro electricity, the BMU appears to have been a joint venture between the Scottish Region and the North east Scotland Hydro Electric Board. Interestingly the battery and diesel multiple running costs on the Aberdeen-Ballater line were similar and batteries used on the Drumm Trains and BMU appear to have had a similar life span (and the batteries on my garden railway locos nearly 60 years later!) 

The train in the photo appears to be a conventional DMU the BMU was based on a Lightweight Derby Unit with large panoramic cab windows.

https://railscot.co.uk/articles/Aberdeen_to_Ballater_by_BMU:_Notes_on_the_Battery_Railcar_Experiment/

Perhaps 'Senior" visited the Ballater line to check out the battery electric railcar and charging equipment.

On 24/10/2022 at 11:34 AM, Old Blarney said:

Push-Pull to Maynooth.

I travelled on a Push-Pull train (Former AEC Railcars and a B201 Locomotive) from Connely to Maynooth to Connely.  My driver, that day, was to take-up duties on the Bray-Greystones-Bray shuttle the following week. I believe from memory; this was the commencement of the shuttle service between Bray and Greystones.

David 

That sure takes me back, my first journey on the DART was on a sunny July 84 Saturday!

The Push-Pulls and the majority of early 1950s coaching stock were withdrawn following the commissioning of the DART in July 1984. One Push Pull set was retained for use on Bray-Greystones shuttles, the set used on the shuttles were fitted with main-line seating but was otherwise became increasingly decrepit. The shuttle was worked by a (B) 201 Class until replaced by a 121 in 87 or 88 shortly before being replaced by an NIR 80 Class which operated a more frequent service.

A lot of the early 50s stock went to the Great Southern Railway Preservation Society at Mallow and Tralee and Westrail Tuam, a few may survive at Downpatrick.

The introduction of the Mk3 stock allowed Cravens, Park Park Royal and TL fitted Laminate stock to be cascaded from Main Line to outer suburban and branch line services, with Cravens appearing on Connolly-Drogheda trains in 84-5.

8 hours ago, patrick said:

Lyons Tea had a small store in the North Kerry yard in Tralee on a bank between the gantry crane and county council tar depot. Prior to the introduction of the 20 foot containers I remember seeing 10 foot containers with Lyons Tea markings in open wagons in use for this traffic.

The Type A  Lyons Tea containers still appear to be available as a card kit. These were introduced for use with the Peco Wonderful Wagons container wagon which was considered to be state of the art with sprung buffers and sprung chassis by the standard of the 1960s. I usually saw one of these containers (in an open wagon) in a train being shunted by an E Class on the Kingsbridge (Heuston) Goods head shunt viewed from the top deck of the 23 bus during the mid late 60s.

The Lyons Tea containers seem to have appeared singly so possibly one container to each depot on a weekly or possibly more frequent cycle

In this part of the world Labour Holiday (last) weekend tends to be an important one for railway enthusiasts both model and full size with model railway exhibitions and main line steam running.

The local clubs exhibition was the first large exhibition I visited in nearly 3 years, the larger layouts were mainly New Zealand and American outline, British and Continental mainly smaller layouts, the main objective was to buy some Kadee couplers and a trip pin adjusting pliers!

The showpiece of the exhibition was the Hamilton Model Railroaders 9mm scale (O gauge track) Hamilton and Claudelands layout a model of the East Coast Main Trunk Line through the city and the Waikato River bridge before the railway was rebuilt to run through a tunnel under the city center and across a new Waikato Bridge.

Victoria Street (main street) crossing and Hamilton Station.  The railway was diverted to run through a tunnel through the goods yard area to eliminate the crossing. The site is now occupied by a large shopping center and office block, the 1930s brick building and one of the palm trees survived until recently. The Milk Bar is now an amusement arcade where young people 'hang out"

The Train is probably the Rotorua Express one of NZR principal passenger trains hauled by a K Class 4-8-4 on account of the Rotorua Branch lines steep grades.

These days the line through the city center tunnel is busier than ever but only carries freight.

The loco depot with a J 4-8-2 and K 4-8-4 and a tank loco, these models are likely to be scratch or kit builds no one produces 9mm NZR rtr.

Claudelands Bridge. Crossing the Waikato into my part of town the bridge was fabricated from 3D printed parts. The General Motors G12 and G8 export models were the mainstay of North Island main and branch line services from the late 50s until the much larger General Electric DX Class were introduced during the mid-1970s.

The railway was diverted to run across a new pre-stressed concrete bridge alongside the existing line and the original railway bridge converted to carry road traffic. For a long time the footbridge alongside the railway bridge and local passenger trains was the main access from Claudlands and some eastern suburbs into the city center.

Claudelands Station. A typical NZR small station with standard wooden building, single platform, running loop and yard layout.

The 'silver coaches" is a model of the "Silver Star Express" a short lived 1970s luxury sleeper train that operated an overnight Auckland-Wellington services.

The train was re-gauged from 3'6" to meter gauge and now operates as the Eastern and Oriental Express in Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand.

The "silver coaches" and some of the locos and stock used on the layout are 3D printed using FDM technology which provides an acceptable finish in the larger scales

 TT 1:120 Scale.   1:120 using N gauge track and loco/rolling stock chassis is an established scale for modelling 3'6" gauge and provides a spacious effect and long trains to be run in a relatively small space.

The model appears to be a large industrial site in the post 2000 era. Locos and stock appear to be assembled from locally manufactured kits, one of the interesting features was that some of the locos were fitted with sound including a distinctive English Electric engine sound from one of the locos.

Metroland?

This layout always brings back fond memories of living in London during the 80s with the nicely modelled LT infrastructure and the Metroland architecture though it was long past the era of red Tube & Surface trains and steam on the Met.