Noel

Hi Lads , I was talking to Paddy Murphy this evening and the pallet of 201's have arrived in Dublin .

Custom and the VAT to be sorted before the 201's are released into the Murphy Models warehouse where they will prepared for the launch at the MRSI show .

There are 200 models of NIR 208 River Lagan and 200 models of NIR 209 River Foyle .

There are 250 models of Enterprise 230 River Bandon in original livery and 250 models of 233 River Clare same as 203 but with full yellow face .

The prices are remaining the same as the current 201 until November and will increase . Paddy is aware of finances and advises to buy early before the price increase.

Paddy will not have a definite price until later in the month .

Paddy will have a few 141 / 181 spare loco chassis for sale at the show for €80 if anyone needs a replacement / spare .

It is hoped to have samples of the up and coming MK11's Supertrain livery coaches at the show .

Thanks for the feedback.

Forgive, but unfortunately 201s and super train liveried Mk2 are not of interest to me personally. Not a fan of either in their bland early liveries (i.e. the prototypes not the models). Does anybody know what the current or future stock position of mk2 in intercity livery with twin white stripes and orange roof is or might be? Hopefully one day 121 and 001 may emerge as MM models if the marketing numbers stack up. If dreaming add Park Royal and Laminate coaches.

For now I will enjoy operating the amazing 141/181 and 071 fleet I have collected. They can operate with a fantastic mix of rolling stock, especially older wagons and coaches.

Thanks BK, very useful. They are superb. Any recommendations for folk who are skilled and experienced enough to take similar 'commission' work?

PS: The last question was about wheel pickups in tender as well as loco chassis, but I suspect they are having read Hornby and Bachmann service sheets this evening.

Just been reading up on new Hornby Locos with TTS sound decoders - stunningly good prices for onboard DCC sound. On youtube they seem to sound as good as ESU LokSound. The key functional difference is the decoder has only two concurrent sound channels, so you can play one other sound at the same time as the main loco steam drive or diesel engine noise (e.g. steam/engine plus whistle). The LokSound allow up to 8 concurrent sounds to be played. For the price difference I think I could live with 2 simultanious sound channels with that (i.e. £25 v £120). The Hornby TTS decoders still have up to 16 different sound functions. The Locos seem somewhat less detailed than their premium sound locos, but seem a similar standard to the Hornby steam locos I bought 15-20 years ago.

Has anybody else on here any direct experience of Hornby TTS locos?

If Hornby and Bachmann both go down the low cost DCC sound route it may give 'sound' the shot in the arm it needs and cause price drops in the coming years.

Or my personal Favourite

BK, they look and sound fantastic. Agree the A4 is the biz.

A few questions if you don't mind. I'm 15 years out of date with the technical specs of newer Hornby and Bachmann loco chassis.

1. Did you fit the DCC sound + speakers or did the locos come RTR with sound?
   
2. If the former, where did you put the speaker, and if in the tender did you use a plug-able harness between loco and tender?
   
3. Did you retro-fit the smoke system?
   
4. How long does the smoke last before 'topping up' is needed?
   
5. Do any of these newer model locos have wheel pickups from tender as well as loco chassis?
   

The old Hornby A1/A4s I have are tender drive with pickups on one side of the loco or tender which effectively means two wheels only each side.

Thanks in advance, this clips above were exactly what I was looking for.

Hi Guys, thanks for replies so far. I already have DCC sound on an MM 071, could not resist the cost to see what DCC sound was like, and yes it is impressive and adds to the operating ambience in a dramatic way but at a ridiculous cost IMHO given the actual cost of microelectronics these days. I would find it difficult to justify sound chipping many other locos at current prices. Am tempted even at current prices to put sound in one of my tender steam locos. Having one of each sound on the layout until the cost of DCC sound drops to sensible levels will add a provisional novelty to running.

I am interested in what experience folks on here have had with DCC sound on steam locos. Ironically retro-fitting DCC sound to large tender locos seems easier, but my preference would be sound on 0-6-0 tank locos which are not ideal candidates space wise. It may be more cost effective to buy a new DCC sound equipped 57xx loco from Bachmann or Hornby than risk butchering one of my existing tank locos. I won't hold my breath waiting for DCC sound decoders to drop to €50! Noel

PS: I found the volume way too high on my 071 but managed to reduced it to 35% using a CV. Now there is a nice balance between simulated loco engine noise and real rail noise.

And is it worth it? Does it work?

I'm astonished to see Hornby steam locos at insane prices over €300 for DCC sound equipped tender locos. It looks like adding sound to an existing steam loco could cost up to €130 (i.e. sound decoder + speaker + sound file). At these prices I can't see 'sound' becoming the norm despite the fact the the chips cost only a few euro more to manufacture than standard decoders. Sound is one of the key attractions of DCC, but at the moment it seems priced for the 'foolish' (myself included), until market volume kicks in and it becomes the mass market norm years down the road after competitive forces reign.

I read that over a year ago Bachmann announced 'economy' sound locos at very reasonable prices. Has anybody heard any of them?

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/New-Economy-OO-DCC-Sound-Locomotives-Announced-By-Bachmann

If models didn't sell out, there would be less incentive to do more runs, ironically, so the selling out of a model is a good thing, not the opposite. While that does sometimes mean the price of second hand can rise over time, particularly in the case of desirable, or rare or limited run models, such is the situation in all fields of collection / modelling / hobbies. Even a 'small' run of 504 locomotives, assuming all the tooling costs have already be absorbed (am sure some have not yet been) will cost north of 75,000 Euro by the time they land (if not more these days with the costs in china increasing).

 

These days there are few that will spend that kind of cash on a 'speculative' re-run? As has been highlighted, the market is small, probably closer to 600-700 'buyers' of Irish stock these days, and even that small number likely represents a doubling in the last 5 years, primarily thanks to the work put in and excellent models produced by paddy Murphy, Leslie (Provincial Models), SSM, Glenderg, DRM Models, Irish Freight Models and many more! A run of 504 of any one model is 'about right' I would think for this market.

Makes a lot of sense. It is remarkable that MM seem to have managed to sell over 10k locos in the past six years during the worst economic recession since the 1920s. If I understand it correctly the superb run of 141, 181, 071 and 201 locos only appeared on the market after Lehman brothers had collapsed in 2008 triggering the virtual collapse of most consumer markets. I've no idea how big the market is for Irish stock, but I guess most folk who have always wanted to own top quality RTR loco stock but could not get it before 2008 have probably bought by now.

Personally if the production numbers stack up in the future, I would be keen to collect some MM variants of 121 class GMs, especially 001 class MVs, park royals and laminate (stainer like) coaching stock in B&T and Snail green liveries. Some of these locos are available in kit form or as specialist collector items but at a rather high price and don't seem to come with dual bogie all wheel drive and all wheel pickup chassis like the MM GMs which run better over Peco point work than any models I have ever owned. The MM 141/181 locos are master pieces of micro engineering. Produce 001s and 121s of the same standard as the 071s and I'd guess a significant portion of the existing existing customer based would jump at them.

But that may be wishful thinking as newer modellers may be more interested in 22000, CAV Mk4, and 2800 type stock. Personally my modelling era interest is primarily the GM era of 60s and 70s. Personally I found the super train 'era' coaching livery rather bland and boring looking and the longer coaches don't fit as well on many model layouts (mk2 & mk3). At least the dual white stripes of the IE era gave coaches a visual lift which scales down better to models. As they say in the movies, the full size 201 class GMs never 'blew my skirt up' (if I had a skirt that is, or was Scottish). My loco interest ceased with the 071s. IMHO, silent DMUs, Darts and Luas aren't real trains! (running for cover now). There is nothing like the sound of GMs.

Spare metal gears can be supplied by PeterSpares uk www.petersspares.com]

Part no X8440 temp unav

X 8469 X 8426

Thanks WL. I probably should try and source a small dealer service/spares kit for hornby and bachmann (eg bushes, springs, insulating spacers, screws, running gear screws, phosphor bronze, assorted wheels, couplings, loco axils, axil insulators, etc). I resume hornby and bachmann had such spares kits.

Always great to see this layout in action, the 60's - 70's is a great era to model.

Hear hear. Superb layout scenes.

Thanks, Noel! Tedious but worth it and a great help to the rest of us.

I think that based on the number of people that this will be useful to, now and going forward, it is worthy of a sticky

Thanks, hopefully it may save some newbies like myself some time and help a few avoid the same pot holes I did or nearly fell into.

Just about to convert two more 0-6-0 tank engines but have decided I will try fitting keep-alive decoders with capacitors into these as I have one diamond crossing on each of the two main line dual tracks that the 0-6-0s sometimes stall or slow briefly at. Also some of my older Hornby tender drive locos will either need extra wheel pickups or keep-alive modules.

These older tender drive models effectively only pick up on two wheels each side which is pathetic (i.e. two wheels on port side of tender and two wheels on stbd side of loco chassis). I presume modern Hornby tender locos have pick ups on all wheels including tenders - or do they?

I noticed one of my 15yo Bachman 2-6-2 tank locos have additional wired pickups to the bogies as well as main chassis wheel pickups, and runs like a dream at crawl speed of all our points and crossings on DC. The older Hornby tender drives really do need extra pickups, but I'm going to try keep-alive in one before converting any more of them.

Yes the website content is somewhat out of date, but I don't mind at all as long as his incredible model range remain available from the retail/web channel. The web site coverage by store and online retailers of his fabulous products are what is important. From what I understand it's a one man operation which is an awesome achievement to have produced such stunning and precision range of locos. I guess the website is really designed to serve dealers and retailers rather than consumers. I found the technical content useful. He keeps 'delivering the goods' so my mild frustration at the web site currency is not an issue for me personally. Some of the retailers have excellent MM content with detailed photos.

Looking forward to whatever new stock is 'coming down the line' in the future - forgive the pun!

Noel, I've just been looking at richrua's site & he is I think, just repainted the carriages your talking about, now I may be very wrong as I'm not sure what's what when it comes to the various carriage codes

Thanks BTB, found it (see below).

I am actually quite emotional. I never thouğht i could model irish anything

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13708[/ATTACH]

This is great richrua. What livery were the coaches before you repainted them? I hadn't realised the Mk2a/b's had run in ROI (i.e. with middle door and opening window frames) until Magpie's post. Your success is causing me to rethink what to do with these early BR Mk2s.

How to fix metal gear back on to ring field motor shaft?

I bought a Hornby R084 LMS Maroon Princess Elizabeth in 1994. I had never taken it out of the box until this evening. In preparation for DCC conversion I decided to see how she would run 'as new' out of the box on DC in case she needed servicing after laying up in the box for 20 years. She ran perfectly for about 5 mins and seemed to have plenty of grease and lube, however she stopped with high pitched whine as the motor ran but no drive. The metal gear had come off the motor shaft inside the tender. I assume it either had some sort of thin metal sleeve to lock it on the shaft, or some sort of lock tight glue. That whole area of the motor is wheel greased and lubed with oil.

Metal gear loose on motor shaft.

It's a Ringfield type 6 motor. Any suggestions how I might re-fix the gear tight on the motor shaft? Will I have to completely disassemble the motor to re-fix it? I'm sure this must have happened to folks before. Thanks in anticipation.

PS: It was a pity because she looked a quick and easy DCC conversation with space for the decoder inside the tender which I would have finished in less that 1/2 hour.

Thanks Magpie. That is very informative especially the mk2 history which I was not aware of. Now do I re spray them CIE, or keep them in BR livery for childhood nostalgia and run behind a 40yo Hornby CL 37. On balance I think I'll just rewheel and keep the old blue/grey livery. Cheers

Noel

Good Evening All,

 

The list of stall holders in attendance is as follows:

Allocated to: Product Type

Brian Collins Enterprises (Die-cast Models)

Phil's American Outline (American Outline)

Myles O' Reilly (Diecast Models)

M+M Models (Die-cast Truck Models)

Ray Elliott - Diecast Models 4 U (Die-cast Models)

Irish Transport Books & Models - Dirmud Byrne (Transport Books & Railway Kit Models)

Sean Ryan (Railway Models)

Motorama Models (Die-cast Models)

Decs Model Garage - Declan O' Reilly (Dioramas & Code 3 Models)

Kieran Nolan (Soldiers Figures)

Noel Sharpe (Die-cast Models)

Martin O' Hanlon (Die-cast & Railway Models)

Woodcreations - Patrick Burke (Display Cases)

Author Maxon (Die-cast & Railway Models)

Peter Scott (Die-cast Models)

Walter O'Berle/Kinvara-Model-Train (Railway Models)

Owen Kelly (Die-cast Models)

Michael Dryhurst (Die-cast Models)

Tony Gallagher (Old / Retro Toys)

Dave Bracken (Railway Models)

Edward White (Model Railway Scenery)

Model Rail Baseboards (Baseboards)

Clifton Flewitt (Books & Railway Kits)

Collector Toys (Die-cast Truck Models)

 

Noel, I hope this give you an overview of who's attending on Sunday?

 

Many of the traders in attendance like myself, are registered business.

 

Thank you,

 

Brian Collins

T/A Brian Collins Enterprises

Thanks Brian. Might see you there Sunday if I get finished early.

Ok got back to 'split chassis' DCC conversion this evening. All that remained to be done was connect the decoders red and black wires to each side of the chassis!!! Hmmm - that was not the easiest as there is nowhere to anchor the wires, and not a 1/2mm spare between the chassis and the loco body, so couldn't sandwich the wires between the chassis with insulators on one side and could not run the wires back inside the body as no room above or either side of the chassis which completely fills all space inside the boiler.

Solution was to file a small front section of both chassis sides clean and drill a hole in each chassis half into which I could directly solder the wires.

It took two attempts to successfully solder to the chassis sides and I had to use the big soldering iron to create enough heat so that the solder was taking to the chassis metal in the hole. The hole was about 3mm deep. View of the rear of the chassis halves. These ends will be in the loco cab with the wires running to the decoder in the coal bunker. WARNING - When soldering to the chassis halves remove all other heat sensitive components (i.e. the motor, plastic insulator grommets, spaces, and the white screw lugs).

Putting the chassis sandwich back together again is fiddly but with care positioning the three plastic separating insulators and the two white screw anchors. Three screws hold the chassis halves together. These screw into the plastic isolators which go through a plastic shim. The three shims theoretically separates the two chassis halves at the exact distance to allow smooth running of the gears.

Temporarily hooked up the chassis halves to the rails via clip leads to test the smooth running of the motor and gears before final reassembly. This is where the three chassis screws may need a little loosening to barely widen the gap between the two chassis so that the motor runs freely. This bit was trial and error until I got smooth running.

I made the mistake at first attempt to put the wheels back in the chassis and screw back the under plate before I had reinserted the chassis into the loco body. It was much easier to fit the bare chassis back into the body and feed the four decoder wires aft into the cab without the wheels and under frame on.

A little detail. Two small notches cut in the cab floor so that the new solder joints to the chassis do not get pulled out when refitting the chassis into the body.

At last done - put 5796 on the rolling road for a test run. These split chassis Bachmanns do not like to be disturbed, and I had to make one more small adjustment to the chassis screws before she would run freely again. Effectively though this loco will need to be 'run in' again.

Finished - BR (ex-GWR) 5796 Pannier tank loco with TCS T1-LED decoder. Needs a final bit of tidying up by painting the visible wires inside the cab black.

I have to say it was quite a lot of bother, and trial and error, probably because it was my first attempt at a split chassis tank loco, and I nearly got fed up with it. Hopefully as I learn more about the different loco chassis/body combinations future conversions will take less time. How anybody puts sound decoders and a speaker into a 0-6-0 tank loco is a mystery to me unless they are watch makers! I think I will pass on that one. There is actually enough space to put a small speaker in the cab but it would be partially visible.

Anyway she is running well, but needs another 45mins running in time to really loosen her up. I had greased the gears and lubricated her before putting her back together.

What have I learned about fitting DCC to a non-DCC ready split chassis Bachman?

• Ensure the loco is a smooth runner on DC before conversion - DCC won't make a poor runner any better
  
• If a new loco, run it in for an hour on DC before conversion
  
• Recommend using a decoder that comes with a removable harness (e.g. 9pin harness). Saves wires breaking off the decoder and means you only have to feed the decoder plug through gaps in the loco during assembly (i.e. rather than the decoder)
  
• Ensure the motor is 100% electrically isolated from the chassis and track. Only the orange and grey wire should connect with the motor pickups.
  
• Be patient and very very gentle when taking apart. Make a note of where different length screws were used on the chassis.
  
• When soldering to chassis ensure you don't melt any plastic components on the chassis (i.e. remove all plastic bushes, lugs and spacers). Using an Iron hot enough to solder to the chassis metal generates a lot of heat in the chassis.
  
• Test the decoder on your DCC test track (i.e. see if it can be read). If you made a booboo with the wiring the decoder will not read, but at least it won't be fried if you use the test track (i.e. it uses low power).
  
• At stages of reassembly test the motor and gears are running freely before putting the wheels and body back on
  
• Buy DCC ready locos in future.
  

Next up another 0-6-0 Bachmann 5700 tank loco, but the next one is not a split chassis model so it should be a lot quicker, but I expect I may have to cut away a piece of the chassis if I want to locate the decoder completely out of sight in the boiler (i.e. not in the coal bunker with wires through the cab). Alternatively I might do one of my 20yo Hornby tender drive Princess class. Good Night.

Any news Brian, trading as Brian Collins Enterprises?

Been out of touch for years with these sort of shows and events, what are these shows/fares like? Are they worth a visit? I don't want to waste my time going to a 'car boot sale' type event where folk are just selling common second hand toy train items, but would be interested if there were good trade stands selling collectable model railway kit.

Superb photos. Thanks for posting. How did you manage to keep getting ahead of the train so much to take intermediate shots?

The EGV looks a bit worse for wear - a bit like a health and safety hazard about to dissolve into rust. How are the four coaches utilised? Looking through the windows it looked like the PAX use the two new livery coaches while the other RPSI blue coaches seemed service vehicles (i.e. onboard staff and supplies). We are planning to do a trip like this one day on the Scottish western isles, preferably behind a steam loco. I hope the venture proves successful for the folks behind it. How many PAX are on board the train?

Excellent work there Noel, just one point, the warranty is void on the chip when you cut the plug off. But given the very tight squeeze in that loco you would have no other way of doing it. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

Thanks Dave et al. That particular TMS decoder comes with a wires only harness, no plug at the loose end only the 9 pin plug that mates with the decoders pcb socket. AAMOI I bought a few extra 9 pin harnesses so I can wire more locos to the harness before committing them to a specific chip, and so I can swap decoders to match the motors in different locos. Many of the main decoder vendors seem to have variants of their decoders with 9pin pcb sockets.

Somebody having a bit of fun with an experiment. It is interesting that he managed to balance the effort of the 9 locos which avoided derailments due to wagon compression on the tight inner radius curves, or tension on the wide outer curves pulling wagons towards the centre of the circle.

I remember over 40 years ago on a club layout trying to see how many coaches we could pull behind a single loco. The contest was won by a Hornby Dublo 'Castle' class loco that managed to pull a rake the length of the full orbit of the small layout bar one coach length. Can't remember how many coaches but it seemed like about 20-25 which was one heck of a deal back then with old and heavy coach technology with plastic wheels.

OK two simple old Hornby’s converted to DCC so far (Pannier Tank + Class 25), now to tackle some of my more difficult Bachmann steam locos. Most are about 20 years old and none are DCC ready. So I have decided to start with the most difficult:

A Bachmann 31-901 BR Pannier Tank loco with the awkward split chassis. Space is tight and the split chassis is grounded to both rails!!!

Power pickup on all wheels due to split chassis

Bachmann split chassis have a clever arrangement where the split axils transfer power separately to each side of the split chassis. Each chassis half connects directly to the motor bush on the same side using a sprung metal tab the connects one side of the motor with the opposing chassis half.

Chassis sandwiches the motor with power pick up on all wheels via split axils

There isn’t a millimetre spare between the chassis and the inside of the loco body, and no part of the chassis that can be cut off without destroying it’s functional integrity.

1st task is to establish where the decoder might fit. There is no space inside the boiler area and no metal I can cut off the chassis to squeeze it in, but there will be plenty of space in the coal bunker once I remove the coal bunker from the rest of the model and extract the cast iron weight that fills the bunker space.

The coal bunker that contains a weight comes off the back. Carefully remove a metal railing the connects the removable aft coal bunker to the roof section before pivoting the bunker backwards.

Remove the cast iron weight to make space for the decoder

Next is to explore how these split chassis locos are built. Basically the motor is sandwiched between the two halves sides of the chassis that are electrically isolated from each other by plastic bushing separators. Three screens into plastic receptors hold the two chassis halves together. There are NO wires, the two motor bushes touch each side of the chassis with a sprung metal strip. These have to be isolated from the chassis for DCC.

On RHS side of motor you can see the metal sprung tab the would contact the missing chassis half on this side. This has to be isolated and soldered to decoder.

You can just make out the sprung metal strip at the bottom of shot that normally connects the motors bush to one side of the chassis.

Motor removed. Bend sprung tabs inwards and solder grey/orange decoder wires to each using heat shrink and insulation tape for added measure to fully isolate the motor pickups from the live chassis.

Solder decoder grey/orange wires to the two motor bush contact strips

Use heat shrink plus insulation tape to ensure motor is totally isolated from both chassis sides.

Motor soldered to decoder grey/orange wires, sprung contacts isolated with shrink wrap, and some insulation tape added for good measure. Ready to attempt to reassemble the two chassis halves

Motor connected to decoder grey/orange wires reinstalled in the chassis sides. It was like putting a swiss watch back together with all the plastic bushes and separators. Careful not to over tighten the screws or the two halves will compress the motor too much leading to binding.

First I connected the decoder to the test track using jump leads to verify the connections to the motor were working ok. Then I had to do a test run of the motor back inside the chassis adjusting the three chassis screws so the motor and gears could run freely (ie not compress the two halves too close together).

Final step tomorrow is to connect the decoder’s black and red wires to each half of the chassis. I have elected to do this using sprung contacts squeezed between the gap between the chassis sides isolated using a piece of plastic card. I don’t have the tools to drill and tap the chassis for screws to solder the red and black wires, and they will not solder directly to the chassis block. More to follow as soon as I get the contact strips installed between the two chassis sides . . . TBC

This is all very fiddley but enjoying it

Good night

That's a sliverfox model noel, either rtr or kit available. Boxcar willie has just completed a kit build with mousa overlay brass etches - another option. Richie

Thanks Richie. I have a rake of very old Lima Mk1s in original CIE livery. I'm wondering if I could or should attempt converting two of them to EGVs, or go for Silverfox. Neither my eyesight nor my hand coordination are what they were 10 years ago, not sure my modelling skills would be up to it. Reading the other thread of Boxcar Willie's with interest.

Need recommendation for a source of replacement wheels.

I have a rake of old 1970s Hornby early BR MkIIs. They won't make suitable donors for repaint to CIE or IE colours due to the window frames and extra doors. The wheels are metal rims over plastic wheels and square axils, but they are gauged too narrow for Peco points. Probably fine on old 1970s Hornby set track but not Peco 100 points. I'd like to try and salvage them for nostalgia reasons as I've had them since I was a youngster.

As a matter of interest, any idea why BR and NIR mk2 stock had the split window frame panels, whereas the CIE/IE mk2 stock had single window panes (i.e. like BR mk3s)?

Cravens - Vac braked and steam heated, needs Mk1 Steam van or original Dutch van.

Hi BosKonay

Was reading over some interesting old threads. Do you mind me asking the source of this model? Was it a Silverfox, RTR, Kit, or a self build or modification?

Thanks

Noel

How does the Parcel Motel work then? Do you put their address in the delivery info & they tell you when its dropped off at the nearest machine to you??

1. You register an account with them

2. You specify your local pick up location

3. Use their address as your delivery address BUT with your registered ID number on 1st line of address (1 above)

4. When they deliver to your local pickup location you get an SMS and an email with a pin number

5. You goto the pickup point enter your phone number and pin number and hey presto one of the doors opens with your parcel inside

http://www.parcelmotel.com