Noel

Noel, that loco is noisy, much more so than mine.

 

My small GMs use Loksound V3.5 decoders, 2 with Mr Soundguy sounds. He used to do sound for DCC Supplies, but now does it for Belfast Model Shop on Zimo decoders. I used to have one loco fitted with a Zimo from BMS, but I could not get it to match with the Loksounds for multiple running, so I sold it on. I also have 2 locos fitted with V3.5 decoders with modified downloads from ESU. Although not correct in terms of original loco type, in my opinion, they capture the sound of small GMs brilliantly. Irishthump got the same loco sound blown for him on a V4 decoder some time ago, and posted a video of it on this site.

I also had an 071 and a 201 fitted with Zimo decoders from BMS, but, although the sounds were good, I just could not get the sounds to synchronise with the loco movement, unlike the Loksounds. They too were sold on and replaced with V4s.

After CV54 auto calibration. Speed much better but still noisy.

[video=youtube_share;2wQnYVfwYVM]

Will try it on DC later to see if its quieter at low speed.

A retaining wall needs to be built before passenger trains can use the main platforms once again.

Is this a case of H&S lunacy or are there actual serious problems with the cliff face (i.e. massive boulders falling down rather than mere 1ft rocks)? Should do what the swiss railways do, just clip the rock face in inexpensive chicken wire, instead of insanely expensive concrete structures that are totally over engineered.

End result

Bachmann 57xx Pannier tank split chassis after DCC conversion using TCS-T1 decoder.

[video=youtube_share;HLJQaGN6xOY]

I will replace this with a TCS T1-KA 2 (keep alive) decoder to help it over insulfrog points. In the other 57xx which is also bachmann but not split chassis I will try a DCC Concepts ZEN ZN68 which is much better value (if it works), and very compact but not suitable for very old motors requiring more than 1amp.

After these two conversions are complete I hope to be able to standardise on decoders for the rest of my 15-20yo steam collection. The older locos will be retired to static display (e.g. Hornby Dublo, Triang and older Hornby). Hopefully I won't need keep-alive modules in the tender locos that have longer wheel bases and more pickups.

Fitting 21pin decoders into MM GMs seems very easy compared to these older models.

I like the look of 230,not sure about 233,

Really like the NIR blue and will probably get 208 and 230,

There goes the wedding fund money!!!

Nothing to do with the model as it is a replica of the real thing, but I always thought the NIR blue loco liveries were rather plain (i.e. fischer price like). Two or three tone colouring always looks better, especially with a little bit of lining for detail. The NIR marketing department could perhaps modernise the branding.

Must be an NCE thing. My Lenz works fine on POM. I have just been checking one of my 071s against a 181. My 141/181s are fitted with Loksound V3.5 decoders, and at crawl speed, with sound off, the 181 produced a faint sound similar to the 071 like you described. The 071 actually crawls slower than the 181, but is slightly noisier. Must just be the motor type, after all, the locos are made by different manufacturers for MM. Anyway, since all my locos are sound fitted, and I don't run my locos with the sound off, it is not such an issue for me.

Thanks DV, that was very helpful. As you say it could have been a LokSound/NCE thing re the need to use program track. Other CVs can be POM fine with the LokSound, just CV54 refused so far. I've never had an issue with the Lenz either. I am astonished how slow and utterly silent the 141s and 181s are with both Lenz Silver and Bachmann 36-557 decoders. I've never owned locos so smooth at crawl before and so smooth over peco code 100 insulfrog points.

Comparison BEFORE recalibration - the hum is coming from the 071, the 181 is silent

Both speed step 1 of 28

[video=youtube_share;Unu499Iy4d4]

I consider myself relatively new to DCC so I learn something new every time I try something different with it. Being an IT bod, I find the whole DCC decoder thing fascinating, with no real standards between decoder manufacturers other than the API and track DCC messaging standards despite NMRA.

Ideally it would be easier to standardise on one brand of decoder and learn their programming, BEMF, speed curves and motor tuning CVs. But not all decoders fit or suit all locos, especially older non-DCC steam locos where TCS and DCC Concepts Zen seem to have the edge for fit and driving older spec models with limited wheel pickups and compact keep-alive features for running slowly over points.

PS: What sound chips do you use in your MM 141/181s - Zimo or ESU or other?

Success! Thanks DV.

Auto calibration, CV54 needed to be set to 0 on the program track rather POM, then lift loco onto the main, press F1 and off she set like a march hare. It won't work if CF54 is set to 0 on the main track! Could be an NCE thing.

The auto tuning seemed to set CVs51-55 to similar values to yours. Minor adjustment to CV2 after as she was a little too slow, and now she is creeping as slowly the as the 141s and 181a. However the motor is still noisy at crawl speeds which is probably because ESU handle BEMF differently to the Lenz silver decoders in the 141/181s. When I get some spare time I will try a Lenz silver in the 071 to see if that makes a difference to the motor noise when crawling. I wonder of the ESU decoder is using aggressive PWM pulsing at low speed steps.

One other disapointing niggle with my new rake of cravens are the ultra reflective mirror like windows. None of my other coaches have plastic windows as reflective and you can clearly see inside the coaches from any viewing angle, but from some angles the craven's reflective windows really spoil the look of the coaches. Has anybody found a way to weather them or make them more satin in appearance (e.g. like Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol coaches which have clear plastic sheets behind the window frames rather than flush glazing plastic which obviously is not flat due to moulding).

Very strange Noel. It must be something to do with the NCE system. Although I have set up an NCE system for a friend, I am not familiar enough with it to make any suggestions.

 

I have just been checking my 071s, and found one that I had not calibrated. I have now just done it using the instructions mentioned, and it did exactly what it should have done.

 

Anyway, what I would suggest, is either try the calibration using someone else's equipment, not NCE, or put in manual entries. Having checked my locos, I found the calibrated CV values were very similar in all locos, so you could try those. Loco 1, CV51 0, CV52 18, CV53 89, CV54 50, CV55 18. Loco 2, CV51 0, CV52 18, CV53 94, CV54, 57, CV55 18.

Thanks DV. I will try those later. Having just re-read the "ESU LokSound v4.0 Murphy Models Class 071/111" manual, the CVs don't seem to match yours and they don't document CV51. The LokSound 4.0 manual on the ESU website coincides with your suggestions and setting.

I will post a video later showing a 181 and 071 running side by side one speed step 1 of 28. The 071 motor is noisy with hum and the loco moving at about three times the crawl speed of the 181 which is totally silent. I'm sure I am doing something wrong. I wonder if the MM LokSound chip has been programmed differently in some way. I might try another CV8=8 reset on the programming track. I've had not problems so far programming other aspects of this decoder (e.g. brightness of lights and sound volume).

Anyway video to follow as soon as I get to upload it at my jurassic Eircom broadband speeds.

Thanks. But after storing 0 in CV54, the sound starts immediately I press F1 and loco does not move.

It's the Murphy 071 sound decoder which I think is a LokSound 4.0.

Noel, have you calibrated the motor of the 071 using CV 54. The Loksound V4 decoder has an automatic calibration process which involves matching the characteristics of the motor with the decoder.

 

Place the loco on a piece of level track, at least 10ft long. Make sure the loco is going to run in the direction of the clear track. Switch off all functions, and set speed at 0. Enter 0 into CV 54, and go back to the throttle. Press F1, and the loco will take off like a scalded cat for a second or two and then stop. The engine noise starts, and your loco is calibrated.

Thank DV

When you say press F1 do you mean function 1 button. I tried that but it switches the loco sound on (i.e. engine startup). Also tried setting CV 54 to 0 and then speed step 1.

Thanks

Noel

I have one 071 but a number of 141/181s and have noticed a marked difference in speed range on DCC. The 071 has a higher top speed, but the 141/181s I have are far superior at ultra slow start and crawl speeds. They are also silent whereas the 071 starts at a higher speed with some motor hum. Has anybody else noticed this or could this just be the 071 sample I have. It is quite noisy at startup compared to the totally silent 141/181s.

The 071 has LokSound v4 decoder, and the 141/181 have a mix of Lenz Silver and Bachmann 36-557 decoders. All set to 28 step speed. I've tried a few different CV settings on the LokSound including setting CV2 to zero and one, but I cannot seem to get it to start anywhere near as slow as the 141/181s. It could be different gearing. Has anybody noticed similar difference between their 141/181 and 071 locos, or any words of wisdom?

Thanks.

Noel

Here's an interesting thread on the subject of 141 couplings....

 

http://www.irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/527-Improving-the-looks-for-MM-141-181

That is fantastic. Thanks for digging that thread out. I might try this with the other end of the loco and put the standard coupling back in. As the 141/181s are so short having the coupling fixed to the body rather than the bogie should be fine. Many thanks all for replies. Running in 183 as I type.

UPDATE: Skirt fitted ok after shaving 1/2mm off the front of the coupling socket.

The coupler pulls out Noel allowing you to fit the skirt, you'll see the 2 holes where the skirt fits into.

Thanks, I have the coupler removed, it is the NEM coupler socket that seems just a shade too long

I have found, on a couple(!) of occasions, that it has been necessary to shave tiny bits off the corners of the coupler socket, or they strike the pin-mouldings on the back of of the front skirt insert and then cause the odd derailment. Only happened on two locos out of about a dozen that I know of.

 

See what happens in your case.

Thanks, that is what I thought but wanted to check before taking out the scalpel.

Hi Guys.

I've been fitting decoders to some of my Murphy 141/181s and decided to detail the front end of each loco by removing the coupling and adding the optional additional detailing.

How should the front skirt be fitted? Does it just push on, and do I need to cut away any of the NEM coupling socket which seems to protrude a little far forward?

Thanks in advance

Noel

PS: Thanks to whoever advised me a few weeks ago not to bother removing the walkway hand rails when prizing the body top off a 141/181, just disconnect the two cab ends. Saved me a lot of fiddling. Used two wooden ice cream sticks to squeeze the body sides at the lugs and then micro flat head to push body sides up 1mm.

Thanks for posting those pics. The Enterprise livery looks superb.

Thanks for posting those pics. The Enterprise livery looks superb.

They should be of great interest to NIR and Enterprise fans. Personally prototype 201's never interested me, but I may buy one of the Intercity grey/green liveried Irish rail 201s (i.e. Mk4/CAF livery). Its a nice livery, but the early orange, yellow and black 201s must have been the ugliest loco liveries ever run in Ireland, second only to the silver of the 1950s C class. There is just something boring about the look of 201s compared to the earlier GMs that had such character.

Each on to their own taste. Post 071 class Irish railways and vanilla DMUs hold no interest for this 1960/70s era fan. Mind you I never liked the 'super train' coach livery of the early 70s Mk2's either. It was much improved with the two white bands either side of the black in the IR/IE era, but personally I thought the original black against orange looked awful.

My personal wish list for possible MM future stock:

• 001 Class - Black CIE, B&T CIE Livery (i.e. black roof small orange band under black)
  
• 121 CIE/IR livery
  
• Park Royal mainline coaches (B&T IE/IR and snail green)
  
• Bredin/laminate mainline coaches (B&T CIE and snail green) Stanier lookalikes
  
• Open wagons corrigated panels - non braked
  
• Mk1 generator van + Dutch Van
  

PS: What a fantastic thread btw. It should be renamed 'History of Irish Model Railways'

They should be of great interest to NIR and Enterprise fans. Personally prototype 201's never interested me, but I may buy one of the Intercity grey/green liveried Irish rail 201s (i.e. Mk4/CAF livery). Its a nice livery, but the early orange, yellow and black 201s must have been the ugliest loco liveries ever run in Ireland, second only to the silver of the 1950s C class. There is just something boring about the look of 201s compared to the earlier GMs that had such character.

Each on to their own taste. Post 071 class Irish railways and vanilla DMUs hold no interest for this 1960/70s era fan. Mind you I never liked the 'super train' coach livery of the early 70s Mk2's either. It was much improved with the two white bands either side of the black in the IR/IE era, but personally I thought the original black against orange looked awful.

My personal wish list for possible MM future stock:

• 001 Class - Black CIE, B&T CIE Livery (i.e. black roof small orange band under black)
  
• 121 CIE/IR livery
  
• Park Royal mainline coaches (B&T IE/IR and snail green)
  
• Bredin/laminate mainline coaches (B&T CIE and snail green) Stanier lookalikes
  
• Open wagons corrigated panels - non braked
  
• Mk1 generator van + Dutch Van
  

PS: What a fantastic thread btw. It should be renamed 'History of Irish Model Railways'

Noel, you could also try remapping the notching feature to lower function buttons. I understand it's a bit involved with Loksound decoder, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks. I find the iPhone app handles this quite well much better than any cab as you have instant access to any sound function without needing shift keys, and the function buttons are labelled with the sounds. Personally notching is not a sound function that has particularly interested me so far. The automatic sounds out of the MM 071 are good enough for me.

It would make sense to standardise on ones own functions and remap all decoders so that the same buttons perform the same functions on all locos, especially as you recommend with the 10 most common functions on the 1st the buttons.

Thanks guys. I will re-read the NCE documentation to see if I can set some of the FN buttons to 'momentary' mode. I presume this is done with either the controller or cab settings, but with the decoders I may be able reassign sound functions to lower FN numbers to avoid use of the shift key on cabs. Is this correct?

That's why I had mine assigned to "one push" function keys, the notching is much easier to control.

 

I think it stems from the fact that most function keys on DCC controllers are set to "latching", that is once you press them they stay on until pressed again. This is actually a setting on the controller and not the decoder. Some controllers allow you to change the latching settings for function keys, the Bachmann Dynamis is one that I know of.

This is where the Lenz LH100 handset beats the rest. Any of the function keys can be set by the user to be either 'latched' or 'momentary' for any locomotive, so you can have a function button programmed to be latched for one locomotive, and momentary for another. Not that you would want to do that. My locomotives have all had their functions standardised to the same function buttons, regardless of the origin of the sound decoder. It is not difficult to do if you follow the manufacturers instructions for the decoder.

It allows you to hange the engine revs independently of the loco's speed. You can rev the engine right up to simulate trying to get a heavy train started or you can lower the revs to simulate coasting.

I find these two functions (F18 notching up and F19 notching down) very awkward to control. They seem to have a life of their own. You have to turn F18 on and then wait until the delivered revs are attained but then quickly turn it off to stop the upward progression.

Then to turns revs down you have to engage F19 and wait as it steps down until idle is reached. When the loco is in motion it steps down to idle rather than the correct rpm for the current loco speed. It might have been nicer if F18/F19 could be used to step up and down one rpm range per press of the FN key rather than switching on a function that had to work its way through the motions of staged rpm climbing until stopped. It is probably a restriction imposed by NMRA DCC standards for controlling functions that was drawn up long before sound became popular. But as a user I find it too clunky to bother using and find it unrealistic. Or perhaps I have misunderstood how it is meant to be used.

Have a look at the photos in this link. It gives an idea of that a difference the painting makes. And it doesn't take long either!

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/397-Carriage-Train-lighting-fitted

The seating colours in those looks much better. I might try that tone of blue and add the washable white head rest covers that were a feature of CIE coaches when I was a child. Like the coach lighting. How much current per coach do they use?

I have both Loksound and Zimo decoders. I think the sound files on the Zimo chips are better quality recordings, also they are taken from actual Irish locos while the Loksound equivalents use genric engine sounds from US locos that use the same prime mover as Irish locos.

 

Having said that I prefer the Loksound decoders. Zimo's motor control is second to none but Loksounds are much faster to respond to throttle changes and they have a manual notching feature.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a 071 LokSound 4.0 and found the manual notching awkward to use once the loco is moving. Its fine stationary other than the delay waiting to bring the loco back to idle. It's seems to need to complete a cycle and cannot be stepped right down on demand, or am I missing something?

Having said that I find it very impressive and reminiscent on my early memories of CIE GMs.

Sounds a great idea for a layout. CBSCR existence was way off my radar. I know that part of the coast from the water side, and surprised to learn so many of the towns were connected by a railway in the past. It is amazing how many lost treasures of disused railway buildings still exist around the country either as ruins or in new use. Can you imagine the passenger traffic these popular holiday spots might attract nowadays had the railway still been in existance. Best of luck with the project.

I wouldn't assume for a second the sound files and associated config are zero cost.

Hi BK, Well yes somebody had to record them but that's a once off cost, I meant material reproduction cost per decoder is zero. Digitrains charge 1 penny per sound file only because their online store software doesn't allow a price of 0.00. Once the sound file exists, it exists forever, no physical component cost beyond the decoder. Chatting to somebody recently they expressed a preference for the Zimo sound files of Irish GMs rather than the LokSound 4.0 compatible recordings. Does anybody who has had or listened to both have a view on this?