Noel

Its funny what you learn all the time. Nearly gave up on an old X04 Hornby 0-6-0 Panier Tank DCC conversion. Had a TMS T1 decoder installed, but very shaky running, in fact worse than I remember on DC. Put it back on DC but it was running quite well for it's vintage. So did a full decoder reset and now its running as well on DCC as it had on DC. Bizarre. The only settings I remember changing 1st time around after I fitted it were standard CVs 2,5,6,3,4. I guess the BEMF somehow modifies its algorithm based on these CVs and it didn't suit the old X04 motor. Might try another decoder in her to see if that make a difference even though she is well enough ok now for an old chassis.

Any words of wisdom or suggestions for those who have already been in these 'pot holes'?

Just seen the price of them 35.99!,paddy's coaches @45 come on now.

In fairness while the dapol are nice coaches, I don't think they are exact scale replicas of any particular prototype that ran in Ireland, rather approximations, whereas MM Cravens are exact replicas and have features like sprung buffers, so all in all the price of the Dapol coaches seems about right. Btw, I haven't had to pay more that €40 for any MM coaches so far this year from a variety of vendors. Now if I could find a source of nice RTR CIE laminates/Bredins at sensible prices!

Hi Noel,

Your terminus has very complex trackwork with lots of crossovers and double slips etc. if I remember correctly. You may want to post a shot of this for Dhu Varren and consider what the solution is for the whole layout, just in case (say) rewheeling everything solves your problem here only for it to recur when you hit the terminus conversion. Just a thought

HI DC

Thanks. Yes the double slips and cross overs may pose a problem unless adjusted for DCC, but I will do some test runs over it next weekend with various rolling stock. It was wired for DC block sections 19 years ago so I may just have to leave all sections switched on for a DCC test. I was about to start scenery filling this weekend (i.e. foam + plaster) but have put that on hold until any wiring adjustments needed for DCC have been completed (i.e. 1st fix electrical).

Noel

Pic as requested. Track work approaching terminus platforms.

Rebelred i may have one in the spares box.

 

Putting it simply there is no comparison, the later mm 201 is way better excellent running, more power than the lima and more controllable.

The lima ones can be gti'd on dcc but the wheels, mechanism and the detail on the loco will always let it down incidently Gerry Byrne of this parish done a very good article on dcc conversion including sound on the lima 201 in model rail a few years back.

My lima 201 never ran well and is destined to be a shed dweller on my layout.

Thanks RS. I was thinking of buying one 201 class in one of the later liveries just to have one for posterity. My interest in Irish railway stock stopped with the 'orrible fischer price livery of the MkII super trains. We all have our own favourite period probably due to the era we personally travelled most on Irish trains. For me it is the 1960s and 1970s era especially in black livery pulling black and tan laminates, park royals, and non-breaked loose coupled goods wagons, I tolerate the modernistic cravens, but not interested in day glow orange roofed mkIIs and IIIs. It's funny because in real life the eye line viewing mk2/3 was such the the orange roofs didn't seem so stark, but with models overhead view one is looking down at them and all you see is orange plastic!!! Suppose roof weathering would help, but they are also very long.

Noel, didn't you get some good results when you converted older locos to DCC. Maybe older 201s would still be acceptable compared to their newer siblings rather than scrapping them if you already own them. If you're going to purchase, then going with the MMs would probably be far superior

Thanks DC. I'm only at the beginning of a long road to DCC part of my loco collection. Mixed success so far, but that is mainly because the older locos simply don't have enough reliable wheel pickups and when on 12v DC I used to have guagemaster electronic track cleaners wired through the system which had an amazing effect on some of my 'poor runners' due to limited wheel pickups at low speeds crossing points. Effectively I have decided to retire my old Hornby 0-6-0s fleet (mainly GWR panniers) to static display because two axil wheel pickups (i.e. due flat wheeled middle axil) just don't cut it. Whereas the Bachman 060s of the same vintage are far superior with their all wheel sprung pickups and run over points at low speeds quite well. I have added extra wheel pickups to three Hornby 2-6-4 LMS Fowlers on the rear trailing bogies which has made a huge difference to them. The pair of Lima class 33s in CIE livery don't run great at low speed over points, nor does my 1970s class 37 and class 25. These have old style ringfield motors with pickups on only two wheels on opposite sides of each bogie with traction tyres on one side of the power bogie, so would need significant work to re-wheel and add all wheel pickups to get smooth running.

It looks like all the Bachmann steam locos will run well when converted to DCC, but the work especially with the split chassis models will take time. My 20yo Hornby tender drive steam locos should be OK. Enjoying working at a workbench again, but boy my eyes are not the same as when I last did anything like this. I'm going to have to get a pair of 'modelling' glasses (i.e. as well as reading and driving glasses)

If buying locos in the future I will limit the choice to all wheel sprung pickups and drive on a minimum of three axils for steam and all wheel both bogies for diesels (i.e. like MMs and newer Bachmanns I've seen).

Hi Folks

From a running point of view what are the main differences between the original Lima 201s and the later Murphy Model (Bachmann) 201s? Does the Lima have as many wheel power pickups and driving axils as the MM locos?

Thanks

Noel

Thanks for making the effort to take the photos and post. The green livery coaches look very nice. Pity the black and tans are suburban with all those compartment doors instead of mainline with corridor connectors between the coaches. Nice photos btw. How do the coaches run? Plastic or metal wheels?

PS: Like that loco shed.

The short is usually caused by the tread of the wheel bridging the gap between the rails at the frog of the point on insulated points. Are you using live or insulated frog points?

 

Also, are the coaches causing this problem older models? The wheels on Lima and older Hornby MK3's have a very wide thread which bridges the gap easily. The best option is to change the wheelsets, easy enough with Hornby but the Lima wheels have a shorter axle. Replacements can be found but they're not cheap.

Thanks irishthump. The main culprits are metal wheels on Bachmann loose coupled mineral wagons (steel coal wagons), and some old lima BR Mk1s in Blue/Grey 70s livery (possible donors for IR EGVs). By thread do you mean the thickness of the flange, or the depth of the flange or other?

Thanks. Noel

DCC is brilliant. Just wanted to say that. The wife says"are you still talking about that...."

It certainly is. Especially if starting with a blank sheet, you get the chance to wire for DCC 1st time, and most locos nowadays are either DCC ready with sockets and space for decoders, or come with decoders. Converting old loco stock can be challenging, especially 0-6-0 tank engines, split chassis bachmann steam locos, and older locos with limited wheel pickups. All solvable, but needs work. Sound seems ridiculously expensive at the moment. Is this because its in its infancy? A sound decoder doesn't cost much more in core components to mass produce than non sound. Memory is cheap nowadays. I guess in time with competition sound costs will drop and probably become more the norm. For me the two 'killer' advantages of DCC are walk about or wireless cabs and sound. There is no doubt that modern diesel loco models with pick ups and drive on all wheels make the best DCC runners for slow speed that plays so well with sound. Murphy models are superb low speed runners over insulfrog points, negating the need for electro frogs and the additional wiring they require.

I've got DCC running but there is more work to do on the wiring before I can really get going on scenery, and a long road ahead to convert my old steam loco fleet.

Exceptional. Bless your eyesight, that is superb. I'm new on the forum and still catching up on some amazing content like this. What another great find and read. I love how you have captured the atmosphere and essence of that part of the city. Many a train did I get to Galway from Connelly (Amiens Street) as a youngster.

Parcel motel is great, I use it all the time.

Ditto

It's faster, costs less, and all UK websites will ship to the NI address overnight in most cases. No more 'seller does not ship to Ireland' problems. I use it all the time. Parcels are usually delivered to our local Parcel Motel pick up point by 23:00hrs the night after it was shipped from UK websites (i.e. overnight to NI and evening to down here).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-Murphy-Models-MM0141-CIE-B-Class-00-Gauge-Irish-/261600646655?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3ce89d15ff

Is that a bit pricey for a used loco?

Absolutely superb craftsmanship. How did you re-guage the 071 axils and bogies?

Aha, there is a little bit more to DCC track wiring conversion then I had thought. Crossings and double slips!!! Now do I use isolating switches, or electronics (ie reversers)?

I've been testing DCC on the layout for a few weeks now with DCC drops to the middle and upper levels working ok. Haven't gone near the terminus yet which is still DC. However I noticed the crossing linking the dual track incline linking the upper and middle level is causing intermittent shorts as metal coach wheels run over the plastic frog briefly bridging the circuit. Temporary solution has been to isolate the incline using the existing old block section wiring switch, but a more permenant solution may be needed. Any suggestions from experience?

Glad I have left permenant track ballasting until the layout is totally finished and went with foam underlay initially. Makes pulling track up for wiring changes easier.

It is indeed to be diesel hauled - no steam. The tour is aimed at mainstream tourists, rather than at railway enthusiasts. The hot news is that Railtours / RPSI have received clearance for the empty stock to use the Rosslare Strand to Waterford line, instead of having to run via Dublin. No word yet on times, but get the cameras ready, especially all of you in the south east, I'll expect loads of photos on the site.

Hope somebody gets a photo of it crossing the Barrow bridge. I have fond memories of that line and the bridge from a time long since past when I was a young child living in Waterford. Looking across the river from the garden at trains heading for Rosslare and that distant reverberating hum you could hear for ages before rail sound and long before the loco came into view. Waterford was a real 'mecano' industrial port way back then with the big cranes on the quays, silos, bell container port and live cattle docks. Had a very fine model railway shop too in the 60s on the quays.

Superb. Love the colouring and weathering.

The line is still there but its only in use for engineers trains such as weedsprayer and inspection vechicles, some bits were taken but not feom the permanent way.

Perhaps they may be permitted to reposition the empty train if it has no pax and at low speed. Pity they don't get to travel over the Barrow bridge. An awesome piece of railway engineering.

Yes Noel it does run on dc with chip.

 

I got a new error message last night - "check wiring to track. Make sure you are not using a dc power connector"

 

Looks like my problem is simple track wiring. I had soldered the wires to the track. Perhaps it is a poor job. I will try a resolder today.

OK, that sounds positive, the decoder is working. As BosKonay suggests try it on a short piece of track wired directly to the DCC system just to rule out wiring issues. Only tonight I've discovered some of my crossings are causing brief shorts when metal coach wheels run over them. I will have to 'depower/isolate' the crossing rails unless in use.

Hi Noel

I have yet to do this so I'm going to be watching your thread carefully I had no idea what back EMF was either so I literally looked it up yesterday. Apparently it makes a huge difference by monitoring the output from the motor and constantly changing the signal to the loco to keep it running smoothly instead of stops and starts particularly at low speed and even with slightly dirty track. Of course that's no excuse for not cleaning your track but it seems that back EMF is hugely advantageous with older motors and three pole motors which would not be as smooth as five pole or double flywheels.

Well I'm very much still in the learning process myself. Got an old Hornby Pannier tank sorted with a TCS T1-LED decoder.

It is certainly an eye opener, but very satisfying, when you start delving into the inner workings of decoders.

These old Hornby locos with X04 motors have the chassis grounded with the motor, so needed to isolate the second motor bush pickup.

Not much space inside, so fitted the decoder in the coal bunker.

Will make a proper fitting coal cover later.

Just discovered my ancient Hornby BR blue class 37 and its rake of BR Mk2s coaches won't run over Peco code 100 points. I probably haven't run this loco or coaches since I was a child, so will have to replace the coach wheels with smaller depth flanges and machine down the flanges of the diesel bogies. She was a nice runner so a shame to retire her without trying.

Excellent pics & very interesting subjects. Thanks for posting. What camera/lens do you use?

Got a 25yo BR Class 25 diesel done today, and in the middle of converting a 30yo Hornby GWR Pannier tank (TMS 9pin). Put a Digitrax 126D in the old diesel and wasn't satisfied with the running, but then read up a bit more on some of the CVs that assist older motors and wow what a difference it makes with settings like pulse frequency and BEMF - all new to me. A different loco! The more I learn about setting up DCC decoders the more I realise how very much I have to learn! Enjoying fiddling around with locos, soldering iron and wires again after such a long break. A good service and DC test run seem essential before fitting decoders. Four done, more to do! Got three cab bus sockets wired up around the layout with RJ12 crimping tool and some cable.

True I suppose. I'm not having a pop at the RPSI but having had to deal with American Tourists in a previous existence I know how unbelievably picky they can be. If it was down to me I'd have the coaches looking pristine (including a matching livery throughout) from day one. I really hope it becomes popular as it'll be something different for us to see and it gives the RPSI a good income to put into restoration.

I know what you mean. Give them 5 star food, wifi, roll out the red carpet and provide limousine transfers instead of mini buses and they should be happy. Fitting warm lighting into the coaches instead of cold blue led or filament bulbs should add to the ambience, and utterly immaculate loos.

Be interesting to see what stock they run with this. I cant see wealthy yanks being impressed with a rake of RPSI cravens to be honest. ICR?

Great idea for a holiday for those interested in train journey tours. If the Cravens are dressed up a little inside with linen and table ware and carpets it's amazing how a coach can be improved (i.e. like CIE charter trains of the 70s). Mind you at the advertised price a 10 day cruise in the med might look somewhat enticing for a holiday.

Does the loco run on 12v DC with the decoders fitted?

Hi Richrua

I thought 21 pin decoders just plug directly into 141, 181, 071 motherboards. Not sure what you meant about wires being soldered, there shouldn't be any wires to or from a 21pin direct fitting decoder?

Cheers

Noel