Provincial Wagons CIE cattle wagon - 21mm gauge advice needed

[Mol_PMB]

I've got one of Leslie's cattle wagon kits to build, and I need to make it for 21mm gauge. There must be someone on the forum who has done this already, please can you advise me?

Having done a couple of his 20' container flats, these were fairly easy to convert to broad gauge by removing 1mm of resin from the inside of the W-irons. But the cattle wagon W-irons are closer together and thinner, so that's not an option. Also it's not easy to cut the chassis unit down the middle and pack out by 2mm, because then it would be too wide to fit between the cosmetic solebars moulded into the sides. I think it would be difficult to remove 1mm from the outer edges of the chassis block without damaging the W iron and bearing detail.

I'm sure that a few weeks ago, when I bought the kit, I found an online video showing the build of these kits to 21mm, but I now can't find that anywhere.

 

I'm wondering whether the best solution is to just replace the floor with plasticard and use some etched W-irons. If so, is it possible to buy fold-up etched W-irons for 21mm gauge?

Another option might be to use a Parkside or Cambrian 10' wheelbase underframe, packed out 2mm, with the solebar detail removed from the donor underframe so that it fits between the cattle wagon sides. I could probably do that with bits I have in stock here - and might then be tempted to vac-brake it.

 

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Mol

[leslie10646]

Richard McLachlan has done it.

I'll reply fully when I get back from my New Year's Day steam train ride .......

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, leslie10646 said:

Richard McLachlan has done it.

I'll reply fully when I get back from my New Year's Day steam train ride .......

Thanks! Enjoy the train ride.

[Brendan8056]

I have not done any of Leslie's cattle wagon kits but if the chassis is the same general design as the H van and Bulleid opens wagons he used to do then they can be easily built as 21mm. just use a fine razor saw to remove each axlebox/springs from the chassis and use superglue to secure to the solebar. It also make the wagon look wider, which is what us Irish modellers want anyway. You will also need to widen the space for the wheels to go, just us a file on the resin chassis.  

  Attached a couple of pics which may be helpful.  

Enjoy assembling them, Provincial kits are easy to get great results with.

         

[Mol_PMB]

9 minutes ago, Brendan8056 said:

I have not done any of Leslie's cattle wagon kits but if the chassis is the same general design as the H van and Bulleid opens wagons he used to do then they can be easily built as 21mm. just use a fine razor saw to remove each axlebox/springs from the chassis and use superglue to secure to the solebar. It also make the wagon look wider, which is what us Irish modellers want anyway. You will also need to widen the space for the wheels to go, just us a file on the resin chassis.  

  Attached a couple of pics which may be helpful.  

Enjoy assembling them, Provincial kits are easy to get great results with.

Many thanks Brendan, that's good to see how you have approached them. I don't think the cattle wagon underframe is quite the same as the example you have shown, the solebar (moulded as part of the bodyside) is quite thin and it might be tricky to get a strong bond there, considering the forces that W irons get when bending them to fit wheelsets. I think it might be possible to reinforce the joint behind, if I cut away a section of the floor behind each W iron as you have done, but it would have to be quite a small reinforcement to avoid fouling the 21mm gauge wheels. So that might work. I'll do some measuring up.

 

Cheers,

Mol

[Mayner]

SSM once produced etched w irons suitable for 21mm gauge and a separate single lever brake gear fret

W irons could be set up to assemble a rigid or compensated chassis

Best conact Whesty on this forum to check availabiliy.

Another alternaive is to widen OO/EM/P4 w-irons b. soldering in a srip of brass, (I used his mehod on  21mm sock built in the early 90s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, Mayner said:

SSM once produced etched w irons suitable for 21mm gauge and a separate single lever brake gear fret

W irons could be set up to assemble a rigid or compensated chassis

Best conact Whesty on this forum to check availabiliy.

Another alternaive is to widen OO/EM/P4 w-irons b. soldering in a srip of brass, (I used his mehod on  21mm sock built in the early 90s

 

Many thanks John, good thoughts. I'll look into those options. When I built Weshty's GNR brake van kit recently that came with a nice set of etched W irons; not sure if they're available separately but I can find out.

My other thought is to use a Parkside LNER 10' wb underframe with clasp brakes, and model a vac brake fitted wagon.

 

Thanks for all the ideas!

Mol

[Mol_PMB]

I decided to go ahead and build the body while mulling over the chassis options. The sides and ends are stuck together with some internal bracing in the corners. The roof's not fixed yet, but it's starting to look the part:

To help me set it square, I took off the handbrake pivots. I'm definitely warming to the idea of doing it as a vac-braked version, as it seems like many of the later survivors were vac braked.