6 wheel heating vans

[Junctionmad]

Does anyone produce a kit for this model

 

in fact Ive seen some pictures of the 4 wheel version, has anyone some pics of the 6 wheel

 

 

edit I came across this piece on NewIrishLines

 

"...... further information on the four CIE 30’ six-wheel heating /luggage vans no. 3153-6, introduced in 1964. The only references to come to light on these vehicles are in the Doyle and Hirsch booklets on Locomotives & Rolling Stock of CIE and NIR, a photograph in Des Coakham’s coaching stock book and a short note in Modern CIE Coaching Stock (paper by D Kennedy, IRRS Journal no. 37, p. 159), saying that they were intended for larger winter trains. They were fitted with two Spanner boilers each capable of producing 1,000lb of steam per hour, with 500 gallon water tanks and batteries (which no doubt accounted for their weight of 28tons 5cwts), but which were mounted inside the bodies rather than underneath as on the better known four-wheelers to allow space for the centre axleguards. Each van also had two 160 gallon oil tanks, one under each headstock, Timken roller-bearing axleboxes and a width of 10’ 2”, The body profile, large windows and grab rails seem uniform with the contemporary Craven’s stock, and they had roof hatches at either end. They seem to have been withdrawn sometime between 1982 and 1987. I only came across two specimens, one at Inchicore on a visit in 1982, one on a Sunday morning Dun Laoghaire-Heuston boat train in May 1980, when I think CIE was suffering a rolling stock shortage and such a service had to make do with whatever was available."

 

 

thanks

 

Dave

Edited December 1, 2014 by Junctionmad

[Glenderg]

From a thread you started yourself.... and no, there are no kits for them.

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3553-Generator-cars-for-irish-coaching-stock-specifically-HLV?p=55502&viewfull=1#post55502

[Junctionmad]

From a thread you started yourself.... and no, there are no kits for them.

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3553-Generator-cars-for-irish-coaching-stock-specifically-HLV?p=55502&viewfull=1#post55502

 

 

opps thanks

 

 

Interesting

 

this comment was made

 

"The CIE converted GSV's in the 3201 to 3218 series appear to have been used on the Limerick - Rosslare line trains"

 

These are not MKI GSVs, what were they converted from

 

dave

[Glenderg]

Coach Numbers 3201 to 3212 built 1951, converted 1977 and renamed from 1339 to 1353 to 3201 to 3212 series of coaches. 61'6" Standard Brake Heating and Generator Coach

 

John Mayne of this parish has a bit about them here

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3365-CIE-coach-sides-to-fit-Dapol-60-Stanier-coach-kit

 

This is as close I can find for a photo, though it's from the next series in the coaching list. Difference is the single door moves to the next panel on the right, and a slim window inserted.

 

PR 3223 by Paul J Rafferty, on Flickr

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by Glenderg

[Junctionmad]

Thanks.

 

Could I summarise my understanding of this in pseudo chronological order

 

4 wheel stream heating , power for heater supplied by dynamo. I gather most of the apparatus was slung beneath the carraige

 

6 wheel steam heating with power for heater from small generator unit , apparatus mostly inside the body.

 

These were the last Non generating stock ( ie did not provide AC to the carriages )

 

32xx series converted from buffet cars I beleive , contains both generator and steam hesting apparatus

 

( ps what was the purpose of a brake coach in a train braked system by the way )

 

At this time also the " Dutch " hesting vans appeared , I understand ( correctly or not) that these were a mix of hesting only ( lister fir power) and full HGV

 

Mk1 heating a d generator coach

 

Dave

[Glenderg]

One of Des Coackhams witty summations of heating system from the 50's onward.

 

"In the days of steam traction carriage heating was mostly taken for granted by the railway traveller. Come 1st October every year, our termini

were wreathed in low-pressure steam escaping from the hose-connections between carriages. Each compartment had its simple on-off valve something like a small regulator handle, and a ribbed iron heater in the dusty recess under the bench seat on that side. No flow-and-return here; what steam reached the last carriage was dissipated into the atmosphere and the locomotive obligingly provided constant replenishment. When the diesels came, that was a different matter.

 

Wealthier undertakings like British Railways equipped their new motive power with oil-fired boilers to do the same for thousands of carriages requiring steam heat.

 

CIE, with delivery of their Metro-Vick A and C class diesel locomotives imminent, came to the conclusion that this would be unduly complicated. The heating van was the expensive answer. From 1955 Inchicore turned out an armada of 56 four wheelers, 30ft long and built to the 10ft 2in carriage profile. The first 41 were sheeted in unpainted aluminium to match the finish of the diesel locos. They tared 21 tons and used the new design of triangulated underframe, under which were slung tank for water and fuel oil, jostling for position with the accumulator box and dynamo. A Spanner boiler, first installed in the AEC railcars and capable of generating 1000lb of steam per hour, was situated in a small middle compartment with the Guard's van on one side and luggage space plus another water tank on the other.

 

There were gangway connections. Four further heating vans of 1964 were 30ft six-wheelers (shades of past times) and weighed 30 tons. Two Spanner boilers gave double the output of the previous vans. Space was limited , with two fuel tanks underneath, accumulators were inside the van, along with two 500 gallon water tanks. Weighing as much as a bogie coach, the six-wheelers had roller bearing axle-boxes."

 

There is also a photo of 1349 outside Inchicore in 1951 which quotes it as a side corridor third carriage, so not sure about the assumption they were once buffet cars. R

[Junctionmad]

Glenderg, thanks, were the 6 wheeled vans the same basic external arrangement of windows, doors etc, ( i.e. could a 4 wheel van be used) . I understand the 4 wheel van was a Bullied Triangular frame, was that the case for the 6 wheel.

 

AM I right that next up was the 32xx series of BSGVs ,

 

 

thanks

 

Dave

[jhb171achill]

Incidentally, just for info, I might point out that 3223 on the DCDR is in 1950s railcar livery. The darker green, on loco hauled coaches, was done away with about 1955, and would have had the broader light green stripes both above and below the windows; these, plus "flying snails", being edged in gold. For the lining style and unlined snail currently carried, only the lighter green, as seen on the TPO, G611 and C231 was used.

 

For purists, the fonts used on all three G class, both E's, and A39 are correct. That used on C231 is not. The numerals are too thick - see A39 - and the "3" isn't the right shape.

 

NO ill reflection, none at all, on the SUPERB work of ITG and DCDR people in restoring her. I think the lettering was added to her when over in England.

[Glenderg]

For purists, the fonts used on all three G class, both E's, and A39 are correct.

Gill Sans font, unless I'm mistaken.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, Glenderg....

[BSGSV]

In answer to various comments on this thread:

 

C231's numerals are genuine Iarnrod Eireann, not CIE - done by the painters at Inchicore in 1996!

A39's present numbers are a combination of two fonts to give a match to those in old photos of the class.

 

Chronological order for introduction of heating vans:

4-wheel 1955, 6-wheel 1964, Dutch van 1969, BR van 1972, Brake Standard GSV (CIE conversions) 3201 to 3218 1977/8, 3219 to 3224 1980/1.

 

4-and 6-wheel vans were steam heaters only and did not provide electricity for TL purposes. The Dutch vans were modified in the early 1970's to provide TL power, having been steam vans only originally. The BR vans and CIE GSV conversions all produced steam and TL power.

 

The four wheel vans survived until the 1970's. The first batch was withdrawn the year after the introduction of the BR vans and by November 1978 only 11 remained. By that stage, the CIE conversions to BSGSV had presumably taken over their duties.

 

The series 3201 to 3218 comprised two distinct conversions.

3201 to 3212 were Brake Standard GSV, retaining passenger accommodation in compartments which remained from the original carriage.

3213 to 3218 had no passenger accommodation, but a larger luggage area instead.

Both series were converted from the first 61' 6" thirds (later seconds/standards) built by CIE in 1951/2 - 1339 to 1355.

Now, there were 18 GSV's, but only 17 thirds. I am guessing that a composite must have been used for the 18th GSV, but I haven't identified it yet.

 

3219 to 3224 were conversions of bogie vans, themselves converted from Composites originally built 1952/4.

 

Note that all of these GSV's appear to have been converted from carriages that did not have the Bulleid triangulated underframe or Commonwealth bogies.

Edited December 3, 2014 by BSGSV