Galteemore

What made the 2-day tour especially attractive for English visitors in the 70s and 80s was that Ireland offered something virtually unique. Wooden bodied stock operating on what was still a largely steam age railway system - semaphore signals etc etc. It really was worth travelling to. But what the RPSI can offer now, good as it is, no longer stands out so much against what is available to English enthusiasts closer to home. 

Fabulous work David - really high standard of work and lots of scope for operation. Don’t take this the wrong way - I’m glad it didn’t prove an enduring project or we’d never have had Arigna/Belmullet/Northport/Fintonagh/Swillybegs. The Eastern Region’s loss is our gain!! 

Wow what a treat! Love Shannon - live about half an hour from her old stamping ground.

Fab. Love the RHDR. Although in this context of resourcing, I suppose the point is that it was built by two millionaire playboys and nearly shut down completely when they disappeared from the scene! It’s a fabulous set up. Main line in miniature 

Yes, TFL manage it as effectively a store for big items. Museum money, if money there is, comes from the main show in Covent Garden. I did have a look at visitor figures from Bord Failte. A fair comparison of how much interest there is in railways might be to take two sites which are geographically contiguous. One railway related, one not. So here goes: two attractions a 4 minutes walk apart. 

Donegal Castle 63072

Donegal Railway Heritage Centre 7000

Now we can cavil over stats but that’s got to be interesting….the Donegal museum is a very slick and attractive operation but even that struggles. 
 

Most attractive thing in the country is apparently Phoenix Park visitor centre with 1.9m recorded.
 
I also had a look at the UK. Biggest heritage railway is NYMR which pulls in about 350,000 punters a year. Even so, that makes it rank about 150th on list of top UK attractions. 

TFL manage it - the Acton collection of the TFL Museum is housed within a working depot. Access is managed by only opening certain days every year, which obviously allows fairly intensive security to be in place 

4 minutes ago, Auto-Train Original said:

Surprised no commercial Thumpers available to date. Long service life, lots of liveries. Was used by Irish Rail, and I believe they even hauled freight trains?

Would there be serious demand? 

They didn’t haul freight. MPD and 70 class did. All the same, would be popular. 

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Exactly.

 

The RPSI’s original aim was simply to save a railbus……although I suspect the glory days of main line steam have passed their zenith, for about 2 decades they operated wooden bodied excursion trains which offered some of the most interesting and exciting operation in these islands. At a time when all English enthusiasts could hope for was a 25mph trundle, the RPSI could still showcase some impressive performances. 

Excuse my ignorance but why does the 5’3” have to be laid? The 3’ offered experience that most visitors will be more than happy with, that’s perfectly maintainable by an agricultural engineer, and that can accommodate visiting steam relatively easily. 

The railways were not really controlled by the big house Anglo-Irish, who were scarcely interested in anything resembling ‘trade’. Railways tended to be promoted by the local merchants and farmers. And arguably acted as an accelerant for Ireland’s burgeoning Catholic middle class. The founder of the GSWR, Peter Purcell, was a friend of O’Connell and a significant backer of Catholic emancipation.

As a rough heuristic, the more industrialised a country is, the more interest in railways there tends to be. Eg  Germany has a more active preservation scene than France. Quite what the law (if law there be) of cause and effect is I cannot say. In terms of grants, that only really kicked in c1980s. 

45 minutes ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

This might be a controversial point, but I think that there are far, far too many preserved railways in the UK, all competing for the same market share of visitor spend, grants, and donations. I think it is unsustainable. Some sites are quite sad, with lots of items of decaying stock just sitting around, highly unlikely to ever see restoration. 

Why we have no heritage railways in Ireland? I vow to others who are far more knowledgeable than me, but a mix of circumstances, politics, and most importantly money I would suggest lie at the heart of it. But as outlined by @jhb171achill, you are never going to make your millions by running a steam railway! 

It’s not at all controversial. The biggest thing which will affect UK preservation is the demographic timebomb. I am 54 years old - at this age a lot of my parents generation had been able to retire and devote time to other things - such as preserved railways. My generation and those below, the economists tell us, will have to work for longer, depriving the preservation - and other - sectors of the supply of voluntary labour on which they have rested. Only the lines which can operate as commercially self-funding, or have significant private financial backing, will be able to thrive. 

6 minutes ago, Celtic_transport said:

They could go under it but the cost would probably be astronomical, im trying to think of any other lines that could be used

15 minutes ago, Celtic_transport said:

It's a shame though as there are steam and diesel engines preserved that aren't capable of running on the main network, mainly due to their size. Personally i believe that a well located heritage operation would draw in enough visitors, as you see how quickly the rpsi excursions sell out. The Ardee branch would be my own suggestion, its 90% clear as most of it is a nature walk, and provides the possibility of a mainline exchange at the old junction, as well as being on the main dublin belfast line.

The RPSI operations sell out because they offer an experience within easy reach of the capital. You don’t spend half a day getting there, and the experience is long enough to offer substance without boring the kids. The relative scarcity of the trains ensures that they are filled. Having spent some thirty years of my life in very close contact to RPSI finances, I have a lot of sympathy with the branch line concept, but know how much it would soak up in resource. 

4 hours ago, Celtic_transport said:

Hi Everyone,

I was letting my brain wander last night and I've always found it a shame that there are no standard gauge heritage railways in the republic. I understand there was attempts in the past such as west rail on the Loughrea branch but I'm just wondering what former railways do yous think would make plausible heritage railways today? 

Simple answer is ‘none’ I’m afraid. RPSI have found the model, by accident or design, to keep steam going:  run a few trains out of Dublin every year filled to the gunwales with  passengers. Far more commercially viable than keeping a branch line going 365 days. Not enough Dublin families would drag down to any of the old closed lines (Baltinglass, Shillelagh, Athboy etc) to keep them running. 

Downpatrick, which is a relatively small operation by UK standards, represents a truly extraordinary commitment of money and time by those involved. Not sure there is enough capacity in the Irish market to support another operation. 

Quite right @GSR 800. I can recall the old Connolly pre-Dart. What a place it was compared to the basic tramway NIR was at that stage. Still recall seeing mailbags on the platform with a set of 121s ready to head off on the Sligo Mail.   

Interesting shot at Clones - love the crew grabbing a quick fag before heading off! Hadn’t realised that bread vans made it south. 

19 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

What type of loco is pulling them? J15?

Looks like ex DSER K2 class. 461 probably as it has no ash chutes on smokebox 

33 minutes ago, Mayner said:

I guess the significance is Ireland participating (for the first time?) in a joint European Defence operation as opposed to an Overseas deployment in an EU Peacekeeping mission.

The Irish Defence Forces have a long (1958) and proud history of participating in UN and UN supported Peacekeeping Missions in Africa, Europe and the Middle East

https://www.ireland.ie/en/un/newyork/peace-and-security/peacekeeping/#:~:text=Traditional peacekeeping&text=Our largest military deployment currently,positions at UNHQ%2C New York.

Growing up in a Corporation Estate in Dublin in the 60s a neighbours son was wounded in action the Niemba Ambush in the Congo

Yes, John, they have a very distinguished history with the UN - and a sad roll call of losses. This is a strategic step change towards war fighting - green vehicles being deployed and not white…..

13 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Not my content but interesting nevertheless. Irish Defence Forces kit on a Bundeswehr train with a 60 year old Bundeswehr shunter on duty:

 

Very very interesting. IDF deployed on continent in force…..changed days!! Extract from Defence Forces website..,

Lovely pic of Ballintogher Ernie, but I think it’s printed back to front….

26 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

While looking for something else in Ernie's albums, I stumbled across this nice photo showing a pair of Worsley Works laminates - the green ones in this Enterprise set. Thought I'd post it here as inspiration...

 

Fascinating scene. Looks relatively modern until you see what the same photographer took a few yards away that day . I think those two engines could do with swapping tenders! 

More like this. Struck me as a nice way for a veteran to wear their hard earned ribbons

8 minutes ago, Si2020 said:

You should have said hi. Stood for a while watching Northport Quay

 did speak to one of the operators with an impressive medal bracelet ! 

1 minute ago, Mol_PMB said:

Lovely! They bring the footplate to life. The finish on the clothing is very good, touches of gloss on the greasetops and boots are spot-on despite the dirty working environment. The overalls look well cared for but not pristine, as one would expect.

Cheers @Mol_PMB. They’re by a bloke called Andy Stadden who normally does high end military figures, as indeed his father Charles did. Loco crews were not filthy in the main, and took pride in themselves as well as their steed. A bloke called Pete Armstrong did me a crew for the SG. My tank engine crews are fairly generic figures with indifferent paint finishes as it’s so dark you can only see outlines. Tender engines with open cabs need a bit more ! 

Too late for @David Holman’w last show, the PP crew appeared from the sculptor (they are a bespoke crew based on a pic of a crew at Enniskillen. I will need to experiment with placing - I think with the regulator open that far at least one should be looking ahead ! We also now have a goods guard