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irishthump
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Posts posted by irishthump
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The problem with sound is that most modellers have the volume set too bloody loud! I read an American article on DCC sound that suggests modellers use the "5 foot rule", meaning you shouldn't hear the sound of a loco from more than 5 feet away.
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I expect you will really enjoy driving with the powercab. It's quite user friendly and good ergonomics. One piece of advice, the 'momentum' button is unnecessary and recommend you never use it (ie it reprogrammes CVs). I find powercab function ergonomics good for sound locos. It feels good for single handed use. The buttons feel just the right size. It's also a very expandable system.
I prefer it to my smartphone app.
Yeah the momentum button can cause havoc with sound decoders especially Loksounds.
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Well I don't think I could stomach running my trains from a computer screen, so you're preaching to the choir here!
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Replacing the metal clip that connects the gear towers to the motor with wire also helps.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18093[/ATTACH]
Yes. For DCC I also solder feeder wires directly to the side plates on the trucks on both sides. It's best not to rely on the metal chassis for picking up power.
I also switch the older sintered metal wheels for the newer nickel steel type when they're available.
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Warbonnet is right in that a new motor would be best but there is a lot you can do to improve the running of older Athearns.
Firstly take the motor out and clean the commutator (this is the exposed brass piece that you can see turning when the motor is running.) Just apply some power to the motor and polish the commutator with either a very fine file, sandpaper or a glass fibre pen. The commutator should sparkle after cleaning it!
It's a good idea to take out the brushes (careful not to lose the springs) and clean off any dirt or grime. Some modellers also cut about 1/3 of the springs away to lessen the pressure on the commutator and allow the motor to turn easier.
A tiny drop of oil on the motor shaft bearings is also a good idea, but don't over do it or allow any oil to get on the commutator.
That takes care of the motor but most of the noise from an Athearn loco comes from the drive shafts and gears. Take these apart and check for any flash on the plastic that might cause friction when the parts are turning. Pay attention to the brass worm gear on top of each bogie. Take them apart and clean away any grease and grime them re-lubricate and reassemble them.
Lastly, disassemble the bogies and take out all the gear wheels. Check again for flash in and around the centre hole of the gears also between the gear teeth. I take a small triangular file and file between each tooth (a couple of strokes is all that is necessary, don't over do it!). Again clear out any old grease and grime.
The loco can then be reassembled with some lubrication and then ran in for about a hour or so but I prefer to add one more step: Lubricate the gears in the bogies with some graphite powder, reassemble and run the loco at medium speed for about 1/2 hour in each direction, preferably not on your layout! This polishes the gears and reduces the friction even more. You can then lubricate the loco as normal after cleaning away any surplus graphite around the bogies that may have been forced out by running it in.
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but I do it with all my Athearns and it really improves the running.
Also, if you run DCC the choice of decoder is very important with these old locos. I've settled on Lenz Standards which give fantastic slow running and control.
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Dirtbag!
Don't knock it til you try it!
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Good discussion this!
As already said, when choosing a DCC system it's most important to find the one that works best for YOU. It's hard to make a judgement based on the various comparison's made on the web. The person doing the reviewing usually comes to a decision of what's best based on what works for THEM!
I ended up choosing the Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance 2 after doing a lot of reading and I don't regret it, it does everything I need it to do and can be expanded if necessary. Also, it's a lot more intuitive to use than either the NCE Powercab/Procab or the Digitrax systems which seem very unwieldy when it comes to programming. There are loads of videos on Youtube which will show you the programming process for all the various DCC systems. The fact that my 11 year old son was able to run and programme trains with it 5 minutes after unpacking it is a testament to how simple it is to use (the instructions are printed on the back of the throttle!).
The system has 3.5 amps of power which is more than enough to run several sound equipped locos at once (the similar spec Powercab only has 2 amps but that's reflected in the difference in price). The power required to run the layout is not effected by the layout's size. A 1amp dcc system will power a 20ftx40ft layout as well at it will a 2ftx4ft layout as long as the wiring is of adequate size.
As Mayner said after sales service is also important and Gaugemaster are excellent in this regard. I recently had an issue with the throttle knob on the controller, I sent it off to Gaugemaster and it was back to me fixed within 10 days, free of charge. The idea of having to send a faulty NCE or Digitrax system to the States was not something I was keen on.
Again, this is just my own opinion of what works best for myself….
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It would be nice if DCC manufacturers like Lenz, NCE, ESU, MRCC/Guagemaster, etc, produced a low cost black box interface for wireless cab apps (ie had JMRI api over WIFI including rosters for loco naming and sound function labels).
I don't think that will ever happen. Those companies are too heavily invested in their own wireless systems (which are all excellent) to offer a cheap alternative which would allow operators to just use their mobile phone/tablet.
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Such techie 'projects' are really only meant for folk with two short antennas sticking out of the back of their heads.
Seriously though, it's an option for folks interested in tricking around with technology. It is one of the least expensive methods of having a DCC controller driven by one or more wireless cabs assuming folks can get access to old iPhones or an old iPad (ie running WiThrottle app). The advantage is its a black box solution that does not need to be connected to a running PC. A PC might only be used initially to configure and set it up. My WiThrottle setup needs JMRI running on a laptop connected to the NCE controller.
One other point. Touch screen wireless cabs such as WiThrottle have one huge limitation - they lack tactile feel of physical controls or buttons hence cannot be used by feel and require eye contact. A cab with physical controls or buttons can be used single handed without having to look down at a touch screen, and therefore enable the operator to watch the loco leaving the other hand free to do things like operate points, couple/uncouple stock, etc. However an iPhone is a very cost effective wireless cab for walking around a layout and watching trains run from all kinds of vantage points.
Much as I like to muck around with DCC, I don't think I'd be too keen on this myself. I just prefer to have a dedicated DCC controller rather than cobbling one together with various bits and pieces.
And I have to agree with Noel in that I wouldn't fancy controlling my trains from a phone touch screen, I prefer to twist a solid knob!
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The controller and both locos powered down , sometimes it was momentary they'd halt and then start on their way again, once or twice full shutdown and power off.
Forgive me asking all the questions, but I'm curious about this one! What exactly would happen? What do you mean by the loco meeting another local on the main? Did you say the loco was an Athearn?
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When you say "over voltage shutdown" do you mean the decoder or the DCC controller was shutting down?
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Im not being negative - Im being realistic.
As usual....
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From speaking to Gerry about his MIR 121s
there is simply not enough room in the body
for a speaker, mainly because of the gear towers
and height of the motor and twin fly wheels used
on the Athearn SW 1500 chassis that were normally
used on the MIR 121 body's.Obviously it would great
to use the 141 sound chip in the 121 body, and hope
any future MM 121 loco will have room for a speaker.
I am not sure as regards any US switchers that might
have sound on board that might fit the MIR 121.
I know but the Athearns gear towers take up a lot more space because of the connecting tabs on top, and the motor is much bulkier then what was used in the 141's. The same speaker in the 071 will fit into the 141 without the need for any surgery.
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Ok, thanks, IT. You can have automatic coupling/uncoupling of the loco from the Coaches under DCC control?
Yes, I believe they're made by Roco. If you download the Lokpilot and Loksound manuals from the ESU site you can see how they operate. The decoder can be programmed to perform and uncoupling maneuver; the loco backs up a tiny bit to create slack, the couplers unlocks and the loco moves off.
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The speaker used in the 071 would fit the 121 body without any hassle I would think.
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HI Noel. Yes, I understood that. I presume IT is speaking of the LokPilot V4 then. But I didn't understand the difference between a 'function' (and what that can control) versus a 'logic' function (and what that can control) or was that in reference to the 6 functions on a function only decoder?
Sorry, yes I was referring to the Lokpilot V4.
The decoder has 4 function outputs (which are functions that have all the necessary circuitry built into the decoder) it also has 2 more Logic functions which have the ability to control external devices such as DCC controlled couplers. As I said the circuit boards in modern models that have 21pin interfaces allow the logic functions to be used to control lights/leds.
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I think pretty much all decoders now are set up to enable DC running, even the bog standard Hornby ones have that feature.
Also, when they say to check a loco on DC they mean to remove the decoder and run it on a DC track or power supply just to make sure the motor mechanism isn't the cause of any problems.
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LokPilot Fx V4, which is a function only decoder is NOT the same decoder as MM0005
It seems to be the similar to ESU 54615 LokPilot V4 which is retailing in Germany at €26. The LokPilot Fx is a function only decoder without motor drive, but the LokPilot v4 has motor drive. BUT it only has FOUR functions.
The Lokpilot has 6 functions; 4 outputs and 2 logic functions. The logic functions can be used to control leds by using a special adaptor plate. The PCB in the MM071 probably does the same job as the adaptor.
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If M0005 is same decoder as ESU 54621 LokPilot Fx V4.0 then €37 seems high when it is only €17 in Germany
Even if you have to map the functions in program mode €17 v €37 seems a stretch just for pre-programming which will only take you a few mins if it is needed at all.
Haven't had time to see how many of the lights work with the other 4fn decoders (i.e. Lenz/Bachmann).
Yeah it's definitely a Lokpilot. As you say, a hell of a markup!
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Hi Alan ,
you need the Murphy Models DCC decoder M0005 , which is programmed just for the 071/111 only and not any other loco 141 / 201 .
Its pre programmed functions does not follow the NMRA standard F0 - F8 functions but they do all work. The decoder if memory serves correct is a ESU decoder .
Marks Model sells them for €37 .
Irishthump is correct that the 071/111 requires a 6 function decoder if you want to use all the lights.
It's a LokPilot Fx which has 6 functions hence the higher price tag.
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So the functions would be used like this…..?
6 Function decoder
1 - Front marker lights (Cab1 driving) + rear light(s)
2 - Front marker lights (Cab 2 driving) + other set of rear lights
3 - Main beam on/off (Cab1 driving)
4 - Main beam on/off (Cab2 driving)
5 - Cab 1 lights on/off
6 - Cab 2 lights on/off
Motor - present on every decoder ('functions' are additional to this)
Yeah, spot on.
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- F0 is the directional running lights (i.e. uses two function outputs white/red lights)
- F4 the main beam head light (directional)
- F8 the cab lights (directional)
The headlight and cab lights both use 2 functions each, 1 for forward and 1 for reverse in each case.
- F0 is the directional running lights (i.e. uses two function outputs white/red lights)
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You need a 6 function decoder to handle all the lighting functions on an 071.
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Congratulations guys!
NCE powercab
in DCC, Electrics and Electronics
Posted · Edited by irishthump
If you're talking about resetting cv 8 to a value 0, 2 or 8 (some makes of decoder use different values) then this won't wipe the sound project. But what it will do is reset settings like start/top/mid voltage and acceleration/deceleration which are often set to match the engine sounds. If you reset them all to default then the loco sounds could be out of sync.
You can only change/remove the sound file by using the correct programming interface.