Mayner

2 hours ago, David Holman said:

Love the American walk around concept, but all too often there isn't the space this side of the pond. That said, the Rev Edward Beal once wrote that he didn't think 20x20 feet was particularly large as a layout room - his house had several that size! Something to do with living in a rambling Edwardian or Victorian vicarage no doubt.

 He had some interesting ideas for the time though - must dig out a few.

Walk around layouts tend to be more achievable in this part of the World the traditional suburban home was on a ¼acre section with room for a double garage, workshop or railway room, while despite intensification more modern homes tend to have an integral double garage. Our first home had a 24X14 garage I originally planned to build an On30 Colorado Narrow gauge layout with the Orphir Loop  https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/14496as a center piece but quickly downsized to N because it I would have needed twice the space to make it work in O Scale, I never completed the N because of a house move but still have most of the track and stock as it may come in useful if we have to move home or downsize.

The Peninsula featured open top L Girder baseboard with stringers and risers.

Even getting as far as a mock up for the Geared Logging Locomotives

We placed MDF as a temporary road bed to test the stock on the Loop 

The shortie On30 Bachmann stock tended to look unconvincing and dominate the scene, the loco was produced by Broadway Limited a plain but reasonably close to scale model apart from the gauge!  a Sn3 or HOn3 (smaller in scale) layout would have worked well in the available in space but would have cost a fortune compared to Bachmann.

A year later the N Gauge is running on temporary track on the peninsula.

The layout is actually in operation at this stage with a mixture of permanent and temporary track. The main running line was developed into a Dumbell arrangement in a similar manner to the N Scale North Kerry concept with hidden trackage and staging behind the scenic break and elevators which linked up with the track on the peninsula to provide a continuous run, I managed to complete most of the hidden trackage before receiving a job offer that lead to a move to another town and from N to G and later 1:20.3 Scale American narrow gauge.

Most of the baseboard material went into the garage/workshop in our new home and should be adequately seasoned after nearly 15 years!

I did some planning on a North Kerry themed layout several years ago, inspired by an New Irish Lines article on Barnagh and to see if it was feasible to fit in an American style "Walk Around' layout in our recently renovated garage.

The line had the usual 3 passengers and a goods with a Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger working up to the late 30s/early 40s with 1 passenger and goods in CIE days the passenger ceased in 1963 the Listowel-Ballingarne Junction closing completely in November 75, a Tralee- Listowel Goods and beet from Abbeydorney to Tuam via Tralee lingered on for a few years longer.

Although closed to passenger traffic in 63 Passenger trains regularly operated over the line with Tralee Race Specials, GAA, Knock and School excursions and even as a diversionary route for the South Kerry until 1974.

Part of the exercise was to see what could be achieved in N, OO and 21mm gauge with a similar layout theme in an identical space.

My most successful layouts have been in N Gauge mainly because its feasible to build a layout with better operation potential than a OO or larger scale layout in a similar space. P

North Kerry in N Barnagh-Abbeydorney

The layout features a central peninsula with Abbeyfeale and Listowel stations on opposite sides of a central view blocker/backscene.

Staging tracks are on the hidden section between Barnagh Tunnel and the Tralee end of Abbeydorney. 

The line climbed steeply from Newcastle West to the summit at Barnagh then descended gently towards Abbeyfeal and Listowel before undulating to Tralee 

The siding/loop at Barnagh may have been used for crossing or re-combining goods trains that exceeded the load limit on the grade from Newcastle West to Barnagh. I successfully used similar "Surround Staging" on American N gauge layouts in Ireland and in New Zealand before our move to our present home.

The main focus of the layout is goods train operation with Two Crews working the up and down daily goods trains to the crossing point at Listowel or Abbeydorney before changing locos and returning home. Crews of cattle specials would work through to Limerick or Mallow or possibly through to Dublin or Waterford Ports. 

North Kerry in OO Barnagh to Abbeyfeale

I just about fitted in the peninsula for the OO version with Barnagh and Devon Road as intermediate Halts.

Siting Abbeyfeale beside the staging fits in with American practice of placing a main yard/station close to rather than equidistant from staging on a continuous run layout.

Due to the grade West bound goods traffic tended to accumulate at Newcastle West until there was enough traffic to justify sending a loco from Limerick, though its possible that wagons were attached to the rear of the Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger. In WLWR & GSWR days the "Mail Trains" carried van traffic attached at the rear, a possible reason for the unusual double loop arrangement in the goods yards at both Abbeyfeale and Listowel.

Patrickswell North Kerry in 21mm gauge.

I was largely restricted to a single station and staging yard because of the larger minimum radius and the longer points (more prototypical switch and crossing angles) required for 21mm gauge and chose Patrickswell because of its attractive setting simple track layout and appearance of double track with the North Kerry and Croom Lines parallel West of the station.

The North Kerry and the Croom Branch split into two separate single lines at the crossover at the Limerick end of the platform, the lightly drawn crossover and siding were removed at some stage before closure. 

A section of the Croom line was retained as a siding for crossing trains after the 1967 closure of the branch until the cabin was closed in 1983.

Apparently at one stage the Waterford and Limerick attempted to force the GSWR to double the line from Patrickswell to handle Cork Limerick Direct Railway Traffic, the GSWR routed its Dublin-Limerick goods traffic via Charleville Junction and Patrickswell before absorbing the WLWR.

Needless to say nothing has become of these plans, though I am planning to replace the present roller shutter garage door with a wall and conventional doorway at some stage this year, my garage is largely a workshop than a model railway or layout room.

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Plus a few random C & L ones from about 1935. He saw No. 1 "Isobel" still sporting very badly worn-out C & L lined green livery. I think she was the last C & L loco to be painted grey.

 

Interesting contrast between the C&L in GSR days with reasonably clean locos well maintained stock and infrastructure and run down CIE condition.

It looks like Leyden's Coal Screens and loading plant may have been built on the foundations of the Arigna Iron Works dating from the early 1800s with later additions in concrete and corrugated sheet 

Some of the buildings were roofless by the mid-late 50s with the roof sheets but not framing removed from the large concrete building on the right and the 'lean to building beneath the ropeway.

Its coming around to that time of year again days becoming shorter/cooler before leaf fall and winter more inclined to run trains than during the summer. Weather was good wasn't busy and I decided to run some trains Friday afternoon usual pattern a Way Freight or Pick up Goods to Jackson City the principal Town (railway depot/yard) on the line and a Stock Special to Arboles a small country Depot in the middle of no-where.

464 is on shed at Jackson City having worked in on the previous days freight. Almost drought conditions since before Christmas apart from the tail end of a tropical Cyclone in February which brought flooding and brought down trees, some damage to the Jackson County. The 'metal' fill in the Loco Yard has become nicely consolidated trying to avoid gluing, as glued ballast/paving tends to break up after 2-3 years.

348 arrived at Arboles with the Stock Special. Probably should change the name to Arbol as only one of the  trees planted is thriving.

The Caboose was uncoupled from the rear of the train before pushing the Stock Cars into the Siding for loading and re-coupling the caboose.

Smaller stock yards tended to have 1-2 loading chutes and the loco would have to stay on the train and position the cars for loading which could be a slow process.

The DRGW tended to use these small 2-8-0s for stock and freight trains on lightly laid branch lines until abandoned during the late 1940s -mid 1950.

Close up of the Accucraft Kuckle couplers. Which are basically a scaled down version of the prototype, uncoupling is by raising a pin with a lifting bars on the freight car, caboose or loco.

Departing Arboles tender first. 

464 waits to take over from 346 at Jackson City. The stock train is too heavy for the small 2-8-0 on the 4% grade to the staging in the Garage

464 awaits to depart with the Stock Train as 463 arrives with a Way Freight (West) and 348 makes up 463s train (East) for departure.

Nearly Tea Time! 463 has drawn her train into the clear to allow 464 to depart with the Stock Special.

The next move was for 463 to either reverse or draw forward clear of the yard to allow 348 to position her cars on the Departure Road (at left of 464). Unfortunately rain was forecast, it was getting dark,  and we had to abandon the session for another day!

463 pushed her train back to the staging, 464 returned picked up the cars that 348 had positioned and departed (in the dark) with 348 banking the train.

Natural Weathering. I tend to allow dust to accumulate of freight car roofs as its very time consuming to remove. The Stock Train was caught in a sudden shower yesterday and I allowed to dry naturally with a reasonable effect. 348 was dried in the traditional manner with an oily rag!

9 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Were they concrete bases with a wooden frame?

Were they plastered internally?

Suspended timber floor or concrete slab depending on era built.

New Ross had a timber floor, possibly brick or concrete foundations/rising walls.

Corrugated or weather board on timber framing.

Interiors lined with tongued and grooved boarding or possibly wallpaper on hessian on rough cut boards.

Timber frame with corrugated iron roofing and either timber weatherboard or corrugated iron cladding was and to a degree still is the standard for of construction in New Zealand, its an extremely resilient form of construction with many building from the 19th and early 20th Century still in use to this day, our house is just under 100 years old corrugated iron roof, original timber wall cladding, joinery and framing all hardwood with some modern upgrading.

It might be worth contacting IE Chief Civil Engineers Office who may have drawings of some of the buildings  signal cabins at stations on the Wexford Line were upgraded during the 1990s.

Its possible Thompsons or Carlow Museum may have information on corrugated iron buildings supplied to railways, Thompson's have been in business since the early 1900, Keenan's of Bagnallstown was another major Co Carlow based structural steelwork/corrugated building supplier.

15 hours ago, StevieB said:

I think it was the same over there. Carry out some kind of ‘improvement’ as a precursor to closure. Let’s not forget that both countries had doctors, in the non-medical sense, running their railways!

Stephen

The West Cork and West Clare and other Tod Andrews closures appears to have been based on projections that CIE would loose less money, or possibly make a profit (in terms of operating and capital costs) if the passenger and goods traffic was transferred from rail to CIE road passenger and freight services.

The 'improvements' tended to be more Bureaucracy and Incompetence with the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing rather than cooking the books. The Policy Makers that decided on closure or a change in operating policy failing to inform Way and Works or Mechanical Engineering of a decision.

Good examples were CIE ordering the G611 Class and the Western Region ordering the Class 14 "Teddy Bear" locomotives for Branch Line & Trip Working when they were largely redundant with Branch Line closures and changes in freight operation in both Ireland and the UK.

In a lot of cases the work or project was already budgeted for a particular project and could not be used for a more relevant alternate project, very much a case spend it or loose it and keep staff employed until they could be re-deployed, retired or became eligible for redundancy. Sometimes it was cheaper to keep someone on the books (doing nothing) until they retired if they were unwilling to voluntary transfer to another role than offer and pay redundancy, during the 1980s my father (a fitter) was refused redundancy because of his long service while younger staff and some of his apprentices were offered and took redundancy.

I ran into the same problem as a Head of Department on a UK Heritage railway although less than a mile long we had the same management structures and siloed mentality as British Rail.

Some "improvements" such as the 'relaying' of parts of the Burma Road, Youghal Branch and other lines was actually the P.W. Department replacing good quality rail and track panels with worn material before closure for use on other lines, for many years CIEs track maintenance on secondary lines was based on patching using material cascaded from the mainlines and recovered from branches/closed lines.

The Mechanical Engineers Departments tend to do the same using stocked locos and rolling stock as a source of spare parts before they are officially withdrawn and scrapped, hence long lines of stopped 001s at Inchacore, redundant 4w wagons at North Wall and long lines of stopped Class 31 Locos at Totton before they were actually withdrawn

15 hours ago, gm171 kk said:

I will possibly have to sell my new layout soon due to space constraints and I'm looking for alternatives. 

Kato track seems like a good option to keep trains running while not having space for a more permanent layout. 

What are people's experiences with Kato track for Irish models? Are there any pros and cons you've come across? 

 

I haven't any personal experience with Kato track, the photo looks spot on for American track and looks a lot more realistic than Peco Code 80 or 55 N gauge track. 

With the realistic track and standard and details of 3251 I almost want to resume where I left off my American N Scale modelling buy some Kato track and keep my stock of Peco for staging and hidden track

I know of one large layout in Auckland which uses Kato track, the owner is the former owner of a model shop and importer of American and Japanese railway models prefers Kato to other system

59 minutes ago, KMCE said:

So.....

Part of what has been going on in the background was the development of Etches for some locomotives - DWWR / DSER, as to be exptected, in this case the 423 Class 2-4-0T (being the most numerous on the DSER line) and its extended version the 428 Class 2-4-2T.

Etches arrived back from the excellent people at PPD Scotland, and I decided to build the 423 Class first to ensure the etches are correct.  The intention here is to develop kits of both locomotives for both OO and 21mm Gauges.  The etches are 0.45 Nickle Silver for the chassis work and 0.3mm Brass for the bodywork.  I intent to include 3D printed elements for chimney, smokebox front, dome, safety valves, tank fillers and buffers - all of which have been developed and printed ready for the model.

 

Nothing for it but to get stuck in.

Frames were removed from the fret & in this case material removed to allow the 21mm compensated version to be built.

The material to be cut out for the hornblocks is substantial enough to allow for a strong fixed chassis version.

 

Frame spacers next and are include three: front with angled plate to take faux cylinder heads, centre spacer with fold down sides to simulate firebox and plain rear.  The centre space for the 21mm version has been designed to take the RC switch / charging point alluded to in the posts above.

Matching spacers (less the RC Switch cutout) are provided to build the chassis to OO gauge.

 

The 21mm compensated version needs hornblocks and compensation beam.  Hornblocks are those from High Level Kits, whilst the compensation beam is included in the etch and is doubled up, sweating the two parts together.

Installing hornblocks for compensation between front bogie and leading driver is more difficult that just using the normal axle setup box for coupled axles - the front axle being centered lower than the main drivers.  I created a jig which centres on the rear fixed axle and lines up using the brake hangar holes in the chassis.  This allowed setting for both hornblocks at the correct height & true.

 

All of this bringing us to a nice rolling chassis.

Set up at the moment is on a spare set of EM drivers - correct P4 wheels will be added once all the work & painting is complete.

 

So far, so good.  Compensation beam needed only a very minor tweak to get the chassis sitting level.  The only minor issue at this stage is the hole in the brake shoe is slightly oversized, so lining up with the hangar was by eye rather that using 0.5mm rod as originally intended.

 

On to the body next.....

Ken

Fair play! especially producing kits for an unsung railway like the DWWR/DSER. 

I have used PPD for over 10 years and they consistently turned out high quality work and resolve problems when they occur.

I have basically ceased design and manufacture of etched kits because of the lack of demand and I am focusing on models for my own personal use.

Have you looked at a jewelry or precious metal supplier producing lost wax castings direct from a 3D model as opposed to resin casting?

The lost wax castings for my 52 Class kit were produce from 3D printed masters as I did not realise that my supplier could produce the wax moulds by 3D printing https://morrisandwatson.com/3d-printing/  Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to form or 'loft' a 3D flare or skirt for a dome or chimney for the 52 Class

I also use lost wax castings, when its necessary to produce duplicate or multiple patterns of producing whitemetal or pewter castings of components like springs or axleboxes.

 Lost wax casting worked out quite reasonable in cost, its possible that businesses in the Ireland and the UK are offering similar services to Morris and Watson.

7 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

Still waiting for an answer, 1 or 2 drivers. That’s all I asked !

 1 Driver in one cab. 

Unlike BR CIE insisted on single manning with the new diesel locos and refused to allow a Fireman to ride on the loco with the driver or pay another driver to sit in the second cab.

In a broader context 2 or more people regularly ran rode in the cabs of CIE and IE locos, so two or more figures in the cab of an A Class loco is prototypical.

1. A "Snatcher Man" to operate the mechanical staff exchange apparatus on trains that ran non-stop through crossing places on single tracked lines like Dublin-Mullingar-Athlone, Rosslare Harbour to Waterford-Mallow and Limerick up to the late 1980s

2. Goods Guards on fully fitted Liner Trains that ran without goods brake vans until guards were eliminated in the mid 1990s. Drivers sometimes insisted that the Guard rode in the second cab because of poor personal hygiene or other reasons.

3. Inspectors, Trainee Drivers, Mechanical Engineering staff, Off duty staff travelling home at end of shift, Enthusiasts ( 3 people per cab max?).

23 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Just to be clear, John, NOT all the same mould - that's been renewed from the original master several times.

 

I originally planned (2010)to produce the Tin Vans JMD using a cast resin body (from a 3D printed master) before going down the etched kit route. 

One of the main draw backs was high production costs due to the short mould life (<20 repeats per mould?) and labour intensive nature of the casting and clean up process.

12 years later I quickly found out that resin casting was not an option for producing the CIE 20T Goods Brake van.

The local (New Zealand) companies that once carried out resin casting have either gone out of business or shifted to resin printing.

7 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

I'm just sending another eight double beet kits to a customer in Co Cork - that means I have sold THREE HUNDRED of the flat which they sit on  - not bad for a kit?  That's 216 beets and 84 sold as pure 20ft flats for containers (which I also sell!).

 

Leslie

You made me reach for my copies of Locomotive & Rolling Stock of CIE and NIR.

It looks like like you have sold more 54 Double Beets and 177 less 20' Skeletal Flats than CIE actually built.

300 Flats is not bad by any standards for a resin casting.

I still have to get round to building my 'stash' of PW wagons, but haven't been able to find the time since I gave up my 'day job' several years ago.

Interesting seeing Collrolled Steel Framing being used in Ireland, though I 'built' the Four Storey 150 Bed Hotel with the stuff in Dublin during the mid 90s and its still standing. 

Looks like an excellent layout room high standard of dimensional stability with insulated wall and roof panels.

Rolled steel framing which is becoming popular in this part of the world because of its light weight and dimensional stability compared to timber framing. The only odd thing to my mind was the traditional block rising walls and ground bearing floor slab, the majority of lightweight buildings in this part of the world are built on an insulated raft slab on a compacted sand pad. 

7 hours ago, Angus said:

Hi Colin, 

I can't remember who said it, but it is a truism that  on a good model you should be able to tell the period and the operating company without any rolling stock present.

It is easy to get this wrong, for example in my enthusiasm above I've noted the view of the Cahirciveen shed area stating I was just going to swap the corrugated shed for a stone MGWR one.

The problem is that the majority of MGWR termini that had engine facilities had two road sheds. The exception being Ballaghaderreen and Kingscourt. The later looks to house two engines in a long single road shed rather use two roads; so if I want to create an MGWR atmosphere I should use a two road shed.

As there is also a lovely drawing of the attractive corrugated station building at Cahirciveen in the Valcencia Harbour book. It is tempting to use that, however the MGWR seems to have been quite generous in bestowing stone station structures onto its branch lines. So an alternative will be needed.

This has led me to ponder the buildings. For the small station I am thinking of using SLNCR structures for the station building and goods shed, partly because I've got a part built good shed for Dromahair and there is card kit that can be photo copied down for Florencecourt. For the larger I need to source some MGWR structures. I notice the is an MGWR architectural drawing set available from the IRRS. Does anyone know the contents? It is quite steep at £70 for the set (although does contain 80 drawings).

I've sourced some etches for the turntable deck based on a 50' Cowans Sheldon unit as installed at Carstairs in Scotland. It is bit bigger than I wanted but scale turntables are hard to come by in 2mm scale, and far better than the commercial alternative (the smallest I can find at 150mm would be a 75' unit!).

I'll need to build this first as without a reliable turntable the whole plan doesn't work. The engine release on the run round loop needs the turntable operational, so definitely not a nice to have!

The MGWR built few branch lines (Edenderry, Clara, Killeshandara) after it completed its trunk routes from Dublin to Galway and Sligo.

The majority of MGWR Branch and secondary Main Lines were promoted and built by locally owned companies and worked by the Midland.

The "worked" lines were built to MGWR standards in terms of civil engineering, buildings and structures, trackwork and signalling with stone station buildings, standard MGWR 2 road engine sheds and coal stages rather than the more economic construction favored by other companies.

Interestingly Killeshandra had a small single road shed with integral water tower at the rear of the building, like a reversed version of Tetbury but with the water tower on one side of the roof.

I think a Strandhill branch was more likely to be based by a loco based at Sligo, even the Midland would have been pushing it to demand a 2  road loco shed for a station only 5 miles from a major Loco Depot, but a shed for a single loco might have been justified in the days when locomotive crews were allocated to specific locos which more or less became part of the family

Its likely a Sligo-Strandhill railway would have been financed and built by local interests in the 1870s and later taken over by the Midland in a similar manner to the Ballaghadereen Branch when the Strandhill company ran out of money/went bankrupt.

There would have better chance of success for a Strandhill Railway from the 1880s onwards Baronial Guarantees on capital and potential Government Grants made it easier to raise capital to finance and build a railway.

The presence of the SLNCR, WLWR/SLNCR in Sligo would have made negotiating a favorable operating agreement a lot easier, the MGWR was likely to be less insistent on imposing its standards with actual competition in the market.

Modest cut stone buildings such as Ballaghadereen or Killeshandra would fit in for a branch line worked by the Midland before the arrival of the SLNCR or WLWR on the scene who would have been less fussed about station architecture and large loco depots. Westport Quay is a bit of an oddball in terms of MGWR terminal stations with a very humble plastered or possibly whitewashed station building and no goods shed. The Great Northern and Western (Athlone-Westport Quay and Ballina) station buildings became increasingly spartan as the line progressed Westwards, plain rectangular single storey cut stone buildings (originally without a platform canopy) at all stations from Castlerea to Westport Quay and Ballina in place of the ornate Gothic station buildings at Roscommon, Donamon and Ballymoe

The WLWR developed its own distinct style for smaller stations on the Limerick Sligo line with 'Cottage Style" station building with stones quoins and plastered walls, stone goods sheds water towers and other structures. Tubbercurry appears to have had a single road loco shed in WLWR days but appears to have been demolished long before closure.

On the other hand the GSWR and SLNCR would have no qualms with steep grades or corrugated iron buildings, so Cahirciveen could be literally lifted from Cahirciveen to County Sligo!

1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

Found in the same old shoebox as the 1973 tube driving coach.  Scratch built body on a metal Triang wagon chassis.

I think a friend and I bought a few of these chassis for peanuts at Beatties in Bristol Broadmead in 1985.

Cheers

Darius

Possibly an ERG (Bournemouth) wagon. Clear Plastic (acetate?) body on die-cast chassis  https://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/erg/index.html

ERG was a component an kit supplier/manufacturer,  introducing plastic Rex kits in the 50s/60s,  the owner appears to have retired/gone out of business in the early 1970s, may have sold the stock to Beatties and other retailers.

The model shop in Monk Place Phibsboro stocked the kits, I remember looking at an open wagon with a clear plastic body and a metal chassis but it was beyond my budget at the time.

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

I'm afraid not. Was comparing my Irish  road atlas with my railway one (the Hajducki version) and wondering about towns like Belmullet and Louisburgh. Like as not, their populations would have been well below 5000 in 1900, though but for the famine and subsequent migration, it might have been a different picture.

 Comparing maps, it also throws up the question of why certain lines stopped where they did (money and/or geography no doubt). Ardara in particular, for having gone to the trouble of building the line to Glenties, why stop there instead of continuing on the the coast, just a few miles further on?

 

A lot was tied up with money & politics in particular the Irish Question or "killing Home Rule with kindness". The Balfour Government spent a lot of money in the 1890s building Light Railways and other Public Works in poorer areas to keep the Liberals and Irish Parliamentary Party out of Government.

The Glenties and Killybegs Branches appear to have been locally promoted lines largely financed by Government Grants with £1000 in Baronial Guaranteed capital. There appear to have been proposals to extend the Glenties branch line to Ardara into the 1920s it would have been difficult to raise the capital locally or justify further Government Grants particularly under a Liberal Government that had secured Irish Parliamentary Party support.

The WLWR line North of Tuam and GSWR "Kerry Branches" are further examples of railways funded by Government Grants

The Clifden and Burtonport Lines were definite Government schemes took as direct a route as possible through remote country to their destination and avoided coastal populated areas the actual "Congested Districts" the railways were intended to support.

In more prosperous inland counties railways were mainly financed by local capital sometimes with a Baronial Guarantee the 19th Century equivalent of a modern private public partnership where the ratepayers sometimes  guaranteed a 5% dividend on capital and were responsible for making up operational losses, which lead to a lot of ratepayer resentment towards companies like the Cavan & Leitrim where extensions to Rooskey and the Arigna mines were blocked by ratepayer opposition.

Another factor was that the railways were territorial, the GNR(I) Carrickmacross Branch blocked the MGWR extending northbound from Kingscourt to Armagh and potentially Cookstown and  over the BNCR to Portrush. The SLNCR existed as an independent railway (buffer state?) to allow the GNR to compete with the MGWR/GSR/CIE for traffic from Sligo and the West of Ireland without invading each others territory, one of the explanations for the gap in the rail system between Sligo & Bundoran.

In a lot of places the railways were content for drovers and carters to deliver to a railhead rather than finance or build a branch line, the MGWR had a depot and carter in Loughrea for many years before the local gentry raised the capital to build the Loughrea and Attymon Light Railway.

There were several narrow gauge Roadside Tramway and Light Railway schemes linking the villages and towns across the plains of North Galway and Central Roscommon to the Broad Gauge at Dromad, Roscommon and Woodlawn stations.

The Roscommon Central Light Railway (Dromad-Strokestown-Roscommon with a branch from Strokestown to Carrick on Shannon------The Longford and Strokestown Tramway-----The Roscommon and Mount Bellew Steam Tramway-----The Woodlawn, Mount Bellew and Mount Talbot Tramway.

The Roscommon Central promoters appear to have been serious the Light Railway application to the Privy Council failing on a technicality despite having appointed a contractor, Grand Jury support for a Baronial Guarantee.

Dromad-Roscommon-Mountbellew was incorporated in various Ulster  and Connaght Light Railway schemes for a continuous 3' gauge railway from Newry to Galway city and Connemara.

I think the Class 66 EMD Model JT42CUR  introduced 1998 have a later (more reliable) version of the EMD 710 engine and more significantly are heavier with  'self steering bogies' https://writebetter.io/examples/radial+self-steering+bogies/ .

Self Steering Bogies were introduced during the mid late 1990s on American high horsepower freight locos such as the EMD SD70Mac and EG Dash 9-44CW to reduce wear and adhesion on curves a single SD70 or Dash 9-44 was expected to do the work of 1-2 earlier 6 axle locos such as SD40-2.

The 201s are EMD Model JT42 HCW     JT---Twin cab       42---EMD loco type  H--head end power  C- 6 axle version   W  Standard to 5'6" gauge

The CUR suffix on the Class 66 JT42CUR  likely to be C-6 axle version     U  meter to 5'6" gauge bogies R---Radial bogie?

Its an interesting topic, while many of Rice's schemes were fictitious or freelance in concept, the majority of the responses have looked to the prototype for examples. 

A lot depends of what you want out of a layout and the available space, its sometimes its easier to fit a OO gauge double tracked main layout into a smaller space than a finescale single tracked terminus.

One concept could be a compact Cyril Freezer style double tracked layout with two stations (one a through terminus of Junction) and short 3-4 coach trains based on Irish Main Line practice, each line with its distinct architectural style and character

Pre-DART Dublin suburban with a simplified model of Dunlaoire, Seapoint or Blackrock or pre-CTC Cork Line with its distinct sky signals and double pole runs Hazlehatch, or Sallins as center of interest and Straffan, the Midland with the Royal Canal on the climb from North Wall to Clonsilla, Cork-Cobh with its riverside running, wet cuttings bridges and small halts had more in common with a rustic branch line than a busy suburban.

The might of been are almost countless from the early Railway Mania schemes to build Trunk Lines from Dublin to Valencia, Dublin to Enniskillen, rival Dublin-Belfast schemes, to the last days of Empire with the "All Red Route" from the United Kingdom to Canada and perhaps overland to the East via Belmullet to the more humble such as the Mullingar and Ballymahon Tramway, plans to revive and extend the Parsonstown and Portumna to Loughrea and an extension of the Dublin and Blessington to Holywood and across the Wicklow Gap to Glendalough and Rathdrum.

On 9/3/2022 at 10:47 AM, Lambeg man said:

Help Request
 

Would any member of this site be able to advise if ANY of the ex-GNR carriages that came into the ownership of the RPSI in the 1970s, had ‘steel’ body panelling? If so, was there anything underneath the steel panelling such as ‘Masonite’ (a form of compressed wood perhaps similar to modern MDF) panels? Or indeed did some of the ex-GNR carriages still have purely ‘Masonite’ body panels? The GNR used steel panels from 1935 until 1938. By 1939, as an economy measure, new carriages were built with ‘Masonite’ body panelling.
 

The reason behind the question is that the UTA for their part did a fair bit of fiddling around with some ex-GNR coaches, such as fitting curved window frame corners in place of the GNR practice of squared window corners, removing wooden panelling, etc. I am therefore exploring the possibility they may have re-panelled some carriages.
 

Any information would be gratefully received via my e-mail address - many thanks in anticipation of your assistance.
Steve Rafferty

stephenrafferty@hotmail.co.uk

Masonite is a US trade name for Tempered Hardboard, which would have fitted in with wartime & GNR(I) economy measures. Michael Baker described the relatively poor condition of the bodywork on recently withdrawn ex-GNR coaches in an early 1970s  magazine article or book on CIE. The GNR(I) appears to have used softwood framing in combination with hardboard paneling during and possibly following the War which would have lead to the relatively short life of modern GNR coaching stock.

Its possible the GSR re-paneled a pair of C&L Narrow Gauge coaches with a similar material in the late 1930s,  the re-paneled bodies were not fit for the Leitrim weather the material was described as compressed cardboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonite. 

I have been using battery RC on the garden railway for several years, the main advantage is reliability in operation no problems with poor power conductivity outdoors and eliminating the need for wiring.

The main issues issue are the "Cottage Industry" nature of railway battery RC manufacture since Aristocraft ceased manufacture in 2013 and relatively short battery life.

Aristocraft manufactured the "Crest" battery RC system which was basically the "standard" with a range of transmitters, receivers, batteries and switchgear for American outline battery RC.

The 'cottage industry" manufacturers are basically at the mercy of the component manufacturers, which can be challenging if you are trying to standardise on transmitter (Throttle/Hand Held controller) and receivers. (decoders in DCC Terms).

I began using RCS an Australian https://www.rcs-rc.com/ manufacture about 7 years ago and currently have 8 battery powered RC locos with 6 different receiver types and 5 Transmitters of 4 different types as earlier transmitter and receivers became obsolete and were no longer available.

I use twin 7.2V 1600mh/a NiMH racing car battery packs in locos which were generally good for 1 hour running when fully charged, but have had to replace battery packs after 2-3 years as they batterys struggle to hold a charge or get a train home.

I am likely to stick with Analog track power for my kit and scratch built 4mm Irish locos when they are not on the workbench or in the display case

The most striking things is the introduction of the Irish Pullman cars so soon after the end of the Civil War and formation of the GSR and the involvement of the Free State Government (Tourism), Pullman Company, Railways and Shipping companies to promote tourism in the newly established Irish Free State.

Its possible that MGWR and GSWR senior management may have been involved in the project in the lead up to the Amalgamation and 1924 establishment of the GSR 

With the GSR Chairman and several Senior Officers (financial and operating) were drawn from the MGWR the Pullman Cars almost appear to be a Midland rather than a GSWR initiative which fitted in with the Midland's almost Patrician approach with a high standard of 1st Class Passenger accommodation on trains like the Galway Mails and rather spartan 3rd Class accommodation.

The GSWR and the GSR also operated a "Tourist Train" made up of modern (GSWR) side corridor bogies coaches hauled by highly polished 400 Class 4-6-0s.

While "modern" GSWR/early GSR coaches with low running boards and individual compartment doors look antiquated compared to flush sided Stanier and Bredin coaches, they are not dissimilar to contemporary Midland and LMS coaches which were considered pretty much state of the art during the early 1920s.

16 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Sad but wonderful pics. With that red roof, the last photo almost has a north German air about it.

The big skyscape and the neat intensively worked farms definitely has a Dutch, north German look to it.

I was struck by the intense nature of dairy farming and prosperity along the fertile coastal strip between Kilkee and Lahinch in contrast to North Clare when I visited Ireland in 2018 not as I remembered it as a teenager on holidays in the 70s.

Though it was good to see Moyasta other remains of a railway that had become barely relevant by the 1950s

I always liked Cahirciveen mainly because of its compact nature and scenic location with a lot of trackwork crammed in between the level crossing and the high ground at the Valencia end of the station. I am surprised that Jim Harrison or Iain Rice did not come up with a West Country, Welsh, Scottish version's.

Cahirciveen certainly had elements of Tor Point or Craig about it with the station hemmed in between the sea wall with the town as a scenic background, the line to Valencia Harbour could be treated as staging or a fictitious goods only "Harbour Branch".

I suppose I could do a Rice and use Cahirciveen as the inspiration for an EM or P4 light railway station and harbour branch some place in South West Scotland, the Llýn Peninsula or remote part of the East Anglian coast.  

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I spent a year in Scotland about 30 years ago and spent most of my spare time exploring the country and railway system including the West Highland, including travelling from Glasgow to Forth William and Mallaig by rail and driving from Stirling.

Its quite an experience making the journey at this time of year, I once took a day trip from Stirling to Crianlarich out by Callander and home via Lough Tay and Perth to "see the snow" people were out skiing in the valley below Lough Tay, I managed to home safely just before a sudden thaw that disrupted road and rail communication in the Central Lowlands knocking out the Stirling-Perth Main Line for the best part of 

When I lived in London some work colleagues would take the "Sleeper" on a Friday evening to Rannoch Station for a weekend in the great outdoors before returning to work refreshed on a Monday morning

Its nice to see that the Bridge of Orchy station and the trains appear to be relatively unchanged from 1993!

The "Disreputable Wagon" is probably an ex GSWR or ex GNR replacement for recently withdrawn ex MGWR Meat Vans used for 'perishable" traffic, its possible the fitted "Green H Vans" replaced pre-amalgamation stock for this traffic.

There is a 1964 H C Casserley photo of B149 leading the UP Night Mail through Ballysodare the train is made up of a Black & Tan 4w Heating and Luggage Van, what appears to be an ex-GSWR Bogie Coach and Bogie Mail Van in late 1950s green followed by three fitted H Vans (no goods brake).

Ex-MGWR Meat Vans appear to have been use possibly for fish traffic from Sligo and Ballina into the mid/late 1950s

655 is probably acting as station pilot making up or breaking down a Mail Train.

There are similar 1956 (F W Shuttleworth) photos of 659 shunting the Sligo Mail which included a MGWR 6w Mail Van & Meat Van dating from the 1880s sandwiched between a pair of recently introduced Bullied 4w Passenger Vans.

The Shuttleworth photos inspired me to produce kits of CIE & MGWR non-passenger stock.