Mayner

I thought it would be useful to add a re-gauge of the MM Baby GM and and a comparative space required for pointwork in OO and 21mm gauge.

My 21mm gauge work is based on using EM profile wheels and running clearances (back to back 19.3mm) which is a good compromise between S4 and OO wheel profile and running in terms of a trade off between appearance and ease of use.

Murphy Models B141 with OO/EM profile wheelsets with 19.3mm back to back gauge. Wheels fit within the MM bogie sideframes without modification.

The wheels and 21mm axles were supplied as a custom order by Ultrascale.

B141 re-wheeled with original Bachmann wheels and new axles. It is necessary to reduce the thickness of the Bogie Sideframes by grinding/filing to re-gauge the model to 21mm using the original wheels to 21mm gauge with a 19.3mm b-b.

Brendan of this parish gets around this problem by setting the back to back to 19mm and presumably using OO gauge running clearances.

I body mounted the Kadee's on my baby GMs by removing the coupler pockets from the bogies and gluing to the pilot infill panels supplied with the MM models.

A direct comparison between a 21mm and OO gauge crossover. The A switches and No 6 crossing angle is pretty much minimum the minimum for main line locos and stock in sidings and secondary trackage when working to EM or S4 standards.

The 21mm gauge crossover is 500mm long the OO Gauge using Peco small radius points 370mm

The OO gauge Timesaver layout and traverser fiddle yard occupies a space 2300mm long, I was unable to fit a similar layout with a fiddleyard and run round loop in the same space in 21mm

The original 2012 dock layout.  The inspiration was the North Wall Granaries area with the Dock lines straight a small marshalling yard for dock traffic on the left with the main running lines curving around past industrial buildings to another yard depot.

The main problems were that I could not get the double slips to work and that I did not allow enough clearance between the yard tracks on the left and the running lines.

Visually the abrupt transition from straight to curved track did not work, operation was likely to become tedious as I could not stage trains off line without a fiddle yard.

Started with one of these as a toddler a gift from a Grand Uncle and my mother talking about her late father a Broadstone loco driver

The engine went to a younger cousin when I got beyond the toddling stage.

My first 'train set' was tinplate possibly made in Japan or Hong Kong with an American steam loco (single battery in boiler), tender, freight car and caboose and circle of track, the second set I got a couple of years later was more modern a Tinplate American Streamliner a 3 car set with two streamlined cab units and an intermediate coach all 4w of course! As a child I liked to take things apart and the tinplate sets did not last very long a real pity, the next 'set" was the first Lego train that was pretty indestructable, I converted the loco from a Tank to a Tender engine by mounting the battery box on a set of road wheels with the tyres removed.

My introduction to Railway Modelling was a Triang-Hornby 'South African Goods" set when I got to choose my own Christmas present for the first time when I was 12. "The South African Goods" was not very African with the recently introduced M7 locomotive in British Railways lined black, two open wagons, a fish van and a British Railways Goods Brake and an oval of track.

Needless to say I dismantled the M7 including removing the wheels, but eventually managed to get it working again evening learning to replace a damaged insulated brush and quarter wheels and I am still learning.

I was about 10 or 12 before I actually got close to a real train a train ride behind a black diesel in a compartment coach from Killiney to Tara Street.

I had to suspend the International Air Small Parcel tracked option for shipments to Europe because of on going problems with customs clearance in Ireland which is costing me time and money.

Last week a number of items were returned to sender because of insufficient customs information on the declarations despite the items cleared customs before Christmas the customers having paid the vat and An Post Charges.

The items were initially stopped in November but later cleared through customs apparently as a result of NZ Post intervention, but have shown little interest in following up to find out why the items were stopped in the first place or returned. An Post has not responded to questions I asked in connection with the declarations except for the usual stock answers and have not responded to a formal complaint in connections with problems experienced last August and September. Having worked for large public and private sector organisations its almost a sacking offence for a worker to admit to a customer that its systems are not perfect.

I suspect there may be a problem with the customs data transmitted by NZ Post to An Post while I enter the correct 10 digit Taric Codes while creating a shipment in NZ Posts cloud based system the code is displayed in 9 digit format on the Post Expres label used with the International Air Small Parcel options.

Although NZ Post claim that the data is transmitted to An Post in 10 digit format, this is not going to work if someone in An Post has to physically scan or read the declaration on the printed label.

I understand that NZ  Post are planning to revise the label to display the Taric code in the required 10 digit format and may reinstate the  NZ Post International Air Small Parcel Options 

At this stage I am unlikely to be in a position to accept orders for rtr wagons before March/April as I am currently awaiting a delivery of an order of custom decals from our supplier in the UK

Asbestos became a very emotive subject in Ireland as the health risks became known to the general public with an effective ban on the legal disposal of asbestos in the Republic we shifted the problem to Northern Ireland and Germany.

A lot of asbestos waste from Ireland was disposed of in Germany as there were no approved local authority waste sites in the Republic, the joke was the asbestos was removed and transported from Ireland under controlled conditions and tipped into quarries in Germany with minimal controls. The German waste companies both found it very amusing and highly profitable. 

Asbestos in drinking water does not appear to be a significant health risk a lot of watermains are asbestos cement and unlikely to require replacement for many years. Asbestos only becomes a serious health risk when the fibers become air borne very unlikely with saturated fibers, the main risk with high pressure water blasting was the resulting sludge drying out and turning to dust.

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

E429?  Did they have that too? I thought it was 428 & 430 they had at Attymon? Did they get another, or maybe swop 430 for 429?

Yes, now that I think of it - someone with BR sympathies……I can guess who that was….. and I have to say that I thought the laminates looked very well in maroon & cream (though the E and the G looked ridiculous in maroon….) 

My mistake it was E428 430 was scrapped to provide parts for 428, in order to survive WISRA had to change from being a railway preservation society to an excursion train operator where there was no room for sentimentality about prototypical livery.

Its unlikely that CIE marketing and legal people would have been particularly happy with another company infringing on its corporate image by using CIEs logos livery and styling.

Its likely that the RPSI always painted its coaches in a different colour scheme to CIE/IE and NIR stock for much the same reason, the RPSI Laminates originally appeared with green bottom panels to blank out the CIE Tan before re-painting the coaches in a more historic livery.

10 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

this came up on a Facebook group “British diesel locomotives”. The 165 DS in CSE livery, G class in CIE black and “westrail” livery E class 

The Tuam 165 was an impressive machine and looks well in CSE green livery. Someone in Westrail had a soft spot for British Railways/BR liveries besides the Blood and Custard coaches, painting the 165DS in Rail Blue. E429 once carried the BR points (arrows of indecision) emblem at Attymon under WISRA ownership. The 165DS was damaged in an arson attack on Tuam Shed at some stage after Westrail ceased operation fortunately E429 and some of the coaching stock survived.

For the more adventurous Judith Edge Kits produce high quality etched kits of both the RH 88DS and 165DS and a kit for the Harland and Woolfe 0-6-0 shunter  https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/catalogue/judithedge.html and High Level Kits a motorising kit for the 88DS. These kits if assembled carefully are likely to run better than and outlast the modern Hornby rtr industrials.

9 hours ago, Jaz avalley said:

We have an outbuilding with 5 percent asbestos, we replaced the roof as it was starting to leak, left the walls as they were sound,the price for removing asbestos is scary nowadays, we don’t paint the walls as when the paint aged it would life the asbestos surface, we had to remove the roof ourselves as the new roof suppliers were not enamoured,we were careful to not smash and carefully pack,wear masks, wash hands, and if it had been blowy we may have dampened, but luckily weather was as good as it gets. 
Surprisingly a straw roof filler in another outbuilding had asbestos in it again low level fairly inert,I luckily had the old paperwork passed on from the ex owner, he had had trouble selling the property the asbestos in the outbuildings likely made it harder for him to sell,but luckily cheaper for us to buy,the house is asbestos free.

There is a product called Fiberlock applied by low pressure airless spray which is used to encapsulate asbestos.     https://www.fiberlock.com/product/abc-asbestos-binding-compound/

Fiberlock is often used to encapsulate or seal cement asbestos before painting. Cement asbestos is relatively low risk unless you grind, cut or drill it with power tools or try to clean it with a high pressure water blaster.

Loose asbestos insulation is considered to be high risk material but not a problem if left undisturbed.

Perception is a big factor what an Irish person may perceive as rude and ignorant is often considered to be perfectly normal behaviour in other cultures. For many years mainly I struggled with the perception that people who spoke with a British RP were rude and arrogant while believing that people who spoke with UK regional accents were warm and friendly mainly as a result of speech and tone. Having lived and worked in Ireland and overseas you will always know where you stand with a person who speaks their mind than someone from a culture that is obsequious or excessively polite. 

Having worked in Ireland, the UK and New Zealand I have found that small manufacturing businesses tend to be good at making things but poor at communication some of my main suppliers are very poor at responding to phone calls and e-mails but deliver quality products on time. 

I had experiences with extremely poor internal communication while working for a New Zealand Government agency and eventually had to get out to save my sanity!

The last two years has been extremely difficult for UK component manufacturers who are mainly one man band operations as they struggle to cope with increased demand and supply side problems, who often literally don't have time to answer the phone or reply to e-mails as they focus on the manufacturing side working long hours for relatively low returns.

The "Yorkshire attitude"  is no different from Irish intercounty rivalry especially between Cork and other counties. 

Probably belongs in Broithe's Factory Life Column, I was working as a site manager on a large construction site in Watford about 30 years ago, our safety officer Frank from Wakefield in the South Riding who had (to me anyway) a broad Yorkshire accent, my boss Keith was also from Wakefield was more soft spoken and one of the best managers I worked for in construction. One of Frank's jobs was to induct contractors when they arrived on site including a group of Lift Engineers from Keightly  West Yorkshire, lift engineers always tended to consider themselves to be the royalty of construction trades the crew from Keightly did not quite fit the whippet (greyhound) and cloth cap northerner stereotype but spoke in a West Yorkshire dialect using thee and thou in their every day speech.

Not impressed with being called in to a 1 hour site induction with a truck load of lifts waiting to be unloaded they addressed Frank   "thee Southeners have no idea" the engineers sat through the induction without further complaint and quietly carried out their work installing the lifts, I don't know whether Frank was insulted or found it funny to be accused of being a "Southener"

Tony. Sorry to hear that Fontona has gone to the graveyard. 

I am impressed by the modelling that you shared with us on the news group in particular your original Omagh North concept and your model of Omagh Goods Yard.

I tend to put a project on hold, and return to it at a later date when I loose interest or run into what appears to be an insurmountable problem in the meantime move on to another project.

My narrow gauge Keadue layout has been around for nearly 18 years with a number of stops and starts when I lost interest or ran into problems, but I don't intended to scrap it

As we get older I think the important thing is to identify and focus on the aspects of the hobby we find the most interesting and enjoyable as we have less time for false starts, whether your main modelling interest is in building and assembling models or in running trains, whether you prefer shunting or simply to watch trains run round.

For me the main problem is that I over analyse things and it takes me increasingly longer to start and not quite complete a project, I started researching Kiltimagh in 1982, installed the baseboard framing in 2014, have most of the material in stock and still have not started work on the layout.

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

it was supposed to come out last year. Still have not been released i think

The Carlow, Mallow and Thurles Rustons were 88DS locos same as the Hornby model, I don't think the smaller 48DS model was used in Ireland.

The Tuam Ruston was a much larger rod coupled 165DS loco not dissimilar in appearance to the Hornby R30050 Bagnall model https://www.040trainsnmodels.co.nz/product/92914/ and the Tuam loco was painted in what looked like British rail "Rail Blue" I don't remember if it had black and yellow warning stripes like the Hornby Model.

The GSR inherited a Peckett 0-4-0ST "Paddy" from Allman Distillery in Bandon, two large Peckett 0-4-0STs were used at the Courtaulds factory near Carrickfergus and Londonderry Harbour Commissioners used a pair of industrial 0-6-ST for working its dock lines an ancient looking Robert Stephenson 'Coffee Pot" and a modern Avonside both of which are preserved.

Paddy seems to have been similar in size to the Hornby locos but was a more modern loco with less ornate boiler fittings.

The Hornby Peckett 0-4-0 and 0-6-0ST are very nice looking models typical of locos built for industrial use around the turn of the 20th Century and would not look out of place at a medium to large industrial site or private siding such as a port large factory or a mine.

I managed to glue the point blades and swell a section of MDF trackbase when I completed the ballasting on my Keadue narrow gauge layout about 10 years ago.

The original ballast looked too coarse for a branch/narrow gauge line, so I topped up the existing ballast with a fine ash ballast and gummed everything up by using a very dilute water pva mix using an eye-dropper rather than a sprayer.

I eventually managed to free up the point blades and re-lay a siding where I damaged the MDF with excess water, ten years on the blades still need easing if I haven't run the layout for a while. I am reasonably satisfied with the layout which is a good backdrop to my narrow gauge stock and brightens up the home office.

Will then MM coaches derail (on 2nd or 3rd radius curves) if the couplers are fixed in the normal or straight position? 

Self-centering couplings used on the MM coaches seems to be a UK/European thing.

Most American coaches and freight cars (HO and large scale) are fitted with body mounted knuckle couplers and will stay coupled without de-railing on relatively small radius curves.

I used body mounted Kadee's on Lima Mk3s, Hornby Stanier, Park Royal and Laminate coaches though minimum radius was fairly large.

The Model Railway Society of Loughrea group standarised during the 1990s on Kadee No 36 couplings for locos coaches and wagons https://www.kadee.com/ho-scale-couplers-c-274_276_284/36-ho-scale-30series-plastic-couplers-with-gearboxes-long-2564-centerset-shank-p-270.htm which worked out very reliable under exhibition conditions.

The standard 30 Series dragbox and long center set shank worked out ideal for converted rtr, kit and scratchbuilt stock even a Push Pull set with Lima MK3 Coaches no problems with height adjustment as the bottom edge of the chassis/buffer beam provides a reliable datum for fixing the daftgear box, the coupler includes nylon fixing screws and washers which prevent the box rotating.

I fitted the MM 141s with body mount couplings by removing the draft gear box from the bogies and fitting the box to the pilot together with the little filler/piece supplied with the loco, the conversion takes me back to fitting Microtrain couplers to Atlas and Kato N Gauge diesels in the early 1990s before the manufacturers eliminated the coupler slot by switching from bogie to body mounted  couplings for N gauge American diesels.

The problem seems to have been a shortage of connecting flights from Asia/Middle East to Ireland, we had similar problems with shipments during the Alpha stage of the pandemic.

An Post have processed and cleared the shipment through Irish Customs, though they are still show up as "In Transit with Airline" on the NZ Post tracking system.

22 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I was in the cab of an 071 on the Cork line about 1979 and he was delayed leaving, then held at a signal somewhere near Kildare, making him ten minutes down overall. Begad, he threw the anchor and parachutes away after that (about 8 or 9 Mk 2s and genny van behind), and on what they driver referred to as “the racetrack” between Templemore & Thurles he was doing 84…. I think, though stand to be corrected, that the line limit there was 70….

I had a similar experience in an Up Westport behind an 071 during the early 90s (not in the cab) departed Athlone late apparently checked by late running Westbound trains between Portarlington and Athlone but positively took off after crossing the Asahi Liner at Geashill and recovered most of the lost time between Portarlington and Clondalkin presumably he had a clear road ahead with no signal checks and the Up Cork line cleared for 100mph running once through the slack at Portarlington.

I travelled a lot by rail during the mid 80s early 90s while home on holidays from the UK, but seldom traveled by rail following my return to Ireland except from Dublin to Bangor for model railway exhibitions and a family weekend in Galway.

We traveled on an 071 hauled in Craven coaches on an RPSI Seabreeze to Wexford in 2018 but it turned out to be an endurance test that an enjoyable day out, how one's ideas of what constitutes a good day out changes as we get older.

Wow!

While it seems strange on the face of it, 3D prints are sometimes machined with a milling machine or a lathe in a similar manner to a metal casting to achieve a precision finish

I just received confirmation that a shipment to Irish customers dispatched mid-November/early December arrived in Ireland on 31st December, and that An Post have not yet opened the shipment or began processing the items.

NZ Post have advised that they will continue to monitor the shipment.

On 5/1/2022 at 8:03 AM, patrick said:

What Kadee do you recommend for the brake van John?

Never checked until today actually!

The coupling mount on the wagons are designed around the Bachmann 36-030 straight narrow coupling.

As Tom (Ironroad) indicated the 18, 19 or 20 should work.  The No17 is too short!

14 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

Yes there is a wealth of pictures on the IRRS flickr without doubt a fablous resource there also some in the O'Dea Collection .

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307735

Including a grain wagon in this one 

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307730

 

 

The 46 Mile Box de-railment photos is a great illustration of the mixed nature of rolling stock in use during the transition from the wagon load to the Liner Train era with modern and traditional rolling stock running in loose coupled goods trains.

CIE had started to introduce "modern" vacuum braked wagons capable of running at 50mph, keg traffic had recenly been palletised with open containers on standard 20T flats and ESSO had introduced redundant tank wagons from the UK to modernise its fleet. 

There seems to have been an interesting mix of "new" and traditional tank wagons in the train and a CIE truck and 20' container taking part in the recovery operation. https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307729

CIE was still transporting grain to Polloxfen's  Mill in GSR bulk grains wagons built in the mid 1930s some of which were still running with the flying snail logo and at least one with the wheel emblem and GSR style solid lettering. The GSR used rust resistant steel in the grain wagons so painting these wagons was a fairly low priority compared to timber and ply bodied wagons.

Derailments and runaways seems to have been an accepted part of loose coupled goods operation, there was a mid 1970s newspaper (The Indo?) report of a loose coupled goods dividing and de-railing at it departed a station on the Mayo Line, the driving arriving at the next station without noticing anything until the signal man asked what happened to the rest of his train. (Ballyhaunis-Claremorris?).

Apparently an axle broke on a wagon in the middle of the train causing the coupler to break and other wagons to pile up and de-rail behind the wagon with the broken axle meanwhile the driver continues to the next station with the front part of the train not realising what happened. The article included a photo of de-railed H Vans and Pallet Wagons.

19 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

That would have been interesting - though they already had an alternative in Inny Junction - Clones - Porteedown….

The Midland route via Inny Junction was very indirect for Dublin-Cavan passenger services and was 'mouldering' away in CIE days after the ending of passenger services. The GNR and CIE focusing on serving Navan, Cavan and possibly Monaghan by direct bus and coach services from Dublin rather than the indirect rail routes via Inny Junction or Dundalk.

Although there was a railway mania era proposal for a Dublin-Enniskillen Direct Railway which presumably would have connected with the Londonderry and Enniskillen to provide a direct route from Dublin to the North West the Midland and the companies that formed the GNR would not have wanted another company invading their territory and a Kells Cavan line was never built, though the Dublin and Meath acquired running powers over the Dublin and Belfast Junction and later the GNR between Navan and Kells. 

Dublin-Navan-Cavan-Monaghan has a certain logic to it a direct route serving reasonably large towns by Irish standards with rail providing a more competitive journey time with Expressway Bus services.

Anyway its a nice fantasy with Virgina as the principal through station something of a tourist destination for anglers and reasonable goods traffic in connection with the local dairy and meat processing industries and these days a growing commuter town.

The big question is whether the buildings and structures would have followed the Wilkinson's solemn styling found on the Midland and DWWR, the redbrick gingerbread styling found at Bellavary and the Western Branches or GNR Mills era brick building or the more humble building found on the Meath Line

16 hours ago, Ironroad said:

 

Does anyone know the Irish running numbers of the Esso UK class A tank wagons? The  Heljan model represents them as they were when imported,  I recollect seeing a picture elsewhere on the site of one being unloaded I believe at Nth Wall . The picture above indicates the tank supports were modified at some point does anyone know when this occurred?

971-1013. The wagons originally ran with the ESSO shields similar to the UK wagons, the shields were removed and the  redesigned tank supports fitted by the mid 1980s

There is a good selection of colour photos of these wagons in the IRRS Photo Archive Wagon Album  https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/

The IRRS subscription is worth it for access to the photo archive alone.

On 13/12/2021 at 10:39 PM, flange lubricator said:

I don't think Kildare, Protarlington and Athy were served with bagged cement but bagged cement would have certainly passed through on occasion. The bagged cement ran to Wexford towards the late 1990's early 2000's from Waterford arriving from Dublin North wall as part of the nightly liner . Places like Cork . Ennis,Clonmel ,Thurles receiving bagged cement trains up to the early 2000's.

Kildare, Portarlington and Athy closed to wagon load and sundries traffic during the 1970s as they were not included in the CIE freight development plan. 

I think Kildare and Portarlington closed to regular goods traffic late in 1975. 

Athy goods yard continued to handle goods traffic until the Dublin-Waterford goods went over to Liner operation at some stage during the late 1970s with Carlow and Kilkenny the only intermediate stations handling freight.

Goods for Athy appears to have been conveyed in CIE ISO containers on standard 20' skeletal flat wagons rather than H Vans and Corrugated Opens  during the its final year of operation.

Wagons with side door and half height ISO containers were in the good yard when I travelled to Waterford on a Railrover ticket during my 1977 or 78 summer Holidays!

Portarlington continued to handle sugar beet in corrugated opens into the late 1970s possibly early 80s possibly served by Tullamore-Thurles specials which also served Geashill on the Portarlington-Athlone line

Economics the Irish railways tended to re-paint locos and stock following an overhaul or repair, this was during an era before the idea of subsidising loss making public transport was accepted and CIE was expected to make a profit or at least break even on it road, rail canal and sea operations (Aran Island ferry)

Establishing and maintaining a uniform corporate image become irrelevant when a company has a monopoly of rail transport services.

The UTA appeared to be more consistent than CIE in applying its corporate image repainting GNR steam locos, railcars and coaching stock, some GNR steam locos were still running in GNR blue on main line passenger services up to the ending of GNR steam operations with the closure of the Derry Road and Newry Warrenpoint branch in 1965.

The CIE BUT railcar sets used on the Belfast and Dublin-Rosslare trains in the early 60s had a real rainbow effect with driving cars painted in GNR Blue and Cream and the new CIE Black and Tan scheme and trailer coaches potentially in GNR Mahogany, Blue and Cream, CIE Green and Black and Tan potentially hauling CIE Luggage vans in silver, CIE Green or Black and Tan.

The BUT railcars were introduced in 57-8 and would not have become due for overhaul re-painting until the early 1960s, GNR BUT railcar trailer stock would have dated from the 1930-40s and could potentially have run in the two GNR schemes, CIE late 1950s green and black and tan as coaches went through the overhaul and re-painting process during the 1950s and 60s.

2 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Thanks, John.

White's Law applies. (for those in the dark - when it was pointed out that something shouldn't have been on David's "Old Blarney" - he boomed "It's my layout and I'll run what I like on it!"!

It's your railway, so run what you like on it!

Wait until you see the GAA specials from the Midlands to POrtadown - hauled by your 2-4-0!

I was wondering if you were able to get the 2-4-0 go!

Better still Broadstone-Belfast and Portrush trains over the Kingscourt-Castleblaney and Armagh .

The Midland's plans to extend north from Kingscourt to Armagh and link up with the NCC was blocked by the GNR Carrickmacross  branch.

I keep going back to Kells-Cavan as a missing link that could have kept Cavan and Monaghan on the map with direct Dublin-Cavan-Monaghan passenger service after the Border Lines closed.

15 minutes ago, David Holman said:

All rather splendid - and summer too!

Weather been abnormally hot and sunny over the Christmas/New Year holidays after a cool wet spring, better not complain about the heat.

The good weather has been a great incentive to carry out improvements catch up with maintenance on the garden railway which has been neglected with very little maintenance or running during the past 12 months.

Next big project is top replace the roller shutter doors on the garage/railway room workshop with something more suitable and fit for purpose.