Mayner

55 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

On that you tube video see the oil Tank Wagon shoved up over another one,, @ kilmac Looks pretty awkward! wonder what caused that.

It looks like the wagons piled up or telescoped following a derailment and were dumped in the siding at Kilmacthomas, possibly as a result of a hot box or a broken axle on one of the wagons.

The wrecked tank wagons were at Kilmac and a crippled magnesite at Ballinacourty on the final day of operation when a Quigley staff excursion and an IRRS "last train' operated over the line.

39 minutes ago, Niles said:

The DSER had some LNWR-built 2-4-2Ts, I think of Webb design. Curiously at least one of them was subsequently regauged to 4'8.5 and ended up in a colliery in GB. 

I don't know if there's a kit (doubt RTR?) for that type but someone will know I'm sure.

The 6 ex-LNWR 4'6" 2-4-2Ts did not last too long in their original condition on the DSER one No64 was re-built with a new boiler and cylinders in 1914, the remaining 5 were returned to the UK during WW1 mainly for industrial use.

Apart from the small driving wheels and side tanks the re-built No64/427 resembled a DSER rather than a Webb loco with a high pitched boiler, DSER cab, boiler fittings.

Ironically Robinson's pair of WLWR 2-4-2T 13 & 14 look similar to the LNWR 5'6" 2-4-2T, both 13 & 14 survived into the mid 1930s with relatively minor modification as 267 and 491. The GSWR sold  13 (GSWR 266) to the Cork Macroom Direct in the early 1900s, following the amalgamation the loco grouped with CMDR rather than the  GSWR locos and received a different class designation (F5) to 266 Inchacore apparently forgetting that the two locos were nearly identical.

GEM produced whitemetal kits of both the Webb 4'6" and 5'6" 2-4-2T the 5'6" would be a reasonable choice for a rtr model potentially available in LNWR, LMS and British Railways schemes

Personally I think you will achieve a better model and more long lasting result if you assemble the loco with the SSM chassis rather than try and use a rtr  donor chassis.

My first attempt at kit building a TMD Midland Tank of 1983 complete with original wheels gears and motor still looks reasonably well and is still runs reliably nearly 40 years later while all my attempts using rtr chassis ended up in the scrap bin within a fairly short time.

The TMD tank was my first etched kit (and 21mm gauge loco)  I knew very little about soldering, but managed to assemble the loco without major problems with a 25w iron and paste flux and the minimum of hand tools

I modernised the loco into CIE condition about 10 years later with new smokebox wrapper, smokebox door, chimney and safety valves as the kit only included parts for the loco in pre-1912 MGWR condition.

I later graduated to Carrs and DDC Concepts modelling solders with liquid fluxes more efficient soldering irons and gradually built up a collection of suitable tools.

Markits driving and bogie wheels are basically a no-brainer  in OO as they are easy to fit, a Coreless or Can Motor with a 53:1 gearbox from a supplier such as High Level Kits or Branchlines will give you a transmission with a speed range that's ideal for a mixed traffic or goods loco like a B4.

Branchlines sales@branchlines.com usually stock Mashima can motors their 10X24 would be idea for a B4 the  Multibox gearbox with brass gears is extremely robust and simple to assemble.

Highlevel Kits https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/ supply 12 and 13mm Coreless motors which would be suitable for a B4, their Road Runner + with a 45:1 ratio would be suitable for B4. The High Level Greaboxes with their nylon gearing have a very good reputation, but can be a bit fiddly to assemble and its easy to loos the loose grubscrew in the findal drive gear.

I tended to use Multiboxes in large mainly BR steam locos and High Level Gearboxes in my more recent Irish locos.

Tool wise a working surface with desk lamp, a 50watt soldering for brass work , a set of needle files, and tapered broaches for opening out bearing and pin holes are the basic tools for loco/kit assembly. Carrs or DCC concepts Detailing or 145° solder in combination with Carrs Red or DCC Concepts Sapphire solder should be adequate for chassis and loco/coach body assembly.

5 hours ago, warb said:

23/24 years ago Marks Models was producing resin kits to scale i.e. 141's/201's way above what was being produced at the time.

The most impressive aspect of the whole business was the quality and production rate of a small group of younger MRSI modellers who produced scratchbuilt models of the 201s, new railcars and masters for the resin castings, there was no waiting for a kit or rtr manufacturer to produce an accurate commercial model of an Irish prototype they just did it!

As a slightly older Irish scratch builder/kit-basher seeing these high quality scratchbuilt 201s, Sparrow and Arrow railcars and other models was a revelation similar to Neil Young fist hearing the Sex Pistols----------I was blown away by the quality of the modelling and their production rate.

10 years earlier very few people were modelling Irish railways and now a small group of modellers were scratchbuilding high quality fleets of locos, coaches and rolling stock.

The AEC Railcars and coaches introduced in the 1950s appear to have had larger diameter buffers than pre-amalgamation bogie stock.

The Bogie Coaches appear to have been prohibited on the Valencia branch until the restriction was eased in the mid-195. 

There was a note in the Valentia page of the 1960 Working Timetable  that "Bogie vehicles can work between Killorglin and Valentia Harbour provided they be fitetd with Elliptical Buffers or with Round Buffers of not less than 18".

"Modern" CIE coaches (4 coach rake) appear to have replaced 6 wheelers on the Morning Valencia-Tralee passenger and the afternoon return working while a solitary MGWR 6w 3rd provided passenger accommodation on the morning Killorglin-Valencia Mixed and afternoon Valencia-Tralee "Perishable", the morning "Mixed" departed Tralee complete with 6w coach as a goods but did not officially carry passengers before Killorglin.  I guess most people took the bus or drove between Tralee and Killorglin

1 hour ago, Sean said:

Following a successful trip to marks yesterday planning permission for the fiddle yard has been granted in the most unusual of locations, hopefully the drivers do not become too distracted by their new aquatic overlords.

 

PWD have been brought in to take care of construction of the new line. (very tempted to turn the spoil boxes into 4w barytes although i know i really shouldnt, lol)

 

the baseboard is sitting on a keyboard stand, so luckily i can simply lower it to the same height as this surface,.

 

It will be nessesary to build some sort of bridge over to the baseboard, which also will have to curve onto the other wall. ill have to take the bridge out when the layout is not in use so it needs to be easy to setup and put away. gives the trains a little bit of a run then instead of just shunting from one end of a board to another..

 

finally able to start working out how long the loop and sidings will need to be now that the key pieces of rolling stock have been obtained.  when working in rail modeller i like to work on the measurement of "pieces of settrack required to hold this rolling stock" and adjust things from there. given space constraints i couldnt do this properly until i had bufferstops in my posession.

 

going back to my original diagram, I will move the fuelling area to the loco spur, as discussed in an earlier post. that way i can dump some tankers in there, most likely will try to model the houston-alexandra road set of 4 tankers.

 

the fiddle yard allows the parking of 2 locos and 2 rakes. and either loco to take a rake of choice whilst another loco COULD be up waiting to depart or shunting the layout on a particularly busy day, but given the location of the layout it is rare that traffic will ever be so busy. an extra rake being parked in the station in the "old" siding  will also regularly be seen, for some variety.

 

to solve the issue of turning 130 in the fiddle yard, she can propel in with the push pull set and couple straight up to  a goods set and depart, then she can turn around at the station and either park up or take the wagons back to the fiddle. occasionally it can be turned by hand or a a lazy driver might simply drive it back to the station going the "wrong" way. it is unlikely she will ever double head.

 

 

rakes are to remain short but prototypical as i have seen to be typical on the quieter lines during this era. pallet cement wagons are likely to be my next acquisition but i have loads to keep me occupied for now,  I want guinness too!, so if i cant find IRM loads anymore i will have to try my hand at making them.

 

it is likely we wont see much 201 class action on the layout(due to it not yet existing in this layouts world), however I still want to have the option of running whatever i like from time to time so therefore all headshunts have been designed with her lenght in mind.

 

 

Looks very close to John Allen's Timesaver concept http://gdlines.org/GDLines/Timesaver.html.

To work the headshunt or loco release at both ends needs to be long enough for a wagon and a loco. 

The puzzle works as a self contained layout with 5 wagons and one loco and can take over half an-hour to switch/shunt the five wagons between their starting and final positions.

I added a fiddle yard to my North Wharf timesaver, the min fiddle yard is long enough for 4 w or 2 bogie wagons and a B121 

Although I use 4w wagons the constraints run-round and head shunt lengths are the same as a Timesaver with bogie wagons & a small diesel

14 hours ago, StevieB said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but 26595 is a former magnesite wagon. There is a picture on this forum of one converted into a hopper wagon. I think it was at Ballinacourty, so presumably it was used for the transport of dolomite.

Stephen

The covered hopper is a Magnesite Wagon out of use since the Ballinacourty traffic ceased in the early 1980s the second is a Zinc Ore wagons out of service for a similar length of time.

Most of the  Magnesite Wagons were stored at Enniscorthy, the Dolomite Hoppers were basically to the same design as the Ballast & Gypsum Hoppers and may have been used for either traffic after Ballinacourty closed.

1 hour ago, WRENNEIRE said:

 

 

25855

 

 

The wagons appear to be prototype Beet Wagons using body panels salvaged from the corrugated opens on 20' flat wagons built in the Mid-1960.

I have a CIE drawing of a Beet Double of similar to the wagon in the background titled "Modified Open Goods Wagon Bodies on 20Ton Flat Wagon Underframe for Beet Traffic Mark 3"

The main difference from the wagons in the photos is that the corners are shown slightly rounded on the drawing.

It looks like someone realised that it would be a lot cheaper and quicker to mount the existing wagon bodies with minimal modification on the 20T chassis.

The BNCR  Compounds Jubilee and Parkmount looked similar to the LNWR locos before rebuilding as 4-4-0s.

The two Irish locos had 7' diameter driving wheels the largest used in  Ireland

Apart from the Midland Railway smokebox the rebuilt version looks a bit like an LNWR Precursor Class which is supposed to be a development of the Jumbo or Precedent Class

17 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

This little yoke has a huge aversion to staying on the rails, and refuses to do so at all if being shunted.

Thoughts?

 

Brassmasters 6w suspension Unit http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm if you can persuade some on to assemble it.

Hornby 6W van Chassis- https://www.ebay.ie/sch/Model-Railroads-Trains-/180250/i.html?_nkw=hornby+palethorpes+sausages

Try removing the center axle and see if it stays on the track. If so try an source a flangeless wheel set.

55 minutes ago, seagoebox said:

Limerick Junction before the shot-blasting was moved to Silvermines

Any Idea when the photo was taken or whether the tank wagons still exist. The ESSO Tank wagons were cut up (by ESSO) at the North Wall shortly after the Sligo and Claremorris oil traffic ceased.

6 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

Guns in the Heather I believe was filmed on the Long Pavement-Ardnacrusha branch with B151 (was this the only instance of a diesel on the Ardnacrusha branch?)

THE SECRET OF BOYNE CASTLE | British Railway Movie Database

The station scene appears to have been filmed at Craughwell Station on the Limerick-Athenry section of the WLWR line, the Ardnacrusha branch appears to have been in use up to the early 1970s with diesel hauled goods trains.

Nice to see the interior of a side corridor coach after all these years.

Padraic O'Cuimin mentions the filming in his book the Baronial Lines of the MGWR, I think he mentions the replacement of the crossover from the running line to the loop in chaired bullhead track with the branch G Class assisting in slewing the new crossover into positioning and general tidying up of trackwork in the station.

Apparently the branch had something of a revival in the mid-late 60s with a Station Master actively promoting cattle traffic and material for both Tynagh Mine and the "Alfred the Great" film set arriving by rail. The mine appears to have given a short lived to the branch though the ore went direct by road from the mine to Galway Port. The mine was worked out by 1982 and seems to have left a nice mess https://connachttribune.ie/tynagh-labelled-most-hazardous-mine-in-ireland/ for the Isish taxpayer to clean up.

Probably the tail end of the days where the local Station Master was also the 'sales rep" for CIE with the authority to agreed rates and get things done before it went over to the "Area Manager" system long before todays "Call Center's" and "Account Managers" with little or no influence in negotiating rates or actually getting things done.

On 22/1/2022 at 11:21 PM, Broithe said:

 .

This reminded me of why I very rarely use that term for super-glue.

Our circuit breakers did have a tendency to blow up, but usually for plausibly valid reasons, and generally in a 'safe' manner, with nobody nearby at the time.

However, one was blown up in Middlesbrough in the mid-1980s. This time, a chap had been operating it manually and 'off-load' at the time - purely mechanical operations. These were still fairly violent and produced a good amount of noise. After one operation, he heard a 'different' noise, but carried on to find out how many stored operations it had left. But, it wouldn't operate at all, so he stepped back to see what was going on - and fell over the centre interrupter, about a ton, which had fallen twenty feet onto the gravel just behind him (making the 'odd' sound).

'They' got very upset about what was a potentially fatal incident and denied that the operations had been carried out in such a manner that the closing operation had been initiated whilst the opening operation was still happening - this could cause the drive rod to buckle and demolish the whole structure - automatically, this wouldn't happen, but it was possible, if you really tried, to cause it by flipping the manual handle fast enough. This is clearly what happened, but it was denied.

So we went through a process of sticking strain gauges all over an identical breaker on the same site and measuring what actually happened when it operated - they refused to allow me to simulate what I knew had been done, so we just ended up showing that it couldn't have blown up at all...

Anyway, the point of all this is that they wanted their own strain readings and had a bloke called Jack doing it for them. He hadn't the slightest idea of what he was doing and spent 90% of his time trying to watch and copy us. He had personally discovered super-glue just a few days before the tests began and took every possible opportunity to educate anybody he could trap about the features of it - including what he would reveal its 'correct' name to be - cycroanylate

 

To this day, I have to check myself and practice in my head, before I try saying cyanoacrylate.

Reminds me of one one of my fathers experiences as a maintenance fitter in a chocolate factory.

The company was having 'teething' problems with a new German made machine first couple of times a Technician was travel over from Germany to carry out warranty repairs but would not explain why the machine had gone out of tolerance or how he rectified the problem and the company was not exactly happy for paying for a technician to travel over from Germany every time the problem re-occurred.

My father and the other fitters could not get to the bottom of the problem, so next time the problem occurred my father got his 'mate" or helper to hide on a gantry above the machine while my father chatted with the German before announcing that he was going out for a 'smoke", the German opened an inspection panel and reversed a pair of fibre cogs once my father had gone out for his smoke and the machine was back in calibration. My father could never understand how reversing the cogs re-calibrated the machine but it worked and the services of the German technician were no longer needed.

The Gypsum Wagons originally operated as a direct 3 time weekly  Kingscourt-Castlemugnet train.

The Limerick Gypsums were usually appeared to be attached to the rear of 201 Class hauled Platin-Cork Bulk Cement trains between Platin and Limerick Junction from the Mid-Late 1990s and worked to Limerick by a trip working.

I don't know the load limits but the 201s and 071s would have allowed longer heavier trains to be run than 001s or pairs of Small GMs (121,141,181).

Possibly an ex BNCR Goods Brake Van, the looked like a standard goods van with side doors and a balcony at one end.

Some photos and sketches in New Irish Lines Vol 8 No 2 2017  https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrgk5h1z95zw5go/New Irish Lines Vol. 8 No. 2 - 2017 November.pdf?dl=0

There may be another NIL article on BCDR Brake van as the 2017 article is titled "More on BNCR Brake Vans"!

34 minutes ago, Sean said:

guys this info is all super invaluable and answers most of my questions in one go

 

@seagoebox - those pics capture the essence of what i was hoping to could do just perfectly. I had struggled particularly to find images of containers being unloaded/loaded.... looks like i even have enough space to run a prototypical train....

what else was put onto 42 foot flats, were the pallets of fertiliser on those, or pulled in tow in the fert wagons?

and finally what is actually meant by the term liner to a an uneducated lay person such as myself? if anybody can point me towards any particularly interesting videos of mixed liner trains that would be great. have seen a couple of interesting ones so far.

 

for passenger action i think im sorted: 

The 42' flats were used to transport ISO containers & Keg container. 

Fertiliser was transported in Fertiliser wagons usually in train load lots (10-15) wagons direct from a factory or port to depots around the country, sometimes Fertliiser Wagons were marshalled in Liner Trains.

A Liner Train was CIE/IE terminology for scheduled usually overnight freight trains made up of modern fully braked Bogie and 4 Wheel wagons that mainly carried container and keg traffic on the radial routes from Dublin to Waterford, Cork, Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Westport-Ballina, Sligo, Belfast, Derry and between Limerick and Waterford.   Liner trains usually ran point to point in fixed formations of 15 bogie wagons or 20+ 4 wheel wagons usually with no shunting to add or detach wagons en-route. The Forklift loading/unloading containers on the Main Line at Nenagh is a good example of this principal.  Roscrea and Ennis were served by daytime trip working or shunt from Limerick which were also called Liner Trains, the Roscrea and Ennis trains tended to be shorter than the Dublin-Limerick Liner Trains.

Container and bagged cement traffic was sometimes unloaded on the running lines at smaller depots like Nenagh, Mullingar, Roscommon and Boyle. Fertiliser trains were usually unloaded on a siding or loop clear of the running lines Nenagh, Mullingar and Roscommon retained sidings for unloading fertiliser trains which were also useful if it was necessary to shunt a Liner or Bagged Cement train clear of the running line or to unload wagons.

Although originally frowned on it became common the drop off Bagged Cement wagons for unloading at intermediate stations such as Nenagh while the train continued to its destination and pick up the empty wagons on the trains return.

CIE went over to fixed formation Liner Train operation in the late 1970s, with scheduled Liner Trains (mainly bogie wagons) mainly transporting container,  keg traffic, tar and (non-trainload) oil traffic on the Radial Routes out of Dublin and between Limerick and Waterford, Bulk commodities such as Anhydrous Ammonia, Bagged & Bulk Cement, Fertiliser, ESSO Oil and mineral traffic were again transported in fixed formation trains in special purpose wagons. The use of corrugated wagons  ended in the early 1980s with the introduction of the Beet Doubles for Wellingtonbridge-Thurles traffic, beet traffic to the Tuam, Mallow and Carlow factories having ceased.

Oil was mainly transported in 4w tanks wagons, tar was mainly transported in ISO Containers on 4w flat wagons and some fuel oil was also transported in 4w container wagon.

Most of the smaller yards and private sidings had gone by the mid-1970s with CIE no shunt railway principal, the remaining yards and private sidings were set up to handle fixed formation 15 Bogie/20 4W wagon trains, a number of sidings re-opened to handle bulk traffic during the 1990s including RH Hall Waterford to handle grain traffic (Open ISO containers), Sligo Quay Bitumen and a new siding at Portlaoise to handle grain traffic.

Irish Rail eased the CIE fixed formation Liner/single commodity trainload policy during the 1990s, Cross-Border and Dundalk-Dublin Liners regularly conveyed Bulk Cement and Fertiliser traffic in addition to containers, Dublin-Sligo Liners regularly conveyed bagged cement and Molasses (in tank wagons) traffic in addition to normal liner traffic, sometimes detaching and attaching cuts of bagged cement or molasses traffic at intermediate stations.

001s covered the majority of freight duties, with 121,141,181 increasingly filling in as 001s were withdrawn, O71s covered the majority of main line passenger diagrams until displaced by 201s, 001s covered some passenger duties into the early 1990s including a regular Dublin-Waterford diagram, the Ballybrophy-Nenagh Branch and regularly appeared on Connolly-Rosslare and Enterprise duties.

IE had an acute locomotive crisis in the early 1990s, although the 121 Class usually worked in multiple on main line duties I once saw a single 121s haul a North bound Liner out of Cork followed shortly afterwards by another single 121 on a North bound Fertiliser the Fertiliser was recessed at Rathpeacon (marshalling Yard between Cork and Mallow) and the Liner at Limerick Junction to allow the evening Cork-Dublin passenger to pass.

18 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Sorry Mick, dont know what ACC is and when I tried looking it up got everything from Aberdeen City Council to Automatic Cruise Control and many places in between!

 The thing about PVA is that it doesn't stick to cling film - or more likely it is the other way round - so guess that if you do a test with say a couple of bits of wood clamped together, with cling film and ACC, that will tell you.

Maybe its ACC New Zealands no-fault accidental injury compensation scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporation. 

The paperwork is pretty good for sticking things together, haven't tried it for sticking down ballast though

55 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Are the updated versions of the 20t brakevans part of the 2nd wave of flying snail stencil vans that were released for pre order in January?

No the updated versions of the Brake Vans have revised body detail 1. Timber body with smooth sheeted rather than planked duckets.  2 Plywood sheeted body with pressed steel duckets. The Ply bodied version is unlikely to be available before June 2022

The Flying Snail Vans are in stock and some have been delivered.

13 hours ago, meathdane said:

The Beetles were popular here too.

 

The first ever Beetle produced outside Germany was produced here. In Ballsbridge in the old tram depot no less (possible modelling idea?)

 

They averaged approx 3,000 units per annum until the late 80s, so having an Irish based layout without a bug would be a sin in my eyes!

Popular with dairy farmers with smaller holdings in area such as Cavan. Monaghan, West Cork, North Kerry. A Beetle with a small trailer with 2 milk churns queuing in the morning outside the creamery would have been a common sight up to the mid 1970s

Some positive news going into the New Year.

I am re-introducing the $40(NZ) Economy with Tracking option  for items less than $250.00 (NZ) in value, An Post having confirmed that some items were returned in error as opposed to as a result of a problem with the Electronic Customs Declarations.

Our decal supplier has finalised the graphics for the Standard Open, Covered and Grain wagons and I expect to update the website and make an announcement mid-March once I have received the decals and completed the decorated samples.

The March update will also include a number of new wagons that are currently in the pipeline including 'updated" versions of the 20T Brake Van and additional versions of the "standard" Covered Wagon to help ring the changes and add variety to goods trains.

Scrappage and buy back schemes are more of a financial stimulus scheme for the motor industry which makes a lot of its profit from financing the sale of new cars.

I gave up on new cars about 15 years ago and have since bought 10 year old Honda imports and running them till they stop.

I am not convinced with the argument that replacing low emission petrol vehicles with a 10-15 year service life with battery vehicles when you consider the environmental and social impact of the manufacture of new vehicles and the on-going replacement and disposal of life expired batteries.

Don't forget the Irish made Unilok C-1000e https://www.unilok.ie/c-1000e Battery Electric Rail/Road shunter.

Unilok transferred manufacture from Germany to County Galway in the 1970s and export yard their yard shunters Worldwide.

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

John, what is the wheel profile of the wheels you supply with the brake vans? You may be pleased to hear that the very first item of regauged stock I own is one of your brake vans  I'm using it to push through my first set of 21mm points. I'm using P4 gauges (roller and triangle types) so true 21mm between the rails and at present just judging the flangeways by eye as I practice my technique. I have your turned brass back to back gauges as well as a 3d printed gauge supplied by EDM Models, all 19.83mm.

I'm wondering is it worth replacing the wheels on the baby GMs with EM gauge (I don't intend going as far as P4 throughout as I think I'd regret it on the large layout I have planned). What is the profile of the original Bachmann wheels? The brake van wheels strike me as being a bit narrower and thus maybe not requiring the filing back of the baby GM bogie side frames?

 

The JM Design wagons use Markits blackened brass wheels on 28mm pin point axles to simplify conversion to 21mm Gauge, the wagon chassis are designed with enough room between the axleguards to re-gauge the wagons to 21mm gauge with the existing wheels set with a maximum back to back of 19.3mm.

Markits wheels are closer in profile to the NMRA RP25 110 wheels used by Chinese rtr manufacturers than the finer OO/EMf profile used by other British manufacturers such as Alan Gibson Works and Ultrascale

You may have difficulty in achieving reliable running through pointwork with NMRA Code 110 or OO/EMf wheels set with a B-B set at 19.83mm which is very close to the min B-B for 21mm gauge built to P4 Standards.

It may be a better option to follow Brendan Gashes example and reducing the B-B to 19mm and adapting Double O Gauge Association https://doubleogauge.com/  Intermediate or Fine Standards to 21mm gauge may be a better option to achieve reliable running without having to replace existing RP25 110 wheelsets used in the current generation of high quality rtr models.

The biggest challenge is developing an Irish Broad Gauge track system that appealing enough for the 'average" Irish modeller to consider adapting the wider gauge, developing an "Irish OO"  possibly at 20mm or EM gauge rather than 21mm with OO running clearances would both allow the modeller to build a layout within a smaller space than a layout built to P4 or EM standards without the expense of having to replace the excellent NRMA 110 wheels used with the majority of Irish rtr stock. The slightly narrower gauge both eliminates the need to modify the bodies and chassis to fit broad gauge wheel sets and like OO provides additional running clearance or slop to allow models to run round smaller radius curves than practical in P4 or EM

Using P4 or EM profile wheels was and largely still is the only workable option for steam outline locos in 21mm gauge both as a result of difficulty in achieving adequate running clearance for driving wheels in the majority of Irish steam locos with low running board and splashers and the prohibitive cost of comissioning Markits to produce a 21mm driving axle for their excellent all metal loco driving wheels.

Three of the four British 'fine scale" wheel manufacturers adapted different profiles for OO/EM wheels Markits (formerly Romford) appear to have continued with wheel profiles adapted by the EM Gauge Society and an industry association in the late 1940, Brian Rodgers the founder of Ultrascale developed a finer EM profile in association with Pendon Museum during the 1960s which was later adapted by the EM Gauge Association and currently commercially available through Ultrascale and Alan Gibson Works, Mike Sharman an engineer and esoteric modeller developed an excellent range of finescale driving wheels during the 1970s his OO/EM wheel has a narrower thread than the Markits, Gibson and Ultrascale as a result of which I set the B-B at 19.5mm to achieve reliable running in 21mm. 

The majority of my steam locos are fitted with Sharman wheels at the time very attractive for 21mm gauge as the wheels were supplied with an axle long enough for GWR 7' gauge, you simply cut the axle to length for OO,EM,S4 or 21mm gauge.