jhb171achill

I'm really not trying to slag off Irish Freight Models, as what they do is absolutely fantastic to start with. Secondly, a livery error is easily put right, whereas, if for example they were making a model coach a scale 2ft too narrow, or 10ft too short, that would not be easy to remedy. Hats off to them - or anyone - who takes such an initiative in what is certainly a very small and commercially highly risky market. However - and I veer away from I F M as such now - just to illustrate perfectly why it is so vital for a museum to get a livery right - the RTR CIE goods brake van they advertise has black and white stripes on the ducket. They were always yellow and black, except for one: the Cultra-painted one! Thus, an error by a museum charged with preserving things as they were becomes "fact", like the black-chassis "H" van on the DCDR, or the zebra-like black ironwork "Ivan" at Whitehead. Doubtless, Irish Freight Models copied the Cultra one, and why not - they should have been able to rely on it.

Pm

Original CIE green is on 800 in Cultra, and the background of the "flying snail" logo mounted on a board and on display in Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen. The darker shade used on (a few) steam locomotives, buses, station paintwork, early diesels and carriages painted prior to 1955 was constant, and the above samples are accurate for all such applications. Where shades, or perceptions of shades, enter the fray is with the lighter green shade, which today can be seen at most accurate on C231, G611, and the preserved TPO on the DCDR; also on the RPSI's Dublin based "heritage" coaches.

No probs, Wrenn. If there's anything I find that I don't need I'll "ping" you privately.

It is indeed, GSR800. I'm awaiting the whole thing!

That yellow one (plus it's sister) were bought by CIE second hand from British Rail. I've a motion there might have been a third for spares, but I could be wrong there. They weren't in use for long. Their arrival followed the withdrawal of the older ex-GSWR, ex-WLWR, ex-MGWR send ex-DSER ones, which had very long lives. The GSWR one is at Mallow now, and for that matter the NCC one is at Downpatrick while the RPSI has the GNR one at Whitehead.

Brings back memories. Red rear numberplates, Guinness at 45p a pint, navy and cream buses giving way to the much-derided "desert sand" colour; a bus livery for which I can claim the distinction of being probably the only person in all of world history ever to quite like it...

I suppose that's just another indication of how far "proper" railways go back into history now; it's the very same reason behind a modeller or model producer turning out a fantastic, well researched and well built model - in the wrong colour! But as I said before, it's not for lack of information. There are loads and loads of books showing correct liveries for just about anything that anyone would ever model nowadays.

Wrenn, those are fantastic kits. Yes, I'd be interested in those per se, but my long term interest is Austrian n-g.

Took me a while to work out what "cgi" means! Tis me age.

So - WHEN is enough "enough"? Answer: when you've loads of stuff you know you'll never, ever, use; and you can't take it with you. Sell and enjoy the money or use it for a practical purpose. (Must get all the stuff I have organised for use or sale! Any 009 fans out there?)

I agree too, albeit with great regret. I'm a railway enthusiast, yet - 1. It is years, possibly decades, since I travelled on a train in this country purely for pleasure. 2. In my youth I took about 3000 pictures (few of memorable quality!) on and about the railway. It's years since I've taken one nowadays, and it's also years since I've even brought a camera near a railway. 3. When I go to the west or north, car is my first preference, not the identikit plastic tram-trains, and without intending to offend anyone here, I would class the "Enterprise" in that mode too. 4. I don't know the number sequences or building dates of any of the modern trains north or south, apart from the 071 class diesels. I know nothing of what power plants the locomotives and railcars have, nor do I know what types of couplers they have. Yes, yes, I'm an oul wan, and proud of it! I saw steam, yes, but things go full circle; my very earliest recollection of a steam engine was probably at Westland Row. I didn't know the builder, building date, wheel arrangement, or how it was coupled to its coaches. I was about 3...... (Latterly, I think it was a J15!)

DiveController, yes, that's exactly what I meant. With no livery variations needed at all, it would be just a matter of choosing which variety of the species was best - probably 186, as it would fit into modern image preservation too.

Yes, the whole "Thomas" thing was huge. Excellent for the hobby. I know of many current railway enthusiasts in general, both within and outside modelling worlds, who cut their teeth (perhaps literally) on Thomas, Annie, Clarabel and the Fat Controller....

It's internal characteristics have been changed by its new owners, not just the upholstery! However, in the GSR "Bredin" era, no dining cars were built, just suburban and main line passenger stock in 1st and 3rd classes. (The GSR had abolished 2nd at an early stage). The most modern stock in the 1930-56 period ran with elderly dining cars, a bit like early British Rail days; indeed, on the latter, wooden Gresley-era dining cars were operating with Mk 2's well into the 1970s, clad in modern BR "rail blue" and grey! The 24XX series dining cars as in operation on the DCDR, and also several within the RPSI's care, are from the "laminate" era, but have solid wood framing and sre thus not technically "laminates" themselves. But they are almost the only "modern image" dining cars constructed by CIE prior to the introduction of the first all-steel coaches (Cravens).

Bredin upholstery was the same in CIE days, but was originally dark red, a darker version of the ex-80 class seats on the DCDR inside 3223. Some survived with GSR upholstery well into the 1970s. Bredin coach inside walls were painted a lighting grey quite often.

The Fenit (and Belfast) cranes weren't really like any of those - different design again. "What of it's sister?"........ actually, BOTH sisters have survived. All three are now in the care of the Titanic Trust, one of whose officers I met today at a meeting about canal restoration in the north. The intention is to retain all three, with the best selected for preservation, and the other two being cannibalised if necessary.

Incidentally, Kiltimagh (and Cultra and Clonakilty, for that matter) have taken the very non-museum-like approach to how to paint their historical artefacts. Namely, "ah, sure it'll do, its near enough". As IRM folk will be aware regarding the Kiltimagh coach, it never had a white snail and yellow line! That isn't "near enough", in my book anyway. When people see things in museums, they surely have a right to expect that the thing is properly presented. Any of these errors can be righted easily of course, but why not do them correctly in the first place? It's not as if the information isn't there. Laziness in this very visible aspect of preservation has pervaded every single solitary preservation outfit on this island. As a result, modellers are misled. I have seen numerous absolutely fantastic models wearing "liveries" which have clearly been copied from incorrectly painted survivors in preservation. You'd never get that across the pond; are we, as an island race, colour-blind? Am I, out of interest, the only person who feels that this is something that ALL of our preservation and museum outfits ought to be a great deal more diligent about? Just asking....

Lovely shot, Garfield. The red upholstery is modern, but the black headrests and the rest of the interior sides décor is accurate and / or original. Bredins had both side corridor and open configurations. I think all the laminates as such were open, but some earlier CIE-built stock (1950-55 period) had side corridors and compartments. These looked like laminates but technically were not, as the frames were solid wood, not laminated layers of wood.

I have to say I've many very fond memories of those coaches. They had a very "homely" feel about them. The DCDR's 1918, although currently out of traffic, was my personal favourite type. However, one can still travel in 3223 on the DCDR, which is in the current normal running set.

Funding permitting, full restoration.

Don't know, Garfield. It would be nice if one had survived, but I was at a meeting today in Belfast in which one detail of some non-railway related stuff was the proposed restoration of one of the surviving - and very similar - ones from Belfast docks.

A J15 could be in earlier and later boiler versions, earlier / later cabs, and earlier / later smokeboxes. Original or later tenders would be other variations. With so many variations (look at the RPSI's 184 and 186, how different they are), the manufacturer might need to research which was most saleable, and possibly offer half a dozen separate numbers. There'd be no need for livery variations! Every single one of the class was grey from even pre GSR days until the end. None ever wore green or black, though a single one (possibly 193, I forget...) got a unique livery of grey with a black smokebox almost at the end of steam - probably the only grey engine ever to get a black smokebox.

Kirley, laminates generally had charcoal grey upholstery with a blue fleck through it, black seat tops (antimacassar area), and the interior sides were real or mock wood effect with white ceilings. Internal doors were varnished wood. The bright blue seats on the model shown are completely wrong - no laminate ever had seats in any colour remotely like that, whether in silver, green or black'n'tan days. Incidentally, if you repaint one in silver, remember that roofs, ends and bogies are also silver! And - seriously weather the roof!

I want a turf fired 071.