jhb171achill

I can’t unsee this….

Yes, those are collectors items now. Were they not made by Lima, though? The one in orange and black featured a British locomotive and (I think) French types of carriages - though obviously re-liveried to look Irish…. That model must be 30/40 years old?

Hope you recover fully soon, Tony. The set you have there is of various mainland European prototypes - the carriages bear German lettering and logos. Nothing like any of these ever ran here. Not sure where you'd get spares but if you're anywhere near Mount Temple School in Dublin next weekend, some of the stalls there might have spares bits'n'pieces?

Just wondering where you got the "U T" transfers and numbers - do they come with the kit? The green colour you have used looks exactly like UTA green did on vehicles like this, or secondary carriages, when it was somewhat past its best. It tended to lose its richness after not long in traffic. When brand newly painted, it looked quite shiny and attractive.

Is "MOB" an abbreviation for "Mol_PMB"? Askin' for a friend.....

Regarding the Fry image above showing both pale green and red lettering, a couple of observations. First, the model seeming having gold shaded lettering on a silver coach is inaccurate. None were ever like this. Secondly, both red and pale green were used. I have never been able to ascertain the origins of both; the pale green would be obvious, as it was part of the overall "corporate livery", with lettering the same colour applied to green coaches, flying snails and the like. I suspect the red appeared as an experiment, perhaps being applied only to some vehicles to see if it was more or less noticeable and durable. It's possible certain vehicles had one, while others didn't, but I don't know. While there were silver vehicles still about (JUST about) at the dawning of my memory period, I have no recollection of ever seeing anything silver - locos or coaches. I have a CIE promotional leaflet somewhere for this yoke. There is a semi-colour picture of it, showing pale green lettering. However, the photo above shows lettering which certainly looks darker than "pale" green; so possibly it was the darker green? ...Or, red. The brochure was printed in grey and green, so it might just be the print on that which is green. It went over to Britain, by the way, after its stay here, and ended up in BR maroon!

It probably is, yes. While I was once told by someone (can't recall who, therefore can't comment on accuracy) that at least one TPO was green for a while, (a) this was a BOGIE one, not a four-wheel "tin" type; (b) I have yet to see any photographic evidence of it; and (c) one of our older members here mentioned a few years ago that he did not think any ever were. Downpatrick, like Whitehead and Cultra, are not always known for livery accuracy with CIE-origin stock!

And very well it looks!

A livery query. "BROWN" VANS - OR WHAT? A question for the group, particularly the older members (OK, I'm one too)... The NCC and (early) UTA built large numbers of fitted parcels / mail vans for use on passenger trains from (as far as I know?) the mid or late 1930s up to the early 50s, known to one and all as "brown vans". Now, many other railway companies did the same, most recently the CIE "tin vans" of the 1950s and 60s, some of which saw service almost as late as 1980. From my own memories, plus photographic evidence, vans of any design used for purposes like this tended inevitably to be very much grubbier than the passenger stock they were attached to. I have seen in real life supposedly "blue" British Rail vans during the 1970s - actually painted in "BR Rail Blue", but covered in a thick patina of BROWN brake dust. The NCC vans in later days were painted NIR maroon, but were to all intents and purposes brown. I have found no evidence to determine what colour the UTA painted them, going back a little further, however ex-GNR "V" van, build and used for the same purpose on that system, were painted carriage green by the UTA. Did the UTA paint the NCC vans green too, and if so, is anyone aware of any photographic evidence to back this up? Either way, the NIR maroon ones were inevitably filthy, so brown in appearance - IF the UTA had painted any of them green, this would also doubtless have been covered by a layer of filth. Now lets go further back to when new. It was generally the practice of most railway companies, including the LMS on the Neighbouring Island, to paint passenger train vans in carriage colour (as, also were horseboxes typically). This would tend to suggest they were LMS maroon when new - but again, they'd have got dirty and probably stayed that way. So, my question is this: were the "brown vans" ever actually painted brown at all, and if so when? If brown, did the UTA continue with this or slap green all over them? All we know for certain is that they were painted maroon latterly by NIR - or at least any I ever saw were. Or, were they called "brown vans" simply because they spent their working lives hiding under an ever thickening layer of (brown) brake dust weathering? It must be remembered that even old photographs can deceive about livery details for one thing, and also railway enthusiasts have a habit of making up sometimes uninformed or amateurish "nicknames" for things, which would make any railwayman wince! As my former geography teacher might have said (and he was a railway enthusiast too), "Discuss"! @leslie10646, did these (NCC) vans ever make it onto the Derry Road in your times there?

So - jam? Very much so!

100%

The dim memory of it that I have, Leslie, it looked much the same to me; but I bow to your superior first-hand recollections of GNR matters!

Should have added, I've seen a pic at Macmine Junction of a three-car GNR set on a Rosslare service, with one vehicle in green, one black'n'tan, and the other GNR navy blue and cream... For good measure, a silver tin van on the back.

It’s something to do with the Dart+ project! I can feel it in me bones….

Since they worked out if Amiens St, GNR sets (sometimes still in GNR dark blue & cream) were to be seen quite often on the DSER as well, and as far as Rosslare. It’s at least theoretically possible that due to this fact, they might have reached Waterford too, either by the North Wexford or South Wexford lines, perhaps on a special train.

Mighty stuff, Mol!

It’s possible they might have for pigeons, but I’d say unlikely. The bogie “P” vans would indeed have been preferable.

Leslie, I will take a GNR Y van, if you could reserve one for me. Livery unimportant as it'll either end up weathered GNR livery, or CIE green. Note on liveries; after October 1958, most still in traffic probably stayed GNR coach brown for a while (different from GNR fitted wagon brown), if they were soon to be withdrawn. CIE made little use of them, as they were churning out tin vans at the time at nineteen to the dozen. The UTA were running everthing down. Any that did get a repaint was either in UTA dark green or CIE late 1950s green. I only ever saw one photo of a green CIE one, and it had a snail and waistline as would have been normal for the time - the repaint probably took place 1959/60/61. The "brown van" UTA livery was only on those (ex-NCC) passenger vans. The ex-GNR ones were dark green, the passenger coach livery, I recall seeing one only (in Lisburn). For some years there was the body of one on a farm near Nutt's Corner (not far from Belfast International (Aldergrove) Airport. It was remarkably intact, up on concrete blocks so the floor was dry, used as a shed, still in faded UTA green. There were markings on it to the effect that it was to be used on passenger trains only. It was still there in 1998, the last time I saw it. On a GENERAL note, I too add my sincere congratulations to Leslie's Provincial Wagons. I have a number of H vans, several of the GSWR goods brakes, and a big fleet of cattle trucks. It's fair to say that had these cattle trucks not appeared, there would be much complaint at Dugort Harbour and Castletown West to the GSR at Kingsbridge, on the subject of a lack of vehicles to service the Cattle Mart on Fair Day! Happy retirement, Leslie, and here's to a new dawn of Enda's excellent CK Prints.....

That’s exactly why. Former 1905 railmotor body, I believe. Several ended up in UTA green. At least one ended up in CIE light green with both waistline and snail.

Yes; and, a LEGENDARY one!

SECONDED!!!!

Driving, methinks!

Wow! A MOST interesting model! Didn't know that yoke lasted that long either. Not too many 0.4.2 tender locos about in the late 1940s!

I think exhibitions are gremlin breeding grounds...... but for us mere mortals who go to them to see these spectacular layouts in action, worth it!

Macha was a legendary goddess in Ulster. Tailte was a legendary goddess also. Maedb was a legendary queen. None existed in real life; only one was a "queen". Can we please, please, stop referring to the B1a class as "queens"? They weren't; moreover, railwaymen never referred to them as such......! (Always just "800 class"...)