jhb171achill

No, it's the standard length for many six-wheelers in the mid 1870s - early 80s period. Short six-wheelers (under 30ft) were still to be seen on the West Cork system, albeit rarely in use, into the 1950s. The left hand coach would be 1875-85, probably. Carriage design from early days to the 1890s in Ireland was very different indeed to the Larger Neighbouring Island. When we look at the Genesis coaches, one important thing to remember is that while (as we've seen) their six-wheelers are very like a number of types we hd, especially of GSWR design, the long-wheelbase, but more modern body shape FOUR wheelers seen commonly in Britain were entirely absent in Ireland. Thus, no Genesis long-wheelbase four wheeler, nor any Ratio GWR kit of same, is even remotely like anthing that ever ran here. There were one or two "one-offs" of six wheelers having a centre pair of wheels removed in later years, usually GSR times, but (a) these were exceptions, and (b) long gone before CIE days. In Ireland, almost every railway company went from straight sided yokes like the Ulster Railway saloon at Downpatrick, to equally straight sided SIX wheelers by the 1870s. Very few of the much older four wheelers lasted beyond that, though the MGWR had at least one which lasted until about 1920. However, our early six wheelers had a very ancient body shape, while the British ones were by the standards of the day, fitted with modern bodies. So, if populating an Irish layout with early coaches, six-wheelers are really your only show in town, unless you'd be modelling pre-1880, or certainly pre-1900, and any four wheelers you had would have to be scratch builds of the entirely different Irish prototypes.

Broadly south-east-ish!

Indeed they did. When the wagons were empty, the vans were loaded, when full, vans were empty. Barry and are preparing a Volume 5 in that series now. Historical background research largely complete, photos selected. Hope to get a good bit done on it over the winter.

Wow!! Agree with others that this is a fantastic new burst on the scene! Very well done indeed, love the way it captures different eras 1969-80, and the detail! Whole thing works really well.

This would make sense. Any “snail” applied to anything after 1963 would be a surprise indeed, and probably (if it ever existed) some sort of localised “one-off”. Personally, I’m unaware of any such phenomenon! However, examples of wagons still retaining pre-1963 snails were still to be seen well into the 1970s.

And there you have it. An Enterprise the way I remember; nine vehicles of seven types.

EXACYLY! If anyone has a model Park Royal, eg the old IFM one, as far as I can see its dimensions are correct. It looks like 800 beside 90 when sat beside a SSM (scale) GSWR six wheeler. Same with older bogies. Very much lower roofs than anything built after around 1912/15. One of the many reasons why in the pre-1972 days, trains looked such a mish mash to those accustomed to sleek Mk 2 sets with zero variation. And, the reason why so many of our older enthusiasts would see passenger trains from the 1960s/80s onwards as bland. Never any more than one body shape. Before 1965, you’d go a long way to see a train with even two vehicles alike!

If this is 1964, it must be a special of some sort? Passenger service to Tralee finished a year earlier.......... or is it just parked?

Three times the brand-new price.... some nerve!

The Fry model of Drumm train unit C / D differs from the real thing as it was built off plan, but there were amendments made while the real thing was being built!

NIR is a small area, with less variety (no internal goods trains since before inception and only half a dozen locos) but the “might have beens” like the C classes pulling lignite and so on… or loco hauled trains on the Derry line. So here’s more!

Most interesting!

That one's grey. Interesting that by a very long margin, the oldest coach in the trai8n - is in the then-brend-new livery!

Pretty sure they weren't.

The answers to these questions are as follows. The initial idea behind the green vans was that, being vac-braked, were to be used on Cork-Tralee mail trains, doubtless in place of several ancient 6-wheel full brakes. Initially, there were either 4 or 6 of them - I can't remember. Official CIE records suggest that there was a whiole series of them in green - this was absoluteloy not the case. There were (a) only a very small handful in grey, and (b) they weren't that way too long. Next, that van in a very dark livery. Until about 1960, many older wagons were a much darker grey then the bulk of "H" vans or Palvans were - this is because about that time they started using a much lighter shade. This one could either be that in shadow, or possibly a "local" job in Cork or Limerick with an uncharacteristically darker shade. It isn't green - as standard carriage green was used.

Indeed. In original form, as per recent IRM models, the bpdy was just galvanised steel. They were never painted at all in "single deck" days. The chassis, like those of all CIE wagons before 1970, were grey. Very few ever saw a coat of paint again; any that did had brown paint roughly slopped on them in sugar-beet days, again as per the IRM model of that. In their last days, when double-decked, all brown and all fitted, That's actually the first time the corrugated bodies ever had paint on them - no wonder they just looked like a "dirt colour".

In the wagon world, there were many, many variations of most things - just like locos and carriages, also, in the steam era. Thus, I cannot state as an absolute fact that not a single solitary one of those was ever vac braked, but I would consider it to be exceptionally unlikely. Of course, when they became "double-decked" for beet in much later years, those were vac braked - but on a different chassis.

WOW! Looking forward to seeing this develop!

That is a STUNNING picture. All too often there's little to be seen in BnM photos than turf and tin sheds!

Even with tank engines, crews always preferred chimney-first working. There was no real reason beyond that other than the fact that (fairly obviously!) the weather more often than not is unfavourable to tender-first operation! A former driver, long gone to his reward, told me once of a journey from Sligo to Ennis with empty cattle vans for a fair the following day. For some reason (which escapes me) they had to work tender first and it was rainy and windy. By Tubbercurry he (firing) and his driver were drenched to the skin and shivering with the cold. And they still had to get to Ennis! He was an exceptionally unhappy bunny. Upon dropping the trucks in Ennis, he still had to go light engine to Limerick Junction and bunk overnight - in wet clothes. Into a very spartan bed, and home to Tuam shed in damp clothes in the brake van of the Limerick / Sligo goods the next day. We can look back at this stuff, but ordeals like that - and by any standards, even in austere 1940 or 41, when this happened - it WAS an ordeal. Thank gawd for trade unions and hard-won modern workers rights…. Senior got as far as Killeshandra only once. Time was ticking on and it was a nice enough day. They had a G2 class 2.4.0. Despite a short and leisurely trip back to Cavan, the crew insisted on turning the loco.

Gawd be with the days when it was steam - one of my earliest memories being in a train of GNR coaches behind 207, probably. That’s 207 the Vs class 4.4.0, not the modern thing! For some reason I do remember it sat at Portadown for quite a while. The journey in the other direction was an ex-GNR AEC railcar set with a flickery light above my seat….

Correct.

I think the VERY last two in use (in Limerick - Waterford) were retired in 1994, though of course most were long gone by then. Comparatively very few survived long enough to get the waistline stripe. I wonder how many were actually still in traffic after this was introduced in late ‘87 - can’t have been many.

Yes, they would. By that stage few if any would still be green - most if not all in black’n’tan. They were still about in ‘77 too, and some weren’t far off making it to ‘87! Park Royals of all varieties had a thirty year span 1955-86 in main service, but in addition a small number, chiefly used in late days (when they got the mid-body stripe) formed the Limerick to Rosslare set until the early 1990s. So a handful of them had an almost 40-year life. Plus, in later years, main line and suburban types were indiscriminately mixed on all services. The green livery only 1955-62. 1962-mid/late 70s, increasingly black’n’tan, with green becoming fewer each year. After approx 1967/8, no more in green.

So ICR from Dublin and 3k from Belfast, plus their returns - 3rd train each way?