jhb171achill

I'm a bit late to this party, but here goes: 1. I agree there is no model remotely like "Sambo", but I actually doubt it did go to the mills - I think it was confined to Inchicore Works. I'd be interested to know if it definitely did ever go anywhere else. 2. 00 Works J15, yes. LNER 0.6.0, yes. In the latter case, repainted grey. If you are in GSR times, no black locos and no green ones - every single loco they posessed was plain grey all over, no flying snails either - they only came with CIE in 1945. Cast cabside numberplates, no painted numbers (apart from a handful of suburban passenger tanks). 3. Small industrial-type loco, certainly - I had thought of that too. There were an extremely small number of things like that in reality - Allmans Distillery, Bandon, for one. The little engine of that line ended up being bought by the GSR who slapped a standard numberplate on it, but never repainted it, so it ended its days in barely recognisable badly faded delivery-colour manufacturer's green. (An exception to the grey rule!). 4. Wagons - yes, leslie's are the best option. CIE "H" vans, nice as they are, far too late for GSR era. I have three of the SSM ones - they would be fine, in reality. Overall, I think your era is an excellent one and a great way to start.

Much as I'd love to find a pro-rail flaw in that argument, I'm afraid you have it 100% spot on, unfortunately. I think goods in general is doomed, unless there is a very radical re-think from central government, but this would involve long-term planning, something our successive governments of all parties do not do. It also recalls to mind what, again regrettably, I am increasingly seeing as a vanity project for the last government - Foynes. Still zero potential business for it, and seemingly zero interest.

What they called “tail traffic” in Brexitland was actually very common behind railcars here. Donegal is very obvious, of course, from railcar-day-one, but all over the UTA and CIE, and into NIR days in the north, it was very common, even the norm in certain services. Vans carrying mail, parcels or newspapers - or all - in particular. On CIE, extra coaches, including the 1890s MGWR six-wheelers above, tin vans, goods wagons, horse boxes, the lot.

I would presume so - that was his impression. So much for the green agenda!

And he will blame Bill Clinton.............. Most interesting article, Mr. Rechtsanwalt; very thought-provoking. We are indeed living in dangerous times, with so much pointing to the 1930s. I often feel lucky I'll probably be dribbling tepid soup down my cardigan in a nursing home by the time it fully hits us all.

Always my view, yes. No. 4 was always to me the least attractive preserved engine, but there's no doubt that they were a truly excellent design in most ways (though the injectors often had a preference to water the ballast rather than inject water into the boilere!). Fair to say No. 4 saved the society's bacon several times.

Can you imagine what Mr. Elfin Safety would have to say about that today!

That's some serious traffic at Tara Junction! Maybe a Luas extension is needed there!

Indeed, and while I prefer accuracy myslef, I have a full range of the Hattons yokes, and would be getting any Rapido / IRM ones too - as you say, they give the "feel" of it.

The Genesis coaches were, even within Britain, an "approximation" to many designs of a number of British companies. As mentioned before frequently, British coach design - on any line - was totally unlike anything on ANY Irish line, with very very few exceptions - the most notable of which was an obvious family resemblance between many NCC designs and LMS ones. The Bachmann "CIE" coaches sold with the "Woolwich" loco, for example, are no more like anything that CIE or its constituents ever had, than an ICR is lime Stephenson's Rocket. However, like early Lima BR class 33s sold in orantge and black as a "supertrain", livery decieves the eye, and in the absence of anything else, these thnigs have had to do. However, when the Genesis 6-wheelers came out, by lucky coincidence, this GENERIC British design happened to closely resemble several batches of GSWR stock built largely in the 1890s, but with examples stil;l in traffic into the 1960s. This was when I suggested to them they do a run in Irish colours and supplied them with all the details. I was already supplying them with details for GSR liveries when Hattons shut down. Two of the three GSR liveries would have been appropriate. But that's by the by. The Rapido stuff that's coming out is all non-corridor, thus branch line use. Having examined each model in detail, none are close to anything Irish, but several types give a reasonable family similarity to some Irish coaches, particularly ex-GSWR, and again in the absence of exact scale models, will suit as a convincingly LOOKING Irish vehicle if in suitable livery. One or two even are reminiscent of some of the few wooden-bodied coaches which survived into the black'n'tan era, and by 1972 or so when the last were withdrawn, were largely confined to Youghal summer excursions, Dublin suburban peak hours, Dun Laoghaire boat trains, and northern suburban summer excursions (Donabate, etc). So, one might expect to see both green liveries (1945-55 and 1955-62) plus orange and black. Possibly some in GSR livery? The release of the model of 800 "Maedb" would be well accompanied by some stock - while Maedb is unlikely to ever have hauled anything six-wheeled or non-corridor, given a three-foot rule a train of these Rapido yokes behind one might look nice, especially if interspersed with SSM brass kit "Bredins" or at the very least LMS corridor stock of the 1930s with livery slightly amended to GSR era. Either way, any of these in Irish liveries are certainly likely to be seen at Dugort Harbour! And if Rapido, IRM, or anyone else bring out something like this, all credit to them. I will be certainly supporting the venture.

When I was about 8, Senior gave me all his OWN Meccanno, which was actual original stuff from the late 1920s. Original wooden box too. Wish I’d kept it - probably with a fortune now!

It’s the modern era now on my friend’s layout. An 071 with modern yellow things; nite the excellent Sperry wagon at the end! IMG_3364.mov

It’s 1972. Most wagons are still grey but the new brown livery is beginning to appear, and a good quarter of the loco fleet now stand out among the grubby black’n’tan ones with their new “supertrain” livery…. IMG_3365.mov Now it’s 1966, and A55 awaits the road to go and rescue failed Crossley sister A9……

From a 1947 Meccano magazine. The first of these useful engines had entered traffic the year before, and the last of them in 1950, well into UTA times. The last few would become Ireland’s last operational company-service steam engines in 1970, with the very last one not officially withdrawn until 1971.

An excellent sect to belong to!

Dare I throw in also the fact that many, many vehicles were rebuilt throughout their MGWR career - before the GSR was even conceived - and in some cases to a completely different specification with a new number! And - in some cases more than once.... And - once the GSR took over, this continued! One old 6-wheeled full brake that I know of was rebuilt by the MGWR with its "birdcage" removed, then in GSR days rebuilt again as some sort of unique looking yoke, the bodywork looking vaguely more GSWR-ish than Midland. There was also a six-wheeled passenger brake on the Loughrea line in the 1930s of a design I've never seen anything like. It appears in two old photos, very unclear in both. I'll try to find a pic of it, but it will be in my forthcoming book on the line and I may have already sent the original to the publisher. Not just the MGWR stuff - the GSWR stock was also subject to such vagaries. Couldn't agree more!

“Bet ya two shillings he’ll be late in. Never tries to make up time! And he’s got twenty with the “C” class…” ”Well, we’re stuck here till he does….”

Of use??? It’s a MASTERPIECE! Very well done!

A perfect analogy! I think they were Midland (of Englsnd) rather than LNWR - all the ones at Whitehead were, anyway. Your spreadsheet is a great deal more than most of us could manage, so very great comntratulations - a highly useful historical resource. Park Royals were steel. As far as i know, only the UTA extensively used aluminium to re-panel some old wooden stock in the late 1950s. As for the early 60s coaches, as far as I am aware, and I am relying here on memory rather than documentary evidence. The last two dining cars they built were timber framed and the rest were laminate. Can't remember my source for that info, could have ben Marcus Bailie-Gage (former Dundalk Works Manager), or Bob Clements, though its 25 years or more since I last spoke to him!

Following up, I can't find any pics yet, but I can now recall what I did see. The green one at Downpatrick has a small snail and small number on cabside, and a black chassis frame. This is incorrect, and an unfortunate example of how incorrect liveries in preservation can be copied as if they had been accurate. The photo I saw, some sonsiderable time ago, and possibly in Jim O'Dea's photos, shows one with green frames, and a large number, but no snail, on cabside. It cannot have worn this for long. I think we can eliminate G602 from this, referring to above.

To answer a few of the questions above.... but first, the list suggests six-wheeler 62M was scrapped in 1964. It actually still exists - that's the one at Whitehead. Yes, ex-Midland six-wheelers were far more numerous at the end of the six-wheel era (the last passenger-carrying ones of this type were withdrawn from public service in 1963). They were considered to be better built and more comfortable - both. Both Inchicore and Broadstone used the very best high quality timber, so build quality was not an issue. Many ex-GNR coaches, though, especially made after 1935, were of decidedly inferior timber. That's one of the reasons many older GNR types survived well into UTA times. Yet, if you look at six-wheel passenger brakes, GSWR types there were more numerous - doubtless because passenger comfort wasn't an issue. The Hattons Genesis range were chosen as they closely resemble several "house styles" the GSWR used. In GSR or CIE livery they fit the bill perfectly - and though the MGWR types outnumbered them vastly, there WERE some ex-GSWR six-wheelers in traffic up to the very early 1960s, i.e. pretty much the end of the "6 wheel era". So, at the end, a typical train of six-wheelers, or mostly of six-wheelers, as might have been used on Youghal summer excursions, but pretty much nowhere else, as the last of the type tended to be sent as secondary stock to Cork - would have had mostly MGWR passenger vehicles and an ex-GSWR passenger brake. Two important takeaway points for modellers. 1. There is not one British design of coach with models made of it, either in RTR or kit form, which resembles closely in design ANYTHING that ran here. The Genesis yokes are a generic design, and happen to reasonably resemble some GSWR types (which is why they were chosen) buit for accuracy, there's really nothing British that even closely fits any Irish line, with the exception of a few LMS types that fit as LMSNCC / UTA equivalents. So, for the era we're talking about, the Genesis stuff was well worth having. An LNER, Great Western or Southern Railway coach in an Irish livery just doesn't cut it. 3D print may well solve this difficulty. In particular, and relevant to the above, MGWR design was so unique that not a solitary thing in Brexitland comes any closer to anything Irish than an ICR looks like a Festiniog Fairlie. 2. On the subject of six-wheelers, we'll have noted that only one type was offered by Hattons in black'n'tan. This raises one point of historical interest, and one of operational interest. (a) Only about six full vans survived the complete withdrawal of all remaining operational six-wheelers in 1963. They were largely used to carry mail bags on the Galway line for a few years more. Several were withdrawn in 1964/5, so it's exceptionally unlikely they were repainted black'n'tan, but at least three were. I have seen pictures of these being hauled by 121s, and in a train of varying types of laminates as late as 1967, but not afterwards. A single one was only officially withdrawn in 1970, but a photo of it a year earlier has it looking very woebegone - they were certainbly go ne before the forst Dutch and BR vans entered service. (b) Following on from the above, it is thus incorrect to run a model of a black and tan six-wheel full brake with any green six-wheelers, as the few that got the new livery only did so AFTER the last of the passenger-carrying ones were withdrawn!

A good question. I'm unaware of th existence, either now or in the past, of any single definitive list which would give such details, but coaches taken out of public use but retained in traffic for internal or departmental use, were re-numbered in a completely different series, with an "A" suffix, so there should have been something. I would not be confident that of such a thing has survived, its date accuracy would be 100%, because you could have a coach set aside for withdrawal, and actually derelict before official withdrawal, and maybe earmarked for scrap but at the last minute resurrected "sure, that one will do!" as a PW van or somethinbg, with just the seats ripped out. Numbers were unrecognisable. So, suppose you've two ex-MGWR carriages,numbered 36 and 37 by the Midland, then 36M and 37M by the GSR & CIE, these could well become 239A and 442A as depertmental vehicles. All in all, not an easy one to pin down. We can just go by whatever individual examples we know of.

Surely it's heading to Belfast. The lights are wrong; that would be the back of the train on that line. The airport is on the down side of the railway. The main road, which that long passenger bridge crosses, is behind the shelters shown on the down side.

I am afraid I do not know any source for this beyond details as shown in Ernie Shepherd's MGWR history and the IRRS-published GSR carriage lists. These give details of withdrawal dates for carriages, but one thing it doesn't give is where a coach was wiothdrawn from PUBLIC service, say, in 1959, but used as a PW department tool van or staff coach for some years afterwards. Perhaps Seagoebox of this parish might be able to elaborate on the latter?

He’s correct on that one. I saw it when I was a young child. Even then I’m not sure it was still in use. Clifton is probably the greatest living expert on Dublin trams.