jhb171achill

Heirflick, you'd be welcome. There were comments on these boards about a day for IRM-boarders at the DCDR when arrangements can be made to view / measure / photograph items of rolling stock including those not normally on display to the public, or in sidings in out of the way places. Obviously there are issues re walking on track on operating days etc, and other H & S issues, but at some stage in the summer I would offer my services to take a guided tour of the place to anyone interested, as I had intimated before. I can arrange transport for small numbers from the greater Dublin and Belfast areas with the co-operation of the DCDR's Operations Officer and a friend of mine, a DCDR member who lives in Dublin. The idea would probabloy be (and I'm just jotting this down off the top'o'me'ead) a pick-up at Central Station and also somewhere in Dublin, with (seating permitting) a pick up in Drogheda / Dundalk / Newry areas, and on to Downpatrick. The cost would be sharing the petrol plus an all-day ticket on the railway, maybe €15-€20 a head? Drop back in evening. As I say, if something broadly along those lines appeals to a sufficient numb er of people, myself and the others mentioned above would be pleased to organise. Post a few thoughts here, if interested, about what you might like to see or do, and we'll see what looks feasible.

Correct, Eiretrains. I remember seeing wagons parked there in v early 1970s - prob dropped off from Mayo for further south, or vice versa.

many thanks, gentlemen!

Folks Back in the days when cobbled motorways were in black and white, there was a firm called K's in ngland who made white metal kits of (for the day) an amazing array of locomotives - all, fairly obviously, of British origin; mostly pre-BR. It occurred to me even then that many would lend themselves to kitbashing to make up Irish prototypes. I had one of their catalogues for years but must have discarded it a long time ago. Does anyone know anything about this firm, its kits, or what became of either?

Gents Just shows you what there is out there. I am gathering unpublished colour stuff for future projects at the moment, and would be keen to hear from anyone with colour stuff post 1955 from anywhere. The next two projects I am working on are both broadly "west-based" but I plan more in the long run. Among nice stuff I have recently is a shot of the Enterprise, consisting of a black'n'tan 141 hauling green coaches of ex-GN origin past Portadown about 1962... also there is one en route to me showing an ex-GN AEC set on an all-stops GVS - Portadown with the leading car in UTA green, wasp striped at front, the middle coach in new NIR maroon and grey, and the last car in the short-lived UTA blue and cream for the ex-GN line..... Regarding the whereabouts of books, the RPSI bookstall will have a good selection on the tour in 2 weeks.

I wonder if a production run could be done of an AEC set, a 70 or 80 class set, or a NIR CAF set?

A party visit to Downpatrick would be fine, and I will assist in organising it if anyone's interested. There are two ways of looking at it. One is just to savour it as an operating railway on a working day. The other is to take the view that the primary objective is photographing and measuring what's there for modelling purposes. If the former, obviously it wouldn't be as easy for a model maker, as access to track and sidings would be somewhat restricted due to trains operating. On the other hand, there's nothiong quite like sitting in a first class compartment in a 1924-built GSWR coach heading out across the marshes towards Inch Abbey! I suppose that preferences can be expressed here. It takes about two hours from Dublin. An hour to Newry, then an hour over the Mourne mountains. Alternatively, there is an hourly bus from Belfast in each direction for those coming from there. If the prevailing opinion is that a non-operating day is preferred, I should be able to act as guide most Saturdays. If you prefer an operating day, there will be trains on both bank holidays, using either a G class or A class loco. Normal summer operations start mid June. For planning purposes, the timetable is: Downpatrick 1400 1445 1530 1615 1700 Inch Abbey 1410 1455 1540 1625 1710 Inch Abbey 1420 1505 1550 1635 1720 Downpatrick 1430 1515 1600 1645 1730 In addition, empty stock movements leave Downpatrick at 1230, returning light engine at 1300 ex inch Abbey; also light engine (probably a G) leaving Downpatrick at 1740 to bring empty stock back from Inch. There is also now the Carriage Gallery to look at. No. 90 is in there right now, along with several carriages. The TPO is in there at present.

Gareth - I'll be working on the RPSI May tour the whole time, if you're on that. I know several people here are planning to go on the Friday diesel run to Portrush anyway. And thanks for your comments which I have also relayed to Barry! We are hoping to get a follow-up to "Rails through the west" in about a year's time. This will also cover the "Black'n'Tan Era" and on up to the present day.

The Albert Quay terminus was but one of several little-known black'n'tan era survivors, with sometimes obscure goods workings. Crossmolina siding, Coolnamona, North City Mills, Castlemungret, Silvermines, and so on.... ten points for whoever gets a complete list!

Very good indeed. Is this the same person, I wonder, who has that G scale "C" class featured here a few days ago?

Heirflick, you'd be very welcome. I would say to anyone though, if you let us know before you arrive we can be better prepared to make your visit worthwhile. The TPO is in original condition and will remain that way. Internally, all fittings remain, though it has had temporary partitions added to allow use as a Grotto for a guy in a red suit who comes each December to the railway! Externally it is in 1955-1961 lighter CIE green.

Wow! Selwyn Johnston (Headhunters / Enniskillen Railway Museum) would be VERY interested in that.

BosKonay, such a thing could well happen. The RPSI has enough carriages to make up a wooden / Park Royal / laminate rake in green - and in fact, most of its "heritage" set based in Dublin is already in the later post-1955 lighter green, snails and all. 461 is also in green with snail. At Downpatrick,one of the current running set (brake genny 3223 of 1956) is in the later version of the dark green, snail an'all. Downpatrick also has four other bogie carriages, and two unrestored six wheelers, as well as one six wheeler being restored, and a TPO and din ing car - all of which could authentically wear CIE green of either shade. That said, it is current DCDR policy to paint carriages as they would have been when new, i.e. GSWR livery for a coach of that company, and so on. That said, of the list above,many were new to CIE and therefore even with that policy will eventually be green. A detail: one of the above is Park Royal 1944. Because of the ridge along the bodyside Park Royals didn't have the snail, and were always in the lighter green as they were only being built when it replaced the dark green.

I'll try to reply to all. First, to Hidden agenda and A class 007, many thanks for your comments. I will tell BC that you were asking for him. (I'm on phone to him tonight). Freight and Mallow-Waterford... yes, we have discussed both of these, as well as three other long term potential projects, though the main thing I'm trying to get finished now is one on Galway - Clifden. As far as freight is concerned, the follow up to "Rails Through the West", while not specifically aimed at freignt, will feature a lot of it 1965 - 1985. Yes, trains, lines and stations WERE much better kept in those days; I remember an English enthusiast remarking to me once on a May RPSI 3-Day Tour about 1980 "You nevere ever seem to see a dirty loco in this country". This surprised me as I had assumed that British Rail would be the same, but apparently it was anything but. Moving on to Mallow and Waterford, Barry's collection doesn't really cover this route at all, though I would not rule that out for a future date, using other collections if I could get the right stuff, and the right locations. Finally, to Loughrea. I never heard of double heading "G"'s and I doubt if it happened. It might have been tried as a one-off, as indeed it has been at Downpatrick, but it is not satisfactory and runs a great risk of broken couplings. I could imagine one towing another dead, running light, but that would hardly be a common occurrence. Mayner, you were right in saying one was regularly stabled in the shed at Loughrea, but there was rarely a goods train as such; the timetable provided for one mixed train and two passenger trains per day - a long standing "standard" on many branch oines to such an extent it can be taken as a standard type of operation for a typical fictitious Irish branch line layout based in any period from the start of railways to the branch line pogroms from the '50's to 1975. Correspondents of mine, and my own observations on the only occasion I ever went by train to Loughrea, suggested that the spare G at Loughrea fulfilled three functions: (a) literally that, a spare loco. (b) Shunting. © The occasional "overload" goods, as allowed loads for G class locos were understandably small. When any heavy traffic was called for, e.g. a fair day cattle trains, what usually happened was that an A or C came in. I have seen a single pic, and only quite recently, of a 141 with a 2-coach passenger train in Loughrea. The one time I went, in the closing days of October 1975, the train was a re-engined "C" class and the usual single coach. The upholstery in it was the then-current mock-leather light brown plastic bus seat type, and someone had written on one of the seats in black biro "Farewell to the Dunsandle Express".

Amazing. I always thought if I ever got time, a 00 gauge West Cork layout would be a dream come true, but a G scale West Cork in the garden.... wow. Live steam Bandon tanks, ex-MGWR 0.6.0 tank engines, No. 90, C class diesels, AEC railcars and elderly 50ft bogie coaches and six-wheelers, all against a backdrop of beet wagons in sidings......

Seamus - very many thanks, and I will endeavour to live up to future expectations! Barry and I will be doing one follow up to this, and there are a few more ideas in the pipeline, several involving (I agree) the golden age of black'n'tan.... My own earliest forays out into the main network away from base, as it were, would have been in those now far-off days.... One for the livery / weathering specialists to model - a GNR covered van (as I once saw in Rock St, Tralee), in CIE grey livery, CIE broken wheel on it, and a standard cast numberplate with "N" after the number... and a large "G N" beginning to show clearly through well worn CIE grey paint....

I would point out that arangements can be made to view / measure / photograph locos and stock at Downpatrick by prior arrangement. For those who haven't been, the following can be seen there, and in positions to be given a once-over by modellers: Locos: A, E, G, B141, O & K steam, RPSI No. 3, and GSWR No.90. Railcars: NIR's BREL railbus, RB3. Coaches: CIE park Royal, TPO, 24xx series dining car, laminate brake standard, laminate brake genny, BR genny van. Plus GSWR high and low roofed coaches, the sole surviving 70 class driving trailer, BCDR coaches of three types. There is other stock there but not fit to be examined, e.g. items shrink wrapped in plastic sheet pending restoration. Among the wagons, NCC "Brown Vans", NCC goods brake, NCC open wagons, a tank wagon and a breakdown crane. I hope this is of use to anyone modelling any of the above.

John, that's superb stuff as always - you must have a VAST (and fascinating) collection now.

The RPSI's Charlie Friel is also an expert (probably the leading one) on all matters GNR. He has done many talks on such things, most recently a fascinating one in Belfast about Portadown and environs. Check out the RPSI's annual "winter meeting" season for monthly meetings in Belfast. The next lot will start probably in September.

That tale was also often told of Dundalk Works! However, evidence on the ground indicates that neither of NIR's two blue colours, nor GNR blue, was anything like as unreliably consistent as such a policy would probably result in... As well as that, the infrequent repaints of these locos and the small numbers of them makes any livery change almost a unique one! (e.g. (8)113).

Anthony - yes, Goraghwood does seem to have been ignored more than it should. There is a pic of it in a book published by the IRRS some years ago, though it's a small black'n'white. Some of the Colourpoint and Midland Publishing (Tom ferris) books have pics of it too. Track plans etc might be avaliable in the IRRS archives in Dublin, if you are an IRRS member. If not, i would very much recommend joining, as the photographic collections they have are invaluable to modellers. I had a quicklook just now on the internet and right enough, can't see a lot there... If you are an RPSI member, there are some other members who have photographic collections andif you were to ask for somthing specific they might be able to help. I will keepwhat you say in mind and ask one particular member on the May Tour. But do remind me afterwards!!! And thank you again for your comments re the book... I'll relay all this to Barry, whose ears must be burning by now!

By all means, Anthony. Anything that anyone wants I can research if I don't know; as I said, I have access to enough information for most things. The one thing I might be scant on is exact dates when a particular loco or coach 9or anything else) FIRST got such-and-such a livery, but if one was modelling, say, a period in mid 70s, and wanted five 141s ontheir layout, it would be fair to say that three would be brand new "supertrain livery" and two would be black'n'tan; oneperhaps very shabby looking, the other not too bad. But which loco numbers? A purist would need to look at an IRRS journal,for example,of the period to see that loco 14X was one livery, while 14Y and 14Z were another. But i would have the details of how they were painted. If you know what i mean. If I get time over the next while (though the May Tour is approaching, and the DCDR accounts have to be finished!) I will try to get details of CIE diesels from B113/4 up to 071s put together insome sort of fashion suitable for a reference table. As and when I find info about anythiong unusual pertainingto an individual loco I will add that. Steam likewise; I have details somewhere of exactly which steam locos CIE painted black; there were only a dozen or maybe 20 altogether, and anything painted black was well past 1950. I also have details of which locos were painted green. Not just immediately to hand but I can dig it out. Coaches - same sort of concept. There were four variations of the green livery, three of them pre 1955, and several exceptions notably on the West Cork system. In black'n'orange/tan days there were minor variations and interesting details, such as the fact that only a very small handfulof six wheelers ever got the black and tan livery, and all thus treated were full brakes. Wagons throw up interesting details as well, such as a standard CIE covered "H" van in all over dark green at one stage (not sure why!). We also have examples of vehicles "skipping" a livery, such as ex-GNR brake third 114 (formerly in RPSI ownership, may be scrapped now(?)). That coach was the last passenger carrying vehicle to carry GNR brown/teaky livery, lasting thus to about 1966, when it was painted directly into orange and black, never being green. So if anyone has thoughts, suggestions, or enquiries, feel free......

Many thanks enniscorthyman, that was one of my favourites too! I think of all of them, (and it's hard to pick a "best" out of barry's very high quality stuff!), my overall favourite is the goods trains crossing at Swinford and the trains crossing at Ballycar. All very workaday stuff, in the Indian Summer of the "Black'n'Tan" era. And here a story. As a mere nipper, I was taken by my dad to Kildare signal cabin. He knew the signal man and probably wanted a break from a family gathering in my grandmother's in Athy. While we were there, a train came rustling through, and the conversation went like this between Senior and the signalman... Snr: "Oh, is that one of the new engines?" (a grey 121) Signalman: "Yes" (Train whishes past - all coaches green bar the very last one in freshly painted orange and black) "Oh, and that's the new carriage colours" "Yeah... ye'd think we'd seen the last of the black'n'tans....." Good oul dry wit!

Looks good, ttc. I like the 2700 and locos sitting behind it like Drogheda and Limerick always were till just a couple of years ago... Was in Limerick station immediately pre-railcar. Stood at platform end watching a 141 shunting one BR van, then one Craven, and two trains sitting in the platforms, one would have been for Ballybrophy, the other Waterford or Rosslare, where it would reached about two days after leaving Limerick, weather permitting (thought that's another story!). I thought that would make a great basis for a layout too.......

I saw that layout a few years ago, alongside Belturbet at the Bangor show. Both are superb layouts, very realistic.