jhb171achill

It was indeed at that time they came in and yes, they were to be seen in the same rake, albeit not that often. The "Galway" liveried ones also ran mixed in with others of normal orange and black livery. While I never saw all three variants in the same train, there is no reason why it shouldn't have happened. Back in the day, a train could have Park Royals, Bredins, several types of laminates, along with Cravens in the same train - but that's another story.

Is that an Australian train in the pic above?

So there I was, sitting in the usual 24xx "laminate" dining car, having my dinner off the usual bent-edged tray, with dribbly teapot, cup and saucer; no plastic Costa Coffee cups in those days. It was lashing down. Pouring for the third day in a row, and carting myself about the countryside on a runabout ticket meant a dash across a platform to a connecting train or bus, with no chance of taking photographs. In any event, I could just afford maybe one 36 exposure film a week with my pocket money - and that didn't include posting it to England to have it developed. I was treating myself: full dinner was over £3, but a steak on a moving train is only inferior as a life experience to a pint of Guinness on a steam hauled one, so that was that. The quarter light of the window above me was dripping, as were others, and across the aisle there was a drip from the ceiling onto an unoccupied seat. We must have been hurtling towards Athlone, as at Ballinasloe our "A" class slowed, stopped, and picked up a passenger who, let us say, was of somewhat rural background. He was also three sheets to the wind; sozzled, gee-eyed, away with the drink, frolicking in the meadows with the Sweetie Mice. He tottered to the seat opposite and sat down heavily, oblivious to the constant drip on his shoulder. Out came the pipe, which he lit up. Along came the Tickets-Please man. "Ye can't smoke that in here. Ye have to go to the smokin' carriage". "Wha?" "I said, ye can't smoke that here. This is the dining car, you can't......" "Wha? Do I look like in in de dining car? I'm not *** eatin anything!" "I told ye. Ye CAN'T SMOKE IN HEAR. YE HEAR ME!" "I'll **** smoke wherever I **** like, ye little *****!" At this, the Rural Gentlemen stood up, took off his jacket, and rolled up his sleeves. I turned to look ouit of the window, admiring the grey rain pouring out of a grey sky onto barely visible grey turf bog, as we sped through eastern Co Galway. The guard retreated, collected his thoughts, and came back, "If ye don't put that ***** thing out NOW, I'm stoppin' the train at Athlone and I'll get ye ****ed off the train where ye belong. Right?" The rural one ignored him, and smoked his pipe. At Athlone, the guard reappeared with a different type of guard. Or Garda. This time, Rural one was civil, though still slurred.... a somewhat more muted conversation ensued, and he completed his journey to Dublin with his pipe in his pocket. Up front, the "A" purred away, speeding its motley selection of half a dozen laminates and Park Royals eastward through Athlone and Mullingar, and finally Westland Row; sorry, Pearse. Our pipe smoking friend still never noticed the dripping......

Simple; he was just on the turntable. Lucky he didn't fall into the pit.....

I remember it well! Whitehead, back in the day... A few well known now late middle aged men in view.....

I'm actually beginning (just about!) to prefer that all-grey to the black and silver! Probably mostly because there's less yellow....

From an old diary: Saturday: Cork with (brand new) 071. Sunday: Belfast with 060 (A60). Monday: Sligo with a pair of 121's (numbers not recorded), returning with 133 + 135 (cab run as far as Dromod in leading 133). Tuesday: Cork again with a pair; 121+ unidentified 141, out to Coph and back with 155, cab run. Wednesday: Limerick with unidentified A class, bus to Tralee, and return with 020 (A20) as far as Mallow, then an 071 back to Dublin. On another day, footplated 077 to Cork, came back with another 071, sat in laminate dining car 24xx series, had a well done steak, chips, dessert, tea (from a dribbly pot) on the 17:30 to Heuston, which loaded to 10 bogies and two four wheel "tin vans". Then A class 010 (before it was destroyed in the crash at Lisburn!) to Wexford, 008 back. And a run to Howth with 209 (C class) and a set of ricketty de-engined, plastic seated push-pulls. About a week later, a run from York Road to Coleraine in a 70 class; the driving trailer was leading and the train was trying to make up time. I have never, before or since, had such a lively run on a train anywhere in the world! Then a run along Lisburn - Antrim in a single car MPD - the line had just been re-opened. It was to be the only time I travelled in an MPD. It might have been No. 64 or 65 - not sure. I noted that it was some five years since my last journey in one, which had seen me taking an ex-GN railcar set in black'n'tan to Dundalk, changing there into a similar set, but in NIR livery.... The CIE ones had unusual circular neon light bulbs, while the NIR ones had straight ones! At Portadown, three drunk young men got on and spent the rest of the journey singing offensive sectarian songs.... Those were the days. Apart from the songs, wouldn;t it be great to have a little of it back!

Interesting! So that confirms it. Maybe the railways of Antarctica will adopt the MGWR coat of arms next! :-)

In relation to how common these were, they were more common probably than any other type! But CIE embarked on a programme of building their standard ones in the 50s, and as Mayner says, anything deemed non-standard by Inchicore was the first to go. One van, Timoleagure & Courtmacsherry No. 5, did make it to the closure of the West Cork system (and for those interested, in battered weathered all-grey; no stripes of course). The above type was to be seen on goods train into the late 60s on occasions, but I would not think after that.

That's in Head Hunters in Enniskillen. The paint on all those crests is original railway company stuff. I can vouch for the ancestry of the excellent collection in Head Hunters Railway Museum there, which is well worth a look. That particular "snail" was presented to the original owner by the DUT Co. Thus, the paint is one of the few genuine examples of the exact green used by the DUT - and CIE - until the lighter green came into use in 1955.

That would seem most likely. The story of how DUTC got it is widely quoted by reliable sources; thus it does indeed seem the Dutch copied it from either DUTC or early CIE. Done'n'dusted!

If they had it in the 1940s, I suppose either the Dutch could have copied it from the DUTC (rather than CIE), but equally the DUTC could have copied it from the Dutch. If the Dutch bus livery turns out to be pre-1941, then the DUTC have directly copied it from the Dutch - thus the original theory about the London Transport origin needs considerable amendment. Could the Dutch have based their design on London, followed by CIE copying it? Either is possible, but the London Transport theory has wide currency.

I wonder where they got it from, and when? CIE adopted it directly from the Dublin United Tramways Company, who had introduced it about 1941. The DUT based the design on the London Underground "bar and circle" device, still used today - possibly one of the longest running corporate identity logos in the world?

Maybe it would, Broithe - I was just guessing. Maybe HO would actually be a better base for Irish modelling!

I have to say I can't remember a change of logo, but when new they were painted white on the actual tank bit, with dark green below (bogies also, I think), and an orange stripe perhaps a foot thick along the waistband of the tank. The white weathered fairly quickly with brake dust to look creamy coloured or light brown.

I wonder has any scratch builder ever put together a layout using conventional 00 gauge track, but with models scaled down to maybe 3.5mm to the foot in order to make 00 gauge track accurately represent 5ft 3?

Indeed, Warbonnet! Sometimes it seems April 1st all the time! :-)

Excellent pics!

That brake van is of GSWR origin, probably 1910-ish era but I am not sure. In terms of livery, no brake vans were brown at that stage, nor were any striped. They were grey all over; roof and chassis included. The black paint on the preserved NCC one at Downpatrick and the "Ivan" one at Whitehead are not historically accurate. The livery on the plough van at Downpatrick is entirely fictitious; with GSWR lettering it should be dark grey or all over black. If lettered for GSR or CIE, grey - though post 1970-ish it would have been brown all over, chassis included, under CIE ownership. To go back to CIE vans and livery details, the grey began to be relieved by stripes in the mid 60s. From about 1970 or so (can't be certain of exact date), brown with stripes began to be used by CIE. No goods brake vans were ever all brown without stripes. Contrary to what you can see in the UFTM at Cultra, the stripes were always yellow and black, never white and black. In fact, most unfortunately, not one item in Cultra which has been painted by UFTM has an accurate livery - but that's for another day! As far as I can tell, CIE never painted stripes on any vans which were not of the "modern" standard CIE design, nor were any painted brown. Thus, any old steam era brake van is all grey, and probably also needs to be well weathered to look right!

There is indeed an arrangement for the DCDR to take a 2 car 80 at some stage; this should go ahead but cannot be said to be definite until nearer the time. DCDR will not be taking a Castle Class; it has neither been offered one nor, it has to be said, does the DCDR want one!

He's got Lough Swilly stuff, Cavan & Leitrim, Blessigton tram, you name it; not so much main line though - was probably too familiar! I confess never to having photographed a 201 or any of the modern railcars, north or south, in me life.... nor a LUAS... nor an 071 since they were brand new.... nor a Mk 2, Mk 3 or Mk 4 coach.... oul fuddy-duddy, me.

Yes, but it's not the same glue I normally use. I think it must have come from Inchicore instead of Broadstone.

If I ever get time, Heirflick; and with the May Tour starting in the morning, it ain't going to be soon! There actually is a point here. When I reflect on what I have been lucky enough to see, and what those now in their eighties onwards tell me that they have seen, it is just staggering how much the railway (or what's left of it) has changed. I am currently going through stuff of Senior's which includes such gems as a run on the footplate of one of the Lough Swilly tender engines in the 30s - I am currently getting his photos of it developed. Once I get several hundred of his stuff done, I will talk to him about what bits I don't recognise. Never mind my own experiences, people that age (94 in his case) have certainly some stories to tell. Another of his relates to encountering the Fintona tram for the first time, again about 1937, and of taking the train to Bessbrook, cycling to Newcastle, and footplating the BCDR to Belfast in time for the last GNR train back to Amiens Street...

I'll see you tomorrow, Snapper! Looking forward to it as ever. But Guinness won't be 40p, like on my first....

Aaaargh!! Even in my far off travels of which I write, ah never saw such a sight.