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John Allen was considered a pioneer in his day particularly in the development in scenery and photography. The layout was mainly a stage for him to take beautiful photographs. John died in 1972 and the layout was destroyed in a fire shortly after. A more modern emphasis in layout design is an American track planner called Bill Beranek. Among the principals he espouses are: Walk Along Mainlines Narrow Shelves Long Mainline or Branch-line Runs Trains Traveling Through Scenes Once View Blocking Peninsulas Staging Yards (both hidden & open) Prototypical Operations It’s worth watching him on YouTube, you will learn a lot. Even if you have a lot of space it does make sense to start with something smaller and incorporate into a larger later. It has taken a year for me to get my layout to get to the operational stage, i.e. baseboard built, track laid and wired but no scenery yet. I retired a few years ago but would never have found the time to get that far while I was working.

From what I have seen on Youtube and from being a suscriber to Model Railroader in the past is that the americans either have huge layouts in their basements operated by a gang of people or short lines but still with operating potential. Here Dugort Harbour and Patricks layout before he had to dismantle it are closest to that concept. A single track branch with multiple stations. Scenic developement on both are way above anything I hope to achieve. The initial Castle Rackrent terminus was small but every siding and every spot had a purpose so at exhibitions the passenger train didn't just shunt back and forward. Wagons were spotted at the dock, the mill the good siding etc. He used home made Jackson couplings. The big advantage of a smaller layout is that you can change era just by changing the rolling stock. From 1900 up to the mid 1970's the railway infastructure hardly changed at all. Track layouts, signalling, buildings in a station could be set in 1900 or 1970 or even 1980, when a branch line closed the junction track layout hardly changed and often the stub was used for storing old rolling stock. The only thing that was substantially different was the rolling stock. From the mid 70's on things did change substantially with CTC, Railplan 80 etc. Before Paddy and IRM arrived on the scene I bough a large amount of american HO equipment as I was not happy with the running qualities or Hornby or Lima. It would be a huge job to change but maybe some time in the future the W&DJR will become the Denver Terminal and I can watch my Californial Zeypher leave Union station and head up the front range. Rule number one!

Following on from my latest post in the layout section I thought a general discussion on layout operation would be interesting. Has anyone else on the forum got a layout that has more than one station and runs prototypically based operating sessions? Does anyone go to operation sessions on a friend’s layout? Are people interested in model railway operations? I love models of any type, ships, planes, cars etc but there is something about model trains that has been etched into my DNA by my grandmother who bought me my first train set at six years of age. I love looking at them, but I also love that model trains can run on a model railway layout. One of my heroes was the late Richard Chown. Richard was an Englishman living in Scotland who modeled Irish railways. His 0 Gauge Castle Rackrent layout was amazing, The layout was based on an imaginary branch of the WL&WR that connected with the MGWR and set around 1900. The layout was a single track main line with multiple stations and two branches one to the MGWR and a market branch. During the 1970’s and 1980’s he would take various parts of the layout to exhibitions. Even at exhibitions it was always operated in a prototypical manner with block signals and bell codes. Later on he built a house with a big enough basement to set up the whole layout on a permanent basis. He used to hold operating sessions regularly and could keep up to 12 operators busy. I was lucky enough to see the whole layout in operation at one of his famous Ceilidh’s and had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the hall. Scenery was important to him as well but secondary to operation. Another layout I was lucky to see in operation was Sam Carse’s County Donegal layout. This was purely operational with 3 rail Hornby 00 track but with hand built rolling stock. Sam also operated using bell codes and block working. I assume that the biggest constraint is that anything more than a branch terminus takes up a lot of space. I am lucky that part of the deal when we downsized was my garden room.

The layout is designed primarily for operation. I am currently drawing up a draft sequence timetable based on the rolling stock that I have collected over the last twenty years, what is expected to be produced soon and CIE operating practices from the 1980’s. This is the operation schematic North Staging Junction Mine Yard South Staging Branch Terminus Passenger Terminus Locomotives I currently have 2 x 001 class, 2 x 071 class, 2 x 121 class, 3 x 141 class, 1 x 181 class, 1 x Hunslet which is probably not enough so I am eagerly awaiting the production of the C class from IRM in supertrain livery. I have nine staging tracks, I hope this is enough but it may not be possible to run every train in each operation session. Passenger trains Mk2 6 coach max train length Mk3 6 coach max train length Branch passenger Dutch van plus 2 max - length GSV plus 3 Weekend extra GSV plus 5 max Special Hunslet plus 6 NIR mk2’s Future Night mail? One train based overnight in Belview passenger station, one train based in north staging, Branch train to include morning and evening through workings from Branch terminus to Belview passenger station. The NIR train will substitute for the mk’3 until they are available from either Murphy or IRM. Through Trains Ballast Van plus 9 laden hoppers plus van North to South or vise versa If stopping to drop ballast will need Engineering possession As it is always laden it will run in one direction only using one of the middle staging tracks Tara Mines 8 wagon train North to South and return Lisheen Mine 8 wagon ‘dickie tara’ North to South and return Gypsum Train Up to 12 laden hoppers Dublin to South Esso train 8 tanks plus barrier north to south and return Loose coupled trains Beet train Up to 10 wagons plus 30 ton van pick up from Branch Terminus and Junction and on to south staging and return empty. PW train Pallet vans H vans flats lomac and opens plus 30 ton brake van Dublin to any station to pick up or drop off materials Oil Train 3 wagon plus van South to loco shed . In the short term these wagons are being used for supplying the Magnesite plant. Liner trains Mixed Liner 6-9 2 axle wagons Pallet cement, sundries,fertilizer,containers North to Junction and Belview yard. Container train 6-8 bogie flats North to Belview yard and return Bulk Cement train 7-10 wagons North or South to Junction and return Fertiliser train 6 bogie wagons North or south to Belview yard and Junction Dolomite 6 laden wagons Quarry to Drinagh 6 empty wagons Drinagh to quarry In the short term the gypsum hoppers will substitute for dolomite wagons. Laden and empty wagons will be restaged before each operating session. Magnesite & oil 6 plus 3 laden Drinagh to south 6 plus 3 empty South to Drinagh To run the above trains I am only short a Mk 3 set, a GSV, a few extra Cravens or Park Royals, pallet cement wagons, 20’ CIE oil tanks, another 30 ton brake van and a few extra locos.

To me, Dart Underground, four tracking to Malahide, a spur to the airport and extending the Luas from Finglas to the Airport would probably cost a lot less and make more sense than the Metro as currently planned.

The same train passing through the junction while the branch passenger waits in the bay platform.

Tracklaying is now complete. As with the previous layout I used Midwest cork roadbed glued to the plywood baseboard. The Peco track is then screwed to the cork using 6mm x 1,2mm screws bought on Temu. Most of the track is reused from previous layouts. Indeed most of the electrofrog points are at least 30 years old. Droppers recycled from telephone wire are soldered to the rail and connected to a ring main of 1.5mm square recycled household wiring using clip on connectors. I am reusing the Roco multimaus DCC controller. The finished track plan is almost identical to the above sketch. The oil siding is now a carriage siding and doesn’t extend into the corner. The crossover on the main line in Belview is facing rather than trailing and only one siding for bulk cement at the Junction. I have unboxed most of my Irish rolling stock that I have accumulated over the last twenty years. I am enjoying test running my sound equipped Hunslet and all the other stock. I have never got around to doing any scenic work on any of my previous layouts so now I have many buildings to assemble and scenery to build. The first area I will try is the end baseboard where the bridge and the quarry are situated. As the main focus of the layout is operation as opposed to scenic accuracy, my first priority is to devise a working timetable for the layout and available rolling stock that would be appropriate for 1980’s Ireland. In my world the Hunslets did get beyond Inchicore! Due to the withdrawl of timber bodied stock 102 and the NIR mk. 2’s will remain on loan to CIE until the Mk. 3’s are available. Staging yard . The three tracks on the left are the south staging representing connections to the port and also Cork and Limerick. There will be a bridge over the entrance track to form a scenic break from the passenger station. The two middle tracks can be accessed from either end. As these tracks form a reversing loop they are isolated for reversal of polarity. There is also a programming track. The four tracks on the right represent north staging or Dublin. 102passingmine.mp4 The same train passes the dolomite mine and through the soon to be built tunnel , across the liftout flap and into the Junction. Belview230726.mp4 102 has left the passenger station and heads a train of 6 coaches passing the yard at Belview junction230726.mp4

In CIE days we never refered to locomotives as 'Traction' . They were always 'Locos' or 'Engines' By the 1980's maintenance was only carried out in Inchicore in Diesel 1, the old steam errecting shop ( major overhaul), Diesel 2 also known as the ramps ( body repairs) or the Running shed ( daily and weekly service checks). As part of the DART works Connolly shed was upgraded for service checks on locos working the Belfast, Rosslare and Sligo lines. A failure anywhere else and the loco was hauled to Inchicore.

The trees are probably younger than the railway?

The GM engine had a tendency to dump its coolant if it was shut down and let go cold. After the first oil crisis boilers were fitted to keep the engine warm but these were not reliable and drivers tended to leave the engine idling overnight rather than risk a restart.

I'd love an E421 class but I am not sure how many they would sell. It would be very hard to make a reliable model of a Deutz that would be heavy enough to pull anything, they were so small. Most likely could be a D 301 class which would probably be able to share a chassis with an 08 and had a somewhat similar body. Again I am not sure how well it would sell as all were out of service by the 1970's.

Did they ever get even as far as Heuston or Inchicore? I have never seen a picture of any of them at inchicore but stand to be corrected. I do actually have a memory of them on Rugby specials at Lansdowne road during the 70's when I went to Internationals with my dad.

I though I would bump this thread over six years on as the Park Royals and Hunslets are on the way, leaving only the ICRs and the 800 class outstanding of announced models. Maybe changing the title to 1960's to 1990's might be more appropriate as this is where I believe most peoples interest lies. Laying out my own cards, if it ran on tracks in Ireland in the 1980's then I will buy for my layout, but not to sit on the mantlepiece. I really wish to support the manufacture of Irish railway models but my budget is not unlimited and so will not be buying the ICRs, 800's or Darts. Of Noel's original list only the Park Royals have been announced and almost delivered. In addition project Bulleid has delivered a large range of wagon stock including H vans, Palvans, opens, grain vans,flats and oil tanks. We have also received the Hejan Esso oil tank wagons. IRM have hinted that the next new announcement in October will be a C class which would be very logical and I think would sell very well. it could be produced in a large variety of liveries for both CIE and NIR. Hopefully the mainline Park Royals be produced. After than I think an 80 class could be on the cards as I also think this would sell well. Some of the developement costs should already be covered by the mark 2 range. Next in line would be a BR mk1 GSV. From the mid 70's on, every train of Cravens or Park royals needed a GSV and again the developements costs could be shared if accurascale produce their own range of Mk1s. It looks like the Murphy family are continuing with the production of the mk 3's so hopefully they will come out sometime before I die. Enda's 30 ton printed brake van solves the problem of what to run at the end of a train of Bulleids, maybe IRM will produce a 20 ton van? I think we can ignore the idea of a working model of Dick. After these I am struggling to see what else would sell in sufficient numbers to justify developement costs. Apparently a carriage costs nearly as much as a locomotive to develop and produce, but sells for a fraction of the price. I would love to see a model of a 2400 class buffet car as almost all non AC mainline trains had one in their consists. It would go well with the Cravens and Park Royals but as most trains only had one would it sell well enough to justify production? Would an AEC, railcar set sell well? Yes it could be produced in GNR and CIE versions but could it be sold unpowered as a model of the push pulls? Maybe a full train of GSR coaches to go behind Meadhbh? On the freight side maybe a pallet cement wagon, bogie bulk cement wagon or ammonia tanker as some running gear is already produced. Other alternative would be one of the preserved steam locos to pull the RPSI stock.

Much of the testing in the Lab in inchicore in the 1980's was the analysis of lube oil for diesel engines for all the CIE companies.

Did the Hunslets ever get beyond Lansdowne road or anywhere west or south of Dublin?