minister_for_hardship

At first glance I thought (Eamon) Von Ryan's Express, but capacity on the existing units for bikes etc was sorely lacking and like it or not, growing numbers of people will want to travel with bikes.

Now, there is a certain looking at the so-called Good Old Days through rose tinted specs for the folks who dislike "modhern" things simply because they're "modhern", but remember the Cravens when one was a sauna you couldn't see out through the windows in and the next one was Siberia? Broken windows flopping down leaving in wind and rain? Leaking roofs? Stinky smoking coaches? 

Would the same people whinge about air travel because the toilet is tiny and they can't open the windows??

At a guess, I'd say there's more As than Cs in circulation and with the new A, lads more likely to move their SF A on.

1 hour ago, Horsetan said:

Has anyone dared to shorten the IRM "A" into an approximation of a "C"?

You can pick up a Silver Fox A for buttons and butcher that instead.

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Behold the future. Well done. 

I'll drink to that.

52 minutes ago, Broithe said:

 

It's not all black and white on the 'old stuff' front. I realised, during the lockdown, whilst I was trying to cycle every road as the radius went up, just how many roadside pumps were left. I initially expected there to be about a dozen, but I'm heading for three figures now. In the same size area in England, I know of four.

There is a similar higher Irish survival rate for things like wrought-iron field gates, milk stands, lime kilns, etc.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1IgMK3uJ3xIxafN0Y9ScYVvMhA5ZF7nvO&usp=sharing

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzK7xj

 

I know of the locations of roadside water pumps, but the pumps themselves sprouted legs and walked off years before.

I do notice the wrought iron gates but also see similar gates after being unsentimentally driven over by tractors. With machinery increasing in size, these gates will sadly disappear also. Kilns have been demolished with gusto by "progressive" farmers over the years.

I'd say remaining features are only there because they haven't been stolen or they're not in anyone's way yet rather than any great love for them.

11 minutes ago, hurricanemk1c said:

We have industrial heritage, and plenty of it. It's just culturally determined as "British" and therefore doesn't fit into the post independence "everything British was bad" mindset of a lot of museums around the country. That affects not just railways but any industry of note that has been here

To add to that, I firmly believe there is an anti heritage mindset in the general population. Old things and old buildings are not looked fondly upon, just reminders of bad old days and poverty, a general unwillingness to reuse and repurpose old structures as it's thought to be too expensive.

Re transport museums in general, even being located in a major league tourist town is no guarantee of survival. Blarney once had a veteran car museum back in the 70s and more recently Killarney up to the early 00s. In the case of Killarney it was family owned and it was decided to auction off the exhibits, a hotel stands on the site now. Not a peep out of anyone in the town wanting to retain it there.

Official Ireland and Bórd Failte or whatever they're called now have a set idea what interests tourists (The Craic (TM), ancestry hunting, Book Of Kells, surfing in freezing water) A transport or any sort of technical museum isn't in there. 

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

Yup - says it in a nutshell. Now, if that thing had been used in 1916 in Kerry, or in 1690 in the north, it would be preserved. Not otherwise. (I wonder if I could get those letters off...)

Even so, an item of national importance like armoured car Sliabh na mBan was not officially preserved by the State, just a handful of interested people who literally hid it around the Curragh, concealed it off the books saved it from the scrapman. Now it is priceless.

Re 1916 and all that, I believe there's an ongoing tug of war about the buildings on Moore Street, whether they are to be developed into a commercial premises or in the form of museum. If it was any other country, a site linked to its Independence would be preserved and cherished. Here it's the fingers "in a greasy till"...

10 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

That’s actually the point I was trying to make JB - even in the home of preservation, no one expected too much to happen! 

Back in the 50s, he hadn't foreseen the rise of the middle classes, the so-called "people who get up early in the morning" with the cash and leisure time to put bums on seats plus the active retired living longer and again, with money to spend.

Back in 1950-squat, if you made it to retirement, you *might* have at best a decade before you shuffled off the stage.

I don't think anyone could grasp back then that a set of children's books about talking engines would spawn a multi million animation and merch industry thus bringing younger enthusiasts in the door!

34 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Yes, it’s interesting to see that enthusiast groups started in GB some fifty years before the IRRS was founded - and the British movie industry was already satirising enthusiast run railways as early as 1952…..you could have caught a Swilly or SLNC train to watch it….

By and large kick started by a hodge podge of the public schoolboy set, clergy, assorted middle class with time on their hands and wealthy folk. We did not have such a mix in critical numbers.

49 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

This raises an interesting point I referred to earlier. Firstly, our thanks to Leslie for paying his taxes on time!

Leslie mentions the fact that "southern" exhibits are (and were!) few. This amplifies perfectly what I mentioned earlier - that a suitably numerous body of folks on this island - in all corners of it - and whether elected representatives, public figures or just "normal" people - with a sufficient interest in such things simply doesn't exist, never did, and unless the world changes very dramatically indeed, never will. Local "culture" on this island in terms of memorials and visitor attractions that local authorities or private individuals are prepared to invest in are many, but railways simply don't register. We are not a nation of railway enthusiasts; most of us here, if we think about this, will realise that. So, old locomotives, carriages and stations were all just scrapped, and early (since CIE went diesel earlier than NI or Britain). Sure who wants them oul steam trains - scrap'em, good price for the scrap.

Whitehead had 8000 visitors last year. The NRM in York (not counting Shildon) had 570,000+. The Ulster Folk and Transport Museum has 200,000+. The vast majority of these by far visited the old houses and folk museum, NOT the railway part. So let's allow maybe 40,000, arguably generouusly, for the Transport gallery - and half or more of these go because of the road vehicles. It is not unrealistic, therefore, to assume that perhaps 15,000 specifically went to see railway exhibits.

Let's number-crunch. 38 times as many people go to the NRM than (probably) specifically the railway exhibits at Cultra. That statistic in itself, if accurate, is telling. However, look closer! There are not 38 times as many people in Britain as there are here - there are ten times as many. That means that VERY roughly speaking, for every railway enthusiast per 1000 people here, there are probably nearly 4 in Britain.

In the years when the RPSI's May Tour used to run (until Covid), the overwhelming majority of those on board were English. For several decades, especially before Santas became "a thing" it was this tour annually which ALONE kept the RPSI afloat. I did the seating plan for some years, and travelled on all but 3 of them from 1978 until they ended, and on none of them would the TOTAL Irish contingent (north and south combined) filled a single coach. I digress..............!

As our transatlantic friends in 'Murrika might say: "Go figure"!

 

Now; it's high time I took my smelling salts and pills, and set about booking online my proposed visits to the Isle of Man, Keithley, Embsay, the NYMR, Swanage and Welsh Highland Railways later this year..............  (good bars in York too, where they know how to piur guinness; but they don't have the beginnings of a clue on such important matters in Lestah....).....

 

Just for comparison, an industrial theme attraction in the same region (Belfast) about some ship that came a cropper netted some 624,000 odd visitors in 2022, pre Plague they had a high of nearly 837,000 coming through their doors in 2018!

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

The point I was making is that a small group with no operational Railway was able to raise funds for a new loco with money from enthusiasts for their future plans with less problems than a similar scheme would face in Ireland.

Again, they have the interest in the uk to see these things realised, we don't.

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Waterford and Suir Valley is an interesting one, a Community Enterprise that has operated a commercially successful Tourist Railway beneath the radar of the enthusiast community for over 20 years. 

The railway only appears to have come under the enthusiast radar following the news that it was considering acquiring a steam loco.

 

 

I think it's regarded in some quarters as a glorified fairground ride, but it does have to conform to the fairly serious rail safety regulations just like the 'real' railway.

Personally, as it has no old interesting (to me) stock or recreate an atmosphere like the olden days I'd only have marginal interest in it. Likewise I'd gravitate towards a NYMR or a SVR before I'd visit a line with industrial loco haulage, that's not to denigrate the hard work put in by the people involved that's just my preference.

To be fair, the WSVR doesn't appear to suffer from the one man band nature of much of Irish Preservation, ie what happens when that one man isn't around to manage things anymore, and the tendency for disaffection: volunteers leaving and/or picking up their ball and going home.

Indian. They are appearing at antique shops lately at inflated prices. A lot of them crudely constructed or repaired. 

Just that some letters look a bit odd, like a repair over damaged enamel.

19 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

New one for the collection
The back can be as important as the front.

What's going on here?

They were usually enamelled, not painted timber? Or is it painted over enamel mounted on a timber backing?

We had a neighbour, long since gone to his reward, but prone to yarning told one about when CIE were getting rid of old steam locomotives they sold them to big farmers up the country who put them to use in the task of drawing out farmyard manure...

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

177 miles non-stop in a 2600 seems more like penance than pleasure.

What are the Cork enthusiasts atoning for?

My very thoughts when I saw the stock and the distance involved, doubtless people will enjoy the experience, it's just not for me! 

The 21st century version of standing in an open wagon enthusiasts' special.

Re councils and railways, if CIE didn't have a monopoly and councils got a disused line or trackbed for free in this country, it would likely be handed out / sold / rented to surrounding landowners/"friends and family" in days of yore or made into the current in-thing now, greenways.

Again, there's more interest in "what can you do for me?" clientelism here, and that's usually something that can be turned into a thing that makes money with minimum effort. Quickly.

Railway preservation can add value to a locality, but it's a slow burn.

Heaps of people give hours of unpaid, unglamorous background work for GAA, Tidy Towns, beach litter picking etc etc here. Of course local pride/environmentalism comes into it, it's regarded as a social outlet, they don't dig into their pockets much apart from the odd draw or purchase of inexpensive clothing or equipment and doesn't require training as such.

You would struggle to find people prepared to do likewise on a heritage railway. Granted there's some specialised knowledge involved that the general public may not have, but most anyone can wield a paintbrush. The interest just isn't there though.

On 31/1/2024 at 10:31 AM, DoctorPan said:

5T is far far too big for the likes of Suir Valley, it's running costs would be far too much for any setup in Ireland.

Plus you will be unlikely to prise it from the grasp of Kerry County Council, doesn't want to run it, doesn't want anyone else to run it either!

On 31/1/2024 at 10:41 AM, Westcorkrailway said:

Give it a GSWR saloon smokebox doors and an ivatt boxtop cab, and repaint it grey! 
 

anyways 5t I’m reliably told from an early member of the WSVR that the curve to get the line under the road and alongside the greenway is too tight for the likes of 5t and possibly sleive callan too

Probably more suited to something like the C&L's "Dromad" or a 4-4-0T a la the original C&L. Both 5T and 5C are huge beasts.

At the risk of being called a "wibbler", thrown around as a term of abuse these days, I'd be in agreement with Mayner as to whether this is a suitable choice and wise use of resources, a ground up restoration vs a new build. Will the addition of steam attract enough bums on seats to make it worthwhile?

Plus what experience and facilities do the W&SV have to look after it? A steam loco is for "life", a long term commitment, not just for Xmas.

22 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

This Welsh vintage train may see new lease of life in Waterford | Independent.ie

Article in the Indo.

Not Welsh. Not a "train".

Top journalism.

On 28/1/2024 at 2:30 PM, irishrailways52 said:

hopefully it does not end up like Tralee to dingle

Unless there's arrangements made for the future of the site and contents it could well be Blennerville mk2