hexagon789

38 minutes ago, irishthump said:

Don't know what you're getting at the there. The 201 is a very different beast from the 071.

I think Blaine is alluding to the belief that the 071 is the superior locomotive class. A tenet which I subscribe to I must admit, though I don't hate 201s.

8 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

nostalgia sells! 

If it didn't model railways wouldn't exist you could argue, or wouldn't be as financially viable at least.

Perhaps a bit late in the day, but I feel I should point out that in spite of the designation the Irish Mk2D coaches are based on the British Rail Mk2E bodyshell not 2D. 

The toilets are to the later smaller 2E design and are diagonally opposite on the Open Standards (as per BR 2E and 2F) not the same side as with the BR Mk2D.

4 hours ago, Thomas said:

Thanks for the info on the lights gents but when did it switch over to the 2 lights?

After the Cherryville Accident in 1983. It was one of the recommendations of the report produced into the accident.

11 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Presume he means mk2’s. 

Either that or they are taking on Bachmann and Hornby's offerings

23 hours ago, johnfromoz said:

Hi all,

Back in the first release days of the MM mk2ds I was slow in securing a matching rake, so my buffet and gen van are in the ‘Galway livery’.   Now I am aware that its perfectly prototypical to mix and match them with intercity livery, I was pondering on the actual beginning and end dates of the Galway livery?  I can see the earliest photo reference is 2001.  Is this correct?  Did the Galway livery last till withdrawal?

Any info appreciated..

John

The full set was launched on the 23rd July 2001, all the refurbished vehicles were still on the books in January 2008 and were among the very last Mk2D carriages in revenue service.

7 minutes ago, meathdane said:

Either way I'll find a use for them! I've learned from the 071/141/181s, buy Irish stock while its available, otherwise you could be waiting a long time, either way, I'll find a use for them/store them until i can find appropriate stock for them

Quite, sometimes you just have to take the plunge or risk missing out entirely or playing the long waiting game with the potential for increase costs as well.

11 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I was in the cab of an 071 on the Cork line about 1979 and he was delayed leaving, then held at a signal somewhere near Kildare, making him ten minutes down overall. Begad, he threw the anchor and parachutes away after that (about 8 or 9 Mk 2s and genny van behind), and on what they driver referred to as “the racetrack” between Templemore & Thurles he was doing 84…. I think, though stand to be corrected, that the line limit there was 70….

Let me find my WTTs and double check, but I think pre-1984 the full 75 linespeed applied over most if not all that section.

On 3/1/2022 at 1:37 PM, jhb171achill said:

I might add, he was watching her with his dad - who reckoned she was doing over 80 mph at that spot, which I believe was somewhere near Hazelhatch. 100% rural then.

I read with interest recently, that many of the mainlines in Ireland had no prescribed maximum linespeed until the late-1940s/early 1950s when a 70mph ceiling was imposed, there were just limits for junctions and curvature.

Apparently 80mph was not uncommon when drivers were looking to make up time.

This rather mirrors the situation with the GWR in Britain where Sectional Appendices prescribed no maximum linespeed but rather stated: "the maximum speed may be as high as is required to maintain the timetable". A situation which lasted until 1939 and then from 1955-1960 when a 90mph ceiling was imposed for a few years until regularly scheduled 100mph running was introduced.

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I understood the planned batch of 201's only includes the logo shown below on the green & silver model. That logo is much later isn't it? 

Or have I got my wires crossed and there are earlier logos planned in the upcoming release?

Oh right, got you now. I thought you meant the base livery.

Yes, the bilingual logo is later - 2012/13 iirc.

4 hours ago, murphaph said:

Would the 201's being released by MM next have hauled mk3's? (apart from enterprise EGV's)

Are they not all too late livery wise?

I'd keep my powder dry there and wait for the inevitable 071 release. Current demand says they would sell well. I have all the 90's MM ones but I'd buy more if someone was to produce them again.

I understood the current IÉ InterCity livery dated from 2006 (when the Mk4s were introduced) and the Mk2D stock lasted until March 2008, the Mk3s until October 2009 and the latter were certainly hauled by Green/Silver 201s

58 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

That makes sense. He was in Scotland a couple of times. He went off chasing Black 5s, as he remembered them being built when he worked 2 years in England. 

Among names I recall him mentioning as having been to, were Alloa, Brechin, Oban, Mallaig & Kyle.

 

Could be Alloa then - the Wickham cars saw use earliest on the Stirling-Alloa-Dollar service, another lightly used rural line.

Alloa being yet another large station with a service greatly lower in proportion than the amount of track provided, though there was a reasonably frequent Stirling-Alloa shuttle from memory until the line closed and of course it's now been re-opened for 10 years and served by a regular hourly electric service from Glasgow! 

9 minutes ago, StevieB said:

The railcar photo is quite a delight. The two railcars are from the 700 and 900 series  but what is the intermediate coach?

Stephen

Some form of catering vehicle?

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

A few more at complete random from jhbSenior's stuff.

First, a few in Brexitstan. He has quite a lot of BR material as a result of his annual attendance at the Annual General Meeting of the Permanent Way Institution, of which he was a member from 1939 until he passed away in 2014, by which time he was by far the oldest Irish member.

Ennnnyway; here we go. I have absolutely no idea where any of these are, sorry! But they are all early to mid 1960s, obviously. I think the latest couple are 1967.

 

 

 

.

........and back to familiar lands where things run on a proper gauge. Three liveries in this one.

The wee railbus is one of the Scottish Region 'Wickham' cars, these were used on a variety of lightly used rural branches, but one of the best known was the Gleneagles-Creiff-Comrie line. Crieff was actually a huge junction station but by the railcar era it had only the 6 railcar services each way through it despite having four mainline length platforms and 5 through roads.

I think that may be Crieff in your picture, the canopies are right but I can't really make out any surrounding detail. 

On 19/12/2021 at 2:17 PM, jhb171achill said:

Hi hexagon 

It seems I didn’t read the writings on it properly - it says that the particular photographer (whose details are private) does not “under any circumstances” grant permission for copies, nor enter into any correspondence!

I must presume, therefore, that unless anyone knew him personally and might “put in a word” for someone else, it’s a dead duck…. The photo was of a steam train leaving Dunsandle for Loughrea. It’s not even that great a photo, but I like it!

That's a shame, but I suppose at least the photo was of interest!

On 19/12/2021 at 1:39 PM, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Much appreciated, thank you!

Sent you a PM, will try and check the journals for the other info tomorrow.

2 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Would anyone know the dates of when the entirety (Except 201 herself) of the 201 Class were delivered? Apparently, on the 24th March 1995, 228, 229, 230 and 231 were unloaded on North Wall Quay Extension, 231, 229 were hauled to Inchicore by 157, 228 and 230 were hauled by 143 to Inchicore

I can check the IRRS Journals later for that information.

2 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Oh, and yes please, I've been looking for blueprints for a long time. Thank you in advance!

I'll PM you

On 13/12/2021 at 1:33 AM, jhb171achill said:

I found a photo on the smugmug site which I'd like a copy of, and publishing permission if possible. The site says that copyright is held by a number of different people. Having identified this one specific image, does anyone know how I can find out who holds the copyright and, ideally, their contact details?

Could you provide a link to the photo @jhb171achill? Might be able to find the information you're looking for if I can follow the link.

6 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Ah, so that explains it, the mirrors were used for checking if all the slam-doors rolling stock were closed before departure...Or something like that...

The electrific sliding doors on Mk3 p-p, 4 & D-D stock certainly as the doors are all controlled by the driver. Normal IC Mk3 sets I believe the guard controlled the doors - at least that was the original method, it may have changed when the 201s appeared.

Slam-doors I presume would have been the guards responsibility to ensure they were closed.

5 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Slightly off topic - but would anyone have any diagrams/blueprints of some of the Mark 3 rolling stock, such as the EGV and the Control car? I may model one soon 

Yes, can PM you.

On 15/12/2021 at 12:29 AM, Mayner said:

The 201 Class did a lot of damage to the 90lb ex-1920s MGWR rail still in use on the Mayo & Galway Roads in the 90s, the 071s did much the same for the 85Lb rail still in use between Mulllingar and Sligo.

The Knockcrokery derailment triggered an independent review by an international rail consultant who were shocked by both the standard of track maintenance by the Athlone Division and heavy axleload locos like the 201s running at relatively high speed on such light rail put down during the 1920s

And of course the number of TSRs grew and grew right up until the late-1990s when a lot of relaying was done and the speed ceiling on the Western routes was raised then from 70 to 80mph and on the Sligo Road from 70 to 75mph.

Quite scary to think about the unofficial speeds attained on some of those less than perfect sections of track. I wonder if Irish Rail drivers had a similar attitude to those in Britain in the days before widespread speed monitoring. I believe IR had recorders on the 071s and later locos, not sure about the older GMs but did these dissuade drivers from pushing speeds at all?

In Britain the attitude was often that exceeding linespeed by a moderate amount was tolerated if it was ever discovered but not that of exceeding PSRs or TSRs by any significant margin.

12 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

I've just realized something...were mirrors installed on the 201 class? 

Yes, definitely.

Well used with Mk4 and D-D sets, I'm guessing also with Mk3 P-Ps given the mirrors on their DTs. Not sure whose responsibility the doors were on normal Mk3 sets but I'm not sure that's relevant.

11 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

I do apologize for the low quality, as it was the best close-ups I could really find. But there has to be some kind of difference, the light's shape must've been changed a little, since the 201s nowadays have a rounded and smoother shape.

I don't think that photo shows it, but the 201s, as per other surviving IÉ locos, had LED marker lights fitted during the early 2000s replacing the original ones. This does give an noticeable change in appearance.

One of the NIR 111s was so treated by IÉ when on loan to them as well.

I believe the IRRS journals detailed the changes, but I won't be able to check them until tomorrow afternoon, so I'll get back to you on that.

While I'm at it I'll look out the issue which details the 201 Class entry to service and gives all the various technical details.

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ll check out a few pics and report back if I see anything relevant!

I'm guessing it's the change to LED markers, sadly my go to photo resource of Flickr appears to be having some hiccoughs involving some naughty pandas right now, so I can't link in a few photos to show what I believe is being referred to here to illustrate the difference.

With any luck the issues will be resolved tomorrow and I'll be able to link some photos, but if you've any to hand JHB of 201s as new and then from about 2001/2-ish onwards I think you'll spot the difference with the marker/tail lights.

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Couldn't agree more, Hexagon - some Wiki stuff is is 100% on the money and well written, but other stuff there is drivel or a misleading half-story!

It's fine when the articles are backed up by authorative sources, but so many are backed up by poor sources or none at all.

Personally I'd rather just go to the authoritative source in the first place if possible.

It has its uses as a quick way of obtaining an outline picture and some of the historical articles are an interesting read, but I find anything transport related, particularly rail, seems to lack clarity and accuracy in data all too often.

One only has to look at the reasons why editing on the article on British Class 390 Pendolinos is locked without admin approval to see what I mean!

4 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Good afternoon everyone, I'm currently making plans on a historical video of the history of the 201 class, and I was wondering if there was anything noticeable about them, and if there was anything major that would be crucial to add into the script, or hopefully some misconceptions that could be corrected.

It depends what exactly your looking for, but important to say DO NOT rely on Wikipedia as a source.

A lot of the technical data on the IÉ 201 Class on Wiki is, to be kind, somewhat innacurate.

Power-at-rail is 2,480hp not 2,970

Their maximum speed is 165km/h  (and yes it is km/h and not an even 100mph though that is their maximum in service), that is what they were designed to.

Little things of this nature. 

I would trust the data from the IRRS Journal of the period, provided with data straight from IÉ themselves more than facts from Wikipedia some 25+ years later that anyone can theoretically input.

Good luck with your project.

On 23/10/2021 at 3:22 PM, DiveController said:

Thanks, Michael. Now to get one, maybe @leslie10646?

Or contact the society direct?

They've been very helpful in enabling me to obtain certain back issues of the journal in the past.

10 minutes ago, Dhu Varren said:

both three-pipe, and two-pipe versions were converted to 80 Class intermediate cars.

Fair enough then, the DEMUs are not quite my area of expertise - I'm more a coaching stock man

14 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I think in later days quite a few ex-1970 Enterprise coaches ended up within the 80 class fleet.

Perhaps because the earlier ones had the same three-pipe air brakes the 80 Class used? 

Just a guess, any of the later coaches would've needed conversion as they were two-pipe.