grey wagons, bauxite wagons, brake systems

[Sentinel281]

Hello,

 

on the site of antics I found a description of the different colours they offer. At the bauxite colour is described that BR hat grey wagons wich were only hand braked and bauxite wagons that were vacuum braked. Now my question is: Do the same regulations also apply to C.I.E.? And in addition: Since when were unbraked wagons piped and would they have been able to bee combined freely with braked ones (as this was for example on mainland Europe)? And at least: If one makes a train of wagons and a brake van: Is the brake van braked manually by the guard or is it braked by vacuum brake through the whole piped train between loco and brakevan?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Gerhard.

[Glenderg]

Gerhard,

 

There was a post some time ago, which if memory serves me correctly, stated that there was no fixed rule of vacuum/hand braked versus colour grey/bauxite. Or at least there were enough variations on the rule to prove there was no rule. Anything goes.

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1257-GSR-CIE-Wagon-Liveries?p=20961&viewfull=1#post20961

 

Richie.

[jhb171achill]

Prior to 1970, there were very few bauxite wagons in Ireland, though what few there were would have been primarily on the GNR and NCC. CIE started to paint wagons bauxite-like brown in earnest during the 70s.

 

Rules applying to BR were nothing to do with anything that went on here. As Glenderg implies, any similarities were more likely to be co-incidental, though CIE did plan things to some extent along similar lines. BR wagons had other unrelated livery differences too - roofs were not necessarily the same colour as body sides, as they generally were here, and chassis were inevitably black in GB, whereas here almost all companies used the body colour in almost all cases. Ironwork, too, was generall picked out in black on most British livery variations among different companies and BR - though I am by no means expert on what I suspect might have been many exceptions. Here, picking ironwork out in black was extremely rare, and not seen at all on CIE, GNR or UTA wagons. (NIR did, though, on a a small fleet of ballast wagons repainted a very light grey about 1970).

[Sentinel281]

Ah, thanks Richie, that's what I was looking for. You are always a great help in here, guys! That's really great!

[leslie10646]

Prior to 1970, there were very few bauxite wagons in Ireland, though what few there were would have been primarily on the GNR and NCC. CIE started to paint wagons bauxite-like brown in earnest during the 70s.

 

Rules applying to BR were nothing to do with anything that went on here. As Glenderg implies, any similarities were more likely to be co-incidental, though CIE did plan things to some extent along similar lines. BR wagons had other unrelated livery differences too - roofs were not necessarily the same colour as body sides, as they generally were here, and chassis were inevitably black in GB, whereas here almost all companies used the body colour in almost all cases. Ironwork, too, was generall picked out in black on most British livery variations among different companies and BR - though I am by no means expert on what I suspect might have been many exceptions. Here, picking ironwork out in black was extremely rare, and not seen at all on CIE, GNR or UTA wagons. (NIR did, though, on a a small fleet of ballast wagons repainted a very light grey about 1970).

 

Folks

 

As you know, I have produced and sold over two thousand wagons and I assure you that any livery I have used, I had photographic evidence for!

 

The GNR(I) used grey for unfitted and bauxite for fitted wagons - plenty of evidence of that and it is also what is stated in the railway's history.

 

No open wagons were fitted, so all were grey, with white lettering. However, there were examples of the ironwork being picked out. My Provincial Wagons No.5558 has the ironwork picked out in black in the photo which I have and that was taken as late as June 1957 and it's not the only example of this which I have to hand.

 

John is correct that the underframe was the same colour as the body. If you have my Dapol-produced wagons, they have, of course, got black underframes. Dapol insisted that the plastic used couldn't be painted! Try Halford's grey undercoat - it works!

 

The LMSNCC generally used grey, regardless, but the imported LMS vans (PW has made two of these) WERE an orangey brown and survived to appear in lots of 1960s colour photos.

 

I suspect that you guys are more interested in the CIE situation and as others have stated, the practice was variable. My advice is - get the books out and do some research - there are plenty of colour images of CIE wagons in the two volumes of Irish Railways in Colour. Another good source are the DVDs made of Irish railways - watch them with your finger on the pause button!

 

Hope that this helps a little.

 

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

Very much in tune with my observations and records, Leslie - yes, there were even exceptions! I suppose one important thing for modellers is that post 1955 anyway, very heavy weathering over paintwork so badly faded it was hard to make out at all, and sometimes bare wood in between, became increasingly common until the last of the older all-wood wagons disappeared in the very early 70s.

[Mayner]

Brian Flanigans Flicker site is a great refrence for CIE wagons including some oddites unfitted GSR vans in red oxide a modern fitted container flat in grey with a red swap body.

 

Although some brake vans had vacuum brakes most loose coupled trains ran without a continuous brake the guard would keep the couplers stretched out and apply the brake using the hand brake in the van.

[jhb171achill]

I'd seen those right enough - excellent stuff. The "down at heel" grey van no. 240 is in fact 240N - it's ex GNR, as can be seen with faded "G N" on the side under the CIE paintwork.