Observations on the Belfast line

[jhb171achill]

Went to Belfast today.

Up in a DD, back to Drogheda on an ICR, and onwards locally in a 28 class. 

A pleasant day, visiting a friend in Belfast, and four observations.

1. Great to be able to get a meal at a table and in first class; there really ought to be equivalents on IR.

2. DDs are vastly superior to Mk 4s in comfort.

3. If I could turn back the clock in a Time Machine, my second choice would be to take a train from Broadstone to Achill. My FIRST would be to seek out the future parents of “skem”, whose unsightly graffiti stretches from Connolly to Belfast, and have them both neutered.

4. I did my last leg in a 29 class. It was spotlessly clean inside, had clean windows inside and out, no graffiti, no Lino patches on the floor, clean upholstery, and the seats seemed comfortable. First time for everything! So, question, have some of these been internally refurbished in recent times?

[Louth]

With regard to the Belfast line, Minister Daragh O'Brien in a reply recently to a PQ from Louth TD Paula Butterly (FG), stated that there are no current plans for a Drogheda North station. This is despite a further 5,000 homes being built on the north side of Drogheda and a new access road which will intersect with the line at an ideal spot for a new station. Currently the car park in Drogheda station is full from 7.45 am on weekdays and there is a large throughput of traffic from the station traversing Drogheda at peak times. One wonders at all the political rhetoric concerning a deficit in infrastructure and the need for better planning.

 

Anyhow, that's my whinge for the day for all its worth!

 

[GSR 800]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

4. I did my last leg in a 29 class. It was spotlessly clean inside, had clean windows inside and out, no graffiti, no Lino patches on the floor, clean upholstery, and the seats seemed comfortable. First time for everything! So, question, have some of these been internally refurbished in recent times?

At least half of the class have been refloored, with better sound insulated flooring (was standard with the later batch but the first 10 lacked this). Many have gotten new seats, or the backs have been replaced if they've been defaced. Tables likewise either replaced or have been resurfaced. It's basically a mid life internal rebuild.

The seats on the 29s have always been quite comfortable for a commuter train, many are just utterly worn out from so much use. The most uncomfortable aspect I've found about them is the window seat footroom is made entirely uneven by the coving curving up from floor to 'wall'. 

 

Edited May 15 by GSR 800

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Louth said:

With regard to the Belfast line, Minister Daragh O'Brien in a reply recently to a PQ from Louth TD Paula Butterly (FG), stated that there are no current plans for a Drogheda North station. This is despite a further 5,000 homes being built on the north side of Drogheda and a new access road which will intersect with the line at an ideal spot for a new station. Currently the car park in Drogheda station is full from 7.45 am on weekdays and there is a large throughput of traffic from the station traversing Drogheda at peak times. One wonders at all the political rhetoric concerning a deficit in infrastructure and the need for better planning.

 

Anyhow, that's my whinge for the day for all its worth!

 

A very valid point. Noticed all the new building today. It’s a very obvious no-brainer for a few station, as is Dunleer!

[LNERW1]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

4. I did my last leg in a 29 class. It was spotlessly clean inside, had clean windows inside and out, no graffiti, no Lino patches on the floor, clean upholstery, and the seats seemed comfortable. First time for everything! So, question, have some of these been internally refurbished in recent times?

No graffiti? Jesus that actualy winded me with shock.

Maybe the cleanliness is a subtle reminder that the 29s are on the way out (at least on suburban work AFAIK) with DART+ units coming. Didn't they always say if a station had a fresh coat of paint it would be closed soon? Maybe the same principle applies if you do enough mental gymnastics.

Edited May 15 by LNERW1

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, LNERW1 said:

No graffiti? Jesus that actualy winded me with shock.

Maybe the cleanliness is a subtle reminder that the 29s are on the way out (at least on suburban work AFAIK) with DART+ units coming. Didn't they always say if a station had a fresh coat of paint it would be closed soon? Maybe the same principle applies if you do enough mental gymnastics.

Until now, I must confess that my overall view of the 29 class has been extremely unpositive. The lowest point was a brutal journey about a year or more ago from Rosslare to Dublin in one - it was internally as bad as any I've seen (and I've been in Myanmar and India). It was full of litter, worn dirty seats, filthy blocked toilet (do IE not employ ANY cleaners at Rosslare????). Add to that the painfully slow journey. It seems that nothing on the DSER gets much above jogging pace. But today's jaunt in a 29, I must confess, left me quite impressed. When those seats (few as they may be) are clean and new, they are actually very comfortable - far more so than their NIR cousins. And it's nice seeing a clean floor, all one colour and with no patches.

Edited May 15 by jhb171achill

[Branchline121]

On 15/5/2025 at 6:01 PM, Louth said:

With regard to the Belfast line, Minister Daragh O'Brien in a reply recently to a PQ from Louth TD Paula Butterly (FG), stated that there are no current plans for a Drogheda North station. This is despite a further 5,000 homes being built on the north side of Drogheda and a new access road which will intersect with the line at an ideal spot for a new station. Currently the car park in Drogheda station is full from 7.45 am on weekdays and there is a large throughput of traffic from the station traversing Drogheda at peak times. One wonders at all the political rhetoric concerning a deficit in infrastructure and the need for better planning.

 

Anyhow, that's my whinge for the day for all its worth!

 

The Drogheda-Dundalk section should really see more service. It’s ridiculous that Drogheda-in-Oriel and Dunleer are left unserved when such growth is happening. The same could be said for Navan but I think everything I could say has already been said on that.

[jhb171achill]

56 minutes ago, Branchline121 said:

The Drogheda-Dundalk section should really see more service. It’s ridiculous that Drogheda-in-Oriel and Dunleer are left unserved when such growth is happening. The same could be said for Navan but I think everything I could say has already been said on that.

It will once the new toiletless white things are in traffic. Talk is of a ten-minute service; though that seems a pipe dream of an NTA with no concept of congestion at Connolly!

[Colin_McLeod]

On 15/5/2025 at 10:34 PM, jhb171achill said:

Add to that the painfully slow journey. It seems that nothing on the DSER gets much above jogging pace.

The DSER was known locally as the "Dublin Slow and Easy Railway".

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

The DSER was known locally as the "Dublin Slow and Easy Railway".

Dirty, Slow & Easy, even, when Snr. commuted to school on it from 1923 onwards!

[Colin_McLeod]

JHB I stand corrected. 

 

[DSERetc]

The last thing that intercity passengers (Sorry - customers) travelling between Belfast and Dublin need at present is more commuter stations between Dundalk and Drogheda or any where else along the line.   In the late 1940s, a car could take up to 5 hours to make the journey, travelling at about 40 - 45mph and having to make its way through about 10 towns on the way.  Then taking the train was usually the better choice.        In response to an Aer Lingus proposal for a Dublin - Belfast service, in 1947 the GNRI started a non-stop express, leaving Belfast at 10.30 am and Dublin at 5.30 pm - the Enterprise Express taking 2 hours and 15 minutes.   The journey still takes more or less the same time today, almost 80 years later.

Today, the competition is the car and the bus on the new motorways,  Belfast to Dublin Airport in 1 1/2 hours for example.                              We have a slow intercity service and a congested commuter service sharing the same railway line, built in the 1850s.    

After 175 years, could we afford to have new high speed lines serving Dublin - Belfast in 30 minutes  at 300 mph and Dublin - Cork in 45 minutes, by-passing all other towns, and leave the existing lines to the commuter services and slower intercity trains and any new stations that are required.          Would the cost of such high speed lines be much more than quadrupling the existing lines?     However, would their income repay the investment in them?

DSERetc

[jhb171achill]

I think that in terms of return on investment - if we view that in traditioanl purely fiscal terms - not one red cent spent on any railway in Ireland ever will produce a "return", as such, so that one's long gone.

However, the way to look at it is the social and practical benefit it brings, rather than return on investment. There is absolutely no doubt that if the money could be found, the existence of a much higher speed service would be an absolutely immense benefit.

Four-tracking Drogheda to Dublin, a la Cork line, would in theory be the best answer, but Connolly congestion would become impossible. Plus, there isn't the room to four-track that line without (in some places) removing housing in a city with an existing chronic housing shortage. Add to that the difficulties associated with, perhaps, and entire closure of the northern suburban service for many many months, perhaps several years.

Yes, hypothetically possible, but given the above, it just ain't gonna happen. The ONLY way is underground. Keep the darts where they are and send the Enterprise, and outer-suburban semi-fasts, UNDER the ground.They built the Port Tunnel WITHIN the allotted tomescale, and as far as I know within budget (Children's Hospital take note).

If they had the undergrounde serving the airport and Swords areas too, four-track THAT, and have a new and badly needed commuter route, with the Enterprise scooting through on central tracks. It really is that simple.

If Vienna, a city of similar size to Dublin, can do all this - which it can and does - then so can we.