Drumm Battery Trains

[Maitland]

I picked up a fascinating booklet recently. It shows no publisher, ISBN number or publication date, though from internal evidence it's after 1994 and the author is Roddy King. Publication was "supported by the Electricity Supply Board".

It gives a potted history of the Drumm train development, from information given by Brian Hogan, apparently the last survivor of the development team. Development started much earlier than the brief mentions it gets in normal histories, and the idea of battery vehicles was satirised in Dublin Opinion (what was that)?)  in 1927. The GSR supported development enthusiastically, assisting in the conversion of a 4 wheeled inspection carriage with end windows into a battery- electric car - "Experimental Coach no 386 Drumm Patent". Trials from August 1929 proved the concept, and the Government supported the construction of two full- scale trains after commissioning an independent report.

A few questions- who was (is?) Roddy King? Can the inspection carriage be identified? And what became of Dr Drumm after the collapse of the Drumm Battery Company when further development became impossible in the Emergency? He lived apparently till 1974.

It's a real pity the battery design was forgotten. It seems to have several characteristics that might have been useful today. It doesn't flare like a lithium battery in an accident or through mis- charging (Though as with any powerful battery, a short circuit can set fire to anything flammable within range). It can withstand short circuits without damage. It's made of cheap and readily available materials. It can charge very fast, and source high currents without damage. Maintenance is simple. And it is obviously rugged - the sets lasted over 5 years after the demise of the company that made them.

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks, very interesting. 
Is there any info on the numbering of the sets in later life, or of their period of usage as hauled stock? 
I’m trying to reconcile the vehicles listed in the 250x series in the 1961 carriage register with the original set letters. 

[murrayec]

The book was by Roddy Ring.....

More info on a google search 'Drumm Battery Train'

and 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drumm_Battery_Train

 

Edited Friday at 16:23 by murrayec

[Maitland]

Roddy Ring it is, Specsavers appointment made. There's no information on the later career of the sets in the booklet. It concentrates on their technical history, in particular the batteries. There's also a rather hilarious account of a demonstration run from Amiens St to Gorey and back, with all the GSR and government top brass on board. It nearly ended in humiliation when, instead of allowing a half- hour recharge at Bray on the way back, De Valera decided he had better things to do than sample the buffet provided, and insisted on leaving after only ten minutes. They would have made it, except that a director of the Drumm company told the driver to stop at Blackrock because it was near his house. The battery drain on restarting meant they ran out at Westland Row.

There's only the briefest mention of the sets in Desmond Coakham's "Irish Broad Gauge Carriages", and no clue there as to the identity of "Experimental Coach no. 386". However, Wikipedia says it was one of the Drewry petrol railcars, which have been discussed here: GSR Drewry Inspection Car, with lovely model by KMCE.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, the experimental coach was of that type. A four-wheeled thing with a curved front.

jhbSenior x2 designed the carriage part bodywork for units C & D, their resemblance to “Bredin”-type design being obvious. I don’t know if he had anything to do with A & B, which were different.

But I don’t believe he ever had many dealings with Dr Drumm himself - he was an intensely private man!

 

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks for the extra information. There are some photos of the Drumm cars in later life on the IRRS Flickr:

Older sets:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253405400/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251301406/

Later sets:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509040104/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509080753/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53454365270/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54250396627/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507224975/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570664018/

Note that these received two iterations of CIE livery, the original 1940s scheme and the simpler late 1950s scheme.

Originally the sets were lettered but the individual vehicles seem to have also carried numbers in the 250x series - some are legible in these photos, even when in GSR livery as here:

http://www.industrialheritageireland.info/BookReviews/Covers/Railway/The Story of the Drumm Battery Train.jpg

It looks like sets A and B were 2500-2503, and sets C and D were 2504-2507. But they may not have been in order - based on the photos 2504 seems to have been in set D.

The later sets were classified as secondary stock in the 1961 carriage register and are shown at the bottom of this page. I assume the articulated pairs were 2504-2505 and 2506-2507. Note that one of them is listed as being through-wired for AEC railcar operation, which would be plausible as these were used as suburban hauled stock at the time. 

 

Also several photos of 386:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509041219/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507833502/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511681460/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508678098/

 

[Maitland]

Donal Murray's "Great Southern Railways" pictorial has a photo of 386, with the curved bit just visible at one end only - a bit odd as it presumably ran both ways. You can be proud of your ancestor- the design of C and D makes contemporary railcars (and most of those of 20 years later) look crude. Unfortunately I only get error 403 (permission) from flickr.

[jhb171achill]

I’m not sure the de-batteried coaches got the later green livery. I seem to recall pics of them lying up awaiting scrapping in the older green livery (faded so badly you could see GSR maroon underneath!)

[murrayec]

The best man for info on the Drumm system is Cliften Flewit (spelt that wrong!) in the IRRS, if my memory serves correctly he told me that one of the 4 wheel test units ended up as a holiday cabin near Bray!

Eoin

Edit;-

Clifton Flewitt

 

Edited 10 hours ago by murrayec

[jhb171achill]

Just now, murrayec said:

The best man for info on the Drumm system is Cliften Flewit (spelt that wrong!) in the IRRS, if my memory serves correctly he told me that one of the 4 wheel test units ended up as a holiday cabin near Bray!

Eoin

He’s correct on that one. I saw it when I was a young child. Even then I’m not sure it was still in use.

Clifton is probably the greatest living expert on Dublin trams.

[murrayec]

If you tell him you have viewed this video- he will tell you everything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_on7lzhU_Q

Edited 10 hours ago by murrayec

[seagoebox]

some more info on Drumm cars....

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

I’m not sure the de-batteried coaches got the later green livery. I seem to recall pics of them lying up awaiting scrapping in the older green livery (faded so badly you could see GSR maroon underneath!)

Well, happily, you can now be sure they did. The photos linked above show both the later sets in the simpler green livery with a single waist line with '2' class digits on the doors, no snails.

Some of the images are in colour, and they are parked next to an older coach in the older darker green livery with complex lining.

 

1 hour ago, Maitland said:

Donal Murray's "Great Southern Railways" pictorial has a photo of 386, with the curved bit just visible at one end only - a bit odd as it presumably ran both ways. You can be proud of your ancestor- the design of C and D makes contemporary railcars (and most of those of 20 years later) look crude. Unfortunately I only get error 403 (permission) from flickr.

You need to be an IRRS member to see their Flickr archive of nearly 30,000 Irish railway photos - highly recommended.

 

3 minutes ago, seagoebox said:

some more info on Drumm cars....

Wonderful - that is very clear and detailed, resolves my questions and confirms the repaint in simpler livery. I shall update my carriage register spreadsheet accordingly.