Cyril Fry CIE models from the 1955 modernisation programme

[jhb171achill]

From Patricia Dillon’s collection with permission; IRM (for Park Royals) and Mol-PB will be particularly interested!

[jhb171achill]

[jhb171achill]

Niles at DCDR will be interested in this!

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks. Mine is not so clean any more!

Even Fry's model at Malahide is a bit weathered.

 

What I'm really interested in is whether there was one of these in full size. Is there a photo of a silver Park Royal in the collection?

Note that the model is not numbered as a Park Royal - 1430 was one of the laminates that came directly after the Park Royals and were indeed in silver finish. 

A silver Park Royal would have had to be painted silver, rather than just left in unpainted aluminium. 

Only last night I was trawling the photo archives for early photos of 'main line' Park Royals, and I've found quite a few more pictures of them, all in green, some when almost brand new.

Was one painted silver as a trial, or is it a myth / misunderstanding relating to the laminates of identical layout that followed straight after the Park Royals?

 

 

Edit: so there was! Thanks for adding the image to the post above!

Edited February 16 by Mol_PMB

[jhb171achill]

Recent comments on this forum re the smaller dimensions of 1880s / 90s six-wheelers are worth bearing in mind here….

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Many thanks. Mine is not so clean any more!

Even Fry's model at Malahide is a bit weathered.

 

What I'm really interested in is whether there was one of these in full size. Is there a photo of a silver Park Royal in the collection?

Note that the model is not numbered as a Park Royal - 1430 was one of the laminates that came directly after the Park Royals and were indeed in silver finish. 

A silver Park Royal would have had to be painted silver, rather than just left in unpainted aluminium. 

Only last night I was trawling the photo archives for early photos of 'main line' Park Royals, and I've found quite a few more pictures of them, all in green, some when almost brand new.

Was one painted silver as a trial, or is it a myth / misunderstanding relating to the laminates of identical layout that followed straight after the Park Royals?

It was real; see Fry photo of one in use.

I have no info on how many were either like this OR dark green; almost certainly very few indeed in both cases. 

The new lighter green livery had just come into being literally as they were entering traffic, so the vast majority of them entered traffic like that.

[Mol_PMB]

There were only 10 of the main line Park Royals, numbers 1419 to 1428.

This IRRS photo shows a green one, brand new in October 1955. It's definitely a main line type, with the steps and water pipes on the ends, and the frosted window:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651

This may well be the same vehicle on the same occasion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260

It's almost impossible to tell the shade of green from these images though. I can't read the number but it may be legible on the original image.

 

This IRRS photo dated July 1960 shows a main line Park Royal in green, from the side opposite the toilet compartment (i.e. window not frosted) but you can still see that steps and water filler pipes on the end. Further evidence of this being a main line type is the view through the carriage vestibule and saloon door - this would be blocked by a seat back on a suburban coach. It has unpainted sliding window frames so this is probably its original paint job: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527645299

 

A main line Park Royal in light green livery with black ends was included in the formation of an IRRS railtour to Wicklow Murrough on 7th July 1962, appearing in quite a lot of colour photos of which this is one of the clearest and shows the end pipework and frosted windows:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256744741

This coach has green sliding window frames (which were originally unpainted) so it is likely that it has been repainted in light green. It appears that the windows opposite the toilets were altered to frosted at some stage.

 

A main line Park Royal in light green livery was also used for another railtour to Ardnacrusha on 1st September 1962, again appearing in lots of IRRS photos along with these by Ernie. As can be seen here, there were two main line Park Royals in this rake - the other in BnT livery. Note the frosted windows and pipes to the toilet tanks:

That's all I've got so far for main line Park Royals in green, but I'm less than half-way through my image trawl. There may be more to find.

[Mol_PMB]

I keep looking at the picture of the shiny silver Park Royal. Perhaps I have some magpie blood in me?

It has outward-opening doors (the bottom of the door is flush with the bottom of the bodyside, the top corners are square, and the hinges are visible).

In contrast, the green main-line Park Royal in the October 1955 photo shows inward-opening doors as originally fitted to the suburban Park Royals (the bottom of the door is higher up to clear the internal floor, the top corners are radiused, no hinges are visible):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651

Here's a photo from Ernie of a suburban Park Royal showing the inward-opening door very clearly:

Fry's model of the silver one represents inward-opening doors.

 

 

@jhb171achill Do we have a date for the silver Park Royal photo?

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

@jhb171achill Do we have a date for the silver Park Royal photo?

Unfortunately not!

16 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

A silver Park Royal would have had to be painted silver, rather than just left in unpainted aluminium. 

Silver livery for anything was so very obviously catastrophically impractical, as steam locos were still bumbling about among them, and Crossley A & C classes spewing burnt oil into the atmosphere. As a reasult, it was given up very quickly indeed and replaced with lighter green. However, this was happening as the PRs were entering traffic, so I would have thought it certainly possible that a PR would have started off unpainted. The idea of them taking a conscious decision to paint a (presumably previously-green) one in silver, as if it were a livery, does not seem likely.

[Mol_PMB]

A pity there isn't a date on the silver Park Royal photo. I agree with you that it was most likely silver from new.

I reiterate that a silver Park Royal is not 'unpainted'. If it was unpainted it would be rusty steel, not shiny aluminium. Here are some under construction at Inchicore showing the steel bodyshells painted in primer:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251537558

The finish of the brand new silver Park Royal is obviously different from the highly-reflective aluminium finish of the tin van bodyshells when new (as shown in your photo at the top of the thread). The tin van underframes were silver-painted steel, and have the same flatter finish seen on the silver Park Royal.

 

I do think its worth looking at the dates a bit more closely, because the vast majority of the Park Royals entered service before anything in the silver/aluminium livery. The dreadful weathering of silver/aluminium stock would not have been obvious at the time that the Park Royals were being built. 

• Suburban Park Royals: 1955 (the earliest photo I've found, under construction, is dated 23 Oct 1954)
• Main Line Park Royals: 1956 (the earliest photo I've found, brand new in green livery on trial, is dated 22 Oct 1955) 

 

Stock entering service in silver/aluminium livery:

• A Class: 27 Sept 1955 to 9 Jan 1957
• 3101-3141 Heating vans: 1955-1956
• 1429-1443 Standards: 1956 [number series follows on from the Park Royals]
• B101 Class: 9 April 1956 to 23 Dec 1957
• G601 Class: 1 June 1956 to 11 Mar 1957
• 2162-2171 Composites: 1957 [there's a photo of a brand new one in use on 26 Mar 1957]
• 2700-2765 Luggage vans: 1957
• C Class: 4 March 1957 to 22 Jan 1958 (231/234 entered service in green in Jan 1958 but 232/233 were silver on 22 Jan 1958)
• 2962-2971 4w TPOs: 1957
• E401 Class: 10 July 1957 to 21 Mar 1958
• 2972-2978 TPOs: 1958
• 1444-1448 Standards: 1958 [these may have been green]

So, at the time the main line Park Royals were being built in autumn 1955, the first silver A class were just arriving, and the first of the heating vans were being built to run with them. The heating vans would have entered service alongside the A class as they were not needed with steam locos. The earliest photo I've found of a main line Park Royal, dated 22 Oct 1955, shows it alongside absolutely pristine brand new heating vans:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260

All the other stock in the silver/aluminium livery came after the main line Park Royals. 

CIE persisted with the unpainted aluminium finish for new stock until 1958 (2 years after the main line Park Royals entered service), and I suspect this change was linked to the retirement of Bulleid on 30th May 1958. 'Laminate' stock continued to be built, but it was painted light green.

 

It's quite possible that the silver-painted Park Royal was the first CIE passenger coach in the silver livery (other than 'Silver Princess' in the previous decade).

[Mol_PMB]

Here's a lovely colour photo of a passenger train in the landscape around 1960:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449694369

The liveries are a mix of silver, light green and dark green, my interpretation being:

• Silver A class
• Light green tin heating van
• Dark green corridor composite (2137-2161 series of 1954, I think)
• Dark green Park Royal (1419-1428 main line type, note frosted toilet window)
• Light green 8-bay open second (1449-1496 series of 1958-60, I think)
• Silver tin luggage van
• Vac-fitted goods van

So it looks like the main line Park Royal models can be realistically produced in Dark Green, Silver, Light Green, as well as several variants of BnT.

[K801]

As you said, It's quite possible that the silver-painted Park Royal was the very first one built and put on trials.

[jhb171achill]

I'm wondering if the two coaches which are a darkler-looking green are indeed as such, or whether they are very dirty light green. My reason is the lining style is more akin to the lighter. On the other hand, railcars were initially the dark green, but with the single thin waistline as used later on the light green livery. I'd be 50/50 on the middle one, anyway.

[Mol_PMB]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I'm wondering if the two coaches which are a darkler-looking green are indeed as such, or whether they are very dirty light green. My reason is the lining style is more akin to the lighter. On the other hand, railcars were initially the dark green, but with the single thin waistline as used later on the light green livery. I'd be 50/50 on the middle one, anyway.

That's partly why I put the build dates in my list. The corridor composite was built in 1954. It has the simplified lining style of that time, and lacks a snail, which was also normal for the early 1950s. So I think it's carrying its as-built livery which would have been applied before the light green was introduced. The main line Park Royal would have been built in 1955.  

In contrast, the 8-bay open second type was built from 1958 after the light green livery was introduced, and it also has a snail typical of this period. 

 

I know you are absolutely sure of the fact that there were only two colours of green, but there were definitely more than two styles of green livery (in terms of lining, lettering and snails) and I think there is a clear logical progression through the years that most vehicles conform to (there will always be a few exceptions).

 

For me, the photographic evidence (and some of the written evidence) would suggest that there were three shades of green but there are so many complicating factors in that discussion. 

I have been collecting images of CIE trains which show multiple green shades in the same image and lighting conditions, to inform my research, and some day I'll write a thread about this. Ideally I'd like to study some more 1950s written material (CIE documents and IRRS/ IRN journals etc) but I'm struggling to find those.

[Auto-Train Original]

On 16/2/2026 at 9:40 AM, Mol_PMB said:

There were only 10 of the main line Park Royals, numbers 1419 to 1428.

This IRRS photo shows a green one, brand new in October 1955. It's definitely a main line type, with the steps and water pipes on the ends, and the frosted window:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651

This may well be the same vehicle on the same occasion:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260

It's almost impossible to tell the shade of green from these images though. I can't read the number but it may be legible on the original image.

 

This IRRS photo dated July 1960 shows a main line Park Royal in green, from the side opposite the toilet compartment (i.e. window not frosted) but you can still see that steps and water filler pipes on the end. Further evidence of this being a main line type is the view through the carriage vestibule and saloon door - this would be blocked by a seat back on a suburban coach. It has unpainted sliding window frames so this is probably its original paint job: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527645299

 

A main line Park Royal in light green livery with black ends was included in the formation of an IRRS railtour to Wicklow Murrough on 7th July 1962, appearing in quite a lot of colour photos of which this is one of the clearest and shows the end pipework and frosted windows:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256744741

This coach has green sliding window frames (which were originally unpainted) so it is likely that it has been repainted in light green. It appears that the windows opposite the toilets were altered to frosted at some stage.

 

A main line Park Royal in light green livery was also used for another railtour to Ardnacrusha on 1st September 1962, again appearing in lots of IRRS photos along with these by Ernie. As can be seen here, there were two main line Park Royals in this rake - the other in BnT livery. Note the frosted windows and pipes to the toilet tanks:

That's all I've got so far for main line Park Royals in green, but I'm less than half-way through my image trawl. There may be more to find.

Fantastic photos! When was this line last used?

 

[Mol_PMB]

On 18/2/2026 at 11:54 AM, Auto-Train Original said:

Fantastic photos! When was this line last used?

 

Thanks to Ernie for the photos!

Good question and I haven't yet found a definite answer. By 1967 the points at the junction were disconnected, but the junction seems to have been reinstated in the 1970s and a short portion of the branch used as a freight siding for a while.