Round ended vans - running numbers?

[David Holman]

Here's one to test the historians. Am currently finishing off a couple of those low, rounded end vans. Obviously somewhat ancient, they still seem to crop up in photos, even in the 1950s - possibly rebuilds of the 'semi-covered' versions of even earlier. Cattle vans also seem to follow this pattern too. Anyway, though the Sligo had several [and running numbers are clear in photos], I can't find pics of GNRI/CIE of this type. As I'd prefer to model the latter [probably got enough Sligo wagons for now], does anyone know of any running numbers, and indeed, where the GN [or CIE] logos would have gone, please?

Hopefully the picture below clarifies the wagons I mean. Mine are resin cast sides, which I did from my own masters. Very easy to do and worthwhile even for just 2 wagons. May eventually do more if I can get the numbers! There are 3 GN fitted vans behind, done in the same way. Will post more pics once they are weathered.

[Glenderg]

Bernard shares in time of civil of war has a couple of photos from around the early twenties showing those wagons, one having the number 1525, and another showing MGW GUINNESS 1888 wagon of the same style, albeit with additional central strapping.

 

Fermanaghs Railways shows one with CN stamping either side of the door, and 492 on the lower right side. Another showing 323, 1215, 4091 showing on the rear central panel centrally. Hope that helps.

 

Richie.

[Horsetan]

Bernard shares in time of civil of war ....

 

Come again?

[Glenderg]

http://www.amazon.com/In-Time-Civil-War-Conflict/dp/1905172117

[Horsetan]

http://www.amazon.com/In-Time-Civil-War-Conflict/dp/1905172117

 

Ah....now it makes sense. For a moment there I thought the predictive text had got the better of ye....

[Glenderg]

Ah....now it makes sense. For a moment there I thought the predictive text had got the better of ye....

 

Apologies about any confusion caused. I can see why it seems like gobbledeegook now...

[David Holman]

Certainly does! I've got that book. Will check it out.

Many thanks.

[Mayner]

"Irish Railways in Colour" from steam to diesel 1955-67 (Midland Publishing Tom Ferris 1992) contains some colour photos of SLNCR operations. There is a photo of a round roofed van 84 in the yard at Manorhamilton with Lough Erne waiting with an Enniskillen-Sligo goods.

 

The framing of the round roofed wagons appears similar to the MGWR "Guinness" wagons built in the 1890s, the latter were longer than the convertibles a 15'2" over headstocks, had solid roofs and ventilators. Numbed 377, 39, 516, 580, 1587, 1661, 1730, 1807, 1837 1888. Midland wagons received "m' suffix to their number in GSR & CIE days.

 

They had letters "Guinness" in 1'3" high letters across the door and on panels fitted out from the framing. The Midland started building standard Irish Railway Clearing House style wagons similar to the GNR from 1915 onwards.

 

Soft roofed Midland and GSWR convertible wagons remained in widespread use on the GSR & CIE into the 1950s with a few surviving into the black & tan era of the 1960s. There is a J I C Boyd photo of convertible 2592m built 1895 at Cobh Junction in 1962!

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

Here are a few... A hard topped Guinness van of MGWR origin photographed at Achill about 1895: No. 1868 or 1888, can't make it out.

 

At Achill in the mid 1930s:

 

A van with corrugated roof still bearing DSER lettering - 523.

 

Soft top GSWR low roofed wagon - 291.

 

Higher hard roofed short wheelbase GSWR van - 1577.

[David Holman]

Many thanks John & John - could well be old Guinness vans I am looking at. The Alpha kit is 15' over headstocks, so the resin castings I've made are close enough for either by the sound of it. The Sprinks album has pics of round roofed vans too.

Richie - am afraid the vans you note in Fermanagh's railways are all the standard GNR type, apart from 84 on p 167, which is a SLNCR semi. On p92 there is an end shot of a rounded roof type, which may well be one of the Guinness vans John has mentioned; number looks to be in the 1xxx range. No side pics in any of my books though.

Will wait and see if anything else comes out, but could go back to making them Sligo semis - a bit of masking tape on the roof should do the trick. New Years' resolution is to join the IRRS!

 

Have probably said this before, but modellers of Irish Railways badly need a wagon reference book of the sort English railways seem to have for each post & pre-group company. Are there the resources out there for someone to produce/collate enough pictures, drawings etc?

[jhb171achill]

David, I know of some resources. I suspect a large amount of material was discarded during the great "pogrom" of old papers in Inchicore in the early sixties, when literally lorry loads of old papers and plans were burned.

 

There is some material here and there, which in an ideal world all ought to be collated and properly sorted and listed. But the amount of gaps would, I strongly suspect, make any resulting book look horribly incomplete.

[Lough Erne]

David, there is a photo of a suitable van on page 174 of the Oakwood Press E M Patterson GNR I book which shows a 'rounded end' van at Foyle Road numbered 1799 in 1931.It is a very clear photo showing all required detail. Hope this is of help.