Brown Vans

[Kirley]

I'm looking for information on "Brown Van".

These were built after the 2nd WW partly by the NCC and partly by H & W Shipbuilders. They were a very common site not only on Stream but also Railcars passenger services to carry mail and luggage.

 

This picture courtesy of Bacc2 shows them in operation in 1967 at Antrim.

 

 

I would like preferably plans of these wagons or if that is not possible their dimensions. They appear to have a longer wheel base than most 4 wheel wagons.

[Glenderg]

"The well known "brown vans", four wheeled with high roofs were built at intervals fro 1924 onwards and were numbered in the 1800 series. *snip* their bodies were 24 ft long." - page 76 of des coackhams "irish broad gauge carriages"

 

It looks like an 18' wheelbase and they look really wide probably 9', but will check that later.

[Dunluce Castle]

The brown vans have a wheelbase of 14ft and their length over buffers are 27' 8" the total height from top of railhead to the top of the roof was 12' 4".

 

Hope this helps can't wait to see your models of them and what a great pic that is above.

 

Edit: if you want to see one in the flesh, downpatrick have a couple including 2 with the outside W irons.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Dunluce Castle

[Glenderg]

Nice work Nelson - I've added the dimensions to this photo. Could the wheelbase be a bit wider - 14'6"?

 

[Dunluce Castle]

Interesting picture Glenderg, are those ventilation windows on either side of the van? My plans say a 14' wheelbase but they could be wrong?

[jhb171achill]

I was unaware that any had vents.

[Dhu Varren]

Here is a link to the same subject on rmweb

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92078-brown-vans/

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by Dhu Varren

[Kirley]

Thanks Dhu Varren. Interesting to see one version has a 14' wheelbase while the other is 15' Now to find a suitable RTR chassis.

[Glenderg]

Kieran,

 

I have an airfix (114926) 20 ton br toad brake van here that is 24' long, which would make an ideal donor for the body once plated over with styrene. Wheelbase is unfortunately 16' and there is a long step running through. If you were going for the outside angle irons etc. from dartcastings or whomever, you could lob off the axelboxes/leafsprings and add your own?

 

A reference sheet of wheelbases and wagon lengths for BR stock would be mighty useful.......

[Dunluce Castle]

Finding a suitable wagon is quite hard,

I was thinking about the LNER 21ton hopper wagons (Dapol do separate chassis for these) while the length is perfect the wheelbase is 12ft so that's Glenderg with 16ft and me with 12ft hahaha, must keep looking.

[Dunluce Castle]

Isn't it just typical, once you get a correct wheelbase length 14ft (BR dogfish hopper wagon) the overall length is shorter only 22ft, but then again I guess you can always add to the length to make it correct?

[Kirley]

 

A reference sheet of wheelbases and wagon lengths for BR stock would be mighty useful.......

 

Thanks Guys, I'm sure there must be a list of W/b's and lengths for BR wagons somewhere but I have not found it yet.

 

The Toad and Hopper are both possibilities.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Kirley

[Dhu Varren]

Here are a couple of pictures of Brown vans (well one is a green van), showing the differences in underframes.

 

The chassis on the Hornby Horse Box, and fitted to various other wagons, is exactly 14ft wheelbase, however the chassis is too short. Since the chassis is readily available on the secondhand market, it would be easy enough to extend the length using a second chassis. Unfortunately, the brake gear and W irons are really only appropriate for the 15ft wheelbase chassis.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Dhu Varren

[leslie10646]

Guys

 

When I'm at Cultra on Saturday, I'll put out a list of "What next" projects for my next kit. If you want brown vans, then you know what to vote for? Come and see me at Bleach Green!

 

By the way, an interesting photo in the latest IRRS Journal showing a brown van being shunted at Great Victoria Street in 1969 by no less than Diesel No.28! Proof that they did find their way onto the GN!

 

Leslie

 

PS Amazed to see that the UTA deemed it to be only a ten ton van - it looks big enough to be twelve or more tons load?

[Dhu Varren]

PS Amazed to see that the UTA deemed it to be only a ten ton van - it looks big enough to be twelve or more tons load?

 

Probably to do with the requirement to be able to run at passenger train speeds, and not having freight type suspension.

[Dhu Varren]

Been looking for suitable chassis for brown vans. I have discovered that the chassis fitted to the old Hornby Dublo LWB 'Brown Van', the open wagon, and the horse box, is a suitable candidate with a cut & shut. The chassis is also fitted to a couple of Wrenn wagons.

With a 17mm chunk cut out of the middle to shorten it, and then spliced, the resulting chassis is a scale 24 feet, with a wheelbase of 15 feet. All that is needed then is to fit brake levers and a bit of brake rigging. With correct size 14mm coaching stock wheels fitted, it certainly looks the part.

Another, better but harder to get hold of chassis, is the Hornby Dublo or Wrenn SR Utility Van chassis. This chassis is easier to work with as it is plastic, but the conversion is the same. A larger chunk has to be taken out, as the chassis is longer, but the end result is the same as the diecast one, 24ft length and 15ft wheelbase.

Below is a picture of a brown van using the plastic chassis. Still requires the brake detail fitting.

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Dhu Varren

[Kirley]

A nicely finished wagon. I used Parkside Dundas Plate Wagon chassis (PC16) which has wheelbase of 15' to build my rake of 7 Vans.

[leslie10646]

Well done with the van - looks the part and as Kieran says, nice details.

 

Leslie