I was asked recently about this; some confusion occasionally reigns!
"Snails" will variously be seen on both preserved items of locos and rolling stock, and models, which, unfortunately, aren't the correct colours. For many, of course, it doesn't matter, but in the interests of historical accuracy for those who seek to recreate such things, here goes:
Steam Locomotives
Always EDN*, never pale yellow; despite the fact that loco numerals in CIE days WERE in pale yellow. Neither snails nor numerals were ever white, unless one includes a temporarily chalked number in 1959 on the buffer beam of a Cavan & Leitrim loco! EDN+ "snails" were always lined in gold, as on carriages pre-1955, and on buses well into the 60's. If anyone wants an accurate representation of what was actually therefore the ONLY variety ever to grace a steam loco tender, the ones on 461 currently, and that on display in the "Headhunters" Railway Museum in Enniskillen, are correct (the latter being original).
Thus a grey loco should have an unlined pale yellow cab numeral, and a lined EDN "snail".
When locos were green, an gold lined EDN snail was also the way to go, without exception. In this livery, painted numerals were lined EDN also, not the normal pale yellow as on grey locos.
On the few locos which received black livery late on (really only about 1958 onwards, and even then probably no more than a dozen or so all over the country), snails were again lined EDN, with cabside numerals light yellow - in other words, the same markings as a grey loco.
When 461 was first outshopped at Whitehead about 1990, it was painted black by the RPSI. It carried a yellow "snail" for a while on the tender, though this was soon painted out. The black livery was inaccurate; simply the preference of the volunteers who then worked on her. The yellow snail was entirely inaccurate for this, or any other loco. For the record, the painting over of this was again, nothing more than local preference of the people who worked on her at that time - no other significance. Just as the owner of a layout is completely at liberty to paint a model of 800 pink, a preservationist who has put long hours into restoring something is the man with the paintbrush! As long as an inaccurate livery doesn't go into the history books as something the vehicle actually carried (like the GNR goods van "Ivan"'s zebra stripes of black ironwork at Whitehead) then, that's fine - if accuracy is wanted, it can always be repainted. This columnist seeks to record accuracy, where available information can definitively confirm this - not under any circumstances to criticise anyone's modelling or preservation work. Incidentally, the CIE "H" van and the NCC goods brake van at Downpatrick, the explosives van in Cultra, and in fact, every preserved item of goods stock I can think of - are very inaccurately painted!
The single "Woolwich" which was repainted for the "Rosslare Express" had, of course, the standard EDN lined snail, but I am not sure whether the cabside numeral on it was light yellow - there's a possibility that, as a one-off, it might have been lined EDN, as on a green loco, as well. This loco carried red lining - again, a one-off - as if it had been a GSWR loco. I've never been able to establish that beyond doubt.
Carriages
In the pre-1955 darker (Brunswick Green) livery, numerals, snails and lining were EDN, lined in gold in all cases. After 1950, railcars had the dark green first, and eventually the lighter green, in each case lined like 3223 at Downpatrick; i.e. a single mid-body (and thinner) line, snail and numerals; all three being now UNlined in gold. After the green got lighter in 1955, the same EDN was used for lining, numerals and snails.
Post 1955, those carriages that were newly outshopped unpainted (i.e. the short-lived silver "livery" - which due to entire lack of paint wasn't actually a "livery" at all!), soon attained the lighter green; by 1957 new builds were beginning to have the lighter green. This, today, is accurately reproduced on the RPSI Dublin "Heritage" set, and on the DCDR, on C231, the TPO, and G611. Snails, lining and numerals on this lighter green were always, without exception, unlined EDN.
Goods Stock
Snails were always white, unlined, and latterly (probably post 1955/6?) applied to goods vehicles by stencil. White was never used on carriages or locos.
I hope this clarifies things.
A few other items relating to 1950s CIE liveries, while we're here - these are based on observations over the years of preservation and modelling examples:
- when modelling goods vans, roofs always body colour, not black; when modelling vans painted post-1969 bauxite brown, always a brown roof, not grey.
- when modelling goods stock, chassis almost never black; always, again, body colour, with a very few exceptions. NCC / UTA "Brown Vans" are one such; for them, always black chassis. GNR passenger four-wheel parcel vans were also painted like passenger vehicles, with brown body sides, black chassis and light grey roofs.
- CIE coaches tended to always have black roofs, though I've seen at least one photo which shows a coach which could be either badly faded black, but possibly a dark grey. UTA coaches had roofs of a somewhat lighter grey, not unlike that on goods wagons.
- In the darker and lighter CIE green liveries, coach ends were black.
- When CIE / GSR locos were plain grey, this not only extended to wheels, all motion, cab roof, smokebox and even chimney, but also to the background on the numberplate. The numerals and rims were picked out in very pale yellow, cream, or smoothed to bare metal as on Whitehead's 186. They have been recorded somewhere in recent years as being red - this is incorrect. They had red backgrounds in earlier GSWR days, but not after the plain grey livery appeared about 1915.
That'll do for tonight!
*EDN = "Eau-de-nil"; a long-winded and faintly preposterous name for a very pale green! (Eau-de-nil..... "water of nothing".... Eh??? )
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Question
jhb171achill
I was asked recently about this; some confusion occasionally reigns!
"Snails" will variously be seen on both preserved items of locos and rolling stock, and models, which, unfortunately, aren't the correct colours. For many, of course, it doesn't matter, but in the interests of historical accuracy for those who seek to recreate such things, here goes:
Steam Locomotives
Always EDN*, never pale yellow; despite the fact that loco numerals in CIE days WERE in pale yellow. Neither snails nor numerals were ever white, unless one includes a temporarily chalked number in 1959 on the buffer beam of a Cavan & Leitrim loco! EDN+ "snails" were always lined in gold, as on carriages pre-1955, and on buses well into the 60's. If anyone wants an accurate representation of what was actually therefore the ONLY variety ever to grace a steam loco tender, the ones on 461 currently, and that on display in the "Headhunters" Railway Museum in Enniskillen, are correct (the latter being original).
Thus a grey loco should have an unlined pale yellow cab numeral, and a lined EDN "snail".
When locos were green, an gold lined EDN snail was also the way to go, without exception. In this livery, painted numerals were lined EDN also, not the normal pale yellow as on grey locos.
On the few locos which received black livery late on (really only about 1958 onwards, and even then probably no more than a dozen or so all over the country), snails were again lined EDN, with cabside numerals light yellow - in other words, the same markings as a grey loco.
When 461 was first outshopped at Whitehead about 1990, it was painted black by the RPSI. It carried a yellow "snail" for a while on the tender, though this was soon painted out. The black livery was inaccurate; simply the preference of the volunteers who then worked on her. The yellow snail was entirely inaccurate for this, or any other loco. For the record, the painting over of this was again, nothing more than local preference of the people who worked on her at that time - no other significance. Just as the owner of a layout is completely at liberty to paint a model of 800 pink, a preservationist who has put long hours into restoring something is the man with the paintbrush! As long as an inaccurate livery doesn't go into the history books as something the vehicle actually carried (like the GNR goods van "Ivan"'s zebra stripes of black ironwork at Whitehead) then, that's fine - if accuracy is wanted, it can always be repainted. This columnist seeks to record accuracy, where available information can definitively confirm this - not under any circumstances to criticise anyone's modelling or preservation work. Incidentally, the CIE "H" van and the NCC goods brake van at Downpatrick, the explosives van in Cultra, and in fact, every preserved item of goods stock I can think of - are very inaccurately painted!
The single "Woolwich" which was repainted for the "Rosslare Express" had, of course, the standard EDN lined snail, but I am not sure whether the cabside numeral on it was light yellow - there's a possibility that, as a one-off, it might have been lined EDN, as on a green loco, as well. This loco carried red lining - again, a one-off - as if it had been a GSWR loco. I've never been able to establish that beyond doubt.
Carriages
In the pre-1955 darker (Brunswick Green) livery, numerals, snails and lining were EDN, lined in gold in all cases. After 1950, railcars had the dark green first, and eventually the lighter green, in each case lined like 3223 at Downpatrick; i.e. a single mid-body (and thinner) line, snail and numerals; all three being now UNlined in gold. After the green got lighter in 1955, the same EDN was used for lining, numerals and snails.
Post 1955, those carriages that were newly outshopped unpainted (i.e. the short-lived silver "livery" - which due to entire lack of paint wasn't actually a "livery" at all!), soon attained the lighter green; by 1957 new builds were beginning to have the lighter green. This, today, is accurately reproduced on the RPSI Dublin "Heritage" set, and on the DCDR, on C231, the TPO, and G611. Snails, lining and numerals on this lighter green were always, without exception, unlined EDN.
Goods Stock
Snails were always white, unlined, and latterly (probably post 1955/6?) applied to goods vehicles by stencil. White was never used on carriages or locos.
I hope this clarifies things.
A few other items relating to 1950s CIE liveries, while we're here - these are based on observations over the years of preservation and modelling examples:
- when modelling goods vans, roofs always body colour, not black; when modelling vans painted post-1969 bauxite brown, always a brown roof, not grey.
- when modelling goods stock, chassis almost never black; always, again, body colour, with a very few exceptions. NCC / UTA "Brown Vans" are one such; for them, always black chassis. GNR passenger four-wheel parcel vans were also painted like passenger vehicles, with brown body sides, black chassis and light grey roofs.
- CIE coaches tended to always have black roofs, though I've seen at least one photo which shows a coach which could be either badly faded black, but possibly a dark grey. UTA coaches had roofs of a somewhat lighter grey, not unlike that on goods wagons.
- In the darker and lighter CIE green liveries, coach ends were black.
- When CIE / GSR locos were plain grey, this not only extended to wheels, all motion, cab roof, smokebox and even chimney, but also to the background on the numberplate. The numerals and rims were picked out in very pale yellow, cream, or smoothed to bare metal as on Whitehead's 186. They have been recorded somewhere in recent years as being red - this is incorrect. They had red backgrounds in earlier GSWR days, but not after the plain grey livery appeared about 1915.
That'll do for tonight!
*EDN = "Eau-de-nil"; a long-winded and faintly preposterous name for a very pale green! (Eau-de-nil..... "water of nothing".... Eh??? )
Edited by jhb171achill6 answers to this question
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