no sound after I double head 121

[controller]

I have double headed two MM 121. They work fine, except one of the locos runs slower than the other. And worse still, there is no sound , start-up, horn, nothing. I am using a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance. Do I need to access CVs to get these things to work, and if so, how do I go about this?. What CVs work what function?. One thing that does work is the head and marker lights. I doubled headed them using Advanced Consisting. When I separate them and give each a different address they work fine.

Thanks,

Controller.

[Past-Avenue]

Hi try working the functions on the locos own address rather than the cons address when they are dubble headed 

Enda

[Alan564017]

Controller, I have a similar problem (posted under 'Double Header'), i dont have sound decoders and lights are ok (ish). My issue is the different speeds, some of the replies I got suggested running the loco's in which im currently doing (however xmas will get in the way). I have a Hornby Elite controller and im not sure how to, or if I can, access and manipulate CV's. 

[controller]

Hi Alan/Enda, Enda is the cons address the one you enter when you set up the double header?. Alan, as far as I know you can't access CVs on the Hornby Elite, I may be wrong. I am sure someone will put us right. I believe we need some understanding member on the forum to give us simple step by step instructions on how to Double Header. Like it's our first day at model railway school

Controller

[Noel]

15 hours ago, Past-Avenue said:

Hi try working the functions on the locos own address rather than the cons address when they are dubble headed 

Enda

Some CV's used to control consisting. Some DCC systems have user friendly consist setup menus that handle the primary advanced consist CVs. Suggest Check the value of CV21 in each loco once a consist has been created to see if FN1 (sound) has been masked off. CV21 determines which functions each decoder should respond to. I'm not familiar with Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance effect on CV19 and/or CV21. It looks like the decoders many be blocked from responding to Function 1

Advanced Consisting CVs

CV 21 & 22 = 0 in all locos

CV21:bits 0-7 controls F1-F8 passthrough or not

CV22(lights)+F9-F12 (bit 0=fwd, 1=rev, 2-5 for F9-F12)

CV23=accelaration adjust (+127 to -127) (CV50 bit to activate CV23+24 on some systems)
CV24=decelaration adjust
C19>0 means in a consist CV19=0 not in a consist

CV19:bits 0-6 = consist address
CV19:bit 7=direction (ie in case one of the locos is going in the wrong direction)

FYI clip below 11m15s in, demo of sound working in both my 121s with LokSound decoders setup with an advanced consist on NCE. I did not have to set or adjust any CVs, the consist menu look after all of that and hid the complexities.

PS: Below clip Creating and advanced consist on NCE sound working on both decoders

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Noel

[controller]

Thanks Noel, Have things to do at the moment, but will give that a try this evening.

Controller

[controller]

Hi Noel, Thanks for your reply. Would you be able to explain a bit more how do I check the value of CV 21 or CV19 to see if FN1 has been masked off. I think if I can do that, I might be able to fix the problem. I am not familiar with CVs at all.

Controller.

[irishthump]

There are list of CV's that control what functions will operate under the consist address. These may well be set incorrectly. Now I recommend babysteps when trying to reprogramme a Loksound decoder. They are quite complex and anything more than very basic programming should be done with either a Lokprogrammer or software like JMRI. 

For a start try setting CV21 to a value 201. This should allow the engine sound to operate in a consist. Let us know how you get on with that before trying anything more.

[irishthump]

57 minutes ago, controller said:

Hi Noel, Thanks for your reply. Would you be able to explain a bit more how do I check the value of CV 21 or CV19 to see if FN1 has been masked off. I think if I can do that, I might be able to fix the problem. I am not familiar with CVs at all.

Controller.

Hornby themselves have a series of videos on programming with the elite. Give them a watch first if you're unsure.

(115) Hornby | Elite User Guides - YouTube

[controller]

Irishthump, Thank you, I entered value 201 to CV21 like you suggested and I now have sound of the engines starting up. I now need to get the horns working . If you can help me with that, I would be very grateful. Thanks again. I am working with the Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance. The head and marker lights are working as they should.

Controller

[Noel]

Try 207 in CV 21 to get Functions 0, 1, 2 and 3 passing through to the decoder. In a consist you can set CV21 differently in each loco if you like (eg horn sound responds only on lead loco F2). CV21 entered in decimal in binary form controls function pass through (ie each bit represents the function number it will pass through to decoder).

[controller]

Thank you gentlemen. I now have all sound up and running. I knew I could depend on the experts. If you could indulge me , I have one more small problem. One loco run faster than the other, and is inclined to drag the slower one. There is not much of a difference, but over time I am concerned it may damage the motor. Thanks again.

Controller.

[irishthump]

5 minutes ago, controller said:

Thank you gentlemen. I now have all sound up and running. I knew I could depend on the experts. If you could indulge me , I have one more small problem. One loco run faster than the other, and is inclined to drag the slower one. There is not much of a difference, but over time I am concerned it may damage the motor. Thanks again.

Controller.

Glad you got the sound sorted! One small thing, I'd have one loco set up so that the horn does'nt work while in consist. In real life the horn would only sound in one loco while double heading.

As regards the different speed, give the locos some time ro run-in before considering doing any adjustments. The gear train may just need to loosen up a little.

The docders also have an auto-tune feature. Place the loco on a piece of straight track. Set CV54 to 0 then press F1. The loco will take off like a hare for a few seconds then it will stop and the engine sound will start up. This calibrates the decoder to the motor. Dp it with both locos and see how they run together, you can go through process mulitple times if necessary.

Let us know how you get on.

[controller]

Hi Irishthump, I did as you suggested, CV54 to 0 and F1. I did it three times, but B131 is still pulling B125. I have the two locos run in, 30mins each direction. I will keep running them as stand alone and maybe they may loosen up a bit more. When I run them as MU there is a grinding noise from B131. I will do as you suggested a few more times and see will that help. Thanks again.

Controller.

[Noel]

51 minutes ago, controller said:

Hi Irishthump, I did as you suggested, CV54 to 0 and F1. I did it three times, but B131 is still pulling B125. I have the two locos run in, 30mins each direction. I will keep running them as stand alone and maybe they may loosen up a bit more. When I run them as MU there is a grinding noise from B131. I will do as you suggested a few more times and see will that help. Thanks again.

Controller.

As Graham has suggested running in both locos should eventually get them fairly close (assuming no lube is needed in such new models), before adjusting CVs as per Grahams post a few days ago on speed matching tips. If you do need to get to that stage perhaps adjust CV5 downwards a little on the faster of the two locos until its top speed matches the top speed of the slower loco. I used to use a timing gate to calculate the scale speed of locos, but running them about 3ft apart one behind the other should enable you to match speed by adjusting CV such as CV5 and optionally CV6 by 'programming on the main' which saves you lifting loco off the layout onto a test track for programming. 

[irishthump]

56 minutes ago, controller said:

Hi Irishthump, I did as you suggested, CV54 to 0 and F1. I did it three times, but B131 is still pulling B125. I have the two locos run in, 30mins each direction. I will keep running them as stand alone and maybe they may loosen up a bit more. When I run them as MU there is a grinding noise from B131. I will do as you suggested a few more times and see will that help. Thanks again.

Controller.

Yeah 131 is obviously pulling against 125. 

I expect it may take a while both locos to really bed in. 30 mins in each direction really isn't enough to run a loco in anyway in my opinion, it takes a few hours of continous running. 

As Noel mentioned you could try adjusting CV's 5 and 6, but I'd give the locos a bit more running before trying that as you could find yourself back at square one if they end up in settling it and you've changed CV's!

[irishthump]

Btw here's the thread where speed matching 2 or more locos was discussed...

121 Double Header - Questions & Answers - Irish Railway Modeller

[controller]

Thanks Lads, I think I will, as you advise, run the locos a lot more. If I got to the stage where I want to adjust CV5 or CV6 how do I find the speed settings in CV5 or 6?. I will only do this as a last resort. I am a little bit more confident in changing CVs after all your help. 

Controller

[Alan564017]

controller, like yourself, im leaving adjusting CV's as a last resort. I have run my loco's for roughly about six hours (not continuously!!). One still runs faster than the other.

irishthump, many thanks for the link for the Elite programming. Do you know is it possible to read the various CV first to see what settings are, so if they are different on each loco/decoder, one could be adjusted to match the other.